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Iceguy
02-16-2013, 05:50 PM
I guess the honeymoon is over. I have had my car ( # 3095 ) about 3 weeks, and now it stops running. It will run 3 - 4 minutes then just die. Is this a fuel pump issue ?

Rich
02-16-2013, 06:04 PM
Welcome to the forum and sorry your honeymoon is already over.

First, it may or may not be a pump issue. The fuel pump normally won't shut off after 3-4 minutes if it is still seeing full voltage as it should.

We'll need more data before ruling things in or out.
- Does the car always do what you are reporting? Turn it on, it runs at some speed, then dies after 3-4 minutes? Every time? Warm/cold/driving/idle?
- Does it then restart immediately if you try?
- Was it doing anything like this for the past few weeks or is this totally new to you?
- It runs perfectly whenever it runs?

Iceguy
02-16-2013, 06:57 PM
It starts fine, will run either in park or drive for a few minutes, then dies. It wont restart right after, but after a few minutes sitting it will then start. Though it starts all over. I have not had the car that long, so I dont know any previous history. The time that I have had it, it has started and run fine up to this point.

Bitsyncmaster
02-16-2013, 07:29 PM
It starts fine, will run either in park or drive for a few minutes, then dies. It wont restart right after, but after a few minutes sitting it will then start. Though it starts all over. I have not had the car that long, so I dont know any previous history. The time that I have had it, it has started and run fine up to this point.

My guess would be a problem with the lambda system. You could verify the lambda system is at fault by just disconnecting the O2 sensor. Then if you your engine keeps running you know something is wrong in the lambda. Normally even if your mixture adjustment is way off, when the lambda kicks in (about 2 to 4 min) you engine should run better unless your idle control is messed up.

What is your idle RPM when your engine is running?

Iceguy
02-16-2013, 09:08 PM
The RPM at idle is about 10,000. If I leave it idle, after 2 - 3 minutes it starts to run rough then it shuts down.

Silverbullet
02-16-2013, 09:18 PM
ah..... 10,000 rpm is not idle....

Iceguy
02-16-2013, 09:24 PM
What should it be ?

Dangermouse
02-16-2013, 10:32 PM
Do you mean 1,000, not 10,000?

It should be 750.

Jonathan
02-16-2013, 11:38 PM
Do you mean 1,000, not 10,000?

It should be 750.

+1

Like Dermot said, 750-775-800 range or so is normal. The graduations on the gauge are not super defined, so somewhere in that ball park is fine. I am guessing you meant 1,000 RPM?

If it is 1,000 RPM when idling okay, does it spike or change just as the car dies?

Also Iceguy, you can see what some of the gauges would read typically here: (not saying my car is the bench mark by any stretch of the imagination, but it might give you an idea of what range things should be in).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPhH_NowHh8

Perhaps something in the fuel system has gotten plugged and is leading to the engine starving for fuel? That wouldn't explain this 4 minute interval phenomena though.

Iceguy
02-17-2013, 05:21 AM
Yeah - should be 1,000 RPM - chalk that to late night typing. I will double check my gauges, but I think mine are pretty much the same. I was also thinking of fuel filter clog, but it cuts off at that aprox 3 minute mark every time. When it runs - it sounds strong and runs good.

Bitsyncmaster
02-17-2013, 05:48 AM
Try unplugging the O2 sensor and see if that fixes or will change the run time.

Nicholas R
02-17-2013, 10:53 AM
Try unplugging the O2 sensor and see if that fixes or will change the run time.

I agree with Dave. It takes a few minutes for the O2 sensor to heat up and start giving the lambda system the signals to adjust the mixture.

Just unplug the sensor and see if it stays running. It won't hurt the car. Many owners run their cars without the O2 sensor plugged in all the time. I was one of them. I fought the Lambda system for a few years before I decided to go open loop.

Jonathan
02-17-2013, 12:26 PM
If there was something amiss behind the drivers seat in the ECU electrical shelf, would that be causing some of this? It'd be easy enough for the OP to at least look in there and confirm everything is visually okay and connections are tight, etc.

Iceguy
02-17-2013, 04:16 PM
OK - Stupid question - does it unplug somewhere on the motor ? From what I see it looks solid with no way to unplug it.

Bitsyncmaster
02-17-2013, 05:30 PM
OK - Stupid question - does it unplug somewhere on the motor ? From what I see it looks solid with no way to unplug it.

Where it enters the drivers side wheel well (I think). Mine has been changed so that is from memory.

Iceguy
02-17-2013, 05:59 PM
Thanks - I am loseing light, so will try again after work tomorrow.

DeLorean03
02-17-2013, 07:45 PM
OK - Stupid question - does it unplug somewhere on the motor ? From what I see it looks solid with no way to unplug it.

Go to your car - driver's side. Move the seat out of the way, lift the back carpet, and pull the wooden cover on the driver's side. Look around a bit - there will be a connector where two wires quick-connect - it will be a SINGLE wire connector. That's that place to unplug your O2 sensor.

You'll get a good idea what it'll look like in this picture from DMCH's store website:

#13 in the picture is your O2 sensor.

http://store.delorean.com/c-337-2-3-0-lambda-system-probeecucatalyst.aspx

DMCMW Dave
02-18-2013, 12:10 AM
Go to your car - driver's side. ..........

#13 in the picture is your O2 sensor.

http://store.delorean.com/c-337-2-3-0-lambda-system-probeecucatalyst.aspx

It's supposed to be outside the car. Just inside of the left rear tire. If you find the connection inside, water and dirt are probably getting in through the hole.

DeLorean03
02-18-2013, 02:12 AM
It's supposed to be outside the car. Just inside of the left rear tire. If you find the connection inside, water and dirt are probably getting in through the hole.

Thank you Dave, I will be installing a rubber grommet now as part of my "holy crap this water pump replacement just got more interesting" winter downtime ;).

Morpheus
02-18-2013, 04:50 PM
When it dies, does it stumble and shudder like it's starving for fuel, or does it just shut off?

Iceguy
02-18-2013, 05:10 PM
Thanx Guys - I unplugged what I "think" was the 02 scensor according to Delorean03's directions, and IT WORKED. I started my car, let it run - unplugged this connection and it stayed running 30 min. I drove it up & back my street - no problems. I sure hope this was the fix. Should I worry about not having this connection or think about replacing it ?

Morpheus - It would just cut off. That is why I was thinking fuel - pump, filter, etc. But I followed what was suggested earlier and it ~seems~ to have worked.

Thank You Everyone for your help ! Know owning a Delorean, this wont be the last time I need advise. I want to learn everything about my car, and you guys are a fantastic help.

Bitsyncmaster
02-18-2013, 06:11 PM
Many people run without the lambda system but if you need to pass emissions or just want the best MPG, you should fix what is broken with it. You should first test with a dwell meter if the FV is running. It should be 45 to 50 degrees or 50 to 60% if you your meter is reading duty cycle. You could also guess it works by hearing or feeling it buzzing. If that is working my guess would be the FV is hosed wrong or defective.

Can you post a photo of your hoses of the FV and where they bolt to on the FD?

The FV should still be buzzing with the O2 disconnected. Maybe your mixture is just way off.

DMCMW Dave
02-18-2013, 06:39 PM
Thank you Dave, I will be installing a rubber grommet now as part of my "holy crap this water pump replacement just got more interesting" winter downtime ;).

It shouldn't need one. The grommet is part of the connector. From inside the car just push it back in place.

Iceguy
02-18-2013, 06:44 PM
Dave - I'm not understanding - FV ? FD ?

Bitsyncmaster
02-18-2013, 06:56 PM
Dave - I'm not understanding - FV ? FD ?

Sorry.

FV = Frequency Valve. on passenger side valve cover.

FD = Fuel Distributor. The round black thing with all your fuel hoses going to it.

Iceguy
02-18-2013, 07:08 PM
1667916680

Thanks Dave - Here are a couple pics.

Bitsyncmaster
02-18-2013, 07:33 PM
I was looking for the drawing of the fuel hose routing but could not find it. It was done very nicely on the old forum. Your hoses look pretty clean and probably are attached correctly.

When you get time, pull the air cleaner off and you will see the FV. If you touch the FV with a wooden dowel or a large screw driver then touch your ear with the end of dowel (use your hand as a pad for you ear). It works just like a stethoscope. You should hear the FV buzzing when your engine is running. That trick works good to find other problems with engines like a bad bearing.

jmpdmc
02-18-2013, 07:56 PM
Fuel Hose Diagram this thread post #3: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?352-K-Jetronic-System


Jeff

Iceguy
02-18-2013, 08:04 PM
The hoses were redone by the previous owner, I found the bill in the glovebox. I will try the trick with the FV tomorrow.

Iceguy
02-19-2013, 05:54 PM
Well Im back to the begining again. This is the wire I disconnected yesterday. Today I'm back to running 2 - 4 minutes.

Bitsyncmaster
02-19-2013, 06:27 PM
Well Im back to the begining again. This is the wire I disconnected yesterday. Today I'm back to running 2 - 4 minutes.

Wonder what wire you disconnected. The O2 wire is that blue wire on the right side. There is also another blue wire that is your pickup wire for the ignition.

Iceguy
02-19-2013, 07:01 PM
Well I am dumb-founded - or just really stupid, but I do not see any way to unplug either one of those wires. I've studied the diagrams and drawings and still can't tell you which is which. I can't believe something so simple has me this confused.

Bitsyncmaster
02-19-2013, 07:28 PM
Well I am dumb-founded - or just really stupid, but I do not see any way to unplug either one of those wires. I've studied the diagrams and drawings and still can't tell you which is which. I can't believe something so simple has me this confused.

The O2 sensor unplugs at the drivers side wheel well right where the wire enters the tub. But if unplugging that other wire fixed your problem than we need to find what that wire is for. Can you see colors on the wire?

Iceguy
02-20-2013, 04:12 PM
OK - Maybe, just maybe I finally got this right. Here is what I unpluged now. The car sat and ran for 15 minutes. Took it up & back the street - still running. Shut it off, came back out - started up, ran another 15 min.

Dave - I can not see the colors of the wires where I unplugged before - it goes into a junction and is all wrapped up under that metal plate in the middle. I replugged that back, just to be safe. I can not explain why it ran the other day with this wire unplugged, I'm just affraid it may be a bigger problem. It just kills me the way it will run perfect - then all the sudden - nothing.

Iceguy
02-20-2013, 04:15 PM
Sorry -- heres the pic

Morpheus
02-20-2013, 05:15 PM
^ You have successfully disconnected your O2 sensor.

SS Spoiler
02-20-2013, 05:28 PM
What about the impulse coil?

Iceguy
02-20-2013, 05:35 PM
-Y-E-A-H ! Now hope that is what my problem is.

Bitsyncmaster
02-20-2013, 07:09 PM
What about the impulse coil?

The impulse wire can only be unplugged in the engine compartment. That connector is a two pin connector.

Iceguy
02-20-2013, 08:13 PM
Impulse Coil ? - Do I need to look for something else ?

Bitsyncmaster
02-21-2013, 05:15 AM
Impulse Coil ? - Do I need to look for something else ?

No. If you are running good with the O2 sensor wire unplugged, your problem is in the lambda system. If you unplug the Impulse coil your engine will not run.

Iceguy
02-21-2013, 08:08 AM
Ok, I found that one first. I remembered you said if I unplug the wrong one the car would stop. It did. So I replugged that one and searched for the other connection. From what I have read about the lambda system is only for emmissions. It wont hurt the motor to not have it connected ? I live in Florida and dont need to pass inspection.

Iceguy
02-21-2013, 11:06 AM
No - not fixed. It just ran 3 min and shut back off.

Bitsyncmaster
02-21-2013, 01:48 PM
No - not fixed. It just ran 3 min and shut back off.

So did that first wire (not a blue wire) fix it and the O2 disconnected will not fix it?

Iceguy
02-21-2013, 02:06 PM
It doesn't run with either or both wires disconnected. After I disconnected the first wire it ran great - that day. The next day I start it - 3 min later shuts off. The same with blue wire. Disconnected it yesterday, the rest of the day it was running great, but start it today - 3 min then dead.

Ron
02-21-2013, 03:15 PM
I'm thinking Johnathan may have been right about the fuel at this point. Maybe try this:
Next time it runs then quits, immediately see if there is pressure at the air plate. If no pressure, check the fuel filter. If so, quickly push it down and release it (dumps some fuel). See if it then starts right back up rather than having to let it sit a while....

Jonathan
02-21-2013, 03:15 PM
Hey Iceman,

Any chance you've got a bad batch of gas in your tank? Either old gas or maybe a fill up at a station with either stale gas or water in it? Have you emptied and cleaned the tank since you've owned it?

Good luck. ~ Slider

sdg3205
02-21-2013, 04:15 PM
If I missed it I apologize, but sounds like crud building up on the pick up filter in the tank.

Bitsyncmaster
02-21-2013, 04:51 PM
Make up a jumper for the RPM relay. I have seen many of those cause intermittent engine stoppage. It's just that your first post seemed to repeatable timing to be that problem. Your jumper should connect the large brown wire to both the white/purple wire and the double yellow/red pin.

eldusto84
02-22-2013, 01:27 PM
The RPM at idle is about 10,000. If I leave it idle, after 2 - 3 minutes it starts to run rough then it shuts down.

I almost spit water at my screen. 10,000 RPM would be a smidge over redline, methinks.

Iceguy
02-22-2013, 02:08 PM
Made a little head way - here is what I have so far. I'm guessing nothing has been done to the gas tank.

I also dont understand - pressure on the air plate ?

Dangermouse
02-22-2013, 02:19 PM
The airplate is that silver circle in the center of your second picture. You should feel resistance when you push it down after the engine has run.

Iceguy
02-22-2013, 03:03 PM
Ok after shutting off I pushed down on the airplate. It had pressure, but would not restart.

Ron
02-22-2013, 03:42 PM
Did you also check one of the plug wires to see if you still had spark?

Iceguy
03-02-2013, 07:01 PM
Been doing some tinkering on my car and think my problem is somewhere in the fuel system. Either the fuel pump, or some crud in the line somewhere. I was wondering if someone can tell what this box by the fuel sender does ?

DMCMW Dave
03-02-2013, 08:12 PM
Tankzilla fuel gauge sender. Not the problem.

Iceguy
03-03-2013, 04:04 PM
Took out the fuel pump. The tank looks clean. I unplugged the wire to the pump and checked the electrical connection when I turned the key to on - 0 volts. But that does not explain why it will run 3 min then shut down.

Bitsyncmaster
03-03-2013, 06:35 PM
Took out the fuel pump. The tank looks clean. I unplugged the wire to the pump and checked the electrical connection when I turned the key to on - 0 volts. But that does not explain why it will run 3 min then shut down.

Fuel pump only gets power when the engine is running. Most RPM relays prime the pump (power for 1 second) when you turn the key on,

Iceguy
03-03-2013, 07:01 PM
I was trying to narrow down where my problem lies, but I came up with a lot more questions. I know the fuel pump works - at least I can "feel" the gas going thru the line when running and now understand why it shut off when the car does. I tried useing a "jumper" to power the pump, but it didnt work. I am still trying to work out if it is electrical or mechanical.
Now the battery died, so I have to charge it.

Jonathan
03-03-2013, 08:08 PM
Hey Ice,

It might be worth checking the connections on and around your inertia switch. That little gizmo is intended to shut your fuel pump off if your car is upside down. Maybe something with it is causing the intermittent fuel pump shut downs?

It is located under the driver's footwell. It might be screwed to the same bracket as your lambda/service counter, or it might have been relocated to the left, on the inside of the left front fender area. Looks like this:

http://store.delorean.com/p-7047-inertia-switch.aspx

Morpheus
03-04-2013, 04:27 PM
Fred,

Have you checked your fusebox yet? I'd be willing to bet that fuse 7 is a mess.

Iceguy
03-05-2013, 03:17 PM
Heres a pic of my fuse box. ( Pic 1 ) There was no fuse in #15 main beam. I looked at # 7 & it looked good. I traded it with another fuse and still shutting off. I am wondering about the modules. ( Pic 2 ) There is one missing - and it has jumpers connecting it across to another. And last - I was looking under the dash on the drivers side and found the box on the right ( in pic 3 ) was unplugged. I replugged it in. I was looking on line and don't see what they are. ----- I just tried starting my car - now will not start. Unplugged this box.

Iceguy
03-05-2013, 03:19 PM
Also - if the battery was going bad - would it cause this ?

Jonathan
03-05-2013, 03:37 PM
Hi Iceguy (is your name Fred?),

A couple observations from your pictures.

Check the fuse box schematic out for starters.

17008

The one in your second (sorry, mixed your picture order around originally) picture on the top row of five sockets with the brown jumper wire looks like #30 on the schematic, which is for the A/C panel illumination. You don't normally see a jumper wire there. It would normally be a relay.

The one in the bottom left hand corner is #27, the fan fail relay socket. It is the one most often having the pair of inline 20 Amp fuses wired to it. Hard to say what yours are connected to at the moment, but at least the left most connection in the #27 socket looks open.

Here is a picture I took recently of my fuse and relay area to give you some perspective.

17009

In your first picture, that inline fuse holder is extra. Not sure why it is there, but it probably accounting for at least one of your missing fuses in the box. Again, consult the schematic for which size fuses should be in each position and what they connect to.

If you were to look at your fuse and relay area and assume that underneath the sockets it is still connected as originally designed, there would be a number of things on your car not doing anything or at least not what they are supposed to. Conclusion is that some or many wires underneath the fuse box and relay sockets have been switcheroo'd for some reason.

My suggestion would be to take a step back in order to let you and your car take a big step forward and put the majority of your wiring back the way it was supposed to be. Years ago guys didn't have access to the knowledge or expertise or parts to keep the cars going the way they were intended. Now all of us have that information so you can put your car back the way it was supposed to be. This will likely give you the best chance to eliminate future problems as well as solve the issue you're having with your car shutting off after 3 minutes.

The third picture is the windshield wiper delay module and the buzzer. It was either unplugged because someone didn't care much for the buzzer, or didn't understand how the wiper delay works. Plug it back in. If an annoying buzzer ensues, unplug it again or disconnect your door plunger. If not, you probably just got your wipers working.

That bracket by the way snaps into a clever spot up in on the side of the pedals assembly. Next to impossible to see it in your car by putting your head up in there, but Dave S took a good picture of it one day that I can share here.

17010

Iceguy
03-05-2013, 06:49 PM
I just had my car running. It ran 40 min. Drove it up & back the street twice. Put it back in the garage, moved my truck back in front of the garage, started the Delorean again - started right up --- then quit after 2 min. This thing is making me crazy.

Iceguy
03-06-2013, 10:26 AM
I noticed that I have 2 Inertia switches. One mounted in the right of the pic - thats unplugged, another to the left - that is plugged in. Looks to me like this has been an issue in the past. Is there a way to ~jump~ this box. I'm thinking if there is a way to hook up around this switch, so that the fuel pump would not be cut off and just keep running, I might have found my problem. I also replugged in the buzzer. It makes no noise, but the seatbelt light on the dash now comes on. Also as far as my fuse box / electrical goes - My power locks & mirrors do not work. So I can only guess to what has changed & rigged up.

Jonathan
03-06-2013, 12:06 PM
If the inertia switch on the right is unplugged, it would be fine staying where it is (functionally anyway). It was relocated to the left as per this safety recall:

http://dmcnews.com/bulletins/SC-06-7.82.pdf

You can see the white paint mark on it indicating it was done. I don't know if the switch itself was changed internally at all or if it was just the location. This was never done on my car so I don't really know much about it (maybe I should though!!)

The inertia switch plunger on the top you see there will pop up if you are upside down, which would of course be popping down if you know what I mean. Check your switch plunger to see if something doesn't seem right about it. It might be popped up, but that wouldn't explain why the car starts at times, but shuts down after a few minutes as I'm assuming no one is under there playing with the plunger.

Another owner mentioned to me at one point about why his power door locks wouldn't lock when they were supposed to. We realized it was because he had popped the plunger up while it was stored as kind of a built in extra security anti-theft feature. If the door lock module on your car is plugged in (mine is not), that inertia switch when cutting off the fuel pump was also supposed to unlock the doors. So by popping the plunger he inadvertantly forced his doors unlocked and couldn't lock them again until we realized the connection.

You mention your door locks (and mirrors) don't work. There could be something going on in common with your fuel pump wiring and door locks and the inertia switch. The more we learn here the more I want to emphasize the importance of perhaps biting the bullet on the next bit of time you own your car and the hopes of driving it, and really consider doing some serious rework to put your wiring back the way it should be. I don't doubt this will not be the last new electrical thing we find until then.

One other note, with that inertia switch, there was an apparent way you could whack the car from the wheel well or panel outside that would rattle the inertia switch enough to unlock the doors. Not exactly very car thief proof :) Another decent reason to unplug your door lock module.

I don't know for certain about jumping the inertia switch to test things. It could be as simple as shorting two wires together. Maybe someone else can chime in about that?

Iceguy
03-15-2013, 08:30 PM
I have done a relay update. The fans are back working as normal ( thanx Brandon ). Previous owner had them so they come on as soon as the car was started. Now have all new relays and it seems to be running good. Had it running 30 min, took a little test drive down the street - all seems good. Turned it off I let it cool off for a while & restarted fine. Ran another 25 min. Fingers crossed - hope I have found my problem.