Auto trans problem not governor related

[DARCOM]

I have an auto trans problem not governor related. I thought i would ask some of the experienced auto trans people here to see if they may have a simple fix to try before i start yanking parts.
Today i noticed a whine coming from the trans when at idle and not in gear.
symptoms: whine, slow gear engagement, possible check ball rattle.
When i first start the car every thing is OK. But after shifting the gears wile driving symptoms start to happen. But if i turn the car off then back on every thing is OK again.
Things i have tried . checked fluid level. OK
My guess right now is a bad check ball seat or a semi clogged filter. But filter was cleaned about 8k miles or so ago and fluid is clean and red.
Thanks

[David T]

Get a pressure gauge and check the line pressure. Typically a whine is either low fluid or a clogged filter. Unless you cut the filter apart it cannot be properly cleaned.
David Teitelbaum

[WelmoedJ]

You have not metioned how you checked fluid level.
If you haven't owned an automatic previously to this car and you only took the stick out to see the fluid level, it's the wrong way.

Auto tranny fluid level should be checked with engine at operational temperature, running and only after the selector has been moved through all of the positions.

[Ron]

+1 on fluid level and pressure checks!

OK when cold then whining when warm can point to the filter (as does shutting it off and symptoms going away).
But, slow gear engagement after warm up can point to worn seals (works both ways actually...).
How did the fluid look before the filter was "cleaned"?

Can you post a vid (including the suspected check ball noise)?

[DARCOM]

Hello, the fluid was checked on level ground after the fans came on and shut off. i also moved the selector through all the gears.
The check ball noise does not happen all the time. when it starts i just shut off the car and restart and its gone. i believe its caused by low pressure.

Pressure wise, i have pressure on start up but after a minuets it begins to drop.

Things i'm going to check are,
look for a collapsing hoses from the trans to the trans heat exchanger. its possible age ,heat have cause a hose to collapse causing starvation.
check filter to see if its clogged. i have taken is apart in the past and cleaned it. i will also make sure its assembled in the correct order.

[David T]

The hoses are on the pressure side so they have nothing to do with this unless they are leaking. There is a ball check valve on the torque converter but that is only there to prevent drain-back. if you are losing pressure after starting up it would seem to be low fluid, too much fluid, wrong fluid, or a plugged up filter. If you are shifting correctly it is unlikely you have a blown internal seal. A whining noise would indicate cavitation by the pump.
David Teitelbaum

[DARCOM]

I finally got around to pulling my trans pan and pulling the filter. The filter was really dirty. I'm guessing its clutch and band material. I thought in the past i took the filter apart , I guess i just cleaned it with parts cleaner and put it back.
lucky after putting it all back together all is fine and normal or should i say better than normal. Its a little more torquey and There are noises i have had sense i bought the car that are gone now.

So to recap.
If your trans is shifting slow or slipping and making whiney sounds check the filter. Also if you car sounds like the one in back to the future check you filter. I had a hydraulic sound i thought was normal and sounded good. But now its gone.

[David T]

I finally got around to pulling my trans pan and pulling the filter. The filter was really dirty. I'm guessing its clutch and band material. I thought in the past i took the filter apart , I guess i just cleaned it with parts cleaner and put it back.
lucky after putting it all back together all is fine and normal or should i say better than normal. Its a little more torquey and There are noises i have had sense i bought the car that are gone now.

So to recap.
If your trans is shifting slow or slipping and making whiney sounds check the filter. Also if you car sounds like the one in back to the future check you filter. I had a hydraulic sound i thought was normal and sounded good. But now its gone.

From the pictures it appears to be friction materiel. You could examine it more closely for bits of shiny brass and any magnetic materiel and also check the drain plug if it has a magnet on it and the magnet in the pan. How many miles on the car? From that you can approximate if that is a lot of materiel or is a normal amount. Obviously you generated some during the time you ran the car with low pressure. Better to keep the pressure higher rather than lower to prolong the life of the friction plates. Make sure the vacuum modulator is hooked up and working to soften the shifts. While you are under the car make sure the wiring to the shift computer is secured and away form the hot exhaust pipes. You should also check the final drive fluid level and go over all of the On-Car external adjustments.
David Teitelbaum

[DARCOM]

The car only has 60k on it. It has no magnet on the drain plug but has one in the pan. I'm real keen on finding symptoms. So the second there was something different i no longer drove the car. only to test the problem in my garage. I don't use a trans computer. I have one but it died long ago. I made a arduino one to shift with my megasquirt but was not happy with my downshifts. I will play with that later again. right now i use toggle switches to shift. I also don't use the vacuum modulator as it makes the shifts mushy. But sense I'm doing the shifting, i control weather its under load or during a coast. That's a good possible resion why i may have material in the filter. I find i like shifting this way better and no one else can drive the car. In the future when i rebuild the transmission i may do something different if i cant get the right clutch pack made from different material.

[David T]

The car only has 60k on it. It has no magnet on the drain plug but has one in the pan. I'm real keen on finding symptoms. So the second there was something different i no longer drove the car. only to test the problem in my garage. I don't use a trans computer. I have one but it died long ago. I made a arduino one to shift with my megasquirt but was not happy with my downshifts. I will play with that later again. right now i use toggle switches to shift. I also don't use the vacuum modulator as it makes the shifts mushy. But sense I'm doing the shifting, i control weather its under load or during a coast. That's a good possible resion why i may have material in the filter. I find i like shifting this way better and no one else can drive the car. In the future when i rebuild the transmission i may do something different if i cant get the right clutch pack made from different material.

Shifting the auto trans manually is playing with fire. if you leave it in the wrong gear you can damage the transmission too easily. For testing purposes I suppose it is OK but for normal driving you should consider getting a shift controller going on it. You should also use the modulator, it takes some of the shock out of the shifts. The clutch pack housings are not the strongest design ever made and have been known to break. If you are worried about someone driving the car you can install a battery master switch and/or hide a button in the starter circuit under the dash in series with the ignition switch. The filter should not have been that plugged up for 60K miles.
David Teitelbaum

[DARCOM]

Thank you for your advice and your concern. Even though you do not recommend it, I have been driving this way for around 10 years and 15k miles or so. The auto trans mission seems to have safe guards in place so it cant be miss shifted. if your on the free way at 55mph and put the solenoids in first it just goes into neutral. if you put the solenoids in first wile at 10 mph and in second then it will go into first or try to. But i just don't do that. i barley drive the car over 70 most of my driving is 0 to 45. I always start out in first gear and the only switch i toggle when driving is second to third. when i got the car it had a bad governor it only started in second and sometimes third. I'm sure the previous owner drove it some with the bad governor. and i do believe starting out in second or third would be very bad for the clutches and bands and could account for the accumulation of material. I will remove the filter again in a year or 2k just to make sure. I'm very experimental , Its what i do.

[David T]

Thank you for your advice and your concern. Even though you do not recommend it, I have been driving this way for around 10 years and 15k miles or so. The auto trans mission seems to have safe guards in place so it cant be miss shifted. if your on the free way at 55mph and put the solenoids in first it just goes into neutral. if you put the solenoids in first wile at 10 mph and in second then it will go into first or try to. But i just don't do that. i barley drive the car over 70 most of my driving is 0 to 45. I always start out in first gear and the only switch i toggle when driving is second to third. when i got the car it had a bad governor it only started in second and sometimes third. I'm sure the previous owner drove it some with the bad governor. and i do believe starting out in second or third would be very bad for the clutches and bands and could account for the accumulation of material. I will remove the filter again in a year or 2k just to make sure. I'm very experimental , Its what i do.


It's your transmission to do with as you wish but the way you are using it is accelerating the wear on the clutch packs. My suggestion would be to experiment with a shift controller. Either get your broken one working or figure out a better one. The mechanical safeguards are not 100% and certainly are not meant to be counted on for any extended period of time (long enough to get home and repair the shift controller). That is why the default, limp-home mode is 3rd gear. Gets you going and keeps you from overspeeding the engine or transmission. As a way to judge how your transmission is wearing, there are more than a few automatics with over 100,000 miles and still going strong without plugging up the filter from excess friction materiel. There are plenty of threads and posts on how to fix your shift controller. Maybe you can come up with better methods once you try.
David Teitelbaum