Can't Start after storage

[Mcv200]

I know this has been covered all over the place on this board, but there must be some stupid little thing that I can't find.

My car had been sitting for over 10 years before I bought it back from the PO. I have replaced just about everything from the fuel tank, to the injectors to avoid any
residue or crud from the bad gas. I had the car running before I placed it into storage last November.....running rough, but running.

I took the car out of storage and I have tried everything to get it to start and run. No good. The only thing I didn't replace is the fuel accumulator. It seems like there is plenty of pressure going into the fuel distributor, however,
there is nothing reaching the injectors. Is it possible that it could just need a new accumulator?

The car will start & run if I prime the system manually. I have no means to test the fuel pressure.

Thanks for any insight

Mike

[Bitsyncmaster]

You probably have some crud inside the fuel distributor (FD). If the air plate has pressure then it probably is not the accumulator causing the no start.

[Ron]

The car will start & run if I prime the system manually. I have no means to test the fuel pressure.
Have you verified that the cold start valve is functioning when you first try to start it?

[Rich]

"...however, there is nothing reaching the injectors"

"The car will start & run if I prime the system manually"

I'm very confused by these two statements.

The car won't start and run if nothing is reaching the injectors.

For what it's worth, there is a DMC factory manual page that goes down the Engine Will Not Start sequence. Additional to the multiple threads for individual episodes - like this one.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3142-Factory-Troubleshooting-Charts-Engine-Will-Not-Start

3rd-4th images are for the fuel system. Click to magnify them.

[Ron]

Without at least 40PSI your injectors won't spray fuel, which is one symptom you report.

! Maybe I'm reading it wrong....
How long will it run after you prime it?

[Mcv200]

How can I check the cold start valve for proper function?

As far as priming ....I add a bit of fuel into the air plate area and I will get a few seconds of the engine running.

I also replaced the fuel distributor with a good one. I did this recently hoping it would solve the problem of rough running before I stored it.

There is no way I can measure fuel pressure......the injectors have been tested to spray well.....so it seems I am looking for a reason for poor pressure before the Distributor.
I have the new combo fuel pump from DMC Texas.

[DMC5180]

How did you confirm the Injectors were or were not spraying? The best way is to get 6 clean Glass baby food jars w/lids. ( I like Applesauce :biggrin:) Poke a hole in the lids just big enough to insert an injector. Pull all 6 injectors out of the heads and insert them into the jars. Next make up a Jumper Wire with 1/4 male spades on both ends. Remove the RPM relay and install the Jumper in the harness connector between the Brown and White/Purple wire. Fuel pump should be running. (verify that the pump is running) Now press on the air plate. Fuel should start spraying Equally into the jars. Report back your findings.

[Mcv200]

Dennis, I did try that with one injector out and in a jar with the fuel relay jumped, but I didn't press down the plate. I will try it again.

I also tried the same with the injector removed and just the end of the hose in a jar. No fuel.

[Ron]

^^^Sounds like the FD plunger may be stuck... See if the plate has pressure and returns when you push it down part way.


How can I check the cold start valve for proper function?
Put it in a jar. It should only spray when cranking a cold engine and then only for several seconds until the thermal time switch gets warm...

[Mcv200]

Actually I checked the plunger and it moves up and down freely. Can it possibly be the frequency valve?

[Ron]

Actually I checked the plunger and it moves up and down freely. Can it possibly be the frequency valve?
Does it put pressure on the plate (and hold it for a while)?

======
I'd say if you had good pressure to the distributor, the FV would not cause it not to fire off -- W/O gauges, Dennis' suggestion seems your best bet...

[Dangermouse]

Basic thing, but have you visually confirmed there is gas in the tank.

Don't rely on the fuel gauge.

[Mcv200]

I don't seem to be getting any pressure on the plate......seems to open & close freely.

About 5 gallons fresh gas in the tank. I'm starting to suspect the cold start valve. Just seems odd that everything was fine prior to storage.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I don't seem to be getting any pressure on the plate......seems to open & close freely.

About 5 gallons fresh gas in the tank. I'm starting to suspect the cold start valve. Just seems odd that everything was fine prior to storage.

The CSV would not cause no pressure on the plate. Is there pressure on the plate with the RPM relay jumpered?

[Mcv200]

I'm going to try the suggestion that Dennis made earlier to confirm fuel pressure getting to the injectors & go from there.
Thanks for your help everyone.

Mike

[David T]

If you are not feeling any pressure on the air sensor plate and you do not see an injector spraying, recheck the hose routing, you may have inadvertently mixed up the fuel lines (pressure and return) either at the fuel pump or at the fuel distributor. To see if the Cold Start Valve works you just remove it and have it spray into a container while someone cranks the motor. Instead of pouring raw fuel into the mixture unit try the plug swap (swapping the electrical plugs on the Cold Start Valve and the Control Pressure Regulator). If you have *any* fuel pressure that should get the motor to run at least a little.
David Teitelbaum

[Mcv200]

Ok, I followed the procedure Dennis suggested and jumped the RPM relay with the injectors out and pressed down on the steel plate. All sprayed...but quit after a second or two. Then nothing.
There was some pressure on the steel plate.

I have tried swapping the plugs....no change.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Ok, I followed the procedure Dennis suggested and jumped the RPM relay with the injectors out and pressed down on the steel plate. All sprayed...but quit after a second or two. Then nothing.
There was some pressure on the steel plate.

I have tried swapping the plugs....no change.

Do you mean they stoped even with the plate pressed? They should continue to spray if your pump is running.

[Mcv200]

Yes, I kept the plate pressed....and they only made an initial short spray then stopped.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Yes, I kept the plate pressed....and they only made an initial short spray then stopped.

That is a strange one. My guess would be your fuel filter is plugged as long as your sure the pump was still running.

[Mcv200]

Almost everything is new except the accumulator. I am using the new fuel pump/sending unit combo from DMC Texas, I haven't heard about any issues with it.

[Dangermouse]

There have been a couple of those that failed quickly and were replaced by DMCH.

[Ron]

There was some pressure on the steel plate.
"Was" as in before and after you pressed the plate and the injectors quit spraying?
Was the pump running all a long (even after the injectors quit spraying)?

[Mcv200]

Hey Ron. Yes, there was pressure on the plate the entire time I was testing the fuel pressure. The pump was running the entire time. It wasn't a lot of pressure, but there was a noticeable resistance.

I'm starting to think there is some issue with the pump or the fuel lines between the pump and filter. Maybe some residual crud from when I replaced everything. I will have to wait until next weekend to dig into it again.

I appreciate all the help and pointers from all.

[Ron]

I'd pull the cold start valve and if it did not spray (COLD), I'd suspect the pump, otherwise, trash...

[David T]

I would suspect a kinked pick-up hose but you said you have the newer DMCH fuel pump/sending unit. At this point I would disconnect the hoses at the fuel pump and see if you continue to have flow and pressure there after running the pump for a while by bypassing the RPM relay. Without fuel pressure the motor will stop almost at the same moment as the fuel pump. My guess (if the pump is still running) is that the suction strainer is clogged with junk after it runs for a moment. If there is still dirt in the tank you have to wipe it out with Acetone. If the pump runs and has pressure then maybe the fuel filter is full of junk.
David Teitelbaum

[DMCMW Dave]

I suspect you have the hoses on the new pump reversed.

[Mcv200]

I will test the cold start valve and pull the pump to check for crap on the intake as David T suggests.

Why would you think the hoses were reversed? Could it still run that way? It was running after I installed the pump last August.

[dmc6960]

Just remove both the main supply and return lines. Put them into fuel container. Jump the RPM relay and watch for a lot of fuel to come out of the supply side (drivers side). If it does you know your pump is working fine and not hooked up backwards, making the problem likely at the fuel distributor. It if comes out the return line (passenger side) then the pump is connected backwards. If you get little or no fuel, then the filter is clogged, the fuel pump isn't working correctly, or there is a wiring issue.

Again, do this in 1 gallon or larger fuel container and not a small jar, the line strait from the pump will deliver a lot of fuel in a short amount of time.

[Mcv200]

Thanks Jim, you read my mind on what I was going to do next.