Indicators

[MML]

I mentioned this very briefly before in another thread but we've had a closer look at it since, so I thought I'd make a thread about it.

Anyway, the gist of the story was, I tried replacing the hazard switch bulb with a LED. I modified the little pins as you're supposed to do but it didn't seem to work. I removed and reseated it in the socket a couple of times to see if it made any difference, but the LED would not light. On one attempt fuse #6 blew, and I replaced it.
As it stands now, for some reason, the hazard switch isn't working at all; if you press it the hazards don't flash, nor do the green binnacle lights. You can hear the flasher unit clicking though when you press the button.
The directional indicators don't work either, so no turn signals....

As Dave M said at the time, I may have cooked a wire somewhere. As my radio is currently away I had a peek in behind the switch, and I noticed this diode/resistor?? on the same circuit. If you look closely on the end face you can see what looks like "blistering". Could this mean it's fried internally, or are those something like bubbles in the molding of the plastic?
Are these easy to replace? Or can they be bypassed for testing?

One other thing I took a look at was the bulb sockets - they look like they've been dredged from a lake. I had no idea they were so bad. Could they be causing the problem?
I'm about to order replacements from DMC EU and am wondering if I should order a replacement diode/whatsit as well.

http://i.imgur.com/hcMIV0i.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6eXfQpx.jpg

[WelmoedJ]

A lot of (front) sidemarker lamp fittings seem to get corroded.
At least I had to replace mine on my previous and current car.

DMC has replacements for them.
Make sure you seal them so the do nt allow water to get in there or you'll face replacement again in a couple of years.

The only way to check if the diode is bad, is using a universal meter.
The actual diode is inside the black shell.
You could temporarily replace it with an oridinary diode like 1N4001 or alike.
That's just to find out if the indicator lights work again using the alarm switch, or not.

Use the electrical diagram to understand the function of this diode.

[DrJeff]

...One other thing I took a look at was the bulb sockets - they look like they've been dredged from a lake. I had no idea they were so bad. Could they be causing the problem?
I'm about to order replacements from DMC EU and am wondering if I should order a replacement diode/whatsit as well. ...

MML,

I'm just in the middle of figuring out a solution to the marker bulb sockets. I also had a badly corroded front RH marker socket - but it wasn't causing my short. So I decided to design a solution using a combination of 3D printing and a socket available from SuperbrightLEDs.com

Here's the link to the socket (http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/empty-bases-sockets/led-product/13/86/)
17771
Cost $0.99 for each socket.

Here is a picture of the socket adapter that I created for 3D printing. It should snuggle the outside of the bare bulb socket and then it is sized to clip into the hole in the D's marker holders. The first (castle-like) ridge (should) allow it to grab the opening and the second ridge should provide a little more water tightness.
17772.
Each adapter cost $2.50 to be printed (white strong flexible plastic).

The plan is to fit the bare socket into the 3D printed adapter (with the connection tabs folded back) and then click the new socket+adapter into the marker light (just as the metal version does today). I say plan because I haven't received the socket adapters from the 3D printer company yet (probably late this week). Once I get them I'll be able to try them out on the car and see how they work.

I've got a good number of 3D printed items on the car already, so I'm fairly confident this will work...
1. AC pipe adapters - all my AC vents are in the kneepads
2. Custom 3rd brakelight
3. DMC logo on steering wheel in stainless steel

[MML]

The only way to check if the diode is bad, is using a universal meter.
The actual diode is inside the black shell.
You could temporarily replace it with an oridinary diode like 1N4001 or alike.
That's just to find out if the indicator lights work again using the alarm switch, or not.

Hi Welmoed, it just occurred to me, you mentioned this last month ago in our emails... I completely forgot. Argh. :facepalm: I tend to leave things a long time and end up forgetting about them!! But thanks for reminding me!
I've just been really busy lately with work etc. and never got a chance to get a proper look until now.

I should have checked the bulb sockets back then; I would have had them ordered by now, probably even fitted..

Does the diode need to be there though? What would happen if it was removed?

[MML]

Jeff - that is an ingenious idea. All this time I was messing about designing keyrings and plugs for the cigar lighter socket, I should have been doing something like this!!
Keep us posted!

[Bitsyncmaster]

That is a capacitor on the Hazard switch. Don't know why they put a cap on there but it would not cause your problems unless it's shorted (unlikely). Your side lights do not flash with the hazard lights on unless you do some modifications to the stock set up.

Diodes have pins on the ends, the caps have potted wires.

[jawn101]

For what it's worth, I did not really like the DMCH replacement side marker sockets. There's a very limited depth behind the fender for the socket and IMO the replacement was a really, really tight fit. Like the socket was OK but there was no room for the wires. I had to get a little creative with them. It could very easily be down to panel alignment in my case; the socket worked perfectly and fit perfectly into the marker itself. YMMV.

[WelmoedJ]

Martin:
Dave already corrected the assumption of the "thingy" being a diode: it's not.
He also explained what you could or couldn't do with it.
You could use a short wire to "bridge" the capacitor and see if the hazard lights work.

Also mind that if the small incandescent bulbs inside the main light and hazard switches didn't work previously, it's most likely the small LEDs won't either.
Some switches seem to have contact issues regarding the inside lights.
If you can "live" without them, proceed with the more important issues now.
You can always address the switch symbol lights at a more convenient time.

DrJeff:
Indeed the sockets for the sidemarker lamps are not of a proper size.
Using a metal lamp socket you also need to 'wrap' the socket in water-resistant material.
That helps to prevent rusting.

However the connection between socket and sidemarker lense must also be water-resistant.
Sealing that narrow area is tricky as you have to be able to remove the socket for lamp replacement.
The only material that seems to seal this area sufficiently is a silicone gel like stuff.
You surely don't want to use RTV or alike stuff at the connecting surface.

A better solution would be a wedge socket with the wires protruding from the side (an angled socket that would most likely be shorter).
But even then you need to solve the incoming moisture/water issue.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Think of a capacitor as a battery. It charges up and discharges very quickly. So you do not want to short circuit a capacitor since it most likely will short the circuit you are working on.

[MML]

I should have paid closer attention to the wiring diagram, I see now it clearly identifies it as a capacitor, 2.2uf. To be honest I'm not the best at reading those diagrams :-/
Anyway, I got a better look at it after taking the tape off, here is a better shot:

http://i.imgur.com/gGIrWmk.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7wiWOnN.jpg

I was going to order one up in the event that it is damaged, does anyone know a good place to order? Is there any particular spec to look for?
I'll try to get the existing one tested but I'd like a good one on standby.

I've ordered replacement lamp sockets as well so I should have them some time next week.

One more thing, I don't know if it's relevant, but there was a small mark on one of the pins of the hazard switch, like a spark / burn mark, it was on the second pin down on the left in this diagram, the one connected to the yellow and purple wires. Could that mean it touched against something it shouldn't?

http://i.imgur.com/CbKx5Y7.jpg

[Bitsyncmaster]

The capacitor is probably just for AM radio noise. You can just cut it off an not use one but I don't think it's causing your problem. That switch has a lot of wires. Don't know the logic diagram of the switch but my guess it it breaks and makes a few circuits to use the signal lamps. My guess would be your switch is bad. I would open it up and look at the contacts but not sure if your up that kink of work.

[MML]

I would open it up and look at the contacts but not sure if your up that kink of work.

I should be able to take it apart, putting it back together might be the problem! Ha ha.
Seriously though, I'll give it a go, I'm better with the likes of that than figuring out circuits! I opened up the old headlight switch a while back so this is probably similar.

Thanks Dave, you have the patience of a saint for putting up with my endless questions!

[MML]

I opened it up, here are a few pics - it looks alright inside, no damage. The dark stuff is grease. I was hoping it was the switch that was the problem, that way I could just order up a replacement and be done!

http://i.imgur.com/FytLOK0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZsZcE9g.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xveuHUu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/v89TLKi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jj1Hmsj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Xz3sKMQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MJ5KXrh.jpg

[Bitsyncmaster]

My guess was wrong.:sad30:

That switch looks pretty good. If there were problems with the grease you would see some burning. Maybe it will work when you plug it back in. But it looks like you will need to do some testing of the wires on the switch connector with the schematic for reference. I see fuse 4 and fuse 5 go to the switch.

[MML]

My guess was wrong.:sad30:

That switch looks pretty good. If there were problems with the grease you would see some burning. Maybe it will work when you plug it back in. But it looks like you will need to do some testing of the wires on the switch connector with the schematic for reference. I see fuse 4 and fuse 5 go to the switch.

It's not very often you're wrong Dave!!
Will get the testing done hopefully on Tuesday, a mechanic my brother works with is coming to look at it. He's somewhat knowledgeable about car electrics. I'll be showing him all the suggestions as well. Hopefully he'll be able to sort the headlight switch problem while he's at it.

Watch this space!!
And thanks again!!

[Ron]

Have you tried replacing the flasher unit?
Power for the turn signal or hazard lights comes from the flasher along the Light Green/Pink wire on the Hazard Switch. Since you have the switch apart, try putting power there and see if the turn signals work. If not, borrow a flasher out of another car and try it again. (Hearing it clicking does not necessarily mean it is passing power to the lights.)

[MML]

Have you tried replacing the flasher unit?
Power for the turn signal or hazard lights comes from the flasher along the Light Green/Pink wire on the Hazard Switch. Since you have the switch apart, try putting power there and see if the turn signals work. If not, borrow a flasher out of another car and try it again. (Hearing it clicking does not necessarily mean it is passing power to the lights.)

I actually ordered one from superbrightleds.com just last night, it's the one that can support leds in the side markers should I ever decide to go that road... won't hurt to have a spare even if the old one's ok. Besides it was only 12 dollars!

[MML]

I'm still waiting for my replacement flasher to arrive from SBL, but I managed to borrow another one in the meantime. Swapped them over, and yaaay, it works!! I now have my indicators/hazards back! :rock_on:
Took apart the old flasher this evening, can you spot the problem??

Big thanks to all who commented and offered suggestions.

Trying to track down the headlight problem now - have removed the centre console to investigate the wiring. Fingers crossed it'll be another simple fix!

http://i.imgur.com/I6YONdJ.jpg

[WelmoedJ]

Broken track (from the center pin downwards)?

[MML]

Broken track (from the center pin downwards)?

Well spotted!
There was even a little scorch mark on the plastic casing. I suppose the copper track could be repaired, but hey, I have a nice, shiny new one now instead!

[WelmoedJ]

I once repaired the wiper motor electronics of my Pontiac by replacing the burnt away tracks by resistor wire ends.
Saved me some 350 euro.
It's always advisable to firstly try and repair car electronics as most parts are costing a small fortune.

[MML]

as most parts are costing a small fortune.

Yes, and they soon add up :(

[Elvis]

Glad you found it :-)

And again - lots of guessing but in the end it was solved simply by taking a look at it.

Good work Martin :-)


Looks like there was too much current flowing over that trace ?!?
It worked as a fuse before the fuse could burn ?!?

[MML]

Glad you found it :-)

And again - lots of guessing but in the end it was solved simply by taking a look at it.

Good work Martin :-)


Looks like there was too much current flowing over that trace ?!?
It worked as a fuse before the fuse could burn ?!?


Yeah, that's not supposed to happen, is it?!?

I wouldn't have thought to replace it if Ron hadn't suggested it; it could be heard clicking when the button was pushed... but as he said, that didn't mean that it was sending power to the lights. Thanks Ron!