Door Hell! Either not closing or refusing to open.

[flux3d]

Hi all. The long refurbish of 10719's interior is finally drawing to a close, but just as I'm about to get the car back onto the road after many hours of work two problems have reared their ugly heads.

The first is a problem with the inner seals. To re dye the interior trim and fit new carpets I removed both inner door seals. The passenger side was made up of three individual peices, so I decided to replace that one with a new one from Dave Howarth here in the UK. After putting them both on the passenger side door refused to close and catches on the top edge, near where the rear quarter interior trim meets the headliners. The drivers door is also very tight, even thoughts she same seal as was originally on the door. Both doors closed well before, especially the passenger side, which now is the worst!

Is there a direction the seals should go on, and would this make a difference? Is there a way I can sort where the seal pinches the frame? There was damage to the trim at this point, so it's not a new problem. Of course I've now repaired that same damage so I'd rather not have to do it again.

The other real nightmare problem is to do with the drivers side locking mechanism. All as fine, but suddenly yesterday while trying to fix the seal problem the door shut, but then refused to open again from the outside, as if it was locked. I had to get in through the passenger side and pull the release to get it to open again. Looking at the lock the "U" shaped latch that swings done seems to be very loose and getting in the way, locking the door.

Any ideas? I just want to get the doors working again and actually drive the car for once!

[Patrick C]

I just went through the same thing...here is my advice that helped align my doors better than they have ever been. Moderators: Maybe this post could be a sticky? Most owners will need to do this at some point and it took me 8 years to figure this out.

From DMCHelp 2006:


"There are no absolute measurements or resource for door adjustment. You just fool with it until it's right. It took the Irish about 2000 cars thru production to become consistent in door placement. Early cars, especially sub-1000 VINs, are notorious for their poor fit.
So far as the door seals, if they are shredding along the top where the headliners meet, the problem is likely the seal mounting angle, not the door fit. The front outside corner is usually the place. To correct this, pull the seal away from the fiberglass lip in the door opening. With a Dremel or other rotory file, grind out the excess material from the inner radius of the fiberglass molding along the lip. This will allow the seal to sit more upright and miss the headliner as it closes with the door.
Warren at DMC"

And in terms of aligning the door, Byrne Henninger's advice was priceless:


"We use the following procedure in aligning the door to the body.
1. Remove door strut
2. Pop door open
3. Remove striker pins
4. Remove outer door seals
5. Loosen door hinges
6. Apply small amount of oil above and below hinge bolts
7. Lower door slowly and let free fall last several inches (repeat free fall several times and close firmly by hand each time)
8. Tighten hinge nuts until just snug
9. Repeat #7
10. Repeat #8
11. Repeat #7 and # 8 until door hinge nuts show no movement then tighten each firmly
12. Lean against door and inspect alignment, repeat procedures #5, 7 and 8 if necessary
13. Set one striker pin at a time.
14. Striker pin adjusts in a rectangular box configuration: left/ right, up/down ( there are effectively six positions.)
15. Striker pin adjustment is trial and error but note you moves and result
16. Replace outer door seals flush and only barely above edge of fender. There is no need to slam doors.

NEVER DRIVE WITH DOOR OPEN, IT IS A SERVERE STRAIN ON DOOR AS WELL AS HINGE and causes misalignment"

I hope that helps. My doors are working flawlessly now!

[kings1527]

Hi all. The long refurbish of 10719's interior is finally drawing to a close, but just as I'm about to get the car back onto the road after many hours of work two problems have reared their ugly heads.

The first is a problem with the inner seals. To re dye the interior trim and fit new carpets I removed both inner door seals. The passenger side was made up of three individual peices, so I decided to replace that one with a new one from Dave Howarth here in the UK. After putting them both on the passenger side door refused to close and catches on the top edge, near where the rear quarter interior trim meets the headliners. The drivers door is also very tight, even thoughts she same seal as was originally on the door. Both doors closed well before, especially the passenger side, which now is the worst!

Is there a direction the seals should go on, and would this make a difference? Is there a way I can sort where the seal pinches the frame? There was damage to the trim at this point, so it's not a new problem. Of course I've now repaired that same damage so I'd rather not have to do it again.

The other real nightmare problem is to do with the drivers side locking mechanism. All as fine, but suddenly yesterday while trying to fix the seal problem the door shut, but then refused to open again from the outside, as if it was locked. I had to get in through the passenger side and pull the release to get it to open again. Looking at the lock the "U" shaped latch that swings done seems to be very loose and getting in the way, locking the door.

Any ideas? I just want to get the doors working again and actually drive the car for once!

I just went through similar upgrades, myself. When I put the new inner door seals in, both doors had a very tough time closing all the way. One of the major problems lies with the new rubber seal actually gripping on the door itself and not letting the door close.

Take a rag and some silicone spray and spray the rag with the silicone. Then run the wet rag all around the new inner seal. Also, run the rag along the major inner seal contact points on the door itself. It's self-explanatory when you look at where the rubber meets the door. This will cause the rubber to slide on the door and fit better. You might have to lube the seals and the doors two or three times. The big thing is to NO LONGER OPERATE YOUR DOOR ON THE NEW SEALS WITHOUT LUBING THE SEALS FIRST. This can cause the new seals to tear and then you'll have to replace them again.

Once everything slides into place better, the seals will start to create a minor memory and fit much better. I still have to take my doors in to DMC CA for an adjustment, but just by doing the above I'm about 90% there. It's been well documented that the doors were the most complicated aspect of the car during production, even necessitating its own little assembly line.

[flux3d]

cheers guys! Yeah, the silicone idea seems to be spot on. I've cut back the lip on the body where it seems to be pinching and this has made a great deal of difference. When I removed all the interior trim parts the window trim in this place had been damaged by constant friction with the door lip, so its not like its a new problem with the car. You can see that the body and door come far too close together at that point. Maybe I'll rebuild that lip section with new fibreglass.

As for the door alignment, when I remove the seal the passenger side door is perfectly aligned with the rest of the panels. If I moved hinges this will probably undo this alignment I imagine? Before changing the seals the passengers side closed perfectly. It was the drivers side that seemed to be the problem, always needing to be slammed to get it to shut correctly.

[David T]

Adjusting hinges is a last resort kind of thing. If they were never touched you should not touch them. You have to do it if the door was ever removed, that is about the only reason to touch the hinges. You probably WILL have to adjust the anchor pins. If they were adjusted to fit the old, dead, flattened seals they won't be right with new stiff seals. The new seals DO need copious amounts of silicone lube. Also clean the door where the seals touch and rub.
David Teitelbaum

[Patrick C]

Adjusting hinges is a last resort kind of thing. If they were never touched you should not touch them.

I think everyone will have a different opinion on this. Lots of things can bend, shift, or tweak over 30 years of use. If you can't get your doors adjusted perfectly adjusting the striker pins, Byrne's method of loosening the hinges first works wonders. And with the early cars, who knows if the hinges were ever adjusted correctly from the factory/QACs anyway during the learning curve of building/servicing them.

[flux3d]

Very true Patrick. The technique sounds pretty straight forward. I did have a try at loosening the bolts on the hinges but their quite tight. Either the PO torqued them up super tight or they have never been moved. Certainly the drivers side hasn't closed correctly since I got the car in December, so maybe that's the best place to start. I'll try the silicone, get the seals sorted then try out the pins. If there's any problems I try the hinges.

Either way great advice. sounds like a perfect trick to get the door spot on.

[DMC81]

I just went through the same thing...here is my advice that helped align my doors better than they have ever been. Moderators: Maybe this post could be a sticky? Most owners will need to do this at some point and it took me 8 years to figure this out.

From DMCHelp 2006:



And in terms of aligning the door, Byrne Henninger's advice was priceless:



I hope that helps. My doors are working flawlessly now!

What happens if you loosen the hing on the door to much will it cause a problem with the torsion bar?

[Patrick C]

What happens if you loosen the hing on the door to much will it cause a problem with the torsion bar?

You don't want to loosen the hinge too much. A few turns to loosen each 17mm bolt works fine.

[DMC81]

You don't want to loosen the hinge too much. A few turns to loosen each 17mm bolt works fine.

The bolts on the door, correct?

[Patrick C]

The bolts on the door, correct?

Correct.

[DMC81]

Correct.

Thanks, I really did a number on my driver door and I'm hoping that with some luck I can adjust it back to where it needs to be and it's something I have never done.

[David T]

The procedure mentioned will help only if the doors are close to proper adjustment. If any shims need to be added you cannot do it without removing the torsion bars (or at the very least removing all of the torsion). Time has no effect on the adjustment of the doors. If they were never messed with you are probably not going to be able to adjust them any better and in all likelihood you will just make things worse. Once you loosen the hinges you may never get the doors to close correctly, especially if you do not have a lot of experience. Also keep in mind those doors are HEAVY! Once you loosen the hinges the doors may move in ways you do not want and cannot control. It can also take a LOT of time getting the door hinges adjusted just the way you want. It is a trial-and-errror kiind of thing and that kind of tinkering always takes a LOT of time.
David Teitelbaum

[DMC81]

The procedure mentioned will help only if the doors are close to proper adjustment. If any shims need to be added you cannot do it without removing the torsion bars (or at the very least removing all of the torsion). Time has no effect on the adjustment of the doors. If they were never messed with you are probably not going to be able to adjust them any better and in all likelihood you will just make things worse. Once you loosen the hinges you may never get the doors to close correctly, especially if you do not have a lot of experience. Also keep in mind those doors are HEAVY! Once you loosen the hinges the doors may move in ways you do not want and cannot control. It can also take a LOT of time getting the door hinges adjusted just the way you want. It is a trial-and-errror kiind of thing and that kind of tinkering always takes a LOT of time.
David Teitelbaum

Thanks for the tips Dave, When I got my car late last fall it was not running and when I was working on it I would roll it by hand in and out of the side of the house and one day when I rolled it forward with the door up...(yes I know very dumb but hard lesson learned) and it caught the wood fence post and the door is now way out of line. It will still shut but it's hard. I do not see any bends or creases and the glue around the door skin still looks intact. so maybe it just pulled it out of alignment??

[Patrick C]

you loosen the hinges the doors may move in ways you do not want and cannot control. It can also take a LOT of time getting the door hinges adjusted just the way you want. It is a trial-and-errror kiind of thing and that kind of tinkering always takes a LOT of time.
David Teitelbaum

I spent about 30 minutes per door. They have never worked better than they do now. Absolutely perfect.

[David T]

If the door got bent you will never get it to open and close properly unless you reweld it to stiffen it again. Even if you do get it to open and close it will not stay that way since the door is no longer stiff enough to hold it's alignment. If, when you open the door and grab it by the lower edges, it feels loose and floppy, you must stiffen it up to make it work correctly. A local owner took his car out to wash it. The battery was low and he couldn't restart it so he pushed it back into the garage. He forgot to close the driver's door. It was never the same. He wound up finding a door in FL and got someone who was driving through to bring it to him here in NJ. He never put it on. I think he sold the car but maybe he still has the door.
David Teitelbaum

[DMC81]

If the door got bent you will never get it to open and close properly unless you reweld it to stiffen it again. Even if you do get it to open and close it will not stay that way since the door is no longer stiff enough to hold it's alignment. If, when you open the door and grab it by the lower edges, it feels loose and floppy, you must stiffen it up to make it work correctly. A local owner took his car out to wash it. The battery was low and he couldn't restart it so he pushed it back into the garage. He forgot to close the driver's door. It was never the same. He wound up finding a door in FL and got someone who was driving through to bring it to him here in NJ. He never put it on. I think he sold the car but maybe he still has the door.
David Teitelbaum

I have looked the door over as good as one can and it has no signs of being bent and it feels just as firm as the passenger side. Is it possible the hing just got shifted out of adjustment? I was thinking it wouldn't hurt to try and adjust the hing some and see what happens. What do ya think?

[DMCMW Dave]

One thing to remember that David T was alluding to is that the door skin is not only crimped to the frame, it is glued. If you broke the glue bond (very likely) the skin will shift on the frame of the door, and it will seem to drift in and out of alignment as it moves. The repair in this case is a series of spot welds (with the door lifted from underneath to remove the gravity stress) where the skin joins the door, or replace the door.

[DMC81]

One thing to remember that David T was alluding to is that the door skin is not only crimped to the frame, it is glued. If you broke the glue bond (very likely) the skin will shift on the frame of the door, and it will seem to drift in and out of alignment as it moves. The repair in this case is a series of spot welds (with the door lifted from underneath to remove the gravity stress) where the skin joins the door, or replace the door.

I checked the door skin and I cant see any obvious problem in the glue but I'm sure it may not be that simple. So do I attempt to adjust the hing so I can determine if it is more than just out of alignment from the hing? whats the best process of elimination for this?

[DMCMW Dave]

I checked the door skin and I cant see any obvious problem in the glue but I'm sure it may not be that simple. So do I attempt to adjust the hing so I can determine if it is more than just out of alignment from the hing? whats the best process of elimination for this?

Open the door all the way. Put your finger across the seam typically at the back of the door about level with the bottom of the window. Have an assistant lift the front of the door a bit, i.e. try to open it farther than it really wants to go. If it's loose you'll see/feel the two metal surfaces slide separately from each other.

[DMC81]

Open the door all the way. Put your finger across the seam typically at the back of the door about level with the bottom of the window. Have an assistant lift the front of the door a bit, i.e. try to open it farther than it really wants to go. If it's loose you'll see/feel the two metal surfaces slide separately from each other.

Ill try this tomorrow, if its solid, then what?

[DeLorean03]

I spent about 30 minutes per door. They have never worked better than they do now. Absolutely perfect.

Next time I see you, we're doing my driver's door - please (: .....

Outside, it shuts great. Inside......hmph.

[Patrick C]

Next time I see you, we're doing my driver's door - please (: .....

Outside, it shuts great. Inside......hmph.

Sure! :)

[flux3d]

Checked my doors for the separation problems. All seems good thank god! Got me worried then. I did sort out the problem with the drivers door locking shut. The outer handle wasn't moving the latch on the lock far enough, whereas the inner handle seems to have more range of movement, thus allowing it to disengage the latch when the door was closed. God knows why it has decided to lay up, but a quick look inside the door revealed the threaded adjustment on the pull rod for the release mechanism. It was a simple process of some release fluid and adjustment and the door opens and closes even better than before! The striker pins still need work, but all seems fairly good on the alignment. Maybe need a little bit of re alignment here and there. I think the PO has messed about with this door.

Another day, another new thing learnt about the DeLorean. I'm sure it has a mind of its own and just feels like testing me sometimes. The adjustment screw looked like it had never been moved, so who knows how it managed to go out of wack!

[sdg3205]

I used the Byrne procedure today with great results. My door was baaaaad. For me, the new rear interior trim panel wasn't flush enough, which meant the weather stripping was sticking in too much, which grabbed the b-pillar trim on the door, which caught on the headliner etc etc.

I used 3m black weather stripping glue and some clamps to help hold that piece on flush. It's great stuff because a little heat will help it let go, and its flexible.

Here's hoping 2510 has good alignment when all is said and done.

[jawn101]

See where was all this great info when I was trying to figure out how to get my passenger side door latching completely?

Dave, wanna drive south and show us all how you did it? :)

[DMC81]

Open the door all the way. Put your finger across the seam typically at the back of the door about level with the bottom of the window. Have an assistant lift the front of the door a bit, i.e. try to open it farther than it really wants to go. If it's loose you'll see/feel the two metal surfaces slide separately from each other.


Dave, I finally got out to my car to try this out and the door it's self seem very solid. I did as you said and nothing moved at all or as from what I could see. If the glued joints and welds are still in tact would the next step be to try and adjust the doors from the hinge bolts on the door? Thanks.

[David T]

If you are certain the door is solid but way out of alignment your next step is to decide which way it has to move. Once you know what you are going to do you you remove the torsion bar and loosen the hinges to move the door. Take the anchor bolts out and close the door. Adjust the hinges till you are happy with the alignment. Once you have it where you want it reinstall the torsion bar and then install and adjust the anchor bolts, one at a time.
David Teitelbaum

[DMC81]

If you are certain the door is solid but way out of alignment your next step is to decide which way it has to move. Once you know what you are going to do you you remove the torsion bar and loosen the hinges to move the door. Take the anchor bolts out and close the door. Adjust the hinges till you are happy with the alignment. Once you have it where you want it reinstall the torsion bar and then install and adjust the anchor bolts, one at a time.
David Teitelbaum

Thanks for the info Dave, I'm nervous about messing with it at all but I will take it slow and see what I come up with this coming weekend.

[sdg3205]

Well I spoke too soon.

The door fit decently until I put the weather stripping back on and now it's ass again. If I really slam it I can get it to fully close, otherwise I just get it to the first latch position.

[jawn101]

Well I spoke too soon.

The door fit decently until I put the weather stripping back on and now it's ass again. If I really slam it I can get it to fully close, otherwise I just get it to the first latch position.

This is my big plan for the weekend too, Dave - remove the outer seal from my passenger door and see what happens. I put new ones on a while back and I know I did a shit job, since you can see them peeking through the seams. I have nice new self-adhesive ones on hand from DPI so I just plan to do a quick and dirty, grip-n-rip and see if my alignment is corrected.

[sdg3205]

This is my big plan for the weekend too, Dave - remove the outer seal from my passenger door and see what happens. I put new ones on a while back and I know I did a shit job, since you can see them peeking through the seams. I have nice new self-adhesive ones on hand from DPI so I just plan to do a quick and dirty, grip-n-rip and see if my alignment is corrected.

Cool man! I'm going to take one last shot at it and if I can't get a decent fit ill have Toby look at it when he replaces the windshield in a few weeks. I have a feeling the roof has sunken a bit on the passenger side which is causing some fit and finish issues.

Let us know how it goes!

[flux3d]

At the weekend I went back to the dreaded door seals and have made some progress, mainly on the drivers side. I used a nylon hammer to "tap" the seal down, which makes sure the seal goes right down on the under body. I also made sure that the seal was angled away from the door opening at all points, which again helped. This certainly helped with the drivers side. The passenger side is another thing. The door managed to damage the seal in two places. In the end I had to cut the seal to create a short "section" where the door was catching, which meant the seal would flex out more. Not very good at all and i'll probably be buying a new seal pretty soon.

At least the doors shut......:bash:

[DMC81]

Well I spoke too soon.

The door fit decently until I put the weather stripping back on and now it's ass again. If I really slam it I can get it to fully close, otherwise I just get it to the first latch position.

Dave, sounds like a never ending story with the doors on these cars once they are out of wack. I really dont want to loosen my hinges but I guess no pain no gain...lol

[David T]

There are metal clips inside the seal and you have to beat the seal on all the way with a stick, a wooden mallet, a nylon hammer, etc to get it to bottom out all the way. Not doing that WILL cause you all kinds of problems trying to get the door closed. The ends are supposed to be at the front by the door switches. Use a short piece of rubber vacuum tube inside the ends to make it stiffer and hide the joint. After you get the seal on wipe it and the door with some silicone lube on a rag to make it all slide or the rubber can rip. I have seen where the seal fits so tightly that when you open the door the seal grips the door and finally tears without silicone lube. Especially a new seal, they seem a little sticky sometimes.
David Teitelbaum

[jawn101]

Cool man! I'm going to take one last shot at it and if I can't get a decent fit ill have Toby look at it when he replaces the windshield in a few weeks. I have a feeling the roof has sunken a bit on the passenger side which is causing some fit and finish issues.

Let us know how it goes!

OK, I finally had a little time so here's what I found.

I removed my rear outer door seal. It was sort of a mess anyway. It is now a much bigger mess. I love that 8008 adhesive when I want things to stick, less so when I want them to come off.

That didn't help the latch engagement or fit at all. Crap.

So I removed the inner door seal - just peeled the sucker right off. I have the ones with the integral metal channel, none of the tiny clips - so it's easy to remove and replace. This helped with the door fit quite a lot. A feather touch still engaged the front striker to the second position and the rear one to only the first, but a normal "slam" engaged both positions in the rear. I am confident that could be corrected with some more pin futzing.

OK, so it's the inner door seal causing problems. I laid it back in place and pounded the ever loving bejeezus out of it with a rubber mallet all the way around, making sure it was fully seated. I then rubbed dielectric grease around the entire perimeter with a rag.

It's closing better now. Not perfect but better. Still requires a bit of force to get the rear latch to engage to the second position. So I'm feeling more confident that the hinges don't need adjustment, but the question is - now what? I have a spare inner seal laying around the garage, should I just replace the whole thing? Is there more to try before I do that?

[sdg3205]

So last night after trying to align the passenger door another 5 times I finally lost it, tore the weather stripping out of 3205s PERFECTLY aligned passenger door and put it into 2510. The door opened and closed absolutely perfectly! I was so happy because I was starting to worry a larger defect was hiding somewhere.

Then I put the new weather stripping in 3205's previously perfect door. Door wouldn't close. FML. I figure I have a better shot getting it to work in 3205 though because the seams are thinner: original head liners are thinner material, better fit of the original trim panel etc.

Here's hoping.

[jawn101]

Stupid door seals. I'm gonna try that new one on the passenger side and see if it helps. If it doesn't, I may have to do something like chalk the seal to see where it's rubbing on the door, then grind down the fiberglass a bit in that area to get a better fit. I'd really, really, really rather not do that though.....

[cpistocco]

So last night after trying to align the passenger door another 5 times I finally lost it, tore the weather stripping out of 3205s PERFECTLY aligned passenger door and put it into 2510. The door opened and closed absolutely perfectly! I was so happy because I was starting to worry a larger defect was hiding somewhere.

Then I put the new weather stripping in 3205's previously perfect door. Door wouldn't close. FML. I figure I have a better shot getting it to work in 3205 though because the seams are thinner: original head liners are thinner material, better fit of the original trim panel etc.

Here's hoping.

I have had similar problems....
I have found that moving the doors out helps the problem...
ps I, too am in pursuit of raised white letter tires....found bf Goodrich radial ta....