Cooling Fans - Not working

[galbiati]

Since I got the car in December the cooling fans have never went on.

I turn the a/c on - nothing.
I have a Hervey Unit in the relay compartment.
Where do I start checking?

[David T]

Remove the two wires going to the otterstadt switch in the cooling pipe on the left side of the engine bay. Connect the wires together with a straightened out paper clip. When you turn on the ignition key you should hear the fans run. If you do not, you need to check if you have the fan bypass or the blue fan fail relay and if the circuit breaker is good. It could also be a wiring problem or even both fan motors are bad. Be careful so you do not overheat the motor. That would be bad. The Hervey unit may not be connected correctly too.
David Teitelbaum

[Jack]

At the same time as what David said, check the in line diodes for the fans.
They can be found on the main harness to the fuses box area.

[Jonathan]

Try the otterstat jumper wire like David says. You should hear them come on if you do that.

You are right that the fans should come on when you turn on the A/C. However, if your freon was low and the A/C compressor clutch was not clacking in, I don't believe the fans would come on (not 100% sure on that, might need someone else to double check). Do you know if your freon is at an okay level/pressure? If you turn on the A/C, do you hear the clutch clack in? Note, you can try this clutch clacking without the engine running. Just do it with the key turned to accessories.

If you have only owned your car for a few months, with minimal driving, and you are enjoying the winter weather there in Pennsylvania, it is possible the fans have never needed to come on. You might have kept the engine cool enough with the driving you have been doing and the temperature outside, to not need them. I see this on my car at certain times of the year too.

Regardless, Dave's otterstat test should tell you one way or the other, so do that first.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Everyone should carry a jumper they have made up with the proper flat pins. You can damage pins and have problems later from that damage when you use a paper clip or other device for testing.

[David T]

Not likely you will cause any damage but you are right, everyone should have at least 1 short piece of wire with 2 male spade connectors on it so you can jump out (test) switches and relays. I suggested the paper clip because it is easy to get almost anywhere.
As for the fans and the A/C, the A/C will force the fans on ONLY if there is enough freon to run the A/C. Since I don't know if the A/C works, the simpler test is to just jumper the Otterstadt switch so I don't care if the A/C works or not to test the cooling fans. Before digging for the diodes this simple test will prove out a lot of the cooling fan circuit with minimal work and tools. I prefer to do the simpler things first before going for the complicated stuff. Like they say in medicine, when you hear hoofbeats you should not first think of Zebras or Unicorns.
David Teitelbaum

[Jack]

Before digging for the diodes this simple test will prove out a lot of the cooling fan circuit with minimal work and tools.
I was impelling that if the fans didn't come on that the diodes could be tested while the jumper was still in place.

[galbiati]

Remove the two wires going to the otterstadt switch in the cooling pipe on the left side of the engine bay. Connect the wires together with a straightened out paper clip. When you turn on the ignition key you should hear the fans run. If you do not, you need to check if you have the fan bypass or the blue fan fail relay and if the circuit breaker is good. It could also be a wiring problem or even both fan motors are bad. Be careful so you do not overheat the motor. That would be bad. The Hervey unit may not be connected correctly too.
David Teitelbaum

I jumped the otterstat wires and turned the ignition to the on position and the fans went on. Does this mean the otterstat is bad?
I also noticed a severe antifreeze leak in the front of the motor under the water pump (dripping down block, and off of oil pan onto ground).
The a/c is missing the belt and I am assuming needs work/leaks/charged.

[DeLorean03]

I jumped the otterstat wires and turned the ignition to the on position and the fans went on. Does this mean the otterstat is bad?


Yes.



I also noticed a severe antifreeze leak in the front of the motor under the water pump (dripping down block, and off of oil pan onto ground).
The a/c is missing the belt and I am assuming needs work/leaks/charged.

A/C belts can be bought at any DMC vendor, or you can get them from the cross-reference list here under "Belt - Compressor":

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?932-Parts-Crossover-List

For your coolant leak, you need a coolant system pressure checker. These can be rented/loaned to you from Autozone/Advanced Auto Parts/Pep Boys. It is probably one of the two hoses underneath the intake manifold on the back of the waterpump - opposite the side as the water pump pulley (not visible just staring at the engine).

[Jonathan]

I jumped the otterstat wires and turned the ignition to the on position and the fans went on. Does this mean the otterstat is bad?


Yes.

Well, hypothetically the otterstat could be okay if the only problem was the engine never got hot enough to heat the coolant in that pipe... or if the pipe was full of air, etc. due to the leak it might not have sensed a hot condition. Or the coolant pipe with the otterstat is upside down... Galbiati... is your otterstat facing down to the ground or up? Most owners have that coolant pipe configured to point the "tee" down so if there was an air bubble, it isn't between the otterstat and the coolant.

So we know your fans work when you force them on. That is good news. That rules out a mess of other things up front as well as in the fuse and relay area.

First thing to do is fix the coolant leak. Once that is done and you have a good level in the system and no air, then run your engine and monitor the temperature. Your otterstat if working correctly will kick the fans on before the 220 ticky mark. Keep an eye on it and don't let the engine get warm for too long if you feel the fans should have come on. If the otterstat is bad, you get to replace and refill the coolant all over again. You could throw money and parts at it now and put a new otterstat in, but at this point that isn't for sure the problem.

From your description of the A/C system, it sounds like you are low on freon. If you have that jumper wire you made handy, we can do a quick low pressure switch jumper and get the clutch to clack in. That will tell you whether at least some of the system is working. Again, you can do it with the engine off and key to accessories as your A/C compressor won't appreciate you forcing it to run if there is no freon in there. With the engine off, you can hear the clutch clack in pretty easily. The low pressure switch is up by the front right wheel well. It is an easy test, but the A/C system is about the last thing to really stress over at this point. Get the coolant system fixed and worry about A/C later.

[DMCMW Dave]

I jumped the otterstat wires and turned the ignition to the on position and the fans went on. Does this mean the otterstat is bad?
I also noticed a severe antifreeze leak in the front of the motor under the water pump (dripping down block, and off of oil pan onto ground).
.

If the engine got really hot, the otter stat is bad or the engine was / is low on coolant. With a severe water pump leak, that could certainly be a problem.


That leak can be the two side hoses, the two back hoses (you can't see them until you take the intake manifold off) or the bump bearing itself. In all but the side hoses, the intake and pump will be coming off.

A very obscure leak would be the y-pipe to block connection also under the manifold, but I doubt it.

[galbiati]

Well, hypothetically the otterstat could be okay if the only problem was the engine never got hot enough to heat the coolant in that pipe... or if the pipe was full of air, etc. due to the leak it might not have sensed a hot condition. Or the coolant pipe with the otterstat is upside down... Galbiati... is your otterstat facing down to the ground or up? Most owners have that coolant pipe configured to point the "tee" down so if there was an air bubble, it isn't between the otterstat and the coolant.

So we know your fans work when you force them on. That is good news. That rules out a mess of other things up front as well as in the fuse and relay area.

First thing to do is fix the coolant leak. Once that is done and you have a good level in the system and no air, then run your engine and monitor the temperature. Your otterstat if working correctly will kick the fans on before the 220 ticky mark. Keep an eye on it and don't let the engine get warm for too long if you feel the fans should have come on. If the otterstat is bad, you get to replace and refill the coolant all over again. You could throw money and parts at it now and put a new otterstat in, but at this point that isn't for sure the problem.

From your description of the A/C system, it sounds like you are low on freon. If you have that jumper wire you made handy, we can do a quick low pressure switch jumper and get the clutch to clack in. That will tell you whether at least some of the system is working. Again, you can do it with the engine off and key to accessories as your A/C compressor won't appreciate you forcing it to run if there is no freon in there. With the engine off, you can hear the clutch clack in pretty easily. The low pressure switch is up by the front right wheel well. It is an easy test, but the A/C system is about the last thing to really stress over at this point. Get the coolant system fixed and worry about A/C later.

Otterstat is facing down. I will have to get the car back in the garage again. My girlfriend is going to snap. System may be airbound due to low coolant due to leak. A/C is missing the belt so I cant even fool with that until I get one. What really bothers me the most is that the PO was a "mechanic" by trade. Everything I have found so far has been repaired as if it were done on the interstate shoulder in an emergency.

[galbiati]

If the engine got really hot, the otter stat is bad or the engine was / is low on coolant. With a severe water pump leak, that could certainly be a problem.


That leak can be the two side hoses, the two back hoses (you can't see them until you take the intake manifold off) or the bump bearing itself. In all but the side hoses, the intake and pump will be coming off.

A very obscure leak would be the y-pipe to block connection also under the manifold, but I doubt it.

I will have to get it inside and take a look. Maybe tomorrow, keep you posted...

[galbiati]

If by chance I do need a water pump, is there a cross for a Eagle 3.0 or do I have to order one from a delorean vendor and wait for delivery?

[DeLorean03]

First things first - you have to determine to the best of your ability where that coolant leak is coming from. Safest way to do is renting a coolant pressure checker - something similar to this at you local name-brand auto parts store: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-cooling-system-pressure-tester/p-00946342000P


If you get a water pump kit from the vendors, get yourself an otterstat. You'll pay almost half as much in shipping as the part if it's ordered all by itself - do yourself a favor - buy an otterstat if you get the waterpump kit.

In the end, you'll probably be buying these three things:

Otterstat: http://store.delorean.com/p-6348-cooling-fan-switch-otterstat.aspx

Water pump rebuild kit: http://store.delorean.com/p-6247-water-pump-assembly.aspx

Automatic air bleeder kit: http://www.delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K1012DP-A&Category_Code=9475

The last link is a subsidiary website of DMC-NW - run by Toby Peterson, president of DMC-NW - and his products are outstanding and well worth their money.

[DeLorean03]

What really bothers me the most is that the PO was a "mechanic" by trade. Everything I have found so far has been repaired as if it were done on the interstate shoulder in an emergency.

We have an acronym for those: DPO. DreadedPreviousOwner

[galbiati]

First things first - you have to determine to the best of your ability where that coolant leak is coming from. Safest way to do is renting a coolant pressure checker - something similar to this at you local name-brand auto parts store: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-cooling-system-pressure-tester/p-00946342000P


If you get a water pump kit from the vendors, get yourself an otterstat. You'll pay almost half as much in shipping as the part if it's ordered all by itself - do yourself a favor - buy an otterstat if you get the waterpump kit.

In the end, you'll probably be buying these three things:

Otterstat: http://store.delorean.com/p-6348-cooling-fan-switch-otterstat.aspx

Water pump rebuild kit: http://store.delorean.com/p-6247-water-pump-assembly.aspx

Automatic air bleeder kit: http://www.delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K1012DP-A&Category_Code=9475

The last link is a subsidiary website of DMC-NW - run by Toby Peterson, president of DMC-NW - and his products are outstanding and well worth their money.

I have a feeling that it is just a leaky hose or a bad connection, as it is leaking while parked. I'd say at least 1/2 gallon overnight.

[DeLorean03]

A HALF....gallon ? The coolant system holds 2 or 3 gallons. Yeah, you definitely need to get a pressure checker on it, or get under the intake manifold and find where it is coming from.

[DMC5180]

Do you have a 3.0 liter conversion? What is the history of this car? Do you have K-jet or EFI? Post a couple Engine pics please.

[galbiati]

Do you have a 3.0 liter conversion? What is the history of this car? Do you have K-jet or EFI? Post a couple Engine pics please.

No, I have the factory installed motor. History in a nutshell is total neglect: either a half ass repair or a disconnect/bypass/and drive repair. K-jet.

[galbiati]

I just wanted to pull the intake to see exactly what is leaking, thats why I asked if the intake gaskets from a 3.0 Eagle premier would work, because I can get them locally. I don't want to rip this engine apart and be stuck for a week waiting on parts. So, does anyone know if the gaskets would interchange?

[Jonathan]

I just wanted to pull the intake to see exactly what is leaking, thats why I asked if the intake gaskets from a 3.0 Eagle premier would work, because I can get them locally. I don't want to rip this engine apart and be stuck for a week waiting on parts. So, does anyone know if the gaskets would interchange?

FWIW: All the vendors I have worked with can get you parts next day, maybe two at the worst. Even to Canada. You wouldn't have to wait a week for parts unless you were trying to find something NLA.

[David T]

You need a bunch of "O" rings and some copper washers. You might be able to find all of that locally.
David teitelbaum

[nullset]

If you can't find the gaskets/orings/etc, you can probably get them from a Volvo shop locally, assuming such a thing exists for you.

You can also make your own paper gaskets.

How long has it been since the manifold has been removed on this car? You can do it without removing the mixture unit, which would mean you won't need all the copper washers.

--buddy

[galbiati]

If you can't find the gaskets/orings/etc, you can probably get them from a Volvo shop locally, assuming such a thing exists for you.

You can also make your own paper gaskets.

How long has it been since the manifold has been removed on this car? You can do it without removing the mixture unit, which would mean you won't need all the copper washers.

--buddy

That is what I am going to try to do (remove without removing mixture unit). I don't know the last time this intake was off, but it definitely was off recently as I can see the gasket sealer all over the place. I only own this since December.

[nullset]

The first question is where is your coolant leak coming from?

If you can inspect the hoses up top and see if it's leaking from one of those, that might be something you could fix by just tightening a clamp.

If it's leaking from the water pump housing itself, you're going to need a new water pump or a rebuild kit.

If you can't see the leak at all, it's time to pull the manifold. If you're going to pull the manifold, I'd get a gasket/o-ring/etc set from your favorite vendor. I usually don't buy things from Hervey, but he has a decent kit for this that's reasonably priced.

While you're in there, you'd might as well inspect and/or replace the spark plugs, and maybe the wires. It's MUCH easier with the intake out of there!

Check the "resources" section of the forum for a nice, detailed write up.

Make sure you have a good torque wrench for reassembly.

--buddy (aka ryan)