Car sounds like a motorcycle

[orbitron3000]

Hello,

My car since I got it has been rather loud. It's always been my suspicion that there is a hole somewhere in the exhaust. My neighbor also noticed that it may have a cylinder misfiring as well, so I decided to change the plugs. After changing the plugs, the engine sounds the same (whoo! didn't mess anything up further!), but I'd like to know if there is still a misfire and if there is anything else that people can glean from the sound.

Here is a video a took of the engine sound. The video's sound isn't the greatest, but it is very loud.
http://youtu.be/NzRpvnOxuos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzRpvnOxuos

The engine sounds louder on the driver's side.

Any notes or advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Ryan

[Jacko]

Leaking exhaust gasket ...?

[OverlandMan]

Blown head gasket ...?

I would think this only if it were leaking coolant or puffing white smoke...

Sounds like an exhaust leak to me. I'd investigate that first.

[orbitron3000]

Blown head gasket ...?


I would think this only if it were leaking coolant or puffing white smoke...

Sounds like an exhaust leak to me. I'd investigate that first.

I should note this video was taken after the car had warmed up. It's 32*F here and while the car was first running, there was white smoke from the exhaust, but I attributed this to the car being cold. There was no smoke from the exhaust after being warmed up.

[SamHill]

So when's the last time your exhaust manifold gaskets were replaced?

[orbitron3000]

I would think this only if it were leaking coolant or puffing white smoke...

Sounds like an exhaust leak to me. I'd investigate that first.

Are there some parts of the exhaust that are more like to be leaking than others? Or is it a case of check each part of the exhaust system?


So when's the last time your exhaust manifold gaskets were replaced?

At least two years (time I've owned the car). I don't know when or if the PO replaced them or not.

[Dangermouse]

Did you notice any exhaust smoke coming out from around the gasket area before the engine warmed up?

[OverlandMan]

Are there some parts of the exhaust that are more like to be leaking than others? Or is it a case of check each part of the exhaust system?

At least two years (time I've owned the car). I don't know when or if the PO replaced them or not.

I'd start off looking at the manifold (and manifold gaskets as SamHill mentioned). Work your way back from there looking for anything obvious.

As far as the white smoke goes... it's possible that the head gasket is blown to some extent. While its cold (and contracted) it leaks coolant into the combustion chamber, thus the white smoke. When it warms up (and expands) this goes away. It will probably only get worse over time. Definitely something to look into. Are you positive it is white smoke and not just the winter-time exhaust effect?

I'd also check the oil and make sure it isn't milky in any way.

[Jacko]

I would think this only if it were leaking coolant or puffing white smoke...

Sounds like an exhaust leak to me. I'd investigate that first.Hey, Jeff, I was thinking exhaust and my fingers were typing head gasket ... a short between the headsets!:Headspin:

[orbitron3000]

Did you notice any exhaust smoke coming out from around the gasket area before the engine warmed up?

I don't recall any smoke from within the engine bay before the engine warmed up.


I'd start off looking at the manifold (and manifold gaskets as SamHill mentioned). Work your way back from there looking for anything obvious.

As far as the white smoke goes... it's possible that the head gasket is blown to some extent. While its cold (and contracted) it leaks coolant into the combustion chamber, thus the white smoke. When it warms up (and expands) this goes away. It will probably only get worse over time. Definitely something to look into. Are you positive it is white smoke and not just the winter-time exhaust effect?

I'd also check the oil and make sure it isn't milky in any way.

Oil doesn't look milky, but I'm not positive if the observed smoke from the exhaust is winter-time exhaust or bad-gasket-exhaust. Is there a difference in smell or some other way to make the distinction?

[OverlandMan]

I don't recall any smoke from within the engine bay before the engine warmed up.



Oil doesn't look milky, but I'm not positive if the observed smoke from the exhaust is winter-time exhaust or bad-gasket-exhaust. Is there a difference in smell or some other way to make the distinction?

White smoke due to coolant burning off is thick and distinctive. --> at least that's been my experience.


Hey, Jeff, I was thinking exhaust and my fingers were typing head gasket ... a short between the headsets!
No worries. Sounds like there could be an issue there too...

[orbitron3000]

White smoke due to coolant burning off is thick and distinctive.

...

The more I think about it, it seems likelier that it was coolant smoke.

[OverlandMan]

The more I think about it, it seems likelier that it was coolant smoke.

What's the history on the car? How long have you had it and what all have you done to it? Did this just start happening or was it always sounding bad and puffing white smoke while cold?

[orbitron3000]

What's the history on the car? How long have you had it and what all have you done to it? Did this just start happening or was it always sounding bad and puffing white smoke while cold?

Had the car about two years, a few owners before me. Never took any note of the white smoke, never did it in summer. It's always been loud.

[OverlandMan]

Had the car about two years, a few owners before me. Never took any note of the white smoke, never did it in summer. It's always been loud.

Ok - based off that info and what you've already disclosed. I would guess that the head gasket may be blown and slowly getting worse, as I previously mentioned. But as far as the sound goes, that seems more indicative of an exhaust leak.

Keep an eye on your oil and make sure it looks correct (nothing milky or bubbly). Next time you change the oil, take note to see if there's any water in it. If its been sitting, it will separate and the water will come out first. If there's water in the oil - change the head gasket(s) immediately. Coolant will ruin the bearings.

Once you figure out where your exhaust leak is (assuming that's what the sound is) then you will be able to hear the engine better and check for misfires or other potential problems.

That's the order I would troubleshoot this in if it were me.

[orbitron3000]

Ok - based off that info and what you've already disclosed. I would guess that the head gasket may be blown and slowly getting worse, as I previously mentioned. But as far as the sound goes, that seems more indicative of an exhaust leak.

Keep an eye on your oil and make sure it looks correct (nothing milky or bubbly). Next time you change the oil, take note to see if there's any water in it. If its been sitting, it will separate and the water will come out first. If there's water in the oil - change the head gasket(s) immediately. Coolant will ruin the bearings.

Once you figure out where your exhaust leak is (assuming that's what the sound is) then you will be able to hear the engine better and check for misfires or other potential problems.

That's the order I would troubleshoot this in if it were me.

Many thanks for all the input and advice! Much appreciated!

[Jeff K]

A buddy said pour some Seafoam (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_x_6410004-P_x_x?cm_mmc=ACQ-_-Google-_-enhancedRM-_-6410004&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=6410004&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw={keyword}&gclid=CKGw__PyyrUCFQhxQgodez4ATQ#fragment-3)in your throttle body and watch for smoke coming out of the area that's leaking.

FYI.. I have not tried this yet..

[Ron]

Most people are able to smell the sweetness of the antifreeze if the "smoke" is a due to a coolant leak...

Just rent/borrow a coolant system pressure tester from AZ and pump it up to the cap pressure. If the pressure falls, look for external leaks. If you don't find any, it's going into the engine via a bad head gasket and/or a cracked head.

Or, attach the tester when it is dead cold (don't pump it up) and see if the pressure starts to rise as soon as you crank start the engine.

[Kenny_Z]

I took a video of Red's exhaust leak noise yesterday so I can compare it when I get the new system in. Have a listen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKwRShn6ans

I was outside and the rear fascia is off but they sound exactly the same to me. I didn't see any smoke when I was recording it but Red doesn't smoke at all so I wasn't expecting any.

[AugustneverEnds]

I'm not an expert but I feel your noise is almost certainly the exhaust manifold gasket leaking. My car had a bad drivers side gasket and sounded exactly like yours.

As for the smoke it might not be the head gasket. Does your exhaust have a strong oily/fuel scent? Your mixture may be too rich and the smoke is from all of the burn-off. Might be worth having a look at the mixture control unit and all of the fuel injection hardware. Good Luck, you'll get it fixed :thumbup2:

[OverlandMan]

As for the smoke it might not be the head gasket. Does your exhaust have a strong oily/fuel scent? Your mixture may be too rich and the smoke is from all of the burn-off.

If it was burning oil, it would be a blue smoke, not white as previously described. Additionally, I don't think that would be due to a mixture setting.

[DMC5180]

Both the OP and Kenny have blown exhaust manifold gaskets. (The classic VW sound). My preference is to use the the One piece Stainless (Blow-Proof) ones sound by PJ grady. (Volvo spec)

Don't be surprised if you also have a snapped stud or two (heat cycle fractured). My car had the infamous tick tick tick when I bought it. I discovered 2 stud broken, one on each side (nearest the bell housing) was broken flush to the head surface. It was an adventure getting those out because of the limited access in Frame cradle area.

[Jonathan]

That tick-tick-tick sound says to me you have an exhaust manifold gasket leak.

I had one in my car and replacing the gaskets made it go away. Get the gasket kit and have a plan for dealing with a broken stud or two. DIY or get a shop to help if you like.

Here is a video of my car before the gaskets were replaced. I think this sound and your sound are a pretty close match.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2yvgO3lNkE

The after video of the gasket replacement is on YouTube there as well, but I don't think I can post two videos here in the same comment.

You may have other issues like the blown head gasket or a hole in the exhaust metal itself, but to me it seems the gasket leak on the exhaust manfiolds is fairly evident.

You can sometimes see little collections of black soot type stuff from the corners of one or more of your exhaust ports. Look at each manifold and if you see a little corner at the edge of the gasket/manifold that is black, that is likely where your leak is.

It might look something like this older picture from my car. Note the black soot on the left most port above the gasket.

16791

[Shep]

Would rolling up a piece of printer paper into a cone as an ear trumpet help to pinpoint the source of the noise? Something like this:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=16792&d=1361663276

Or would the volume be too loud for that? If it works, it'll at least give you a general location of where the noise is coming from. Just open the engine bay, put the small end in your ear, and start aiming the big end towards various parts of the exhaust. You should notice the sound getting louder as you aim closer to the source. You might have to stand back a bit if it's overly loud to avoid hearing damage, but I noticed in the video you were standing somewhat close to the engine already, so this might help.

[orbitron3000]

I'm 90% sure it's an exhaust gasket leak -- both from what people have said here with their past experience, and covering the exhaust and listening for the leak.

So now I'm in the market for some exhaust gaskets it seems. DMC5180, you like the PJ Grady ones. Has anyone had any experience with other vendors? Pros / Cons? Also, it seems that DPI has an exhaust gasket kit with a bunch of ancillary items such as o rings and the like. Does anyone know off hand if all those parts are necessary for a "simple" exhaust gasket change? Or would those extra items be useful when, say, removing the intake manifold to replace all old O rings and the like (another thing on my to-do-eventually list)?

[Kenny_Z]

My "simple exhaust gasket change" turned into a complete tear down because of broken studs. I have to take the heads to a machine shop to have the studs removed. If I had to do it again I would have taken it to an exhaust shop. I'd of gotten out of this a lot cheaper.

[Timebender]

Funny- my motorcycle sounds like a car- a Vette to be exact...

[eagle-co94]

The paper cone idea is nice, but I got two small funnels and about 2' of plastic tubing to make my own stethoscope. It works pretty well in trying to isolate sounds.

[DMC5180]

I'm 90% sure it's an exhaust gasket leak -- both from what people have said here with their past experience, and covering the exhaust and listening for the leak.

So now I'm in the market for some exhaust gaskets it seems. DMC5180, you like the PJ Grady ones. Has anyone had any experience with other vendors? Pros / Cons? Also, it seems that DPI has an exhaust gasket kit with a bunch of ancillary items such as o rings and the like. Does anyone know off hand if all those parts are necessary for a "simple" exhaust gasket change? Or would those extra items be useful when, say, removing the intake manifold to replace all old O rings and the like (another thing on my to-do-eventually list)?


If you are just planning retain the stock exhaust. Any broken stud will have too be removed and new installed. Generally speaking it is Normal to Replace ALL the studs with new when doing new gaskets regardless of the Style of gaskets you use. The standard Gaskets are the individual port gaskets. All the vendors sell them. The Best ones are IMO the One piece 3 port SS composite ones sold by Rob Grady. I replaced mine with those almost 19 years ago and 60K miles since then.

I was a bit lucky when I did mine. Only 2 broken studs. They broke due to heat stress fracturing rather than twisting off from being seized. I was able to make a simple drill jig that allowed me to center drill the broken studs for an EZ-out extractor. Remarkably they came out with minimal effort. They were not seized. All the the other studs were removed using a doubled nut method on the studs. None of those broke during the removal process.

The 2 gaskets , 12 studs and 12 M7 BRASS nuts. (Not sure if the BRASS nuts are still available any more) Were a little over $75 for the kit back then.

[DMCMW Dave]

Most important part of the job (other than not drilling holes in your heads when replacing broken studs) is to get the manifolds resurfaced. Flad sanding is OK if you check them, getting them machined is best. If you don't, any gaskets will blow out again in weeks. Or sooner.

[orbitron3000]

If you are just planning retain the stock exhaust. Any broken stud will have too be removed and new installed. Generally speaking it is Normal to Replace ALL the studs with new when doing new gaskets regardless of the Style of gaskets you use. The standard Gaskets are the individual port gaskets. All the vendors sell them. The Best ones are IMO the One piece 3 port SS composite ones sold by Rob Grady. I replaced mine with those almost 19 years ago and 60K miles since then.

I was a bit lucky when I did mine. Only 2 broken studs. They broke due to heat stress fracturing rather than twisting off from being seized. I was able to make a simple drill jig that allowed me to center drill the broken studs for an EZ-out extractor. Remarkably they came out with minimal effort. They were not seized. All the the other studs were removed using a doubled nut method on the studs. None of those broke during the removal process.

The 2 gaskets , 12 studs and 12 M7 BRASS nuts. (Not sure if the BRASS nuts are still available any more) Were a little over $75 for the kit back then.


Most important part of the job (other than not drilling holes in your heads when replacing broken studs) is to get the manifolds resurfaced. Flad sanding is OK if you check them, getting them machined is best. If you don't, any gaskets will blow out again in weeks. Or sooner.

Phew! This is going to be quite the adventure! I think Kenny_Z may have it right and I may just find an exhaust/machine shop and see if they'll swap out the parts. That why the manifolds can be checked and machined as well. I had no idea changing a simple exhaust gasket had so many steps :ohcrap: oh well -- learn something new everyday, right?