Running new speaker wiring

[Notifier]

Working on installing all new speakers and speaker wiring along with replacing the original Craig radio. The first thing I noticed was the old speaker wiring. How exactly did the factory wire up the speakers in these cars? I always assumed the speakers and wiring was original. And I would think the wiring would have been run along with the two bundles that go down the center console. But it seemed as though it was run in an almost afterthought way. Tucked up under the carpet, held in place with duct tape, fished around the front dashboard, etc. Unless the car was rewired at some point? But then I see no other indication of the original wiring.

Anyway, planning out how I am going to run the new wire. I figured I would run it in the behind the carpet, on the passenger side corner near center console. My original thought was run it along with the two bundles that follow the center console, but it seems like things are going to get a little tight in there adding a new set of wires along with a new antenna wire. Just wondering what others have done in this situation, maybe there is another path I’m overlooking? And how easy is it to pull off and reinstall the seat belt receivers? I was going to pull the one off to give me better access but don’t want to lose a bolt hiding behind it.

[jawn101]

Working on installing all new speakers and speaker wiring along with replacing the original Craig radio. The first thing I noticed was the old speaker wiring. How exactly did the factory wire up the speakers in these cars? I always assumed the speakers and wiring was original. And I would think the wiring would have been run along with the two bundles that go down the center console. But it seemed as though it was run in an almost afterthought way. Tucked up under the carpet, held in place with duct tape, fished around the front dashboard, etc. Unless the car was rewired at some point? But then I see no other indication of the original wiring.

Anyway, planning out how I am going to run the new wire. I figured I would run it in the behind the carpet, on the passenger side corner near center console. My original thought was run it along with the two bundles that follow the center console, but it seems like things are going to get a little tight in there adding a new set of wires along with a new antenna wire. Just wondering what others have done in this situation, maybe there is another path I’m overlooking? And how easy is it to pull off and reinstall the seat belt receivers? I was going to pull the one off to give me better access but don’t want to lose a bolt hiding behind it.

That's the original wiring method as far as I can tell - old black gaffer's tape along the center console :)

The seatbelt reciever (I assume you mean the end that the buckle "plugs in" to) is easy to remove. A single 17mm socket, nothing to lose. The nut for it is captive in the frame.

[Jonathan]

Right on. You're tackling pretty much the same project I am. Yea, the randomness of the wiring and black tape is all factory believe it or not. Pretty haphazard/after thought.

Here's a picture of the seat belt retractable unit spot where it bolts to behind the panels. No worry of losing any nuts on this bracket and like Jon said, the buckle receptacle part is similar. I took out the bolt on the connection on the door side and it has a collar/sleeve type thing that slid out with the bolt but I'm assuming it will be going back in with minimal effort. It definitely didn't seem like anything fell off behind when I undid it. I'm probably going to pull the seats out to do the job easier, and partly just because they haven't been out since I've owned the car and I'm curious what surprises might be under there.

17779

[Notifier]

That's crazy! It was almost like they forgot to include the speaker wiring with the design of the electrical system. At first when I started pulling it out I figured it was some job done by a DIY'er. Low gauge zip cord type wiring, just kind of taped up here and there, the best was the coil of extra I found wrapped up in a void behind the relay compartment. But then I got confused when I got to the connector behind the radio, the speaker wiring was rather well terminated in the connector, almost like it had never been touched. Well, it's all history now!

Thanks for the information on the seat belt receiver. Figured I'd ask someone before I just removed that bolt and heard that "THUD" form a nut falling into the void of who knows where!

[jfirios]

if your doing all the wiring and have everything out you might want to think about adding an amp or changing out all the speakers while your there. Then it would be wise to run all your signal wires, IE, RCA cables, speaker wires along the side of the tub either along the side where the door is or along the center console, and tape them down using new duct tape. Then depending on where the power for the amp and such will be going, you would want to run those cables on the opposite side of the car from where you put the signal wires. That will keep any power interference out of your sound. I know when i did my whole stereo rebuild, there was so much extra wire just thrown around and bundled together. It is always best to rip all that old crap out and start with good fresh wire. And use a decent gauge. It is worth the little bit more money to have proper wiring.

[Notifier]

Compete renovation on the audio system. New receiver, all new speakers, all new wiring with the exception of the battery and switched ignition wire, so don't worry. I'm actually going to try to re-use the windshield antenna. I listen to satellite radio anyway and have no use for an antenna. Figured I would hook the windshield antenna up just for giggles. About the only time I would use it anyway is to listen to the local radio station in some sort of emergency. I'm going to abandon the power antenna in the rear for now. Maybe another project down the road. I am running an antenna wire and power wire to the back just in case. No plans for an amp, but going to run an RCA cable to the back for future use.

[jfirios]

just make sure that you keep both power and signal wires if you want to pre run everything on opposite sides of the cars interior. you can see my stereo rebuild in the custom mod section of the forum.

[TTait]

I'm with you guys in spirit as far as separating power and signal runs for audio, but typically I think one might apply that to keeping low level signal wire (as in an RCA signal running to a remote amp) separated from a high voltage AC source.

It's more an issue when you have microphone lines that run parallel to 120/240/380/480 VAC. In architectural applications we would keep parallel runs 18"-36" apart.

That said, if its easy to do and you keep your wiring neat, it can't hurt, but I'm not sure it applies in this situation. Would it really matter in this case?

[David T]

It is good practice not to bundle tightly for long runs your input signal and power wiring. That said it really shouldn't matter all that much because the input cables are shielded and the power cables are DC. You also shouldn't run your signal and speaker cables tightly bundled together for long runs for the same reason. If you can, run your input signal cables on one side of the car and your power and speaker cables on the other side. If you are upgrading the speakers, receiver, amps, etc, you should run all new wiring. The original stuff is WAY undersized for anything modern. You can use the ignition power, that only tells the stuff the ignition is on. The power wiring should be run from as big a connection as you can do with it's own separate protection and filtering.
David Teitelbaum

[Notifier]

As a general rule of thumb, I always try to separate my power and signal wires. Low voltage is my lively hood. I've ran wiring through buildings for alarm systems, CCTV, networks, you name it. CCTV wiring was especially touchy. Keep that away from any voltage or you have problems! It's actually code where I live, low voltage and AC wiring must be separated by 6" and they check!

Anyway, I'm running all the power and speaker wires down the passenger side (9 wires total) and the antenna and line level signals down the drivers side. One, to keep that separation, but more important because the bundle of 9 was close to the limit to stay hidden.

[kobachi]

If you are upgrading the speakers, receiver, amps, etc, you should run all new wiring. The original stuff is WAY undersized for anything modern. You can use the ignition power, that only tells the stuff the ignition is on.

The original speaker wiring in my car appears to be 18ga, which is plenty for 3.5" speakers and maybe even the 4x10s in the back, if you're just driving from the head unit. (And if you're wiring up an amp, of course you're going to run new speaker wire.) What in particular are you suggesting is way undersized?

[1batt4u]

I am gonna change/upgrade my speaker wires, I also want to know what size gauge wire is good enough. I have the infinity speakers as mentioned on the other thread.

[Notifier]

I just ran regular 14 gauge for my speakers, nothing special. I am just running the speakers directly from the head unit and no amps involved. I'm not really a believer in that triple braided, oxygen free, Teflon coated, nonsense. Google "coat hangers as speaker wire".

[David T]

The original speaker wiring is very undersized by today's standards. Back in the day the original radio only put out 4 watts per channel so 18 Ga was adequate. Also the rear speakers share a common return, just about all modern units want separate returns for each channel or you will blow the output transistors. The power to the radio is also undersized and should be increased. The ignition power lead is only used as a signal so that is OK. Same for the antennae wiring. If you are upgrading the sound system, replacing the wiring is a very small part of what you will be doing anyway.
David Teitelbaum

[kobachi]

I am gonna change/upgrade my speaker wires, I also want to know what size gauge wire is good enough. I have the infinity speakers as mentioned on the other thread.

Infinity Kappas are 75W RMS, 75W @ 12V = 6.25A, so yes, I was wrong, *if you're running from an amp* you need to run at least 16 gauge, safer to run 14 or 12: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html. However, if you're driving directly from the headunit, it's unlikely the unit can put out much more than 50-60W total, so if you're not using an amp, I see no reason why you'd need to run new speaker wire.


Also the rear speakers share a common return, just about all modern units want separate returns for each channel or you will blow the output transistors. The power to the radio is also undersized and should be increased. The ignition power lead is only used as a signal so that is OK. Same for the antennae wiring. If you are upgrading the sound system, replacing the wiring is a very small part of what you will be doing anyway.
David Teitelbaum

Both the front and rear speaker pairs each have a common ground, but the speaker wires each have two conductors. It's not until just before the wiring harness that they are bridged. Just snip off the bridge and you can use it.

I also don't see the need to replace the power wiring. It looks to be 16 gauge, which is plenty for a head unit that can only put out 50W (50W / 12V = 4.16A)

[David T]

Depending on how anal you are, many high end shops will insist on running a separate power and ground wire just so they know it is direct and full gauge with a minimum of connectors and no loops. They also want no other loads on it and will add filter and surge caps depending on how big a load it is. Same for the speaker wiring. They also will use premium, finely stranded wire so it it will flex easily. All connections should use ring terminals and be soldered. You can get really pickyune about all of this or you can just reuse the original wiring. if you are spending a lot of money on fancy equipment, upgrading the wiring is a very small part of the whole installation. A top shop will make up a whole wiring harness just for the entertainment/nav/etc. A local hack shop will just cut up the wires and splice everything together and say it's good to go. Most customers never see the wiring anyway and won't spend the extra bucks for a good job as long he gets sound out of all of the speakers.
David Teitelbaum

[kobachi]

Depending on how anal you are, many high end shops will insist on running a separate power and ground wire just so they know it is direct and full gauge with a minimum of connectors and no loops.

Fair enough =) I would qualify myself as "mild-to-moderate" on the anal scale 8) But I'm also frugal when it makes sense to be. "High end shops" have a financial interest in selling you "high end" components that are excessively unnecessary for your application. We're not civil engineers trying to build bridges to 3x tolerances in order to protect lives, you know? All the local stereo shops in my area want $40-50 for a good quality 12' RCA cable -- or I can go to Amazon and get one for $11 with free shipping...

When someone is building a big system in a big car with big power, I think it's more warranted to build with big thick wires and whatnot. In a little DeLorean compartment, I'm not convinced.

[David T]

I agree with you that many shops will oversell the customer to make a job bigger so they can make more money and a lot of what I said IS overkill. Some people get passionate about their sound systems so overdoing is warranted as long as the customer is OK with it. In a Delorean overdoing the sound is ridiculous because of all of the road noise. If you are doing the work yourself and you are saving on the labor you can afford to overspend on the wiring because as a percentage of the budget the wiring is a very small part anyway. It certainly can't hurt to improve the wiring and if you are upgrading the system you don't want to have any problems in the future because of the wiring. From my experience many problems can be traced back to a problem with the wiring. An intermittent or a bad connection can cause all kinds of headaches. You don't want to damage your new expensive equipment because you cheaped out on some wiring.
David Teitelbaum

[kobachi]

I think you really hit it on the nose with that post. If someone wants to overspend on wiring, they should do so /knowing/ that it's overspending for the sake of quality and futureproofing, not because they think their car will melt if they use 18-gauge instead of 16-gauge on their 50W stereo =D

[kobachi]

I am gonna change/upgrade my speaker wires, I also want to know what size gauge wire is good enough. I have the infinity speakers as mentioned on the other thread.

http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf is a neat little calculator

[Starglider]

It would be silly to spend lots of money on the sound system without taking basic measures to reduce road noise e.g. wheel arch sound insulation.

[David T]

It would be silly to spend lots of money on the sound system without taking basic measures to reduce road noise e.g. wheel arch sound insulation.

I agree, and the same logic goes for upgrading the wiring.
David Teitelbaum

[kobachi]

It would be silly to spend lots of money on the sound system without taking basic measures to reduce road noise e.g. wheel arch sound insulation.

Any recommendations on what to use for this?

[Starglider]

Any recommendations on what to use for this?

I am using 3M Thinsulate AU 3002-2; black self-adhesive polyester/polypropylene matting. You can get off-brand stuff for about half the price but it's fairly cheap to start with (the DeLorean doesn't need as much compared to larger cars). Note that this is not recommended for the engine bay or radiator areas; should probably use high-temperature glass-fibre insulation if you're going to mat those areas.

[kobachi]

I am using 3M Thinsulate AU 3002-2; black self-adhesive polyester/polypropylene matting. You can get off-brand stuff for about half the price but it's fairly cheap to start with (the DeLorean doesn't need as much compared to larger cars). Note that this is not recommended for the engine bay or radiator areas; should probably use high-temperature glass-fibre insulation if you're going to mat those areas.

Does this attach behind the stainless or onto the fiberglass?

[Starglider]

Does this attach behind the stainless or onto the fiberglass?

In the wheel arches and roof box area, onto the fiberglass. You can also put it in the cabin under the carpet or on the rear bulkhead (I didn't have any insulation here at all; an existing car will have some but it may have decayed after 30 years). It might go under the stainless in other areas as well, not sure about the clearance for that (haven't tried).

[kobachi]

In the wheel arches and roof box area, onto the fiberglass.

So these go on the exterior in the wheel wells? Do you have any pictures of your installation?

[Starglider]

So these go on the exterior in the wheel wells? Do you have any pictures of your installation?

I have given up taking photos of the car with my cellphone, they always come out awful. I will try and remember to take a real camera next time.

[David T]

If you are going to add sound-deadening materiel be cognizant of the weight you may be adding. Some of these products are quite heavy and before you know it you could have a significant weight added to the already heavy car (in terms of HP to weight). Dynamat is one that is relatively heavy.
David Teitelbaum