Let There Be Light

[SoCalDMC12]

Greetings all,

In a few days I am going to start using 16432 semi-regularly for my 62 mile (round trip) trek from home to school. My school is located in Pasadena (CA) atop some windy, hilly roads that are not well lit at night.

My car has stock headlights, which I think are marginal. I was thinking of either installing driving lights (in the front intake area) or possibly the headlight upgrades from DMC-H. Anyone have experience with Eire solution? Also, I noticed that the upgrade kit is listed at $0.00 on DMC's site. Has it been discontinued?

Geoff

[Michael]

Greetings all,

In a few days I am going to start using 16432 semi-regularly for my 62 mile (round trip) trek from home to school. My school is located in Pasadena (CA) atop some windy, hilly roads that are not well lit at night.

My car has stock headlights, which I think are marginal. I was thinking of either installing driving lights (in the front intake area) or possibly the headlight upgrades from DMC-H. Anyone have experience with Eire solution? Also, I noticed that the upgrade kit is listed at $0.00 on DMC's site. Has it been discontinued?

Geoff

The headlight upgrade DMCH sells is just a halogen bulb in a sealed beam housing. The outer lights use a h7 but I have never changed the high beams so I'm not sure what bulb it takes. Mine had it on it when I bought the car, but they are widely available aftermarket. The kits will come with the housings, bulbs, pigtails, and hardware needed to retro fit any 4 light sealed beam system. DMCH's kit may have additional hardware to compensate for any additional current flowing through the switch, additional fuse housing, etc.

As far as illumination goes....they are great. No need for fog lights or driving lights with these. I never drove a stock setup at night so I don't have anything to compare with, but if the stock setup is lacking, definitely consider it before doing the modification and drilling needed to properly install a set of driving lights.

[dmc6960]

According to http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html ...


Cibié headlamps are no longer made in this size. The Bosch units in this size are particularly efficient and are easily the best-performing lamps of this type in this size.

I haven't yet gotten upgraded lighting but I'm interested in doing so. I'd be curious to get a review of these Bosch substitutes which can be purchased (indirectly, call the guy) from the website linked above.

[NightFlyer]

I'm still running the stock headlights and think that they're fine at night - just my opinion.

Are you sure your headlights are getting all the current they require to function at their optimum level? Perhaps an alternator upgrade would serve you better than a headlight upgrade? Just something to consider.

[dmc6960]

I'm still running the stock headlights and think that they're fine at night - just my opinion.

Are you sure your headlights are getting all the current they require to function at their optimum level? Perhaps an alternator upgrade would serve you better than a headlight upgrade? Just something to consider.

Then perhaps you haven't ridden/driven in a DeLorean equipped with upgraded headlamps. I have, multiples, and I'm really kicking myself now for not getting the Cibie's while they were still available. Not having firsthand experience with Bosch units I cannot say for certain if they are worth the price over a higher quality sealed beam. I also tend to steer clear of anything with a "halo".

Also, your alternator would have to not be working at all to cause the headlights to dim at highway speeds.

[Tomcio]

I have "upgraded" my lights when I shipped my car to Poland. European standards do not allow the use of OEM sealed beam lights and to be honest I never liked their performance either. To me they are very poor and their light output is below acceptable. Light distribution of sealed beam lights is... what light distribution? It's horrible to say the least.
Anyway, I got Hella units for both inboard and outboard. They use H1 and H4 bulbs respectively. Bosch is pretty much the same but Hella had two versions - one for European cars with parking lights and US replacement without the parking lights.
If anyone needs them they are still available here. I can find out what the current prices are. They are not cheap though, nothing like the sealed beams but... you get what you pay for.

[dmc6960]

If anyone needs them they are still available here. I can find out what the current prices are. They are not cheap though, nothing like the sealed beams but... you get what you pay for.

Are these the same units? Listed here for $45ea high/low and $46ea high, its a good deal better than the Bosch ones at DanielStearnLighting at $79ea. Are your Hella units plastic or glass?

[Tomcio]

Are these the same units? Listed here for $45ea high/low and $46ea high, its a good deal better than the Bosch ones at DanielStearnLighting at $79ea. Are your Hella units plastic or glass?

I don't know if those are the same units. I have never seen the ones for $45.
My Hella lights are thick glass with metal back. Those are not some aftermarket off-road light. It's a high quality unit.
I'll check the price tomorrow as it's already late evening over here. I'll let you know.

[Farrar]

$110 a pair here (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-003177801/overview/).

[dmc6960]

$110 a pair here (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-003177801/overview/).

Yea, I saw the summit racing ones as well. They sell them individually for $49 or $110 for the pair?! :hmm:

Usually you get a better deal when buying an item grouped together opposed to individually. Unsure what economics/business logic applies here.

[Farrar]

They sell them individually for $49 or $110 for the pair?! :hmm:

Oh, I must have read that wrong -- I thought they were selling them in pairs only. Sorry!

And yeah, that's kind of strange about the price...

[Tomcio]

Guys, this is a different headlight. It will NOT fit the DeLorean. Look at the size, it's 6.5x4 and our lights are 6x4. They have a different part number from what I have.
Theirs is 003177801
The ones I have are 003177001

[NightFlyer]

Then perhaps you haven't ridden/driven in a DeLorean equipped with upgraded headlamps. I have, multiples, and I'm really kicking myself now for not getting the Cibie's while they were still available. Not having firsthand experience with Bosch units I cannot say for certain if they are worth the price over a higher quality sealed beam. I also tend to steer clear of anything with a "halo".

Also, your alternator would have to not be working at all to cause the headlights to dim at highway speeds.

True that! I haven't ridden/driven in a DeLorean equipped with upgraded headlamps, so you're right - I honestly don't know.

However, a heavy drain on an insufficiently sized electrical system (small alternator) would cause any car's headlights to dim even at highway speeds, and the alternator would still be working as best as it could. I once put a competition level stereo into a Buick Electra Park Avenue, and when running the stereo at full volume and driving at highway speeds, the headlights would dim despite the fact that the alternator was working and performing as best it could. I eventually upgraded to a competition level HO alternator and added an additional battery, which rectified the problem.

I would imagine that the same would be true of a DeLorean - an upgraded head-unit with external amp(s) and subs pumping full volume with both factory cooling fans and the A/C running at night with full incandescent illumination while driving down the highway at speed in a car still sporting a factory original Ducellier alternator would experience dimmed headlights due to insufficient available current - of this I have little doubt. Doesn't necessarily mean that the Ducellier isn't working - only that it can't keep up with the demanded current draw.

[dmc6960]

Just remembered that Michael recently posted a video from a dashcam. Near the end of the video, starting around 50 seconds it is getting dark and you can see the headlights in action. The camera quality of them though doesn't show them to their full potential. The best part though is the perfect view of the beam pattern on the garage door at the end. That is something you'll never get in a generic sealed beam, or even a cheap H4 replacement. I agree quality costs money here. ~$50 a fixture (x4) is what I'm happy to pay. ~$80 (x4) is a bit steep but still tolerable if it is significantly better than the Hella units.

If Michael's headlights are the ones I'm thinking of, they are what DMCH used to sell, the Cibié.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZCcehQ0EFc&feature=youtu.be

[dmc6960]

Ducellier

Well, THERE'S your problem!

Seriously, if this is still your alternator, replace it now.

Edit: Sort-of nevermind, I see your a "concours" car. Either replace it and keep the still-working Ducy in the trunk, or keep a new drop-in in the trunk for when the Ducy fails.

[dmc6960]

Guys, this is a different headlight. It will NOT fit the DeLorean. Look at the size, it's 6.5x4 and our lights are 6x4. They have a different part number from what I have.
Theirs is 003177801
The ones I have are 003177001

GREAT heads up, thanks. Looks like their around the same price though. $47ea from Jegs...

http://www.jegs.com/i/Hella/288/003177001/10002/-1

...and $40 from Amazon...

http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-003177001-164x103mm-Conversion-Headlamp/dp/B000VU4X7U

[dmc6960]

Hmm, the description for 003177001 is 164mm x 103mm. 164mm is just under 6.5 inches. I think the part number difference is the "pair" vs "individual".

[Farrar]

Well, this one (http://www.amazon.com/4656-Rectangular-Xenon-HID-Headlight/dp/B008TDATWE/ref=sr_1_5?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1368132820&sr=1-5&keywords=6x4+headlight) is definitely the right size. And only $999 with free shipping. :mallet:

[NightFlyer]

Well, THERE'S your problem!

Seriously, if this is still your alternator, replace it now.

Edit: Sort-of nevermind, I see your a "concours" car. Either replace it and keep the still-working Ducy in the trunk, or keep a new drop-in in the trunk for when the Ducy fails.

Ha! Yeah, I'm still rocking the Ducy, as are other owners with apparently no problems.

Not really a purist/concours guy philosophically speaking - that just happens to be the current condition of my car (I purchased it all original 10 years ago and only removed the stove pipe and performed the basic flush and fluid changes and tune up). Also still rocking the original Goodyear NCT's (and yes, I know I shouldn't be driving on them, but they are perfect and I remove them every fall and store them in a sealed humidity controlled container so that they won't dry out). I plan on upgrading and improving in the near future, so long as original appearance is for the most part maintained. First thing will be relays.

A headlight upgrade is something that really doesn't change the appearance so much, so I may consider one in the future, however, it would be a low priority on my list.

[Tomcio]

Hmm, the description for 003177001 is 164mm x 103mm. 164mm is just under 6.5 inches. I think the part number difference is the "pair" vs "individual".

You're right Jim. It is almost 6.5". I guess this is the correct light but the part number is not correct. I checked Hella catalog and the part number 003177801 is not listed. Searching Hella database returned no results. I guess that someone entering the part numbers entered "8" instead of "0".
Please disregard my previous post. This light is correct and it will fit. Sorry about that.

On the other subject - dim headlights.
Have you checked your ground connection at the left front of the frame? This connection grounds the headlight circuit and it is known to rust. This causes drop in voltage and in result you get dim headlights.
This ground is almost directly in front of the brake master cylinder on top of the frame. IIRC it's a 6mm bolt - 10mm hex head. It's worth checking and cleaning if it hasn't been done in the last few years.

[Michael]

Just remembered that Michael recently posted a video from a dashcam. Near the end of the video, starting around 50 seconds it is getting dark and you can see the headlights in action. The camera quality of them though doesn't show them to their full potential. The best part though is the perfect view of the beam pattern on the garage door at the end. That is something you'll never get in a generic sealed beam, or even a cheap H4 replacement. I agree quality costs money here. ~$50 a fixture (x4) is what I'm happy to pay. ~$80 (x4) is a bit steep but still tolerable if it is significantly better than the Hella units.

If Michael's headlights are the ones I'm thinking of, they are what DMCH used to sell, the Cibié.

Why didn't I think of referencing that vid. My car was completed in May of 2006 with the headlight upgrade installed at that time. I do not know what brand of lights they were selling then, but it's safe to say that's what's in my car. (BTW, you are seeing low beams only in that vid.)

[Dangermouse]

I have a pair of Sylvania Silverstars sitting on my shelf waiting to be fitted. I thought they were the go-to option. Should I just take them back and get these $50 ones?

[EdR5150]

I just installed Sylvania Silverstars today: http://www.16908.info/?p=2224
I wanted to drive around tonight to test them, but it's raining.

[dmc6960]

I have a pair of Sylvania Silverstars sitting on my shelf waiting to be fitted. I thought they were the go-to option. Should I just take them back and get these $50 ones?

Depends how much you want to spend. That's $50 x2 for the housings, x4 if you do the high beams at the same time, plus whatever the H4/H1 bulbs cost x2 or x4.

[SoCalDMC12]

Well, DMC-H is currently out of their upgrade kit, so I just installed sylvania silverstar low beams, which are definitely an improvement over the stock lights. Distance is somewhat better, and the light is much whiter.

Once the DMC-H upgrade is back in stock I'll probably have them installed... Sounds like they're worthwhile.

Oh, in response to some of the earlier posts: my alternator is fine, as are my grounds. The problem was really the stock headlights.

Thanks!

[Dangermouse]

Depends how much you want to spend. That's $50 x2 for the housings, x4 if you do the high beams at the same time, plus whatever the H4/H1 bulbs cost x2 or x4.

I think the silverstars were about $25 each. I think they are at least twice as good as the OEMs, but are the Hellas twice as good as the silverstars?

[dmc6960]

I think the silverstars were about $25 each. I think they are at least twice as good as the OEMs, but are the Hellas twice as good as the silverstars?

I know the Cibiés were, I have experience with not only them, but Silverstars as well (I do agree the Silverstars are much better than "standard" sealed beams). I couldn't tell you for sure regarding the Hellas with not first hand experience.

[Tomcio]

I think the silverstars were about $25 each. I think they are at least twice as good as the OEMs, but are the Hellas twice as good as the silverstars?

That's a big YES. They are at least twice as good in my opinion. When I installed them on my car I started feeling confident when driving at night. It doesn't really matter in a city where most illumination is provided by street lights but in rural areas the difference is like day and night. With Hellas the right shoulder is illuminated, the signs are illuminated and when taking a turn on some dark back street I didn't have to guess anymore if I'm going to hit something in the darkness. The Hellas provide very wide and uniform beam. I love them.
Then, when you turn the high beams on... wow. Standing in front of the car with high beams on seems like Jesus is coming ;)

In my opinion, if you do drive at night you should get those lights. No question. And get some good bulbs! They are the source of illumination that then is directed onto the road by the Hella units. You can't get good results with poor bulbs. I use Osram or Philips in all my cars and I opt for ones marked +50%. Stay away from blue bulbs or cheap knock-offs from China. They are not worth it. Get quality parts and you will not be disappointed.
H4 (double filament) for the outboard
H1 (single filament) for the inboard

I checked the prices today and they are pretty much the same over here. About $45 - $50 each.

[SoCalDMC12]

I think the silverstars were about $25 each. I think they are at least twice as good as the OEMs, but are the Hellas twice as good as the silverstars?

I don't know if the silverstars are twice as good as OEM. I think the marketing text on the box states that they are up to 30% better than other lights by some measures. Still, I definitely see an improvement over stock.

I read a few reviews on Amazon that stated that silverstars don't last very long. That's a little worrisome, as headlights are a minor pain in the ass to replace, but I guess I'll have to wait and see.

[Farrar]

[QUOTE=SoCalDMC12;102851I read a few reviews on Amazon that stated that silverstars don't last very long.[/QUOTE]

This has been my experience -- the old halogens on my car lasted a very long time, and I replaced the Silverstars within a year, but I still think they're worth the extra money for the safety factor.

[Michael]

Why didn't I think of referencing that vid. My car was completed in May of 2006 with the headlight upgrade installed at that time. I do not know what brand of lights they were selling then, but it's safe to say that's what's in my car. (BTW, you are seeing low beams only in that vid.)

I was sniffing the car up last night and I remembered to check....they are Cibies.