Issues with a vendor, missing property and faulty work.

[Mydmc5898]

My dealings with DPI.

I'm sure many of you have seen my epic battle to return my car to the road. Initially this started with my own attempt at an EFI conversion.
Initially successful, I turned the car over to a local tuning shop to have them tune the car.
At one point the car stopped running. The motor was at fault.
One option the shop had given me was a possible engine swap with a transmission swap as well, or rebuild my own engine.

When I posted this on DmcTalk.com back in 2009. Josh Bengston had contacted me. He offered to look at my car and get the 3.0 motor running and tuned. First however he would do a very detailed inspection. He requested that I send all items with the car, so I did as instructed. Being I had just placed the motor in the car it had all new sensors, new engine cover (Eagle), with the Delorean badge, and my laptop.

A customer I had at Firestone agreed to transport my car to and from Ohio. The full charge (being that I knew him) was $600. And he wouldn't charge me for the return trip.
Once my car arrived at DPI in February of 2010 I was sent an email by Josh a few weeks later with the condition of the car. He gave me an estimate for the motor, tuning, EDIS system, coolant system overhaul, and misc jobs such as the oil change and wiring.
I agreed to this, with the understanding I couldn't pay the full bill up front. So our agreement was I would pay whatever I could each month until I could secure full payment.
The first year Josh was very quick to get back to me about progress of my car, he even called me to report in that summer of 2010 he had the wiring sorted out.
I made sure that he knew to only do what I could afford that month.
Due to some health issues that arose with a family member. I had to stop having the car worked on. Because of this I asked Josh if he wanted me to transport the car out of his shop so it would not be in the way. He declined.
So since the car was taking up space I offered to pay $200 a month storage, to which Josh agreed.


Unreturned messages and unreturned phone calls began to happen very often at this point.
I applied for a loan in the fall of 2011, and sent Josh an email saying that within a week I should have a verdict on what they would give me. In this time Josh said the car would also need a brake overhaul in order to safely drive the car, to which I agreed. If this attempt at a loan did not go through I would figure out another form of payment or if the car could be returned, I would take it incomplete
and return it once I was able to afford the payments. Keeping in mind the only work done was what was paid for and no more. Josh agreed to these terms.


That fall (same week as the bank) I received a message on Facebook from Josh demanding the remaining balance be paid. I went back and forth with Josh on Facebook since I was right in the middle of the loan. I would have an answer on Monday but he wanted full payment before the weekend. Another option was if I gave him my car. He also said if the car was to stay there be was changing the terms to $50 a day to hold the car.
Those terms were unacceptable.

When I asked just to have my car turned over not finished he said he could not do that, breaking yet another agreement. When I inquired as to why, he stated that I still owed several thousands of dollars for completed work.
This confused me because I said to only do what I paid for.

Once I was given approval for the loan I immediately contacted Josh and sent him the remaining funds to finish the car. He assured me that the car would be finished before January of 2012. Therefore, I had arranged a pick up date for the first week of 2012.
I made several calls the week before with no answer.
The second week Josh called me back and stated the car wasn't done and needed some extra time. Being in the auto repair field, I was understanding. He also stated the AC compressor was locked up and needed to be replaced. Since I now had funds, I said to do all work that needed to be completed, as long as the car is running.
The next date the car would be ready would be March of 2012. In this time Josh had ignored most of my phone calls, as I had yet to receive an invoice for the AC compressor.
Once Josh got back to me, he said the engine which he installed and ran in my car ( keep in mind he stated he installed and ran an engine in my car) that this motor was no good as well.
Working at a garage myself I understand hang ups happen.
Josh said he would replace that engine and call me as soon as it was done.
I didn't hear back for some time. After repeated phone calls
he had told me that his shop was broken into. Tools and a trailer were stolen. Another excuse was a film crew had held up work at his shop as well.
At this point it was mid 2012 and the car was suppose to be returned January, March, May, June, July. Now The end of the summer is when it would be done. Josh had asked me if he could replace the suspension as well. At this point I said no, and wanted the car fished since I had to turn my other car in to the garage for much needed work.
I said I just want to have the car running and tuned and I would take care of the laundry list of safety issues.
Josh agreed.
After failed attempts at getting a hold of Josh I sat and wrote a long letter saying it was best to have the car returned and we would work out the difference in cost.
I stated I would have the car finished somewhere else since I am now not only working but in school.
Josh got back to me immediately and said the second motor he put in was also no good. So he now claimed the vehicle would be finished in December of 2012. I said I would give him until January 2013 and I would be out to get it.
If it was not finished I gave Josh several ways to work this out.
I arrived to pick the car up in January of 2013, to find it not only NOT running, but also lacking the majority of wiring.
Josh said he would send me a new invoice justifying the cost of the total of $13,000.

Once I got the car back home (which cost me $300 since the person who first took it out could not bring it back)
We went through the entire car, and as Josh admitted the wiring was not completed.
Josh also said he would help me with getting the car put back together. He also said he would replace my laptop since he lost mine, and replace my trunk carpet since it was missing.
After spending hours following Josh instructions he left taped to several wires, we tried to start the car and immediately it shut down.
We found the majority of ground wires weren't attached to anything they were hidden along with other sensor wires under tape in the harness which we had to rebuild . So this blew up out the ECU. For his negligence he replaced the ECU at his cost with one that had a marked up case and missing serial number. Although he claimed the one I sent back as able to start and run a car.
In the meantime he sent me the updated invoice which still had a charge over $800 + $400 for the wiring, which he admitted to not completing. Once we fixed all of he issues Josh left me with the wiring, we filled the car with coolant (since I allowed him to over haul the entire coolant system) and coolant started shooting out of the front of the car.
The upper hose on the radiator on the passenger side wasn't attached at all. It was missing. So I had to install another one. Once that was taken care of and the motor was getting hot we noticed oil leaking from the timing cover as well.
Once the car was idling smooth coolant started to form under the intake.
We pulled that and fixed that as well. The clamp
Was never tightened down.
When I called Josh for further diag help he wouldn't get back to me. His reply was I should be doing this on my own and not at work. He also informed me that wiring which he screwed up, he told me wasn't rocket science to figure out...
Some customer service. Not only did I get back a car with work not completed, failed parts, missing parts, and a year late, I wasn't working to the conditions Josh liked.
After these items were fixed we had the car running.
Josh informed me my battery wires would need to be replaced. So we looked at those since we lost all power.
During inspection we found they weren't on all the way, the nut was loose on the starter.
When we tried to tighten the nut it just spun in place.
So we found it was stripped. We had to pull the starter and it will need to be replaced as well. Yet another issue.
I reported all of these issues to Josh about his work. Normally I know he has an excellent reputation, and some work was done very well. The rest left me with more bills which should have been fixed to begin with.
I attempted to contact Josh multiple times daily, between phone calls, txts, emails, Facebook messages etc...
I have most of the messages saved since 2009. And pictures of before and after plus the areas noted. As well as the conflicting invoices.
After seeing Josh does not care to fix his work, or return my personal property, I turned everything over the the Better business bureau in Akron. He declined to work with them as well.
Obviously my property needs to be returned, as well as being compensated for the faulty and incomplete work.
I'm working on my next step now.
I'm still willing to let Josh fix his mistakes and keep this between us. However it is not right to take advantage of customer.


-Darryl

[LEVY]

I remember someone posted something similar before, not sure if it was you, I also rememberJosh responded.

To be fair, we need to wait on Josh response and, since it was you who made it public, Josh has the right to mmade your name public.

Hope this get resolved soon.

LEVY

[Delorean Industries]

Just going to throw a quick response to this as I am just getting back and have neither the time or patience to deal with this issue further. It was on my own negligence to do any work to this car as it will never be road worthy or safe without major components replaced. If I had known of the funding issues upfront I would also have had nothing to do with this. By the time we finally received payment to move forward after an extensive time of the vehicle sitting here it was already considered to be at the bottom of the list. As paying customers were scheduled in ahead of this as time went on with no movement.

I'm just going to be blunt:

The car is a nightmare and should not be on the road. We went above and beyond to make the car as "complete" as possible without being drivable as it would have been a major lapse of judgement for us to allow this car to leave here under it's own power. The frame is rotted in half and it is only a matter of time until someone is hurt as I am well aware it is being daily driven on a manipulated vehicle inspection in the state of PA. I should have turned this in and that was a lapse of my judgement. We also insisted that the vehicle was picked up on full car trailer as the owner wanted to use a dolly. This would have resulted in the car most likely splitting in half. I know that I did my part to convey the situation very clearly. The car would not leave here in running form. The vehicle is not safe.

We put additional parts, time and resources into this car trying to make it as complete as possible. Above and beyond what we originally signed on for as it became a charity case. We ran the 3.0 engine assembly on our dyno after freshening it up etc. Built a harness to integrate into the vehicle all along the common design wiring of a ms unit. The car has been molested to the point of no return and we took it as far as possible. You were not charged for the ridiculous amount of time spent on sorting through the rats nest of wiring over wiring spliced ten different ways sideways. WITHOUT extending past the quoted budget which we can legally exceed in Ohio by 10% but DID NOT of the total bill ,serious concerns were addressed. Such as the puking slave cylinder that needed to be bled out so that the vehicle was equipped with working hydraulics.

Concerns that you have given that are out of the realm of reasonable as to being our fault:

trunk carpet- your vehicle was delivered with a rodent problem present. This was a causality of that. I have never had to pack a car so full of decon in my life.
starter-you had some sort of crazy wiring going on with it. The three bolts retaining it were the only thing touched and then moved to the side. Along with the transmission that was never removed because it was installed with incorrect cross threaded hardware and who knows what else.

Once it was established that you had no idea what you were doing and paying your place of employment to do the work I wanted no involvement. Why would I work for free helping someone else that is charging you when you were not willing to have us do the work? Your outlandish claims of simple things being wrong on the word of your friends at your place of employment blows my mind. The car was as far as possible for funds available for the project and what we were willing to get into.



It also got to the point where we declined to do any other work to the car per your request. We were not about to take on door latches and handles as most required components were not even present and the door panels were urethane bonded on.

Again....
Offering additional help that was then not given after pick up:
You are absolutely right on this one. If you think I am going to waste my time on the phone with another shop that you are paying to fix your car that you are also employed at you are dead wrong. You were given simple instructions on how to do a number of things and they some how turned it into a nightmare even worse than the first one. Not to mention destroying another ECU by back feeding the unit.

Your buddies then proceed to "find" additional problems along the way that were ridiculous. That is why I have written off offering any assistance what so ever on this project.

So when you approach me after I have bent over backwards for you over a very long time always trying to work with you and demand a refund for additional things that we had nothing to do with I throw up my hands.

I am fully admitting this car should probably never have been serviced. I was just going to chalk this up as a nightmare in the past but now that I am aware the car is being driven violating a state inspection I am required to say something. Not because I am trying to be vindictive but because if something goes wrong and I serviced it we could be found liable in the case of an incident.


Plain and simple: If you feel there is a "mistake" with something that we should warranty then we will fix it. If you tell us for instance that the timing cover is leaking. Then we would reseal it as we sealed it initially. But the list of previously hacked up components that you wanted corrected on our dime is not our problem. It is not our fault that the A/C compressor was seized along with a variety of other issues.


I feel that it is impossible to convey the actual condition of this car. All I can do is explain the mentality of how it is up-kept. The fuel system for example in your mind is perfectly safe with a piece of hose pushed over a non barb fitting with a cooling system clamp. To help out with all of the VERY unsafe items on the car I noted each and every one for you in detail with taped notes and references.


You also have the completed final invoice copies showing what was performed on the car. If you need an additional copy I can send it to you.

I'm sure I missed a few things but that is the over all answer to it. If you need anything clarified just let me know.

[Mydmc5898]

The condition of the car is not the issue.
So first, all safety issues that PA wants done have been done.
And I have the work documented, plus the parts from PJ Grady, Harvey, DMCH and local machine shops.
As for the carpet, no there was no infestation. The car was kept in a garage the entire time under my supervision.
It isn't my "buddies" garage, it's a national garage.

The case is simple, you did not complete the work I paid you for. Also when I asked if you didn't have time to work on the car I would take it back. You declined.
Plus you said you had my parts there and would return or replace them.
The carpet and laptop. Neither had been returned.

And if you want to report my car to the state, you are more than welcome to make a false report.
And they didn't just "find things" I sent you pictures and saved before and after.
Luckily you can see the starter is before shots.

[Mydmc5898]

Furthermore, I only asked about a dolly.

And lastly you breached your contract. It's as simple as that.

You admitted to not completing what I paid for, in front of two witnesses and also in two separate emails agreed to return my items.

The condition of the car isn't relevant. I and asked you if it was safe. You said no. So I agreed to tow it out on what you felt was best. You suggested a full bed, so I did just that.
Also we had established you only were to get the car running.
And not only was it not running, you didn't even finish the car itself.
And again, you admitted to all of this.

So again, not only did you not finish the work, but it's wasn't done properly. And some items were unsafe do to the work you attempted to do. No only that, you never once called or emailed for permission to do further work. However I said I would negotiate that with you to be fair.

So between the time it takes to fix the leaks, replacement of the started, my laptop, the trunk carpet.
Each has pictures and has been fully documents and in some cases you have even admitted such.
Would you rather take care of this and fix his with me, or do I have to take further steps?

[Delorean Industries]

This is going no where. We both know the car was stored outdoors at your residence. Susceptible to a variety of issues including rodents. Unless you put a chassis under the car it will not pass a PA state inspection. The car is not safe to drive end of discussion.



Saw your edited response and I missed a few items.
If there was ever a warranty issue the problem is not corrected by having it fixed yourself and then handing dpi the bill. Not how warranties expressed or implied on work performed are addressed.

Again the hokey starter and ground wiring on your vehicle is not our concern. If you would like a carpet section and a like lap top to replace the toasted unit we discarded after apprising you of such that is fine. We will gladly give you funds for a computer able to run windows 95 and the amount required to purchase a new carpet section to replace your destroyed unit with shipping.

By no means will we pay a bill from your place of employment for costs involving additional concerns or anything deemed warranty as we were apprised of the associated cost, present problems etc until after corrections had been made.

[Mydmc5898]

Perhaps you don't feel this is going anywhere. I assure you, it most definitely is.
Also you admitted you didn't try my engine on a dyno.
I have that email as well.


I like how you keep coming back to the safety issues.
It is true, now the car is stored out doors. Before it was two garages prior to you for storage. I even have *gasp* pictures!
And looks like the state feels what was done was sufficient to pass and be safe.
I have pictures of the frame before hand too. It's not rotted in the middle. Perhaps you are confused?

I have two witnesses and you admitting not finishing the wiring, that is the issue I have.
And also you have my property.
Which of those two issues has any bearing on the frame?
Please explain.

I'm saying you didn't return my property. Nor did you finish the work I paid for.
And the reason is my frame WAS rotted?
Is that the reason? Because you felt the frame was fine enough to do other work.

Is that really what you are saying?
I'm just making sure.

Hmm... Going into my messages you did state I would be able to take the car running.
That was in 2012.... So what changed in those few months?
Did my car suddenly become worse?
You did agree to do the work after evaluating it....
Hence you detailed and accurate inspection.

[Delorean Industries]

Correct out of the three engines slated for your car the first ones were in the mule only. Last one the extra time was spent on the dyno to test.

Acceptable response above to your property concern?

[Jack]

18444

[Delorean Industries]

Read my first post regarding working on this nightmare in the first place please.

[Delorean Industries]

Your frame is shot. My professional opinion. You are jumping all over the place. Stop editing posts and start a new response so I don't miss answering anything.

[Delorean Industries]

Again read my response regarding the laptop and carpet. Does that work? I think I also have your rotted out rock screen in a scrap pile if you would like that as well.

[Nicholas R]

Stop editing posts and start a new response so I don't miss answering anything.

Not taking sides but yes I agree, the constant editing of posts makes this difficult to follow.

Carry on... :popcorn:

[Mydmc5898]

I do apologize about the editing. It's hard to be working and doing this.

Again... So the frame was good enough to preform all the work this far... But not enough to finish it?

Ok so in order.
1 evaluate the car
2 recommend the first list
3 recommend more work
4 fit three engines
5 allow the car to leave without finishing after multiple times saying it would be running
6 blame my frame...?

How did you arrive at 6?

[Michael]

In the VERY FEW complaints I have read about DPI and Josh there seems to be one common denominator: The people complaining never have the funds to pay for their work. When they finally do put enough scratch to get their car back in whatever state the shorted bill left it in, the online assinations begin.

Get your finances in order BEFORE buying a DeLorean!!!!...or any collector car for that matter.

[Mydmc5898]

No, see the issue was I said I was going to take my car back since I couldn't afford it.
Josh is the one who wanted to proceed. Several times I had offered to cut the loss and take the car until I had the full bill paid. Josh is the one who declined.

Again I do have emails and messages of this. Obviously I can't post them yet.

[Delorean Industries]

I think tony said it best once.
You have a b c and d wrong. You only have is fix a and c. B and d are still wrong.....

Without over complicating this. Your budget was expended. Tons of parts were still additionally required to make it drivable in your car. this is why i never tested the engines in your car. too many things wrong outside of the scope of work being performed. Compressor for the serpentine system, fuel pressure reg (which we gave you) correct fuel lines, battery, battery cables and the list goes on and on. We took the car as far as the budget allowed and then some at our own expense. You were well aware of this. These items are not free. All besides the point of the chassis issues which I stated day one. But you still wanted us to move forward with some of the work that you could afford.
You can't even have an engine installed at a vendor without any other accessories just a bare block for less than 13k. You received much more than that at a reduced labor rate I honored from when we quoted you years ago. Normally a quote is for thirty days.

Further more I labeled all of the items needing attention to finish beyond what was quoted. After completion of providing a running tested motor installed. You knew full well that without a whole list of components supplied to you that the engine could not be run in car. I wasn't about to give you free parts from the test cell or mule used for testing.

[Mydmc5898]

I did me took that in my first post about how Josh said I could take he car. Then said I couldn't.
I was very upfront with him.

[Nicholas R]

I did me took that in my first post about how Josh said I could take he car. Then said I couldn't.
I was very upfront with him.

Wut? :confused0:

[Mydmc5898]

So why was the car safe to work on to install all the easy parts.
Once it came time for the engine... Really just the wiring it was unsafe?
How does that work?

Especially after you stated several times it would be returned running?
See that doesn't make sense...

You say:
You are will be running.

What I do:
I pick up the car not running.

You say:
Because the car isn't safe... Even though you paid in full, like out contract agreement.

[Mydmc5898]

Sorry got jumbled.
I did say I would take the car back in my first post being that I didn't have the full funds.
It's in there.
Josh said to keep the car there.


Regardless I did pay, and in full.
So I fail to see the issue with payment...
It was the work that wasn't done after I paid.
Plus my items that were kept.

[Mydmc5898]

Oh, in Josh's reply he did state he did receive payment to move ahead.

[Michael]

You say:
You are will be running.

What I do:
I pick up the car not running.

You say:
Because the car isn't safe... Even though you paid in full, like out contract agreement.

All your DeLorean belong to Josh

[Mydmc5898]

I did miss your response to the grounds... The grounds that destroyed the ecu were grounds on the MS harness that was not finished. The grounds for the ms unit were taped and hidden. Hence why the unit was ruined.

And yes per our original agreement my trunk carpet and laptop should have been returned in January.
So like you have promised multiple times, when will they arrive?

The work not down is what I'm requesting back.
Labor time for the harness that you did not finish.
I have a list of all connections missing of not attached when I got the car back.

[Ron]

OK...since there is no working it out in peace...lol

To be fair and not leave someone hanging out to dry, ONE MORE POST EACH, THEN TAKE IT TO PM PLEASE, until it is resolved...afterwards I'll unlock it, iff you agree.

[Spittybug]

While everyone is entitled to their own opinions and interpretations of the facts, it is my opinion that you will have a hard time convincing this group that Josh is anything but a valued, honest supplier/friend to this community.

[Mydmc5898]

So the facts of this.

I paid $13,000 for work a multitude of items.
You sent my an invoice after I agreed to another one to "justify" what you did and didn't do.Times don't lie.
And believe me I saved everything. Unless you have another bogus invoice you need to send me?
After paying you return my car incomplete and with missing items.

And some how the condition of the car is now the reason?
But it wasn't an issues before agreeing?

I'm confused.


Sorry Ron missed that post.
Yes I agree.


Also no, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.
I would gladly post the emails, call records, photos, messages etc... Once all is resolved.
I didn't try to say he wasn't a valuable part of the DeLorean community.
However I don't feel I should be cheated simply because of that fact.
This was simply my experience.

[Nicholas R]

All your DeLorean belong to Josh

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18449&d=1366665403

Sorry couldn't resist :biggrin:

[Ron]

I see you are both online...offer going, going, ....

(You are communicating...You CAN work it out!)

[Nicholas R]

The one thing that sticks out to me as I read this is that you keep saying he refused to give you back the car.

If there was truly no money owed on the car there is no way he could keep you from the car and you should have just stuck to getting it back. But if you owed him for work, he has/can place a shop lien on the car; totally legal.

Still, you then said that after he didn't return it you had him work on it for another year. What the hell??? How did you go from, "quit working on my car and give it back," to "here's more money, keep working on it for another year." Despite giving the go-ahead for a year of work in 2012, right now you're still mad he didn't give you the car back in 2011. It's like you're retroactively mad that he didn't give the car back BEFORE you told him to keep it and work on it for a year. I just cannot wrap my head around this.

[Mydmc5898]

No, it wasn't me saying don't work on it.
I told him I didn't have the funds. So if this was a problem I would pay the difference and take the car back. Once I had secured the money I would ship it back.
I didn't want it to take up space or just sit there.
But Josh insisted it wasn't an issue and when I did say I was going to take it. He then said I couldn't because I owned on it. However it was a week before he said that, that it was ok for me to take.


Once I paid in full, it sat there for an additional year.
It became one deadline after another. The first few months I was fine with it.
Because it was always near finish, or he just needed another week.
By the time a year came around I was annoyed.


And it's ok about the game comment.
I have a sense of humor lol.


I do believe we can work it out.
My property which was promised should be returned.
And the work which was not done could be refunded back to me.

I'm only asking for a small amount back. If I take a rough estimate, maybe $2,300 out of the $13,000.
I would even negotiate that. I've been offering.

[Mydmc5898]

Sorry for another double post. But when I asked what else was owned he wouldn't tell me.
It became a game of me trying to contact him and never getting a response.
However it all happened as I was getting the loan.
So once I got the loan I said here is what you want, finish the car and I will get it back.
Clearly it wasn't finished.

That's my argument.
He admits to not finishing the wiring, I have pictures and two witness's, After I had paid in full.
He did all of the other work but that.
So how does my frame, or anything else matter?
Those are red haring arguments.
They have nothing to do with my compliant.
Especially when after knowing the condition he started to work on it anyway.