Poll: Garage Restoration or Rolling Restoration?

[Farrar]

I'm at the point now where I have to make a decision...

Choice Number One: continue to keep #2613 in the garage, keep taking parts off of it, and find things to fix until everything's perfect, then start driving it = Garage Restoration.
Choice Number Two: render it roadworthy as soon as possible (trans. leak and aircon), and drive it as I fix things that break = Rolling Restoration.

I'm having trouble deciding, so I'm putting it to a vote.

[thirdmanj]

Well, since you carb'd it, the term "restoration" doesn't really apply does it? :devil: But I get what you're saying... Seems to me, rolling restorations provide the "I'm driving now/instant gratification factor" and in a manner of speaking enhance the classic car ownership experience. If you opt to block her and keep her the garage you run the risk of creating a very rare stainless steel gullwing sculpture that your grand kids may find one day in their dead grandpa's garage. Of course it all depends on the person, but for my money, I'd say its best to keep her at least semi-mobile if you can. Sure, she may be more likely to strand you from time to time, but even them thar fancy NewBuilds have been known to have their gremlins. Just get AAA, and enjoy your baby as much as you can.

[Dangermouse]

Choice #1: The efficient approach. Only take the parts off once. Risk - you forget why you have it, loose the love and sell it in 24 months time (you have been here long enough to see this happen time and time again)
Choice #2: The enjoyable approach (assuming that wrenching isn't your #1 idea of fun). Drive it, prioritize the repairs, do them. Risk - car will never be restored completely. What the hell :)

[Dangermouse]

James inspired me:

Choice #1 - Join AA
Choice #2 - Join AAA

:tongue_stick:

[thirdmanj]

James inspired me:

Choice #1 - Join AA
Choice #2 - Join AAA

:tongue_stick:

I use AAA to get to AA!! :cheers1:

[Farrar]

I've been a member of AAA for years. My first car was a Plymouth. *rimshot*

[bunni]

I am insane, and have been doing a garage restoration for the better part of two years. In the next month or so I will start putting the engine back together as I have all of the pieces finally. I will admit, there are times where I look at it and wonder why I even have the bloody thing. But then I open the door, have a sit and a scotch, and REALLY want to drive it again.


James inspired me:

Choice #1 - Join AA
Choice #2 - Join AAA

:tongue_stick:

I burst out laughing at work, everyone looked at me funny...

[dmc6960]

Rolling. Fix one problem at a time, reassemble, drive for a while. All to often I bite off more than I can chew leaving the car disassembled for months on end. This sometimes put me into a depressed state that I dont even want work on it due to the workload needed. It also helps you remember how everything goes back together since it'll likely be a shorter time period between disassembly and reassembly.

2001 I lost 2 months driving time due to overwork (water pump, cooling hoses, fuel tank/pump, first tuneup ever, etc).
2003/2004 I lost 4 months driving time due to overwork (mouse in interior prompted complete removal of interior with cleaning, soundproofing, weatherseals, etc)
2006 I lost 2 months driving time due to over extensive AC work and vendor issues (complete replacement of everything, this one I do not regret [project, still regret vendor], still running perfectly 7 years later)
2008 I lost the whole year due to an engine failure (2 months replacing exhaust gaskets due to laziness, followed by the rest of the year after finding coolant in the oil)
2009 I lost 4 months driving time rebuilding the engine (would have been less than 2 months had I not pondered over building-UP the engine, then actually doing it, dont regret this one though either).
2010 I only lost about 1 month of driving time doing major suspension overhaul and EFI install (did the fronts, backs, and EFI as three separate projects, speeding up the overall progress significantly)
2012 I lost 3 months driving time due to overwork (windshield replacement, interior re-dye, seat recovering, door mechanicals, MORE soundproofing)

This year I was anticipating another 2 months down-time for frame rust mitigation in the front suspension area (tunnel between hubs). In the process I would replace both lower ball joints and tie rods, reinforce the LCA (didn't do that back in 2010), strip rust in frame tunnel, recoat, get new tires, and finally an alignment. I've decided to break that down a little by getting the tires and alignment now, then later in the year taking it apart when I can designate a whole week just to work on it and get it back together. I'll bite the cost of a second alignment to gain much more driving time (car NEEDS alignment with new tires due to my never having performed an alignment previously). Current tires are no good for a drive down to DMCMW in mid June and my current schedule does not support completing the whole project before then. Baby steps really work best unless your 100% dedicated to the project giving no time for "life".

[Farrar]

It is "life" which frequently gets in the way of the "I need twelve hours today to fix seven problems with the car" schedule...

You guys have inspired me to put a sign up in the garage that says "The 13th Step."

[Mark D]

I think it comes down to what type of work you think you'll end up doing... I opted for a garage restoration because I knew I wanted to powder coat suspension parts and replate zinc parts. It was much easier just to tear down the whole car and get those parts done all at the same time than make a dozen trips to the powder coater and plater. I also though it would make more sense to get the major work I wanted to do over and done with so I could get on with enjoying my car and not having to plan out the next time it would be in pieces.

On the other hand if you've got smaller projects that aren't all tied in together then the rolling resto option might be the better way to go. As long as you're not removing and reinstalling the same parts for each of the jobs you're planning then you'll probably get mor enjoyment out of being able to drive your car more frequently as you work on it.

I'm pushing a year and a half on the chassis restoration I started...I'd kill to go for a drive on one of these perfect 70 deg days we've been having.

[Tillsy]

I do a varion of option two:

Choice Number Two Point One: rendered it roadworthy as soon as possible (fuel system, brake hydraulics, clutch hydraulics, etc), and drive it as I continue to proactively overhaul everything else = Rolling Restoration.

[Farrar]

OK, so far the majority is going with Rolling Restoration. The poll is open for a while, though. If I opt for Rolling Restoration, I'll have to fix the electrical problems first -- I mentioned the aircon and transmission leak but it just occurred to me that the radiator fans and fuel pump might be bad, too.

[SS Spoiler]

Just wondering if anyone had done a poll to determine how many original owners are out there......

[Farrar]

Just wondering if anyone had done a poll to determine how many original owners are out there......

Why post here? Start a poll yourself and find out! :)

[Kenny_Z]

I started with a rolling restoration but my exhaust issues prompted a garage restoration (without the garage). Sometimes it feels like I'm never going to get her back together. Though I have been able to get things fixed that have bugged me for almost 2 years so that's a good thing.

[Farrar]

For what it's worth, Kenny, I've followed your work with great interest. You've been able to do work outside which I never would have dreamed of attempting. I work so slowly that I had to wait until I had a garage before I could begin certain repairs. I'm amazed at how much you've accomplished so quickly!

[Morpheus]

I chose Garage Restoration because thats what I'm in the middle of at the moment. My car had a horrible PO and many of the car's systems were very suspect. As a result, I opted for a full frame-off for my own peace of mind.

Of course, it is taking quite a bit longer than I originally intended, but life sometimes gets in the way and forces you to alter your plans. I'm back at it now, though... getting engine bits cleaned up and ready for powder.

[thirdmanj]

I chose Garage Restoration because thats what I'm in the middle of at the moment. My car had a horrible PO and many of the car's systems were very suspect. As a result, I opted for a full frame-off for my own peace of mind.

Of course, it is taking quite a bit longer than I originally intended, but life sometimes gets in the way and forces you to alter your plans. I'm back at it now, though... getting engine bits cleaned up and ready for powder.

So you took the red pill.

[Farrar]

I'm sure I'll do a frame-off restoration at some point in the future, but I don't want to attempt it right now. The good thing about planning to keep the car until I die is that I can plan to do things in five to ten years.

I'd say by owning DeLoreans all of us took a red pill of some form or another...!

[thirdmanj]

I'm sure I'll do a frame-off restoration at some point in the future, but I don't want to attempt it right now. The good thing about planning to keep the car until I die is that I can plan to do things in five to ten years.

I'd say by owning DeLoreans all of us took a red pill of some form or another...!

Yeah but his handle is "Morpheus" and the garage restoration option is red!!! ....I'm such a nerd.

[ALEXAKOS]

James inspired me:
Choice #1 - Join AA
Choice #2 - Join AAA
:tongue_stick:

This is the smartest quote EVER!!! :biggrin:
Thumbs up D!

[Morpheus]

So you took the red pill.


LOL... Yeah, I guess I did..

[Kenny_Z]

For what it's worth, Kenny, I've followed your work with great interest. You've been able to do work outside which I never would have dreamed of attempting. I work so slowly that I had to wait until I had a garage before I could begin certain repairs. I'm amazed at how much you've accomplished so quickly!

Thank you Farrar. I don't think I would have accomplished much more with a garage other than the few days the weather stopped me from doing anything. That being said I'd do almost anything to have a nice garage ;)

[Farrar]

I'd do almost anything to have a nice garage ;)

So would I. I don't have a nice garage -- it's small and it's not my own so I can't make any alterations to it, but it's better than nothing. It allows me to keep the car on jack-stands for months at a time, prevents weather-related difficulties, and allows me to stop working on the car and come back to it later when I find a new problem in the process of fixing another one... which tends to happen a lot with these cars. :) I've lived in apartments for years, and each one of them has had a policy against partially-assembled cars sitting in their parking lots for any length of time. (Although usually I could get away with it for a day or two.)

I started out with no garage. Now I'm renting one. Some day I will own one. Baby steps... right? :)

[David T]

Factors beyond your immediate control usually make the decision for you. The big ones are budget, cash flow, if you have a decent place to work and if you have another car for a DD. The preferred method would be a total rework of all of the things at once. That way you know you have a good, reliable car and everything works. On a different thread the poster didn't have his A/C working. When it is winter that is one thing but when it is hot it is pretty much a necessity. On my list, as important as brakes! The cosmetic issues are one thing, getting all of the mechanical and electrical systems working well is essential. For most cars that means rebuilding:
Brakes
Clutch
Fuel system
Ignition system
Replacing all of the struts
Reviving the A/C and rebuilding the Mode switch
Replacing most of the cooling system
Tires, battery wiper blades, door seals, speakers
Fixing all of the improperly done previous work
Finally, fixing all of the things that don't work like windows, radio, lights, dash instruments etc.
This stuff alone can cost over $10K in parts. We didn't begin to address torn seats, sunburnt interior, headliners, dents, etc. A rolling resto is only good if you can keep the car rolling! If it gets you stuck everywhere you go pretty soon you are going to get frustrated and give up. As a practical matter the only thing you should be doing on a "rolling restoration" is cosmetic work.
David Teitelbaum

[Farrar]

Brakes
Pads and fluid bought. Everything looks OK, but I'll probably buy new discs just to be safe.

Clutch
N/A

Fuel system
Lines and filter good. Need new pump.

Ignition system
Plugs, wires, cap and rotor less than three years old. Coil less than five years old.

Replacing all of the struts
Done.

Reviving the A/C and rebuilding the Mode switch
New hoses, accumulator, evaporator, compressor, orifice tube, O-rings, lo/hi switches installed. Condensor is original and does not leak. Has been vacuumed; confirmed leak-free. Converted to R-134a components.

Replacing most of the cooling system
Hoses (under car all silicone -- in eng. compartment all rubber) confirmed good. Clamps tight. Confirmed leak-free with pressure test. Water pump less than five years old. Radiator - brass aftermarket - confirmed good. New cooling fans purchased, need to be installed. V-belts less than five years old.

Tires, battery wiper blades, door seals, speakers
Tires purchased in 2008. Battery less than two years old and confirmed good. Wiper blades not really an issue at this point. Door seals need to be replaced. Speakers will not affect the car's roadworthiness.

Fixing all of the improperly done previous work
Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner! I have just done this to the starting circuit, which was hacked into beyond belief with quick-splices, weak wire, and other yucky stuff. Starts like a champ now.

Finally, fixing all of the things that don't work like windows, radio, lights, dash instruments etc.
Windows, radio (aftermarket), lights, and gauges all work. Alternator (Houston uprated version) less than five years old.

You forgot to mention replacing every piece of rubber in the suspension! That's on my list before I put the car on the road. At that time I will have a good opportunity to POR-15 the lower control arms as the original black paint has flaked off and surface rust has appeared.

It's nice to see a response from someone who voted "garage restoration." It was beginning to look a little one-sided here. :)

[Farrar]

I forgot to mention that the emergency/parking brake hasn't worked in years. However, it's an automatic, so... :shrug:

[ccurzio]

It's still a good idea to not rely solely on the P gear when parking. I always put an auto car in neutral and engage the e-brake before putting it in park. Much better to let the brakes hold the car rather than the pin in the transmission.

Not having an e-brake would drive me nuts. :(

[Farrar]

It's still a good idea to not rely solely on the P gear when parking. I always put an auto car in neutral and engage the e-brake before putting it in park. Much better to let the brakes hold the car rather than the pin in the transmission.

Not having an e-brake would drive me nuts. :(

I always pull the parking brake in my DD, which means that whenever someone else drives it they have to figure out what the flashing "BRAKE" light on the dashboard means... *sigh*

Not having the parking/emergency brake in the D annoyed me for a year or two. After that, I stopped caring. Too many other problems to deal with. And the parking pawls work fine on this flat land I live on. :P

[David T]

On an automatic the Emergency brake rarely gets used. It should be checked once in a while to make sure it does work. I do not agree with using it regularly as you would in a 5-speed. It can't hurt but if you forget to release it and for some reason the warning light doesn't work, you will quickly wear it out unless you realize it is on. It IS important that it works, even on automatics (but not as a parking brake).
David Teitelbaum

[Farrar]

I do not agree with using it regularly as you would in a 5-speed. It can't hurt but if you forget to release it and for some reason the warning light doesn't work, you will quickly wear it out unless you realize it is on. It IS important that it works, even on automatics (but not as a parking brake).

I do the following things in order when getting ready to go somewhere in any car:
- put key in ignition
- start engine
- check all gauges/indicator lights
- fasten safety belt
- turn on lights
- turn on heat/air conditioning/defogger (optional)
- turn on wipers (if warranted)
- disengage parking brake
- engage foot brake
- put car in gear
- check surroundings
- begin journey

It's only been 18 years since I first drove a car, but I have yet to forget any of those steps. Maybe that's because I have a touch of OCD and always do everything in the same self-determined order. Maybe it's because I'm not a moron, like David Teitelbaum seems to think I am. :shrug: I do know that if your parking brake is working and you've left it engaged by accident, it's impossible not to notice when the car starts to move -- if it will move at all -- because my grandmother once left her parking brake on as Alzheimer's was beginning to grip her mind. If I'm lucky, I have another forty years before I have to worry about that. (Even she, however, noticed that the car wasn't behaving properly and realized that the emergency brake was still on and causing the "problem." She wasn't a moron, either.)

[Farrar]

It's still in the garage, but I have made the decision to prioritize repairs which prevent the car from being roadworthy, in order to get it on the road as soon as possible.

I need to put the interior back together. The reason the rear of the interior is apart is because of water leaks. The water was coming in through two holes in the body behind the rear speakers. I patched them with some cut-to-fit aluminum and RTV silicone.

1917519176

In addition to the RTV you can see, there's RTV between the fiberglass and the aluminum. I used almost an entire 8-oz. tube and boy, does that stuff stink when it's drying. The extra bead around the edges might not have been necessary, but since the bend in the aluminum and the curve of the body was not an exact match, I decided to add the bead around the edge anyway. I will have to wait a while to test the fix -- the car also needs new door seals.

[Farrar]

I tested the above repairs by forcing water down the side vents. All the water came out through the quarter panels, so it looks like my repair was sufficient.

Even though the poll is not closed yet, I decided that I need to put the car on the road ASAP and fix things as I go. Now that I've repaired the car's electrical problems, or at least 99% of them, I can get to work on the mechanical problems.

The largest hangup before driving the car is lack of air conditioning, but I'm almost done with that. Everything but the condenser in my car's a/c system has been replaced. The system has been converted to R-134a, and a heavy-duty Variable Orifice Valve has been inserted in place of the stock orifice tube. Also, since my car is an early VIN, I added a high-pressure safety switch. Now that the system is leak-free, once I replace the fuel pump I can start the car, pull it out of the garage, re-charge the a/c, and test it.

The headliner is still sagging, the sun visors are gone (leaving rust spots on the headliner), and the rear trim panels have lost most of the vinyl overlap which goes underneath the inner door seals, but that's minor stuff which can be fixed while the car is otherwise roadworthy. (I think it is possible to drive a vehicle without headliners...)

Once the a/c is done, and the new inner door seals are installed, I should be able to road-test the vehicle. It will continue to mark its territory, so to speak, from underneath the transmission's final drive, until I replace the passenger-side output flange seal. (Note: the flanges have speedi-sleeves and seals from Grady already installed, but one of the seals seems to have failed prematurely.)

Thanks, everyone, for your opinions and suggestions. Here's hoping I get to drive the car before the end of summer!

[Kenny_Z]

(I think it is possible to drive a vehicle without headliners...)


I drove mine the first couple of months without them because it was sagging too much. It'd block the mirror and touch the top of my head. It felt claustrophobic.