Lower Control Arm Braces

[Spittybug]

$250



New grade 8 bolts (4)
New lock nuts (4)
Stainless washers ( 8 )
Polyurethane bushings, fully sleeved ( 8 )
Braces (2)
Shipping to US address (PM me if you are international)


I will offer these through my company, Neal Ventures LLC. As such, I am set up to to take credit cards via Paypal, but it also mean that I need to charge Texas sales tax if I ship to a Texas address. I'm not setting up a website or anything, so if you wish to order a pair (one per car side), please PM me as some of you already have. My company lawyer did advice me that I should get a waiver from each purchaser before shipping since this I don't have an "official" sales invoice with terms and conditions or limits of merchantability. For video in action:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfDMHgEVnrc

[eagle-co94]

What material are the braces and what is the finish on them?

[Spittybug]

Polyurethane bushings in DOM (drawn over mandrel) seamless tubes (.12" wall) and schedule 40 iron pipe connector between the two. Heavy duty!
Finish is black spray on truck bed liner; hard plastic like finish. I've had this on all my front suspension parts and it holds up very nicely. If you wanted to powder coat them, I could send them unpainted. I really don't think they need it however.

The welding I get done by a local pro that does a really good job and dresses them up nicely too. I build them on a dimension jig and take them to him with just a quick tack weld to hold the dimension.

I forgot to mention that the kit also comes with the 1/2" ID steel spacer that goes on the pivot bolt between the trailing edge of the car frame and the bushing. This basically allows the angle to be smaller, reducing the lateral force on the bolt and increasing the linear force. You can see it on the second picture above. Check out the history of the development in this thread along with some other pictures: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6590-Lower-Control-Arm&p=95411&viewfull=1#post95411

[eagle-co94]

Very nice. You should put those pics in this thread. If I can get one of my D's on the road soon I'll be giving you a call.

[Spittybug]

Good suggestion. Here are the pics of the LA on the car reposted in this thread.
I'm going to measure and see if I can go 1/2" shorter on the bolts just to look a bit cleaner.

BTW, with 4 cars we could work out a great deal!:wrenchin::wrenchin::wrenchin::wrenchin:

[eagle-co94]

1/2-3/4" shorter would be MUCH more pleasing to the eye for me! I wasn't going to mention it, but you might shave a few cents on bolts that way too.

[Totally 80s]

What must be done to install these? Drilling? Removing Control arm?

[Denver DMC]

Polyurethane bushings in DOM (drawn over mandrel) seamless tubes (.12" wall) and schedule 40 iron pipe connector between the two. Heavy duty!
Finish is black spray on truck bed liner; hard plastic like finish. I've had this on all my front suspension parts and it holds up very nicely. If you wanted to powder coat them, I could send them unpainted. I really don't think they need it however.

The welding I get done by a local pro that does a really good job and dresses them up nicely too. I build them on a dimension jig and take them to him with just a quick tack weld to hold the dimension.

I forgot to mention that the kit also comes with the 1/2" ID steel spacer that goes on the pivot bolt between the trailing edge of the car frame and the bushing. This basically allows the angle to be smaller, reducing the lateral force on the bolt and increasing the linear force. You can see it on the second picture above. Check out the history of the development in this thread along with some other pictures: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6590-Lower-Control-Arm&p=95411&viewfull=1#post95411

I just sent you a private message. Several of us from Rocky Mountain DeLoreans may have interest. This looks like very good work!

[Totally 80s]

Does anyone know what must be done to install these things? Do they just bolt on? Does the control arm have to be removed? Is there drilling involved?

[Spittybug]

Does anyone know what must be done to install these things? Do they just bolt on? Does the control arm have to be removed? Is there drilling involved?

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6590-Lower-Control-Arm&p=98349&viewfull=1#post98349

No drilling. No permanent change to car if you ever have to go back to true stock.

[dmcjohn]

Hi Owen,

Congrats on the product - I'm very interested in anything to improve the front lower control arm.

One difference between yours and Ed's solution I notice is that Ed's still allowed some movement as his support arms were flexible due to their design, but yours appear to be designed not to yield at all.

Have you done anything to account for the arc which the sway bar travels through as the suspension compresses? What ARB bushings are you using?

Thanks,
John

[Spittybug]

Hi Owen,

Congrats on the product - I'm very interested in anything to improve the front lower control arm.

One difference between yours and Ed's solution I notice is that Ed's still allowed some movement as his support arms were flexible due to their design, but yours appear to be designed not to yield at all.

Have you done anything to account for the arc which the sway bar travels through as the suspension compresses? What ARB bushings are you using?

Thanks,
John

John, there is still a minimal amount of flex due to the fact that both bolts run through polyurethane bushings. A small amount of flex in the pivot one for example will translate into a minimal amount of fore/aft motion of the arm, like modern wishbones.

The arc is a moot point. The distance between the pivot bolt on the car and the lower shock mount on the arm is a fixed value. Since these two points are the mounting point for the brace, that plane remains constant as the arm swings up or down. Same concept as the EU solution.

How many sets can I put you down for? :biggrin:

[ed uding]

It is not the same concept, your set is only the rear support that will stress the bold and frame in the end.
This is what we start with, after test and calculation it was not the way to go.
The force is a lot more thane you think, it is still a wonder that all the stock lower arms there.
Rust and bend metal , make it more weak thane it shoot be.
Call it what you like, as long you don,t call it Same concept.

Ed Uding
Delorean Europe

QUOTE=Spittybug;100686]John, there is still a minimal amount of flex due to the fact that both bolts run through polyurethane bushings. A small amount of flex in the pivot one for example will translate into a minimal amount of fore/aft motion of the arm, like modern wishbones.

The arc is a moot point. The distance between the pivot bolt on the car and the lower shock mount on the arm is a fixed value. Since these two points are the mounting point for the brace, that plane remains constant as the arm swings up or down. Same concept as the EU solution.

How many sets can I put you down for? :biggrin:[/QUOTE]

[DMCMW Dave]

The arc is a moot point. The distance between the pivot bolt on the car and the lower shock mount on the arm is a fixed value. :

The are is not a moot point. It is caused by the sway bar being used as a thrust arm. An issue with either design. If the brace is too stiff you'll find that your sway bar bushings won't last very long.

[Spittybug]

I wish to be very, very clear here. I have nothing bad to say (nor have I) about Ed's product or Ed himself and I have never tried his product. The decision of what aftermarket solutions people wish to purchase is up to them, as is the risk of doing so, whether purchased from me or Ed.

I'm using mine, have provided video documentation of it in use and have every confidence in it. Hence my willingness to offer it to others who believe it might help them too. Ed is entitled to his opinion on the pros and cons of his design versus mine but I trust he will respect our community rules and refrain from such a debate within my For Sale thread.

The "same concept" comment refers to the fact that both the EU version and mine use a physical connection between two points whose distance does not change as the arm goes through its up/down travels, that's all. Please read it in the context it was presented. A quick review of any and all of my posts on this subject will reveal no negativity toward any competitive product.

[delornut]

[QUOTE=ed uding;100689]It is not the same concept, your set is only the rear support that will stress the bold and frame in the end.
This is what we start with, after test and calculation it was not the way to go.
The force is a lot more thane you think, it is still a wonder that all the stock lower arms there.
Rust and bend metal , make it more weak thane it shoot be.
Call it what you like, as long you don,t call it Same concept.

Ed Uding
Delorean Europe


I agree with what Ed says here. With his design the load is balanced between the front and rear of the spring tower spreading the stress across a broader area instead of concentrating all of it on one side. Stress is also divided between both ends of the bolt.

Bruce Benson

[Spittybug]

Took the Delorean out for a run up to Tomball up 249 (75+ mph) and then lots of stop and go with traffic lights. Another 20 or so miles with all the beetling around I did. I can honestly say that I get less steering wheel jiggle or wobble, whatever you want to call it, at speed. It wasn't bad before, but it is virtually non-existent now.

I'm trying to be open minded about the concerns raised about the potential for stressing the tower or bending the bolts. I just put the car on the lift and eyeballed everything. Nothing out of the normal.

The extended portion of the pivot bolt, while not supported on the end, is sleeved and thus reinforced from bending. First there is a 1/2" ID steel collar slid over it closest to the tower, then the bushing with its metal sleeve tube. You can see this in the pictures. Total "extension" of the bolt from its normal seated position is ~2.25", 1.75" of that is inside the bushing sleeve. If I detect any bending of the bolt, I suppose I could change the angle of the brace to be closer to 90*, putting more shearing stress on the bolt (less % going to tension), but closer in to the supported portion of the bolt. I have not seen a need to do this however and will continue to feedback my experience.

[Sammy]

I wish to be very, very clear here. I have nothing bad to say (nor have I) about Ed's product or Ed himself and I have never tried his product. The decision of what aftermarket solutions people wish to purchase is up to them, as is the risk of doing so, whether purchased from me or Ed.

I'm using mine, have provided video documentation of it in use and have every confidence in it. Hence my willingness to offer it to others who believe it might help them too. Ed is entitled to his opinion on the pros and cons of his design versus mine but I trust he will respect our community rules and refrain from such a debate within my For Sale thread.

The "same concept" comment refers to the fact that both the EU version and mine use a physical connection between two points whose distance does not change as the arm goes through its up/down travels, that's all. Please read it in the context it was presented. A quick review of any and all of my posts on this subject will reveal no negativity toward any competitive product.


There is something very familiar about all this.

[dn010]

Were these tested on LCA's that are stock and not reinforced? I just notice in the picture that you have reinforced ones; mine aren't reinforced so I'm wondering if this would make any difference... Thanks

[Spittybug]

Were these tested on LCA's that are stock and not reinforced? I just notice in the picture that you have reinforced ones; mine aren't reinforced so I'm wondering if this would make any difference... Thanks

My LCAs are boxed in (did them myself) which gives them more rigidity than normal ones. That is to say they resist twisting or changing their shape (or God forbid breaking). I don't see how boxing alone reduces the fore/aft movement in the road wheel since that is a function of the flex in the pivot bushing and the movement allowed by the front sway bar. I suppose there could be some minor improvement by boxing alone, but I don't see how. The new brace however sits between the lower shock bolt (which has metal spacers bracing it across the width of the LCA, thus making that portion rigid) and the body via the pivot bolt, greatly minimizing the fore/aft movement.

Bottom line; I believe they both improve handling and hopefully safety, but for different reasons.

[Spittybug]

I'm not sure how many miles are now on them, but at least two tankfuls of gas. I put the D up on the lift today and removed the nuts from the long pivot bolt and the shock bolt. I then proceeded to rotate the bolt to check for any distortion that may have occurred over several hundred miles of "spirited" driving. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Looked as straight as the day they went in. No visible wear or abnormality anywhere that I could detect. I remain as confident in these as the day they were installed... and put my ass in the car, on the line, to prove it.

I then put scissor jacks under the wheels, lowered the car's weight to preload the suspension and tightened everything up.

Thanks to those that have already ordered these. I'm getting ready to order materials for another batch. A few groups have expressed an interest in multiple sets for their clubs. Let's talk volume!
Please PM me as I have no interest in creating more debate through public posting of orders............

[Patrick C]

BUMP. Just remembered these. Anyone still using them? Just curious.

[Spittybug]

Still using, still look great down there.. I was under the car the other day to check on the source of an oil drip so I went to check the bushings on the LCA. Not visible wear or tear. I drive the car every chance I get and although it isn't a ton of miles since the addition of the LCAs, it's enough to determine that they work in my opinion.

My experience is that you will want to have a few of the large fender washers available for getting the alignment perfect. By adding them to either side of the bolt that goes through the lower eye of the shock, you can minimally move the LCA forward or aft a bit (caster) which normally is not adjustable on our cars. This impacts the toe a bit too which is easily adjusted with the tie rods. My local Firestone guys let me hover over them as they use their fancy machine and I'm able to see all the adjustments.

[eagle-co94]

How many miles since install?

[Spittybug]

I'm going to guess about 2,000 or so. I do 20 here and 20 there, so keeping track is tough! 1 year, 52 weeks, 40 miles a week average? Yeah, that's about right.

[Ryan King]

Spitty - I messaged you about your product.

I have been hearing a popping noise lately from my front left suspension parts...and found the culprit...
3396733968

I am wondering if when the control arm moves back and fourth, it wiggles the Poly bushings out of place. I am going to go back to stock on these. And I am interested in purchasing a set of your braces. Please let me know.

-Ryan

[Spittybug]

Ryan;

I currently do not have any in stock. They require a bit of set up to do, so I usually make them in batches. Rob Grady has expressed an interest in a set to test out on his car. I've got one or two others that have expressed interest too. Maybe it's time to make a run of them.......

If there is anyone else out there interested, please let me know (thread or PM). I need to get a few more orders to make it worth the work. Bushings/tubing has gone up a bit, so price will need to be $275.

[abarringer1]

Ryan;

I currently do not have any in stock. They require a bit of set up to do, so I usually make them in batches. Rob Grady has expressed an interest in a set to test out on his car. I've got one or two others that have expressed interest too. Maybe it's time to make a run of them.......

If there is anyone else out there interested, please let me know (thread or PM). I need to get a few more orders to make it worth the work. Bushings/tubing has gone up a bit, so price will need to be $275.


I'd be interested in a pair. Just to confirm, $275 buys all I need to do the entire front end, right? Not $275 per side?

[Ryan King]

Ryan;

I currently do not have any in stock. They require a bit of set up to do, so I usually make them in batches. Rob Grady has expressed an interest in a set to test out on his car. I've got one or two others that have expressed interest too. Maybe it's time to make a run of them.......

If there is anyone else out there interested, please let me know (thread or PM). I need to get a few more orders to make it worth the work. Bushings/tubing has gone up a bit, so price will need to be $275.

Hey Spittybug,

Im in for a set. Let me know when you start knocking out details. Hopefully its soon, I need to replace those LCA bushings and I would want to do these at the same time.

-Ryan

[vps3922]

Those look awesome and the video shows no movement after installation. I am in for a pair as well. I did not box in my LCAs but I hope that it gives them more stability.

[Spittybug]

I'd be interested in a pair. Just to confirm, $275 buys all I need to do the entire front end, right? Not $275 per side?


Correct.

[abarringer1]

Correct.

Cool! I live right here in hot and humid Houston as well. I'd be happy to meet you when I pick them up. Any idea when they'll be ready?

[klaus5980]

I've installed my Lower Control Arm Braces yesterday and test driven my car for 20 miles.
Better handling while braking, improved steering and better driving around corners - thats my first subjective experience so far. I will keep you updated.

341083410934110


Klaus & 5980
Germany

On DeLoreanworldtour 09-2015 - 05-2016
www.deloreanworldtour.com

[Bitsyncmaster]

I've installed my Lower Control Arm Braces yesterday and test driven my car for 20 miles.
Better handling while braking, improved steering and better driving around corners - thats my first subjective experience so far. I will keep you updated.

341083410934110


Klaus & 5980
Germany

On DeLoreanworldtour 09-2015 - 05-2016
www.deloreanworldtour.com

You don't have the double nut, loctite recall done on your sway bar.

[klaus5980]

I use special nyloc nuts, checking them two times a year and have had no problems since more than 18 years :smile:

[Domi]

Where did you bought them klaus?

[klaus5980]

Direct from 'Spittybug' during my last stay in the USA.
Next visit in Florida is May 22 to June 6 thie year

[Spittybug]

Alright, I've confirmed that I can source all of my necessary parts and keep the price at $275 delivered US (both sides of car). For international people (sorry), I have to add actual shipping costs.

Based on PMs and responses on this thread, it looks like about 10 sets. Please confirm your order with a PM to me so that I have the number right. I will in turn send you a release that I need you to agree to. Why? My lawyer (remember, I live in the sue-crazy country of USA) says that since this is a suspension item that the user is adding to their car at their own risk, I need to make sure that it is understood. It's no different than any other aftermarket item, but given that you will be modifying your suspension, there is extra sensitivity. So that it is clear, this is an ADDITIONAL part to your suspension, not a replacement for any of it. Several people are running these on their cars (including myself) with improved handling and no negatives to report.

I include:

One brace for each side of the car
Polyurethane bushings
Replacement grade 8 bolts & locking nuts (higher spec than stock) for both the shock mount and the body mount ends
Stainless fender washers to use as shims - every car is a little different..... you should get an alignment with the suspension loaded and use the shims to adjust the caster (otherwise un-adjustable on our cars) by adding them to either the shock bolt or the body mount bolt
Spacers for body mount bolt
A fellow DMCtalker to PM if you need assistance!


I am not a 'big name' vendor of Delorean parts. I'm an owner and tinkerer. I look at the shortcomings of our cars and seek to remedy them. I make the parts for myself first and if they work and provide benefit I then offer them to others. At these prices I'm certainly not getting rich when you see what's involved with making them. I get someone more experienced than me to do the actual welding to help ensure the best quality product. If you like them, please tell others. If you don't, please tell me so that I can improve them.

Thanks.

[Flash66]

Thanks Owen! PayPal sent.

[Grover]

Are those Hervey Poly bushings? If so, I posted a review and writeup on them a few years ago about how this exact problem.


Spitty - I messaged you about your product.

I have been hearing a popping noise lately from my front left suspension parts...and found the culprit...
3396733968

I am wondering if when the control arm moves back and fourth, it wiggles the Poly bushings out of place. I am going to go back to stock on these. And I am interested in purchasing a set of your braces. Please let me know.

-Ryan

[Spittybug]

I do not know what bushings that Hervey sells, but no, I do not buy from him. No issues with these fully sleeved polyurethane bushings.

[abarringer1]

PayPal sent.
Thank you!

[Ryan King]

Are those Hervey Poly bushings? If so, I posted a review and writeup on them a few years ago about how this exact problem.

Steve - These are actually Martin's poly bushings. My friend got a full set, and ended up not using the LCA bushings. So I went ahead and bought his, but now regret my decision.
http://www.delorean.co.uk/parts.html
34130

[Spittybug]

Update: All sets (+ a few) have been tacked and are awaiting the full weld within the next day or two. All bolts, spacers, shims, bushings and nuts are in house except for the long grade 8 bolts used to connect to the car frame which are scheduled to arrive in by Friday (finger's crossed). Once welded I will paint with the really tough truck liner stuff and let them dry. I will do everything in my power to ship them out by May 20th since I'm taking my bride for an Alaskan cruise for our 25th anniversary...........

Ryan, you in or out?

[Spittybug]

Now we're cooking with gas! (actually 220V electric on the new brewery, but that's another thread...).

Arms are welded (nice and beefy with good penetration) and painted up with the truck bed stuff. Awesome paint (not the soft wheel well, sound deadening stuff). It is goopy and plasticy so that when it dries it is like armor; almost as good as powder coating. It's great for suspension parts and other bits under the car that get hit with stones, salt and water. I highly recommend.

The grade 8 bolts came in and I'm ready to pack up the sets. On Monday they will go flat rate medium package to all that have ordered and Paypalled. I made a couple of extra sets if anyone is interested... first come, first served.

[Flash66]

Awesome!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spittybug]

All went out USPS this morning.

[Flash66]

Thanks for all of your efforts Owen. Are there any steps to be followed installing these and or any tips you can lend from your experience?

[Spittybug]

Here is a picture of the arms with all of the hardware attached. Each bushing gets a washer on both faces. The extra washers are used as shims if necessary to adjust the caster of the wheel. This is a non-adjustable alignment dimension in the stock setup, but with the brace added it can be minimally adjusted using the shims. The small spacer is all that should be necessary (between the frame and the leading side of the bushing with a washer in between), but all cars are minimally different. The shims can be added on the more forward side of the bushings of either the pivot bolt (long one that goes through the frame) or the lower shock mounting bolt depending on which way you need to go.

As with any adjustments to your suspension, a good alignment is key to ensuring proper tire wear and safety. I cannot be vocal enough about being careful around coil springs. The prudent way to install these is to use a coil compressor. Others have opined that it can be done in alternate ways, but I prefer to be safe.

Refer to this thread: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6590-Lower-Control-Arm&p=98349&viewfull=1#post98349 for more. Pictures are worth a thousand words and can be found in this thread and the referenced one.

[abarringer1]

Hi Owen,
I received the Control Arm Braces and they look top notch! Can't wait to get them installed. I was kind of hoping to pick them up from you in person since we both live in hot and humid Houston but that's okay. I'm sure I'll see you around.

[Lou and "Boo"]

Owen, how much are you selling these for ?

I am trying to weigh the differences between these and Ed's wishbones.

Thanks

[Spittybug]

Sorry for the late reply, I was on an Alaskan cruise for my 25th anniversary. Absolutely awesome! We've tried Carnival and Norwegian in the past, but Celebrity takes the cake......

The set is $275 delivered domestically. I sent out a bunch of sets before leaving, I'm assuming all have been received by now? I made a couple of extra based on "soft" commitments made by some people. Get 'em while they're hot!!!!!!

[Flash66]

Hey Owen, glad the cruise went great! I just installed new tires and noticed my old tires are wearing more on the inside. Didn't you mention an adjustment with washers that may help with camber?

[Spittybug]

Hey Owen, glad the cruise went great! I just installed new tires and noticed my old tires are wearing more on the inside. Didn't you mention an adjustment with washers that may help with camber?


Not camber, caster. I'm not aware that camber is adjustable at all on our cars, just toe. By adding shims on the trailing end of the body pivot bolt or the shock tower bolt, you can minimally change the car's caster (you are moving the control arm and wheel a little forward or back). Doing so will affect the toe also. The geometry of the braces was generated on an aligned car, under load. It should therefore be very close for an "average" car. The addition of shims is purely to accommodate the minor differences between individual cars. Finding a good front-end alignment shop is better than finding a good doctor!

[Spittybug]

Three more sets sold. I'm glad to see the acceptance in the community! I certainly appreciate it.

I was reminded the other day by TexasTwister that the caster is indeed minimally adjustable on our cars, albeit in a kluge manner..... The front sway bar center mounting brackets are elongated, allowing for a bit of forward/aft movement. Given the amount of flex in the bar, this is of dubious value in my opinion; hence my braces. While nothing more than stainless steel washers, the shims that I provide in the kit allow the owner to adjust the caster a bit by positioning them either on the trailing end of the shock bolt (moving the LCA slightly forward) or the trailing end of the frame bolt (moving the LCA slightly rearward). Remember, this should be checked with the suspension fully loaded, not hanging freely. All of our cars are slightly different. I have found that a "lifetime" alignment package from Firestone is worth the money on our cars! In fact, my local shop lets me get under and help/supervise. Then again, this is Texas and we don't have an abundance of invasive consumer protection laws...... I'll stop there at the risk of getting too political in a week where the SCOTUS entered a new era of legislating instead of adjudicating......

[Ryan King]

Just installed these on my car. I really like them. Easy to install. I bought a set from another owner who went a different route.

Only did one test drive, but could really tell the difference in handling and steering vibration.

[Spittybug]

Just installed these on my car. I really like them. Easy to install. I bought a set from another owner who went a different route.

Only did one test drive, but could really tell the difference in handling and steering vibration.

Glad to hear! I'm shipping out a set today to someone in KY. I have a lot of miles on mine by now and continue to be happy with their performance. If you didn't do so, I'd strongly suggest having your alignment checked after installing them. People's bushings wear and since the sway bar which attaches to the control arms has a large degree of play in it (bending & mounting adjustment), bracing the back of the LCA may cause your toe angle to somewhat change. The braces were designed and built based on a stock car suspension, fully preloaded, but everyone's car is going to be a little bit different in so many ways. Better safe than to start scrubbing tires. My local Firestone dealer sold me lifetime alignment for mine. I've heard some get squirrely when they find out it is a Delorean, but once they find out that only the toe can be set and that it is done like any other car they come around. (I'm not counting using any shims for camber or monkeying with camber with the sway bar mounting brackets.....)

[Ryan King]

I plan to do so Friday! Mine was already off, so it worked out perfectly.

[kbrown84]

Are these braces still available, Owen? I'm redoing my front end now, and have been looking for such a solution...

[Spittybug]

Let me see if I have any left.....I know I have a set on loan to Rob Grady to test, but I don't know if he's put them on yet. I may have to knuckle down and get a whole new batch built as there has been renewed interest of late.

[Quinn]

I am interested in purchasing a set, as well.

[klaus5980]

I modified Owen's Lower Control Arm Braces with a welded 5mm L-profile to the frame:

602596025860260

Owens bolts are 8.5 inch, I took 9 inch for the additional lenght.

[Spittybug]

I no longer own my Delorean and no longer have any sets of these to sell.
Thanks to those that bought them, I truly believe they made an improvement to the car.
Happy motoring.