Has anyone tried one of these to replace the rubber steering column bushing?

[Jeff K]

Has anyone ever tried a ball joint swivel bearing (spherical bearing) to replace the rubber steering column bushing? I found this while checking out out a few items on mcmasters site.

If we can figure out a way to mount it, it seems like a great solution. I'm guessing this is the way cars mount it now. (again that's a guess).

Here is a link
http://www.mcmaster.com/#rod-ends/=mc0t2s

Jeff

[Nicholas R]

That's kind of a neat idea. All we'd have to figure out is how to get it into the pedal box. The one that the slot would probably be ideal, but I don't see how those are installed. I can't imagine you can just press them in.

[Jeff K]

That's kind of a neat idea. All we'd have to figure out is how to get it into the pedal box. The one that the slot would probably be ideal, but I don't see how those are installed. I can't imagine you can just press them in.

That one looked good to me too. I was thinking making some type of bracket for it and mounting it countersunk in the pedal box.

I have a 5 speed pedal box I bought from someone. I can use that to mock up something since it's out of the car. I really like this idea.

Nick, is this how modern cars mount the steering column?

Jeff
PS - everyone.. click "Ball Joint Swivel Bearings" On the top left. It doesn't not allow me to link directly.

[David T]

The rubber bushing (or nylon) has a little 'give" to it so you don't feel every vibration. It also allows for slight misalignment. A spherical bearing has no allowance for misalignment. It is also more expensive. The rubber lasts for over 20 years. A spherical joint would not without regular lubrication. Just because you <can> improve something doesn't mean you should.
David Teitelbaum

[Dangermouse]

These are swivel bearings, so there is a certain amount of misalignment permitted

http://images2.mcmaster.com/Contents/gfx/small/63195kc1s.png?ver=24336014

from:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#rod-ends/=mc2dwq

They even have lubrication free SS 303 units.

[Jeff K]

The rubber bushing (or nylon) has a little 'give" to it so you don't feel every vibration. It also allows for slight misalignment. A spherical bearing has no allowance for misalignment. It is also more expensive. The rubber lasts for over 20 years. A spherical joint would not without regular lubrication. Just because you <can> improve something doesn't mean you should.
David Teitelbaum

I get the vibration dampening with rubber. I'm sure no modern car does it this way. When I hold the wheel of my other cars, it gives a rock solid machined feel. The D does not.

Also, In my D, have a vibration dampening u-joint setup (borgeson).

No matter how tight the rubber bushing is, the weight of the moving/bouncing mass of the steering column makes it move and (IMHO) introduces shimmy and vibration.

Check this part out.
18227

From jegs. it's not the correct size, but the idea rocks. if they make a fitting size, I'll try it and report back.

[Ryan King]

I will be monitoring this thread

[David T]

No modern car that I am familiar with does the steering column this way. I agree it could stand to use some improvement but if all of the parts are in good shape and and you do not have any excessive vibration it is OK. If you are going for improvement in the steering, consider adding power steering.
David Teitelbaum

[Nicholas R]

No modern car that I am familiar with does the steering column this way. I agree it could stand to use some improvement but if all of the parts are in good shape and and you do not have any excessive vibration it is OK. If you are going for improvement in the steering, consider adding power steering.
David Teitelbaum

Why do you keep trying to talk him out of this? It's his car. If he wants to give it a shot, let him give it a shot. This isn't something that is going to cause an accident or some other unsafe driving condition. People drive without steering column bushings all the time. We should encourage innovation and improvements. If every time someone tried to make improvements, the rest of us kept telling them that what we have is fine and not to worry about it, we'd never get anywhere!

I for one am very intrigued by this idea and would like to see what Jeff comes up with! Best of luck!! :thumbup:

[Ryan King]

I really hope this works. I hate how much the wheels on these cars vibrate. I have replaced the steering bushing in mine and saw little improvement.

[LEVY]

Why do you keep trying to talk him out of this? .................

Because it was not his idea. Not matter what you do or say, you will not change him.

O.P wanted to improve some part but he recommend to replace something else instead, so using his way of thinking I will recommend the O.P. to replace the air in his tires for nitrogen , more stability.

LEVY

[Jeff K]

I appreciate all the input everyone. David, I hear what you're saying. I always read your posts and you have helped me directly or indirectly many times.

I just have a bug in me to try this mod.

Since I already bolted a fender washer to my pedal box, I did this half way already. As I mentioned in previous posts, the PO let the bushing go so long the hole got reamed out. I'm estimating 4mm for the steering column bushing. The fender washer brought this back to 20mm. It was as tight as I think you could get with a rubber item. It's still not that good. I bet if most owners took a caliper to the steering column hole, they will find out it's been reamed out too. it was in both of my cars. (one of my cars was a Texas rebuild too)

I have replaced every single moving component of my suspension. (steering rack, bushings, ball joints, bearings, new tires, rims balanced and checked twice. etc). I sent my LCA's out to be boxed. I'm using ed's LCA braces. Torqued everything to spec. It has never driven so nice... but... there is still too much vibration in the column.

The inertia of the heavy steering column on that rubber part causes shimmy and vibration, again this is my opinion.

Since I have a pedal box out of a car and available to me, I can make a mock up way easier then on the car itself.

Does anyone have the diameter of the column at the place it protrudes through the bushing? I can unbolt mine and measure, but what a pain!

Jeff

Worst case, more vibration. I can't see it causing a safety issue.

I'm by nature a lazy guy, if I'm looking to do this.. it's a big deal for me! :woot:

[Nicholas R]

Does anyone have the diameter of the column at the place it protrudes through the bushing? I can unbolt mine and measure, but what a pain!


The column shaft diameter is 9/16"

I know this because I recently replaced my intermediate shaft and u-joints with the Borgeson setup and had to buy the 9/16" - 36 spline u-joints.

[jawn101]

The column shaft diameter is 9/16"

I know this because I recently replaced my intermediate shaft and u-joints with the Borgeson setup and had to buy the 9/16" - 36 spline u-joints.

I'm seeing more and more people with these vibration isolating joints, do they really make a big difference? I have a nice new intermediate shaft setup from Martin at DCUK that works great, but I'm keenly interested in making the D more comfortable to drive. Taking some of the shake out of the wheel would go a long way.

[David T]

I did not mean to try to "talk you out" of trying different things. I am all for experimentation but IMHO this is not an improvement. Besides, if my typing a few words can change your mind, you weren't really serious about doing it anyway. You should not be having that much trouble with your steering column. I understand you replaced a lot of parts. Maybe something is bad or installed improperly? As for experimenting with the steering, I consider it a Primary Control system. If ANYTHING goes wrong with it, even for a second, it can cause a deadly accident. I had a car once (not a Delorean) that the steering would stick as you drove and turned the wheel. It was scary, you always had the feeling it would get stuck and not turn. On other cars where the steering was very loose you always felt you couldn't keep the car under control and stay in the lane. All I am saying is you have to be really careful when doing anything that can affect the steering system. The Heim joint can take some misalignment in certain directions and then only a small amount. You must make very sure you NEVER exceed the capacity of the joint or it will bind and break. They are very popular in aircraft but they must be very carefully selected and installed. Also consider that the inner shaft of the steering column must be able to collapse in an accident and that the whole column adjusts up and down. As with any modification you must consider ALL variables before making any changes. Don't let this post dissuade you, just consider all of the consequences before making changes. No, I did not dismiss this "out of hand" because of the "It wasn't invented here" syndrome.
David Teitelbaum

[Farrar]

vibration isolating joints

Sorry if this is a silly question, but is that the same as a "rag joint" or is it something different?

[Nicholas R]

I'm seeing more and more people with these vibration isolating joints, do they really make a big difference? I have a nice new intermediate shaft setup from Martin at DCUK that works great, but I'm keenly interested in making the D more comfortable to drive. Taking some of the shake out of the wheel would go a long way.

I actually don't have the vibration insulating joint, I just have 2 standard u-joints. I just have the 2 identical u-joints and the SS shaft between them. Both u-joints are 9/16"-36 on one side and 3/4"-36 on the other, and the shaft between is 13".

[Ron]

Sorry if this is a silly question, but is that the same as a "rag joint" or is it something different?

Pics of all of the above here (http://www.ididitinc.com/retrofit_columns/mustang_tilt_column_fs68_69.html) (near bottom of page).

[Farrar]

Pics of all of the above here (http://www.ididitinc.com/retrofit_columns/mustang_tilt_column_fs68_69.html) (near bottom of page).

Thanks, Ron! Those are indeed quite different!

[Ryan King]

Any updates?

[DrJeff]

I wonder if TCF40*-09 would work as a replacement for the steering bushing.

On this page http://pobcoplastics.com/bearingsrollers/paramount-trimount-center-bolt-flanges.htm

[Mark D]

I wonder if TCF40*-09 would work as a replacement for the steering bushing.

On this page http://pobcoplastics.com/bearingsrollers/paramount-trimount-center-bolt-flanges.htm

In theory it looks like it should work but I don't know if it would package where the current bushing fits. You'd have to take a few measurements around the hole in the firewall (or whatever you want to call it). It looks like the bolt circle diameter would be too large on the TCF40-09 to fit in the recessed area where the bushing normally fits. There would also be clearance concerns to the clutch master (if you have a manual trans). Mounting to the outer surface of the plate instead of the inner wouldn't be much better either since the mounting plate is recessed into the surrounding fiberglass.

With some modification you could probably get it to work but you'd probably be stuck with it and unable to go back to the old bushing design.

If the rubber design of the DMCH bushing is what's turning you off I think one of the other vendors offers a delrin bushing.