Radiator fans - low amperage replacement options?

[DeLorean]

What have people used for the replacement of the original units? The electric motor has come a long way since 1981, and I'm sure there are some good low amp replacements that make the same airflow amount and will help keep the wiring from melting!

Pictures are a plus too.

[Cory W]

I'm running these (http://www.delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K4001DP-A&Category_Code=9475) from Misty and Toby at DeLorean Parts Northwest. They're Plug & Play. I cannot say enough good things about these fans. You can also purchase them, pre-installed, in a new shroud (http://www.delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K4001DP-AS&Category_Code=9475) if you so choose.

[Chris 16409]

First, if you really are still using a Ducellier alternator, I would replace it yesterday. You don't want it leaving you stranded. I have a nice slightly used DMCH alternator I was keeping as a backup, but might consider selling if you wanted one.

As for the fans, there are choices from Toby Peterson (from DPNW) and John Hervey (Special T Auto). Here are the coresponding websites:

http://www.delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K4001DP-A&Category_Code=9475

http://www.delorean-parts.com/delorean-parts-images/Fans-no-shroud.jpg


http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/cooling-system.html

http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/radiator-fans-front-2.jpg


I have Toby's fans and really like them. You can buy them already mounted in a new shroud, or buy them separately and use your existing one.

[Ashyukun]

I'll third Toby's DPNW fans- they were a snap to install (especially compared to getting the radiator out in the first place :P) and are as has been stated literally plug and play into the existing harness.

[DeLorean03]

I'll chime in and back John's fans. Have had them I believe 4 years now, and worth every single, last, little penny. So quiet you almost don't even know they're on. No preference over Toby - just who I went with. Both products are superior over the original fans.

[DCUK Martin]

First, if you really are still using a Ducellier alternator, I would replace it yesterday. You don't want it leaving you stranded. I have a nice slightly used DMCH alternator I was keeping as a backup, but might consider selling if you wanted one.


My 110A Valeo units are a direct replacement for the Ducellier, using the original plug! (but probably twice the price by the time it gets stateside :( )

[jmrydholm]

I got rid of my Motorolla alternator just recently, but the fans on mine are still stock. The 140 amp alt. seems to have helped quite a bit, there's no longer such a battery "dip" on the dash needle when they kick in.

[David T]

With the stock fans and the A/C running you can actually feel it in the gas pedal when the fans and the A/C kick on and off. I have a Fanzilla and it helped a LOT. Too bad you can't get them anymore. The Fanzilla staggers the fans so they don't both start at the same time. If I didn't have the Fanzilla I would probably replace the fans with the newer, low draw motors.
David Teitelbaum

[John U]

Joe cool does the same thing and I find it works great....also no longer available though

[Chris 16409]

The same effect can be attained by using two of Dave's new solid state fan relays.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The same effect can be attained by using two of Dave's new solid state fan relays.

Even using the one relay, it delays the fans by one (or was it two) seconds. That way the clutch electrical load and compressor engine load has time to recover idle RPM before the fans turn on.

[Farrar]

I bought plain 12" radiator fans from Sherco Automotive. Bench testing revealed powerful air movement at a much lower amperage than stock Bosch fans. Didn't come with a shroud, but did come with adjustable brackets. When I get around to installing the fans, I'll let you know how it goes.

Farrar

[stevedmc]

I bought plain 12" radiator fans from Sherco Automotive. Bench testing revealed powerful air movement at a much lower amperage than stock Bosch fans. Didn't come with a shroud, but did come with adjustable brackets. When I get around to installing the fans, I'll let you know how it goes.

Farrar

I was considering Toby's fans but wow, the Sherco fans are dirt cheap and the blades look the same as Toby's.

http://www.sherco-auto.com/fan.htm

Do you know of anyone who has installed these and is there anything special that needs to be done to mount them?

For comparison purposes, the Sherco fans are $36 each and draw 7 amps each. Toby's are $200 for the complete set which is a direct bolt on part and with plugs that don't need to be modified.


Edit:

Sherco Fan 1617 CFM @ 7 amps (per fan) $36/each $72/pair
Toby 1248 CFM @ 7 amps (per fan) $200/pair


I am still wondering if there would be any mounting problems but the harness wouldnt be an issue since you can reuse the harness from the old fans.

[Farrar]

I was considering Toby's fans but wow, the Sherco fans are dirt cheap and the blades look the same as Toby's.

Don't get too excited -- although the fans come with plastic brackets which seem adjustable, I think it's a good idea to assume they won't fit out of the box. I was planning on making some aluminum brackets out of an appropriately-sized L or U-channel. (I was also going to install fresh Molex connectors on both ends after I worked out which polarity is correct for these fans.) So yes, they may be cheaper, but I always assume more work will be required to get them to fit our application.

Farrar

[stevedmc]

Don't get too excited -- although the fans come with plastic brackets which seem adjustable, I think it's a good idea to assume they won't fit out of the box. I was planning on making some aluminum brackets out of an appropriately-sized L or U-channel. (I was also going to install fresh Molex connectors on both ends after I worked out which polarity is correct for these fans.) So yes, they may be cheaper, but I always assume more work will be required to get them to fit our application.

Farrar

I'll probably hold out until you replace yours before I make a decision. My fans are working fine but I don't have much faith in such an important 30 year old part. They will get replaced eventually.

Your fans will require more work to install but the airflow is higher than Tobys. Although I do like the idea of Tobys if they will save a lot of headache.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

Stock fans according to Toby are rated at 1100 total CFM and take 25-30 amps draw. according to John Hervey

Toby's fans are advertised at 2496 CFMs at 14amps draw.

What are John's fans CFMs and amperage?

[DCUK Martin]

Stock fans ... take 25-30 amps draw.

During startup maybe, I measured mine at 7A each, 14A total whilst running.

[WelmoedJ]

John's fans are said to draw 5.5 Amps running, which is 11 Amps total.
His fan shrouds are metal.

I have seen those at DCS 2008 and like them very much.
I also consider the lower power consumption a plus, especially as I have rewired the electronically controlled "otterstat" to keep the fans on after a long drive (with IGN switched off).

[Farrar]

I have rewired the electronically controlled "otterstat" to keep the fans on after a long drive (with IGN switched off).

Welmoed, nice to see you again! :)

I was thinking of doing something similar for my fan circuit but could not figure out how to do it. May I ask how you managed this function?

Thanks,
Farrar

[dmc6960]

I would consider CFM airflow the most critical, amperage draw second. I have the first-gen Toby fans that use an S-blade and are without a shroud. I'm looking into getting a shroud back on because it does increase the air movement over the radiator/condenser. More airflow = more cooling for both the motor and the cabin A/C.

[WelmoedJ]

Welmoed, nice to see you again! :)

I was thinking of doing something similar for my fan circuit but could not figure out how to do it. May I ask how you managed this function?

Thanks,
Farrar

Yes, of course you may ask :)
A warning in advance, however: don't use a power-always-on wire to an original otterstat! If that one dies in a closed state it will drain your battery.

I have installed a wire from the 12V post in the engine bay (inline fused at 10Amps) to the relay belonging to the electronic otterstat setup and connected it instead of the green wire (powered through fuse 5 if IGN is on).
BTW: the 10A fuse can be 5A too as fuse 5 also serves to protect the instruments panel and some other stuff. However I had no 5A fuse, so....

That's all.

[Beachdrifter]

I use Hervey's replacement at specialtauto.com.

It's small, lightweight, and works great. Doesn't pull that much amperage.

I recommend it. :headbang:

On the original DMCTALK Forum I had a DIY write-up w/ pics. Wish I had saved it. :(

--Randy

[Bitsyncmaster]

Fan currents should be measured with the engine running and a good alternator installed. A lot of values have been measured and posted and results are very different.

If you have long test leads on your current meter you will drop quite a bit of voltage and get lower readings.

I have John's fans and my testing shows about 8 amps each with 14.6 volts on the electrical system.

You also have to check the current with them mounted in the car. Testing on the bench will yield lower currents without the blockage of the radiator.

[Farrar]

Welmoed, I know this is off topic, but with your modification to give constant power source to the thermal trip, have you considered an electric water pump? This would be the ultimate setup for "cooling down without the engine running."

Farrar

[WelmoedJ]

Welmoed, I know this is off topic, but with your modification to give constant power source to the thermal trip, have you considered an electric water pump? This would be the ultimate setup for "cooling down without the engine running."

Farrar

Yes, I have considered that option, but I can't find a place to properly hook up such a pump. For now I just leave it as is. This set up works well without problems or (noticeable) battery drain.

Now my first priority is John Herveys fans.
One propellor ran off of the fanmotor due to the a broken locking pin (helps the propellor turn when the motor axle is turning). This broken pin caused play so the locking clip keeping the propellor on the axle jumped off and so did the propellor. Fortunately without damaging the radiator.

[Farrar]

While we're on the subject, could someone who has stock fans and shroud installed please tell me the gap between the fan blades and the radiator surface? My car's shroud is broken so I can't get an accurate measurement, and I need this information for a proposed replacement fan solution.

Thanks,
Farrar

[Nicholas R]

I measured my draw it just barely under 20amps per fan two weeks ago :jawdrop:. I placed an order for Toby/Misty's fans last friday so that should change soon. :D

[Farrar]

Yes, I have considered that option, but I can't find a place to properly hook up such a pump.

I would simply connect the DC motor to the shaft where the pulley is now. To my mind, current draw is the largest consideration -- a 1/2 horsepower DC motor can pull 39 amps at 12 volts running at 1800 RPM! So I am also leaving the water pump as is. :)

Farrar

[David T]

If you converted to an electric water pump you will have to figure out a way to run a Vee belt to the alternator. The electrical system in the Delorean, IMHO, is already maxed out. Adding a large load, even if you do decrease the load of the cooling fans, is not a great idea. BTW the water pump will be a continuous load, the cooling fans are not. Some ideas are not worth doing. Just because you can is not usually a good reason for doing things. The fans should be set back as far as practical without interfering with the frame and leaving enough room for the air to get away from the fans. The shroud creates a suction duct so they fans do not have to be right on the radiator. The big problem with such a design is if one fan isn't working the other fan will not pull air through the radiator. One of the big reasons for the fan fail light. On the later model Lotus's they have THREE fans! And a really heavy duty relay with thick wires. If you do go with Spall type fans I would mount them right onto the radiator with tabs. BTW no one has checked if the low current draw type fans allow as much air to pass through when they aren't running like when the car is moving forward. On some cars they have a small piece of rubber on the shroud that acts like a check valve to allow air to bypass the fans when they aren't running.
David Teitelbaum

[Farrar]

Some ideas are not worth doing.

Oh, I never said it was a good idea. ;) I just like kicking around theoretical things in my head.

Farrar

[Farrar]

How difficult is it to replace the fans, anyway? You don't have to drop the radiator, do you?

Farrar

[Chris 16409]

How difficult is it to replace the fans, anyway? You don't have to drop the radiator, do you?

When I did mine, I had the sway bar out and I removed both upper and lower radiator brackets. The radiator kind of just hung by it's hoses. You may want to support it with a jack, jack stand, or something similar. It may be a bit of a challenge to get the fan shroud out if it is still fully intact. A PO had cut some notches in the shroud to facilitate an easier removal.

[content22207]

It's a whole lot easier to install the condensor/radiator/fans as a single assembly. All you have to is lift them up and install the lower brackets. Plus it's a piece of cake to install the 5mm bolts that hold everything together while they're laying on the ground.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[dhaney]

It's a whole lot easier to install the condensor/radiator/fans as a single assembly. All you have to is lift them up and install the lower brackets. Plus it's a piece of cake to install the 5mm bolts that hold everything together while they're laying on the ground.

Bill Robertson
#5939

True but it isn't terribly difficult to leave the condensor /radiator in place and R&R the fans either. I did mine in a few hours without having to remove a single hose.

Of course your mileage may vary since I have small hands and could easily get to all of the 5mm bolts that hold the fan shroud to the radiator. I love my DMCNW fans and how quiet they are compared to stock.

Dan

[Bitsyncmaster]

I was able to get all the small bolts off the shroud. So all I needed to do was drop the front end of the sway bar so the OEM fan motors would just drop straight down.

Take your time with those small bolts, work them back and forth if they move hard and you should not break any. I think I also used a universal joint with my 1/4" drive.

[Farrar]

My fan shroud is broken in at least one place, including a giant gap on the passenger side, so I'm not too concerned about getting it off in one piece. It's not going back on.

From what I can tell, the shroud is held onto the radiator by six small bolts which screw into the rear of the radiator. Am I missing something? Are there nuts on the other side -- is that the part that makes it difficult?

Edit: 5mm bolts? Drat, I bought an 8mm flexi-wrench. :(

Farrar

[DMCMW Dave]

There are nuts on the other end of the bolts, except for the two on the brackets that span from the top of the radiator to the frame.

[dhaney]

There are nuts on the other end of the bolts, except for the two on the brackets that span from the top of the radiator to the frame.

If I recall correctly they were studs that were somehow fixed in the front side (toward front of the car) and all I could get to or had to worry about was getting to the 5mm nuts and spinning them off for removal and then getting them back on upon installation.

Dan

[Farrar]

There are nuts on the other end of the bolts, except for the two on the brackets that span from the top of the radiator to the frame.

I see on an unmounted radiator, viewing from the rear, three holes at the top and three at the bottom, facing the rear. Is that where the bolts or studs are?

Farrar

[WelmoedJ]

While we're on the subject, could someone who has stock fans and shroud installed please tell me the gap between the fan blades and the radiator surface? My car's shroud is broken so I can't get an accurate measurement, and I need this information for a proposed replacement fan solution.

Thanks,
Farrar

If you were going to install John Herveys fans and shrouds (1 for each fan) you most likely have the proper spacing between propellor and radiator.
If can can hang in for a day I'll measure the distance between my currently stock setup.

For now I only can tell you that putting the clip on the fan motor axle with the propellor in place has been done without removing shroud or fan/motor assembly from the car.
I just had sufficient space in between the propellor and radiator to move around with my fingers and get the clip on the axle. This may give you a hunch as I recall your hands and fingers to be about the size of mine.

[rddmc]

I wonder if it is possible to install a new radiator in an IHOP parking lot?

Rod
10921

[Farrar]

If you were going to install John Herveys fans and shrouds (1 for each fan) you most likely have the proper spacing between propellor and radiator.
If can can hang in for a day I'll measure the distance between my currently stock setup.

No problem waiting as I will be out of town this weekend and unable to work on my car until at least Tuesday. :)

Thanks, Welmoed!

Farrar

[WelmoedJ]

I have somewhat measured the distance between axle end and the radiator and found it to be at least 2.0 cm (about 4/5 of an inch).
Due to the space I couldn't get an exact reading.

However this should be a sufficient and safe distance for you to rebuild your fan shroud.

[klaus5980]

I replaced my radiator and fans last year with the aluminium radiator + fans from DMC-Europe and the aluminium AC-Condenser from Hervey. I also replaced the radiator brackets with self made stainless brackets.
The fans run only half as much as before

See: http://www.steinerklaus.de/dmc/ac-cooling/index.html

[WelmoedJ]

There's nothing wrong with the DMC EU setup.
I only wonder about ease of dismounting once a fan fails.
Getting the fan out of the RTV will be quite a job!
That's why I go for John Herveys fan setup.

BTW: Rod,
Dismounting and installing fan on a parking area is not my kind of work space.
Mind that you need at least a good jack and axle stands and of course the tools for the job.
If the job proves more difficult, e.g. you need to dismount the radiator (and perhaps have to get rid of some coolant) I would prefer a better shelter.

[rddmc]

Welmoed,
There is an urban legend in the DeLorean community about Bill installing a new radiator in his car while on the IHOP parking lot in Pigeon Forge. I did not witness the alleged feat.

Rod
10921

[Domi]

Hi Klaus,
Beautiful engine pictures!

[WelmoedJ]

:giggle:
Welmoed,
There is an urban legend in the DeLorean community about Bill installing a new radiator in his car while on the IHOP parking lot in Pigeon Forge. I did not witness the alleged feat.

Rod
10921

:giggle: Having met Bill at DCS 2008, I now understand the remark. I think he's the one who could actually do it. One hand tied behind his back??

[Farrar]

That was Louie Golden's radiator; he drove into a concrete parking barrier.

Farrar

[rddmc]

So the legend is based on a factual event. Any details regarding how long it took, etc.?

Rod
10921

[rddmc]

:bigclap::bigclap:So the legend is based on a factual event. Any details regarding how long it took, etc.?

Rod
10921

[Farrar]

Ask Louie. He's here somewhere...

Farrar

[content22207]

:bigclap::bigclap:So the legend is based on a factual event. Any details regarding how long it took, etc.?

Rod
10921

We did it between breakfast and caravaning home (including locating Josh Haldeman to buy a used radiator) -- a couple of hours I guess. I travel with 1.25" hose, which other than the radiator itself is the only thing that could have prevented us from finishing the job.

If I'm not mistaken #5252 is still running that radiator to this day.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[rddmc]

Thanks Bill for the details.

Rod
10921

[content22207]

I distinctly remember that poor Louie didn't enjoy breakfast very much. Once we called Josh and verified he had a radiator Louie could use, the rest of us relaxed and didn't worry.

Bill Robertson
#5939