How to Get Wings-A-Loft to Lock

[lazabby]

I'm working on getting my Wings-A-Loft working again. I'm got two problems. On my passenger door. After I took the panels off and did some adjustment, I tested the door to see if I could open the door. It opened fine. Since I didn't have the door panels on, I added that weight to the door and the door wouldn't open all the way. The door strut is weak so should I replace the door strut or is this an issue with the torsion bar?

Secondly, the doors will lock when I push the lock button on the key fob but they won't unlock. I can hear the door lock module in the fuse bock clicking twice but there is no action in the doors. Not even an attempt to unlock the doors. Is the door lock module going bad?

Shannon

[Cartman]

Hi, I don' own a delorean myselfe, so don't take my word 100% but i am a mechanic :) the door not opening all the way is most likely only the strut, not the torsion bar, as the torsion bar is actualy just a kind of spring, it works by twisting instead of compressing like a coil spring. And if it was broken, it would not take the wight of the dor, ofcourse It is posible that it's not ajusted corectly, if it is atal posible to ajust, but I would start by replacing the strut, as this is the cheepest, and easyest to try first. They are also the most prone to failiour.

The unlock not working soundts to me like a broken wire in the door, maby at e point where it hinges, as that point wil be getting moved every time you open and close the door, I see this in normal car dors all the time, and is not an uncommon fault. Normaly central locking works by just switching the polarety of the wires going to the lock actuator, bit if one is broken, it is posible that it finds grou d trough some other component when locking, but not when unlocking and the positive tryes to go trough the faiiled wire, it won't work. Again, I have no way of knowing this whitout seeing it, but it's a fairly normal problem, een in modern cars :)

Pleace ecscuse my por englis :)

Ope thos helps some :)

[Elvis]

Shannon, we tried to go thru this some years ago but you didn't even send me pictures of
the actual system.

The door lock ECU does not click twice, it's the remote unit - to let the bulbs flash twice !

It's also not a broken wire - at least that is unlikely, very unlikely.

The door lock module does not go bad ! the original relays suck - well - the design of how the
relay is driven sucks and leads to burned out solenoides in the doors. We have talked about that
more than once.

By pushing the relays manually you can test the solenoids, details can be found here in the forum
for sure at least 10 times.

If you want to repair it yourself - get the schematic and learn how to read it and learn how
that door locks system works. It is not hard but most people already have problems here.


Did you at least install the fuse that I gave you with the kit back then ?

Do the power locks work with the keys/switches or did you only test it with the remote ?

You know that both doors/switches need to be either be in locked or unlocked position so that
it can work ?

[lazabby]

Shannon, we tried to go thru this some years ago but you didn't even send me pictures of
the actual system.

The door lock ECU does not click twice, it's the remote unit - to let the bulbs flash twice !

It's also not a broken wire - at least that is unlikely, very unlikely.

The door lock module does not go bad ! the original relays suck - well - the design of how the
relay is driven sucks and leads to burned out solenoides in the doors. We have talked about that
more than once.

By pushing the relays manually you can test the solenoids, details can be found here in the forum
for sure at least 10 times.

If you want to repair it yourself - get the schematic and learn how to read it and learn how
that door locks system works. It is not hard but most people already have problems here.


Did you at least install the fuse that I gave you with the kit back then ?

Do the power locks work with the keys/switches or did you only test it with the remote ?

You know that both doors/switches need to be either be in locked or unlocked position so that
it can work ?

Elvis, Thanks for your comments. As I've mentioned before I'm not an electrical engineer and so I don't know how how to do electrical modifications to the module so I have not made the changes. Someone else did take a look at it and I think he did make changes. It was too many years ago for me to remember. He looked at the parts you sent. At the time we switch modules from his car and it still didn't work properly at that time. I need to re-test things again as it has been too many years.

[DrJeff]

Hi Shannon,

#1 - Probably the door strut, much smaller probability that the torsion needs adjusted. One of the items on my todo list is to adjust my torsion bars (and do the roof separation fix). I've already got the special hex ratchet piece, but I need to build the jig. Perhaps a torsion adjustment party is in order?

#2 - Probably best to establish first what the status of your Door Lock Modules and Solenoids are. There are a bunch of changes that could already be in place. If you've got the Wings-a-Loft system, that suggests that you've swapped the solenoids for the actuator kit from Toby. (As I understand the wings-a-loft kit, it needs to swap the solenoids for actuators to free up the 3rd wire -ground- for use with the new actuator that unlocks the door) Since the actuators use two wires instead of the stock three to the solenoids, Toby includes a small harness (inline with the stock wiring) that 'modifies' the stock 3 wire lock/unlock method to a 2 wire method. This involves two relays (I'm guessing one for unlock and one for lock, but I've never pulled it apart to check the wiring). When I lock/unlock my car I get two clicks, one relay clicking in the DLM and one relay clicking in the Toby harness. It sounds like you're getting the two clicks when you try to unlock the system, so that might suggest that the DLM and the relays in Toby's harness for actuators are working correctly.

[What I don't know is if the Wings-a-Loft system includes a replacement for the stock DLM. For the moment I'll assume it doesn't.]

... Now when I use my remote door lock/unlock fob I think (it happens quickly and I've got bad hearing) I hear 3 clicks. It sounds like a cascade of clicks followed by a satisfying clunk as the activators fire. There could be another relay in the remote door lock module. A good test would be to... 1) try unlocking the door with just the key (i.e. take the remote door lock unit out of the equation) and then 2) try unlocking the door with the remote key fob. If you hear one click with the door key (but no unlocking of the other door) and two clicks with the remote key fob, then the likely culprit is the relay in the Toby door actuator harness (sits in the fuse/relay area). With just the key method the first click would be the relay in the DLM. With the remote key fob, the first click would be in the remote key unit, and the second would be in the DLM.

... I just received in the mail a bulk packet of relays, so if you need one I've got some. For some weird reason the auto parts stores around here don't carry plain old relays. I've added about 4 to the stock wiring as part of my cabin rebuild.

[DeLorean03]

Not to raise any alarms, but I had the "not even trying to unlock symptom" when I installed my W.A.L. back in Nov-Dec 2012, and I did have a bad wire. The connectors underneath the T-panel were bad, and I had to remove the T-panel, clean, and re-tighten all those wires. I knew this because I did a continuity check from the wiring harness where the door lock module plugs in to the door wiring harness where the actuators plug in.

What this gentleman is doing starting at about 2:20, that is exactly what I did going from the door module wiring harness end to the door actuator wiring harness end. Wish I had some pictures so you could actually see it on the car, but that is what I did to verify if all my wire connections were good or not.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6SqGcXYmLw

Great piece of mind to know the connections underneath the T-panel are A-ok :thumbup:.

[DMC5180]

+1 On the probability you may have a bad connection(s) at the roof harness connector(s). It is possible for BOTH to be BAD (but seems pretty unlikely for BOTH to be bad connections at that particular location.

Several Years ago I helped a guy during a local tech session who was installing a Wings-A-Loft system. He could not get the Drivers door lock to actuator to function in one direction (I don't remember which way, not that it matters). A simple continuity/voltage test of the Door Lock harness connector and the corresponding wire in the relay compartment showed NO voltage. All we had was a simple 12V test light probe. Since the headliners were out of the car I probed(pierced) the interior harness at the point where it entered the roof structure. (12V present) This pointed to the ROOF/ DOOR harness connection. I pulled the T-panel and Access cover. I back probed the Interior side connector half (12V present) then back probed the Door side connector half(12v NOT present). I pulled the the connector apart and found that terminals of that one wire had signs of (Heat and Corrosion). After cleaning both terminals and tightening up the Female terminal it was FIXED.


There must be a common point for both doors in the UNLOCK circuit that has lost its connectivity.

[DMC5180]

One other thought, if I recall correctly, the W-A-L system relies on using Scotch-Lock wire taps in various locations. Those things are always suspect as far as I'm concerned.

[lazabby]

Here are pictures of the door module.1800818009

[lazabby]

I did some tests to see what works and doesn't work. With the key in either door, both doors will lock together. Using the key in the driver door to unlock, the driver door unlocks and the passenger door tries to unlock. It appears that one of the latches is releasing but not the other. When using the key in the passenger door, the door unlocks but the driver door will not. When using the key fob, both doors will lock. When hitting the unlock neither door will unlock but the passenger door again tries to unlock but it is not able to. From inside the car, using the unlock and lock levers in the doors have the same results. So locking is working fine in all situations, the unlock is not.

[Elvis]

The unlock signal must be constantly low to make it not react to the switches or the remote.

It's unlikely that two wires on two connectors in the roof with the same function (left and right door)
have the same problem and other wires don't.

Or - there should be a difference by unlocking it on the one door or the other.
I'm missing this information. All I read was - it doesn't work by remote ?!?
Does the rest work ? you don't need to be an EE to check that.

Using a multimeter and measuring some voltages is easy, non need to be an EE either.

A faulty inertia switch pulling the signal to low/GND could prevent it from unlocking,
but then it will never unlock both doors at once.


Isn't anybody close to Shannon who could help him with this stuff ? well, DMCH is close...

[lazabby]

The unlock signal must be constantly low to make it not react to the switches or the remote.

It's unlikely that two wires on two connectors in the roof with the same function (left and right door)
have the same problem and other wires don't.

Or - there should be a difference by unlocking it on the one door or the other.
I'm missing this information. All I read was - it doesn't work by remote ?!?
Does the rest work ? you don't need to be an EE to check that.

Using a multimeter and measuring some voltages is easy, non need to be an EE either.

A faulty inertia switch pulling the signal to low/GND could prevent it from unlocking,
but then it will never unlock both doors at once.


Isn't anybody close to Shannon who could help him with this stuff ? well, DMCH is close...

It doesn't unlock properly whether using key in the doors, key fob (Wings-A-Loft) or levers in door panel. I can check connection to inertia switch. A friend may be coming over later this week to help me work on it.

[DrJeff]

You could have a case for a straight forward application of the latch and lock procedure. It is easy to check, basically tightening up the rods to makes sure any pushes and pulls on the rods (from the key latch, door buttons, actuators) do everything their supposed to. The electronics may be trying but not being successful.

I would also recommend adding springs into the latch mechanism. I've got a photo somewhere of the location. I've got some spare springs from the time I did mine. The latch not returning to position has been associated with non-opening doors before.

[DMC5180]

Shannon,

Does your car have still have OE lock solenoids (CLUNK) sound or was it upgraded to the WAL actuators (shicka) sound. If you still have OE solenoids they could be weak. Its not uncommon.

[DeLorean03]

This is easy for me to say because it's not my money, but I upgraded my door lock module to DMCH's unit, my door solenoids to Toby's actuators, and THEN I installed W.A.L. When it comes to things like W.A.L., these are fancy dancy toys; I don't want 32 year old technology limping along and slowing W.A.L. down.

Do yourself a favor - eliminate the weak links if you can. The peace of mind knowing that your stuff is "up to date" instead of tinkering with 32 year old electronic parts is worth it, and I can say that as I installed DMCH's lock module, Toby's actuators and Toby's Basic Door Opening W.A.L. kit.

Hope that didn't come off as pompous. Sometimes the extra money buys a lot of peace of mind.

[Elvis]

The DMCH door lock module relies also on a GND-Signal to lock or unlock, exactly like
the 32 year old stuff you don't trust. How to simply update the 32 year old stuff can
be found, is cheap, easy and works - more than 50 cars overe here trust me and rely on it.
Last winter I modified more than 10 units and sent them back with a plug and play remote
system...and more are to come.

With burned solenoids (I have explained this at least 250 times now) none of the electronics can
force it to lock or unlock. I guy over here listened to me, rewound the solenoids with new copper
wire, had fun building something with LEGO and now it works again.
He's so proud about it, that he offers it to other member of the Delorean family.

Others have understood it now, too. When the 10A fuse burns - the solenoids are toast.
Again - a repetition...

[Cartman]

Stumbled across this yesterday. don't know if it might help you :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoyHekngwqo

[WelmoedJ]

I did some tests to see what works and doesn't work. With the key in either door, both doors will lock together. Using the key in the driver door to unlock, the driver door unlocks and the passenger door tries to unlock. It appears that one of the latches is releasing but not the other. When using the key in the passenger door, the door unlocks but the driver door will not. When using the key fob, both doors will lock. When hitting the unlock neither door will unlock but the passenger door again tries to unlock but it is not able to. From inside the car, using the unlock and lock levers in the doors have the same results. So locking is working fine in all situations, the unlock is not.

Using the key in a door forces the (mechanical) system in that door to locking/unlocking.
It also sends an electrical message to the other door to use that door's electrical system to follow the directions of the door in which the key was used.

Though these lock/unlock issues can have an electric problem source, they also can be mechanical related.
Therefore you also should check if the mechanical part is functioning proberply to support the electrical part.
I've seen many problems with the lock/latch being caused by mechanical misalignment/ill adjustment causing the belonging electrical system to fail or not function properly.

Take the door panels off of the problem door.
Check if the bell crank fingers make good contact.
If the contact is off position, firstly adjust the lock (and if necessary the latch) rods to make the bell crank fingers touch as intended in either position.

Thereafter, if you still have issues, address the electrical problems.

[David T]

If you are using the OEM solenoids they are suspect. All too often they *may* still work but very weakly because they have burnt windings. As Welomedj says, it is not all that difficult to rewind them or if you can't or won't, just replace them. To have a reliable system you have to go over everything and make sure it is all working 100%. That also includes any possible bad connections in the roof. It certainly can't hurt to go over the adjustments in the doors. The more times you do it the better it gets. If the doors do not manually open and close easily, don't expect the fancy electronics to fix that! To get the WAL system working right all of the mechanical stuff HAS to be perfect. That includes the torsion bar adjustment and if you have weak struts they should be replaced. And the anchor pins adjusted so the door glides open and closed without having to slam it!
David Teitelbaum

[lazabby]

I replaced the old solenoids with actuators.

[DrJeff]

You could have a case for a straight forward application of the latch and lock procedure.

Lock and Latch Procedure
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3562&d=1313336561

[Elvis]

It seems like you posted while I was typing so I didn't see your comments about unlocking...

OK, finally an important information.

This means there is some extra wiring and relays and crimp connectors hat could be bad.

It has enough force to lock -> enought current can flow, resistances are low.

It can't unlock - either it needs more power because of whatever it makes work harder,
or
it doesn't get enought current because somewhere is a resistance too high.
A bad relay, bad crimping, bad current thiev...I don't use that shitty stuff, if possible I solder.

[lazabby]

It seems like you posted while I was typing so I didn't see your comments about unlocking...

OK, finally an important information.

This means there is some extra wiring and relays and crimp connectors hat could be bad.

It has enough force to lock -> enought current can flow, resistances are low.

It can't unlock - either it needs more power because of whatever it makes work harder,
or
it doesn't get enought current because somewhere is a resistance too high.
A bad relay, bad crimping, bad current thiev...I don't use that shitty stuff, if possible I solder.

That's a good point. I'll see if I can dig out my wiring diagram to see which wires are for the unlock and replace the crimping with good connectors.

[lazabby]

DrJeff came over worked on the patient. We put in his door lock module first and the doors locked and unlocked normally. He replaced the relay controlling the unlock mechanisms and now the doors are unlocking normally. Thanks Jeff.

[Elvis]

Just to understand it 100%:


he replaced a relay in the original door lock ECU ?

or

did he replace one of the external extra relays that are needed for the solenoid replacements ?



BTW - glad you finally found it. Simple, wasn't it ? no T-panel, no cutting in the doors...

[DrJeff]

replaced a relay in the original door lock ECU ?

It was a dead relay (just on the unlock side) in the original Door Lock Module. It didn't look fused or have any arching residue that I could see. Once replaced everything worked fine. I did notice that the circuit board/soldering on Shannon's 1983 module looked a whole lot better that on my 1981 board.

For fun we tried the added spring in the latch mechanism fix (spring that pushes against the bellcrank and makes sure it returns to 'true' position) but I added too much resistance for the wings-a-loft. On my car (without the wings-a-loft) you do have to pull harder on the latch to get the door to open (resistance from the spring).

[lazabby]

Elvis, I think I will attempt to replace the other parts with the items you supplied and do the modification you designed.