Found the "burning" smell source (pic)

[ZX-14]

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m494/Idragproriders/2013-02-01_18-32-38_946_zps8d692d5f.jpg


do you guys think caused it? Looks like I have to replace the box??

[Cory W]

Welcome to a common issue.

Yes, replace the box. If you still have a fuse box cover, DON'T put it back on.

Once that has been done, it is advisable to just pull and replace the fuses once a year. (You use the same fuse you just pulled, if intact) The battery outgassing directly under the fuses and relays causes oxidation, bad connections, heat buildup, and in some cases, fire. Pulling and replacing the fuse cleans it off a little and can provide a cleaner, better connection again.

EDIT: Since you mentioned a burning smell, you may want to do this sooner rather than later! A very good how-to can be found here (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1070-How-to-Replace-fuse-block&highlight=fuse+replace).

[ZX-14]

Alright thanks- definitely alot of work..... my box was smoking

[jawn101]

It's a tough job for sure. That was the first how-to I wrote so be sure you check out the comments after it as other members had valuable info in their replies. It's a very satisfying job though. Clean all your grounds while you're at it, especially the one up in the front left corner that supplies the fuel pump. It is time, money and effort VERY well spent!

[David T]

Many do not spend the time and money replacing the whole fuseblock. Instead they just take the wires for #7 and use an inline fuse holder. Not as pretty but it works. The problem is not the fuse. The fuel pump goes bad and overloads the circuit causing the fuse, fuseblock, and connectors to melt. Just fixing the fuse will not fix the problem, you probably need a new fuel pump.
David Teitelbaum

[ZX-14]

Been driving with a brand new pump for a few months now. It had a hot start issue until just recently, so I used to crank the hell out of it.

I noticed the electrical smell since the first time I really started driving the car. That was a few months ago.

[ZX-14]

It sounds crazy, but I seem to recall the smell mainly with the lights on. Even when my lights stopped working and i replaced the switch- I knew something was up when the smell was still there after switch replacement. My high beems don't work now either.

[jawn101]

It sounds crazy, but I seem to recall the smell mainly with the lights on. Even when my lights stopped working and i replaced the switch- I knew something was up when the smell was still there after switch replacement. My high beems don't work now either.

Not crazy at all. Fuses 7, 14 and 15 are obviously melted in your block. That's the fuel pump, low beams and high beams.

[ZX-14]

Do you guys think that cranking on it, cycling the fuel pump on and off to get it to start so many times could have contributed?

[jawn101]

Do you guys think that cranking on it, cycling the fuel pump on and off to get it to start so many times could have contributed?

I don't know if that would have impacted fuses 14 and 15. It could have contributed to the over-draw on fuse 7 though, but it's really hard (for me) to speculate.

[sdg3205]

Do you guys think that cranking on it, cycling the fuel pump on and off to get it to start so many times could have contributed?

It's very hard on your starter motor at the very least.

[DeLorean03]

I am not saying "You have to do this." but you really might want to follow what I did in this thread:

No More Burned Fuse #7 (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5911-Dedicated-fuel-pump-circuit)

All I did was remove the two wires that go from the RPM relay to the fuel pump. From there, I installed 12 gauge wires. One is a wire going straight from the battery to the fuel pump with an in-line 20A fuse. The other is a black ground wire going from the radiator mounting bracket that attaches to the frame on the driver's side and goes up to the fuel pump. You are, in essence, adding what I cordially call "Fuse 18A" (18 fuses in the fusebox, this one gets an "A" in its name) - a separate fuse dedicated entirely to the operation of the fuel pump, and you are increasing the gauge of the wiring from 16 to 12, allowing MUCH better flow of current and way less heat buildup.

Trust me, it's worth it.

Full details and pictures are available by request if not already in the aforementioned thread.

Remember how we always say "It's not the fan control unit, it's the fans that cause so much trouble in the cooling system..." ? This is the same thing here. It is not the fuse (fuse #7) that is the issue; it is the fact that this wiring is inferior and there are far too many components on fuse #7. Changing a fuse once a year is a bandaid. Increasing the gauge of the wiring for the fuel pump and giving the fuel pump its own dedicated fuse is a permanent solution.

(And my car has no inertia switch plugged in - never has - so I accept that risk. If you follow the instructions in my link, you do so at your own risk, and I am not responsible for any consequences or after-effects.) Besides, I am confident that you could always include the inertia switch with your new wiring if you so choose.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Have you installed higher power headlights? This was a problem with the guys over the pond about 5 years ago. They had to install higher power headlights and that put the fuse near max rating. Their fix was to up to the next current fuse.

[ZX-14]

I got the car with the high powered primary head lights. The entire housing, bulb and plug is different from the factory lights.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I got the car with the high powered primary head lights. The entire housing, bulb and plug is different from the factory lights.

You can measure the current if you have a meter capable of 20 amps but my guess is your really close to 20 amps and therefor....if it were me, I would run 25 amp fuses. That is when you put in a new fuse box.

[Jonathan]

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m494/Idragproriders/2013-02-01_18-32-38_946_zps8d692d5f.jpg


do you guys think caused it? Looks like I have to replace the box??

Any particular reason why you went with a 10 Amp fuse in #5 instead of the 20 Amp fuse recommended in the drawings?

It's the only one I saw not the proper size. Not sure it really would have had any impact on the melting, but just an observation.

[ZX-14]

Pulled all the melted fuses- the headlights are somehow getting those fuses hott. As far as the fuel pump fuse, I replaced it and drove it quite a bit today, reached over and touched it periodically and never even got warm.

So I have decided to bypass the box with the headlights only. I am using an inline glass fuse x2, the box shouldn't get hot- but if it does somehow in the future, I will replace it with a better box , as there are a few out there.

Until then, i will be keeping an eye on the fuel pump fuse, but so far, it's not the culprit.

Hot start problem is fixed, car is really coming along and drives/runs perfect, just slow.

[jawn101]

Pulled all the melted fuses- the headlights are somehow getting those fuses hott. As far as the fuel pump fuse, I replaced it and drove it quite a bit today, reached over and touched it periodically and never even got warm.

So I have decided to bypass the box with the headlights only. I am using an inline glass fuse x2, the box shouldn't get hot- but if it does somehow in the future, I will replace it with a better box , as there are a few out there.

Until then, i will be keeping an eye on the fuel pump fuse, but so far, it's not the culprit.

Hot start problem is fixed, car is really coming along and drives/runs perfect, just slow.

This doesn't address the issues though... If there is heat being generated from wiring issues you're just going to move it. The next thing that burns or melts won't be as easy to fix. You should really find and address the source of the issues before they multiply and/or do some real damage.

[ZX-14]

The only issue is coming from the lights. Changing the box will not solve that issue alone. There are aftermarket H2 powered lights on the car. The ground and wires are correct. The box melted at those fuses and at the pump fuse, which is no longer heating up.

Replacing everything at random won't reveal a problem if it all melts again.

What would you suggest I do extra?

[jawn101]

Yeah, I'm not saying changing the box will fix the issue - but you should track down whatever it is, wherever it exists. Maybe upgrade the wiring to the headlamp circuit if it's known that the HID upgrade draws too much power. I hadn't heard that before but I've never seen this upgrade installed before either. Or perhaps restore the headlamps to their stock config. And like David T said, the melted fuse #7 indicates something more dramatic may be going on with the fuel pump.

I don't have all the info on your car or config so my advice is pretty general....

[ZX-14]

These aren't HID's, they are a bulb (h1-h2) type. Clear lense, I have seen them on DMCH website. However, by reading whats on the lense, a 20 amp fuse should handle them.

The #7 fuse had an issue, probably melted when the other fuel pump was in the car.

The only time I ever smelled electrical burning was when my lights were on. I never smelled it during the day, which clues me into the headlights being the issue now. No doubt, #7 did melt, but it was probably before this fuel pump.

[DMC5180]

Something to note. Those Large numbered fuses are Original 32 yr old fuses. It appears about half of the fuse box has had Newer fuses installed (small numbers)

All the 10's are Newer. The 20's are OLD (except #10). The 30 is OLD

[Bitsyncmaster]

From what I remember the OEM bulbs were 35 watts. The silver stars are higher (think 50 watts) which is what I use and still have the 20 amp fuses. If you go with real high power bulbs that's when the 20 amp fuse will get hot. If you measure the current with the engine running on each headlight fuse you can know if your going to have the problem again.

[Jonathan]

Something to note. Those Large numbered fuses are Original 32 yr old fuses. It appears about half of the fuse box has had Newer fuses installed (small numbers)

All the 10's are Newer. The 20's are OLD (except #10). The 30 is OLD

Hi Dennis (and others),

I was curious if this 'large numbers' and 'small numbers' bit about being old or new was 100% accurate? The reason I ask is because I have a similar mix of fuse font sizes and I replaced all my fuses with ones that were part of the upgrade kit. This would have been around October 2008 when I put all new ones in. One of the only ones I can recall since then needing to be replaced was the interior lights one when I shorted out the wires accidentally replacing a door light receptacle.

You can see here in a picture I took just a few days ago where my fuse fonts are a mix of big and small.

What do you think?

16387

[m81dmc]

Too much draw (malfunctioning end component, like radiator fan say) can melt the fuse box as mentioned, but surface oxidation of the fuses and terminals adds alot of heat too.

This is why the fuses should be looked at to check for oxidation (or replaced). Removing and replacing them also scrapes off some of the surface oxidation reducing the resistance. Oxidation causes resistance and resistance causes heat which melts the fusebox. Electrical resistors get hot. I'm also not using the cover, only set it aside for the inscription info.

I'm thinking of plating my new fusebox terminals with gold (doesnt oxidize - even after centuries under the ocean). Its only a very small amount so shouldnt cost too much to do. Have to consider the other relay terminals there too though.

[DMC5180]

Hi Dennis (and others),

I was curious if this 'large numbers' and 'small numbers' bit about being old or new was 100% accurate? The reason I ask is because I have a similar mix of fuse font sizes and I replaced all my fuses with ones that were part of the upgrade kit. This would have been around October 2008 when I put all new ones in. One of the only ones I can recall since then needing to be replaced was the interior lights one when I shorted out the wires accidentally replacing a door light receptacle.

You can see here in a picture I took just a few days ago where my fuse fonts are a mix of big and small.

What do you think?

16387

When you say Upgrade kit. You mean FUSE BOX Upgrade kit. Is that correct?

Back when DMCH first started offering the kits, they were Take-offs from NOS main harnesses. It was typical for them to remove all the fuses from the LOADED FUSE BOX. Then they would bag up the fuses and ship them with the NOS Fuse box and NEW terminals. When they stopped using Take-off Fuse boxes and had them reproduced, I'm sure they still had a supply of (NOS type) 20 and 30 amp fuses, but were out of the 10 amp sizes. Those were just supplied as NEW.

I'm not saying there is any thing wrong with using the NOS fuses as long as they are clean. The most important part of the replacement kit is the NEW IMPROVED TERMINALS. The original terminals were junk. As the heat built up they would get weak and loose tension. Unfortunately, once it starts it just feeds on itself getting worse and worse until things melt.

I have a bag full of the NOS fuses that came with my NOS take-off box. I choose to use NEW smart glow fuses instead.

[Jonathan]

When you say Upgrade kit. You mean FUSE BOX Upgrade kit. Is that correct?

Sorry, I meant the upgrade kit which included all new fuses and relays and circuit breakers, but not the box itself. The intention was to swap out the old school relays with a newer, better technology. The 10 A, 20 A, 30 A fuses were also all replaced at that time. I was not under the impression that they were 30 years old. Next time I'm at Canadian Tire, I'll compare the font size on a package of new fuses and see what is currently being sold.

[MML]

Reading this thread has made me want to replace my fuse box. I have one quick question though... do you need to order a new box lid along with it, or will the old one still fit? i.e. have the dimensions of the box changed, or are they still NOS boxes?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Reading this thread has made me want to replace my fuse box. I have one quick question though... do you need to order a new box lid along with it, or will the old one still fit? i.e. have the dimensions of the box changed, or are they still NOS boxes?

I think the DMCH new fuse box is the same dimensions as the OEM box but nobody uses the box lid anymore (it traps heat).

[DMCMW Dave]

I think the DMCH new fuse box is the same dimensions as the OEM box but nobody uses the box lid anymore (it traps heat).

Yes the original cover will fit. I agree with the comment to leave the cover off.

[MML]

Thanks guys, that makes sense... I have it on at the minute.
I'll get the box ordered tonight - are there any other electrical-related things that would be wise to replace while I'm in there?

That reminds me, I have Elvis' lock mod kit, I need to get that installed as well...

[jawn101]

Thanks guys, that makes sense... I have it on at the minute.
I'll get the box ordered tonight - are there any other electrical-related things that would be wise to replace while I'm in there?

That reminds me, I have Elvis' lock mod kit, I need to get that installed as well...

How old are your relays/breakers? Those are worth freshening up if they are original too.

[Bitsyncmaster]

It's nice to have some extra wire and relay socket pins in case you find any bad connections or a short wire. But the other upgrades can be done later.

[jawn101]

It's nice to have some extra wire and relay socket pins in case you find any bad connections or a short wire. But the other upgrades can be done later.

And this guy's too modest to say it but if you've got some cash burning a hole in your fuse box, his upgrades are all worth considering... :)

[Ron]

And this guy's too modest to say it but if you've got some cash burning a hole in your fuse box, his upgrades are all worth considering... :)
+1

[MML]

How old are your relays/breakers? Those are worth freshening up if they are original too.

I think they're upgraded - here's a pic:

http://i.imgur.com/ljbvyA2.jpg

[MML]

And this guy's too modest to say it but if you've got some cash burning a hole in your fuse box, his upgrades are all worth considering... :)

Lol I'll have to check them out then!! :D

[Jonathan]

I think they're upgraded - here's a pic:

Yea, they look updated. I think I wrote earlier in this thread or another mentioning getting the "upgrade" kit. Not realizing the subtle difference between the words 'upgrade' and 'update'. Replacing the relays and fuses with new ones and not the 32 year old ones I believe is considered the 'update" kit. Versus a brand new fuse box perhaps might be considered an 'upgrade'. Or Dave's version of the RPM relay could be considered an upgrade and not an update.

I think yours are already updated. That orange marker across each relay is telling you they are not 32 years old.

Here are two pictures of my car the day I bought it:

1652516526

It was not the prettiest thing in the world at the beginning. You can see what the old relays looked like.

Here's a picture after the update kit went in:

16527

Hard to say though whether your circuit breakers are new from that picture.