Recommendations on vinyl care

[kobachi]

What do y'all recommend for cleaning and "moisturizing" the vinyl in the DeLorean interior? (I asked a guy at a local shop who told me that the vinyl center console was "definitely leather" and suggested Armor All :bang:)

[pezzonovante88]

What (I asked a guy at a local shop who told me that the vinyl center console was "definitely leather" and suggested Armor All :bang:)

lol yes, shoot me too. Often times leather care products can also effectively treat/moisturize vinyl. You could also try a vinyl/rubber care product. I like AutoGlym.

[kobachi]

lol yes, shoot me too. Often times leather care products can also effectively treat/moisturize vinyl. You could also try a vinyl/rubber care product. I like AutoGlym.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm working off the (perhaps-uninformed) assumption that the products my local O'Reilly's carries might not be ideal. I generally don't trust aggressively-marketed products like Armor All, and they have several shelves full of it. That's why I asked =)

[David T]

There really isn't anything you can do for vinyl as you would for leather. Vinyl won't soak in anything to preserve it. As vinyl ages the plasticizers get hard and brittle and the only thing you can do is reduce exposure to the sun for it to last longer. All you can do with vinyl is clean the surface. As for the leather, only the seating surfaces, pull straps, steering wheel and shift boot (on the 5-speeds) are leather. For that go to Leatherique.com for information, cleaners, dyes, repairs, and Rejuvinator. Armor-all just makes things greasy (and shiny) and that attracts and holds dirt. For good car cleaning products take a look at Griot's Garage.
David Teitelbaum

[kobachi]

Indeed I was JUST looking at Griot's (they are just 50 miles from me). I also found this product, which is a bestseller on Amazon and the reviews make it sound like it's the best product in the history of human manufacturing:

303 Products Aerospace Protectant: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004R1CK56

[jawn101]

Indeed I was JUST looking at Griot's (they are just 50 miles from me). I also found this product, which is a bestseller on Amazon and the reviews make it sound like it's the best product in the history of human manufacturing:

303 Products Aerospace Protectant: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004R1CK56

Every car show I've ever been in has given me samples of this and I've never tried them. I worry extensively that it is silicone based (never found any evidence either way) and will leave an un-removable residue on the surfaces you protect with it. I also worry about it out gassing and contaminating the windows, etc. I have seen DeLoreans with permanently and un-cleanable greasy windshields that are downright dangerous when the lighting gets glare-y out.

I just prefer a regular old damp microfiber cloth for the vinyl surfaces. I haven't quite settled on a product for the leather seats yet but have heard great things about Lexol.

[kobachi]

I worry extensively that it is silicone based (never found any evidence either way) and will leave an un-removable residue on the surfaces you protect with it.

303's own marketing claims it's water-based and that silicone-based products are bad, so I think you're safe on that point.

[jawn101]

303's own marketing claims it's water-based and that silicone-based products are bad, so I think you're safe on that point.

Look at that, so it does. The very last place I look when evaluating any product is the manufacturer's own info. Guess I forgot to look at all :)

[kobachi]

Look at that, so it does. The very last place I look when evaluating any product is the manufacturer's own info. Guess I forgot to look at all :)

Well, to be more specific, it says it contains no "silicone oils". The fact that they specify "oils" might be suspicious...

In any case, it's reviewed ridiculously well on Amazon, by people who say they've been using it for 6, 10, 12 years. I ordered some, along with some Lexol cleaner and conditioner.

EDIT: there seems to be considerable debate about the use of silicone in interior products. The post from the guy who works at Meguiar's is particularly interesting: http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/detail-shop/25914-303-protectant-vs-armor-all.html

[Mark D]

Do not use 303 aerospace protectant on your dash, binnacle or any other vinyl. I have some nice dark brown spots on my (once) pristine dash thanks to 303. It works great on my newer car, but the old materials didn't fare well at all as soon as the sun hit it.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18779&d=1367550319

If your dash and binnacle look good now then leave it alone. Wipe it down with a damp cloth to keep it clean, and avoid letting it sit in the sun for extended periods. 30+ year old synthetic materials do not react well when they're suddenly infused with cleaners and products intended for protection. I learned that one the hard way.

Leather is completely different story than vinyl. Leatherique is a great product that is PH neutral and will rehydrate and clean your leather seating surfaces and steering wheel. I followed the instructions to the letter and my seats are now much softer and flexible like they originally were. They've relaxed and loosened up so they're not stretched tight and prone to tearing at the seams. You can even see some of the original ripple texture has come back in places. I highly recommend.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18782&d=1367550941

[kobachi]

Do not use 303 aerospace protectant on your dash, binnacle or any other vinyl. I have some nice dark brown spots on my (once) pristine dash thanks to 303. It works great on my newer car, but the old materials didn't fare well at all as soon as the sun hit it.

Oh...well, shit.

Can you fill in a bit more information? Is there any chance it brought-out/made-visible existing damage? Or are you quite sure it /caused/ problems? Have any pictures you could share?

[john 05141]

Vinyl is a type of plastic. What is written here is correct, sun is the greatest enemy.
I had some brown sunburn spots (my car came from Florida).
So I used a dye, and every problem is gone. Result in the picure below. Some people are against using a dye, but I did this almost 4 years ago and it still looks new today. (but our cimate is not as hot)
I included a picure. My binacle was cracked but recovered in a lighter color. The dye masked it all perfectly.

Using these plastic care products makes the surface greasier, so decide first, you cannot try the plastic care first and dye later. Even if you try to degrease very well.

I can recommend using a dye, but make sure you are using good quality.

Jan

[Mark D]

Oh...well, shit.

Can you fill in a bit more information? Is there any chance it brought-out/made-visible existing damage? Or are you quite sure it /caused/ problems? Have any pictures you could share?

I can post a few more pictures, but it's pretty clear that the 303 caused the damage. Originally the entire dash was the normal grey color you see around the brown spot in that picture I posted. The previous owner had never used armor all or any other products and there was no discoloration or cracks. Not being able to leave well enough alone I thought I would "protect it" from damage with some 303. Don't get me wrong, it's normally an awesome product and provides some UV blocking to most materials. It just doesn't mix well with DeLorean.

The big brown spot appeared in the area where I had sprayed directly on the dash. I applied in the shade and used a microfiber cloth to spread around the 303 evenly but the spot where the liquid sat for that few seconds was where it soaked in the most. I didn't drive the car for a day or two and the car remained in the garage. No problems yet.

A few days later I drove the car to work and it sat out in the sun for a good 8 hours. I had the windows cracked so there was plenty of ventilation inside, but the sun was the killer. What I returned to was that big brown spot, and a few smaller spots where I had remembered also spraying directly on to the dash.

Thankfully on the binnacle I had just used the residual wetness in my microfiber cloth to give it a quick once-over. I noticed a very slight color change in the grey, but it did not leave any obvioius spots like the dash.

Your guess is as good as mine to the chemicle reason for the reaction, but it is obviously something in the 303 aerospace that caused the issue. In the 3 years since I used 303 the car has sat outside multiple times for car shows and other events...the spots have not grown any larger or gotten any darker.

My plan is to eventually use some SEM vinyl dye to paint the entire dash, binnacle, and glove box lid back to one uniform color.

[kobachi]

The big brown spot appeared in the area where I had sprayed directly on the dash. I applied in the shade and used a microfiber cloth to spread around the 303 evenly but the spot where the liquid sat for that few seconds was where it soaked in the most. I didn't drive the car for a day or two and the car remained in the garage. No problems yet.

Sounds to me like this is your problem. All these products say to spray the product on the applicator and then to rub in. While it's usually safe to spray directly, maybe in the DeLorean case this is just a bad idea.

I've got my center console totally removed, so I'm going to apply some 303 to the extra wraparound vinyl and leave it in the sun for an afternoon and see what happens.

[kobachi]

Had the chance today to try this out. I removed the hard centerpiece of the center console (the part that holds the window switches and ashtray) and used a tap-water-dampened microfiber cloth with some good rubbing to clean it up. Then I carefully sprayed 303 directly onto only one of the sides, rubbed it in well with my fingertip, and dried it completely using a second dry microfiber cloth (as recommended by bold red text on the 303 label).

I set it on my patio in the 80°F weather for a couple hours. It was in the direct sun for about an hour, followed by cloudy sun for another hour. No browning or discoloration was apparent.

Do you think this is a sufficient test, or did your results happen under more intense and/or longer sun exposure?

[jawn101]

Had the chance today to try this out. I removed the hard centerpiece of the center console (the part that holds the window switches and ashtray) and used a tap-water-dampened microfiber cloth with some good rubbing to clean it up. Then I carefully sprayed 303 directly onto only one of the sides, rubbed it in well with my fingertip, and dried it completely using a second dry microfiber cloth (as recommended by bold red text on the 303 label).

I set it on my patio in the 80°F weather for a couple hours. It was in the direct sun for about an hour, followed by cloudy sun for another hour. No browning or discoloration was apparent.

Do you think this is a sufficient test, or did your results happen under more intense and/or longer sun exposure?

Temperatures and sun exposure inside a parked car are much, much hotter and more concentrated than that.

[kobachi]

Temperatures and sun exposure inside a parked car are much, much hotter and more concentrated than that.

Of course they are, but that's why I put it in the direct sun. The surface temperature of my patio is ~120-140°F in direct sun; the vinyl would have warmed similarly.

Do you have recommendations on a more proper stress test?

[jawn101]

Of course they are, but that's why I put it in the direct sun. The surface temperature of my patio is ~120-140°F in direct sun; the vinyl would have warmed similarly.

Do you have recommendations on a more proper stress test?

I'd guess the best bet would be to put the part back inside the car and park it outside for a few days. Expose it to the heat cycling it would actually experience combined with any amplifying effects of the glass. The confined space would also help determine if outgassing is going to be a concern.

[Mark D]

Also keep in mind that the binnacle, dash, and center console are all made of different materials. I didn't see any issues with the center console vinyl or the knee pads. It was the dash and binnacle that had problems.

[kobachi]

Also keep in mind that the binnacle, dash, and center console are all made of different materials. I didn't see any issues with the center console vinyl or the knee pads. It was the dash and binnacle that had problems.

Oh, this is really good to know. Thanks for clarifying.

[tjd]

It sounds to me to be more of an unfortunate accident of not following the directions printed on the label of the 303. I have used 303 sparingly in my cars interior following the directions on the bottle and have had no issue of discoloring to my dash or binnacle.19045

[kobachi]

It sounds to me to be more of an unfortunate accident of not following the directions printed on the label of the 303. I have used 303 sparingly in my cars interior following the directions on the bottle and have had no issue of discoloring to my dash or binnacle.19045

To be fair, while the 303 website says to spray on an applicator and then to spread on, the bottle in my hand doesn't say anything about an applicator -- just "spray on and wipe dry"

[tjd]

To be fair, while the 303 website says to spray on an applicator and then to spread on, the bottle in my hand doesn't say anything about an applicator -- just "spray on and wipe dry"

I guess I have been lucky that I have always sprayed onto an applicator instead of right on the dash then. LOL

I have used 303 in my car sparingly for 4 years with no discoloration issues.

[kobachi]

I guess I have been lucky that I have always sprayed onto an applicator instead of right on the dash then. LOL

I have used 303 in my car sparingly for 4 years with no discoloration issues.

What sort of climate do you live in?

[tjd]

What sort of climate do you live in?

Southern Lower Michigan, So I can't imagine the climate here is much different then where the damage occurred to the car in Wisconsin.

[Iznodmad]

For those that don't know how the purple ish and brown stains happen, it takes a "perfect storm" of the right conditions. First, a spray type vinyl cleaner is applied heavily to the dash, and then nearly immediately the dash is "baked" in very hot summertime sun with outdoor temps mid 80s and above. The interior of the car tempwrature will be unbearable in hotness. When it happened to me, I had also used a dash cover, thus locking in even more heat. It is a very real phenomenon.

[Mark D]

Also, it could have been possible there was some other previous treatment to the dash that I was unaware of from the previous owner. If there were any other lingering silicone based products infused in the dash this could have also mixed with the 303 to make the reaction worse.

[NightFlyer]

Use coupon code 'leather30' when checking out - worked for me :cool: