New LED Clock

[flux3d]

I've been trying to sort out a replacement clock as the clock on VIN10719 had been replaced years ago with an after market cruise control.
After quite a bit of research and development I've managed to manufacture a fully functioning replacement for the clock using modern components. It has battery back-up and comes complete with a new front lens, fixing points and enclosure. Time setting is pretty simple with one "push-button" hole, similar to the stock option. It also comes in a choice of colour: green, blue, red and amber. Both the front lens, enclosure and LED unit are supplied in the chosen colour.

Below are a few images of the unit I managed to take this weekend. The one in the actual dash is the blue version I created, but I'll take a few pics of the green version in the next couple of days in VIN 10719, just to give you an idea.

All parts are laser cut to size, and the lens is a perfect fit. Connection to the car is simply via a live and ground 12V wire, which can be done to the original clock wiring, or as I have done to a permanent 12V feed (similar to the amp). The unit simply bolts onto the original clock fitting posts under the console plate with two washers and two nuts and is very secure.

In effect the units are "version 1.6" (a few alterations after testing so far) so I've not tested them long-term, but the electronics are good, and held secure in the frame. Any suggestions or criticisms are welcome.

I'm just posting on here to see what everyone thinks. I've got a few units I'm going to sell in the UK to DeLorean owners over here, but I can't see why I couldn't sell them to you guys in the US if people are interested. Just let me know what you think. I'd be very interested in hearing all your thoughts.

Mark

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[Michael]

Nicely done! If I were looking for one, i would have to ask, does it come in 12h mode as well?

[flux3d]

not at the moment, but I'm looking into that. Also doing a version which uses a smaller LED display at 0.3", which is more OEM.

In addition to the above info the battery is good for up to TWO YEARS back-up, so it can be wired into the ignition so the display only comes on with the ignition....

[DMC81]

Nice job, looks very nice. Any idea on price yet?

[DeLorean03]

Any idea on price yet?

My main question as well.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

How does it compare with this version?

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3751-Replacement-clock-for-DeLorean-DMC-12&highlight=digital+clock

[Dangermouse]

I have heard a price mentioned elsewhere and I think it is really reasonable, but it is up to the OP to set it here.

Hope he posts it soon. ;)

[jawn101]

This is a great idea and probably a huge relief to those who wanted a replacement dash clock. Smaller and greener numbers in 12H format for those who want to have some touch of originality would probably help shift a lot more units, but excellent work either way!!

Very curious on price as well, since the other reproduction mentioned above was kind of steep.

[topcop66]

Want !!!

[Domi]

Another great clock improvement, like the others, just curious about the price?

[SAVAGE]

Very cool!

[Morpheus]

Nice!

[Bitsyncmaster]

Since you only use two wires (+12 and ground), how much current does it draw? I would guess your LEDs are always on.

[LEVY]

Since you only use two wires (+12 and ground), how much current does it draw? I would guess your LEDs are always on.

I think is what he said, but it can be switched due to a good battery back up.

LEVY

Note: I believe you can upgrade to three wire but you don't want any more power eating devices in your car. To me, two wire with battery back up should do it!

Correction: An extra wire for dimming would be nice.

[flux3d]

Right, here goes. Sorry not to have gotten back to everyone sooner but been at work all day, and the time difference doesn't help. But in an attempt to answer questions:

Price: At the moment I've only produced seven units, six in green and one in blue. I've put five of them up as "prototypes" for sale at about £55 in the UK, which is about $85. Now, this is a price based on the fact that they are "prototypes" rather than the final item, so its an "testing the water" price. I managed to get the cases made for free, as a "favour", so any larger numbers would have to include the cost of materials, but I don't think this would add too much. But, sticking my neck out on this one I'd probably be looking at a price of between $100 and $120. Postage from the UK to the US, via Royal Mail Airsure would be an additional $20, is insured for the total amount, traceable and takes four days. Obviously I might be able to find cheaper postage. At the end of the day I developed the clock because my car needed a clock. If I can help the community, plus make a little above cost for my time and effort then that's great for me. I want to keep the price reasonable so as many people as possible can benefit. What do people think to the price?

12H version: At the moment I haven't got a 12H version, but I'm working on that. I'll keep people posted.

How does it compare to this version? (see above post) Well, my version come with a new lens, plus a case created from the same plastic as the lens. PLUS you get a brand new, unscratched lens included. So, if like me your D came without a clock then this will work just fine. I'm not sure about the later VIN numbers who have the hole for the clock but no actual clock. Do these cars have the steel threaded "posts" to attach a clock or not? Maybe someone can let me know.

The display does not dim with headlights on, but maybe that's a possible development.

If wired into a live 12V feed from the ignition the unit has zero power draw when the ignition is off (clock display also off). The clock has a long-life battery which should keep the clock alive for two years without additional power. Its also very simple to replace and is the widely available coin cell type.

Time setting: This is done through a single press button, similar in size as the original OEM version. It advances the time, slowly at first and then faster if kept depressed. Tapping the button once time-setting is activated advances the minutes one at a time.

Smaller numbers in green and blue: I've managed to find a smaller display, either 0.3" or 0.4" in height. Either of these would be available in green or blue. Which size do people think would be best? I can also make them in amber or red, if people want something different. The lead time would be longer for these custom orders, around five weeks.

Power consumption and is it always on?: The power consumption is about 100-150ma (depending on the amount of segments illuminated. If it's wired to a 12V from the ignition then the display only lights when the key it turned to position 1 and onwards. At all other times the display is off and it runs in hibernation mode off the battery (two years life in this mode alone).

Hope this helps to answer some questions, especially the "price" of the units. I'm going to try to get some better pictures of how it fixes to the car, looks in the dash (green version), plus I'll do a video version to give people a really good idea in the next couple of days and update the thread here.

Thanks for everyone's enthusiasm. :frantic:

[Dangermouse]

As reference, what size are the characters in the first photos?

[dmc6960]

Your only "live" demo image did not show the colon ":" between the hours and minutes. Was it blinking off at the time of the photo or is it not there?

The characters should be smaller, they really look out of place that large. The original clock's character height was good, the issue was viewing angle as the characters were sunk too far down from the lens for shorter folk. If you do another version, matching or closely matching the original character height should be the goal.

Regarding a 24 hour clock, nobody in America goes by 24 hour time except for military folk. I surely cannot speak for everyone but so far the general consensus verifies that. A 12 hour version would sell much better over here.

The later cars without clocks simply had a different shift plate with no opening at all for the clock. This part is no longer available and shift plates with the clock opening is all that remains. The later cars still had the original wiring for the clock in-place.

So, not to nitpick, but as someone also trying to develop a product to appeal to the most folks, those are my suggestions. Smaller characters, separation between hours and minutes, and a 12 hour count.

[flux3d]

Hi Dangermouse. The digits on the one in the photo are 0.56", so I'm thinking that something like 0.4" would be more OEM. This I can do, and I'll probably have a working prototype in a few weeks with that size.

Dmc6960

Yeah, there is a colon ":" between the numbers, which flashes every second. I probably just missed it on the photograph. When I do the new pictures in the car and the video it'll become more obvious. Watch this space.

The 12H issue. Yes, I agree, the 12h version would be both more OEM and probably what people would want. Here in the UK we tend to use both about the same amount, so it's a matter of taste. I'm onto it and investigating how to change this in the next version. Again, watch this space.

So, colon: YES

smaller characters: YES

12H: Possibly - I'm working on it.

Hope this helps.

[Elvis]

Got an original broken clock ?

or just bought a new new one and don't need the old anymore ?


PM me, I am interested in the old one.

[OverlandMan]

I've been thinking about building one myself using an Arduino PCB and an Adafruit RTC & 4-digit 7-segment LED. Just the cost of those 3 components alone is around $50. Then I'd have to figure out a lens solution, mounting, shielding, etc. (My original lens is scratched and cracked in one corner) For $85-$100, this is a pretty good deal.

There have been other similar solutions I've seen (mostly overseas) in the $200-250 range. That was a little too high IMO.

flux3d - are you using something like an Arduino to program?

I'd be interested in one. It would save me the time and hassle for sure. Plus, if you're savvy with this stuff, you could probably hack it yourself and add stuff like 12 HR, dimmer options, etc.

Keep me posted on this project.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

I am interested at the price point you currently have.

I agree with what was stated by others:

-12 hour format
-Smaller font size/more like the original
-Green or Blue would be fine with me regarding color
-Dimming function is not a deal-breaker for me.
-Pre-wired/Plug-in-play would be a plus, but again, not a deal breaker

Please keep the price in this range and churn some good versions out and I'll buy from you!

-Josh Q

[DeLorean03]

I'm interested in purchasing one of the prototypes. Is that an option?

[ccurzio]

I am definitely interested in one of these.

[LEVY]

Interested only if it has a dimming option.


LEVY

[flux3d]

Well, I've started the investigation into the changes people have requested. Here is the progress so far:

12 Hour version - At the moment the electronics only support 24H operation. It might be possible to do a 12H version, but i'm waiting for an update on this. Bottom line is that if the existing 24 hour functionality is fine with you and you don't mind the larger size then I can supply one of the existing prototype ones (six available in green, one in blue) right away.

Smaller size: Yes, I can do this, but at the moment again only in 24 hour format. Like above I'm working on a work around for 12 hour functionality but it might mean a complete re-design of the PCB. I'll also need to create a new case for these to support the smaller size, so we're looking at about five weeks before these are ready.

LED display that can be dimmed This seems quite hard to do with the present PCB as its designed to take a voltage of between 12-24V and keep the display constant. Again possible in the future, but could be a couple of months at least. The size and 12 hour functionality is at the top of my list. I need to talk this one over with the key that helped to design the original.

Separate New Lens for OEM clocks Yes, a couple of people have asked for just the lens for their OEM clocks which work fine. I'm going to create a separate, OEM replica of the original lens which will also be available to buy. I'm working on this at the moment and will hopefully have a prototype soon for people to look at.

If people want to buy one of the original, larger, 24H prototypes then please PM me. There are six available in green and one in blue. Price is $105, which includes P&P to the US. This is a special price based on them being a V1 prototype, but they are all carefully produced and work very well. First come, first served! I'll allocate via PM order.

Mark

[dmc6960]

Regarding dimming, I believe the primary goal should just be to dim the display a small fixed amount when the lights are on, in similar form to the backlight on the AC panel. Just enough to be a comfortable brightness at night compared to the rest of the instuments. Active control via the rheostat would be nice, but not nearly as essential as a basic "dim when lights are on" function. This shouldn't be hard to implement at all.

[DrJeff]

Regarding dimming, ... Active control via the rheostat would be nice, but not nearly as essential as a basic "dim when lights are on" function. This shouldn't be hard to implement at all.

I got an LED dimming module from the auto parts store that does a step-down dimming ($9 - looks like it cost $0.25). Tap it 1-4 times and it cycles through some preset dimming modes. Of course, if you're working with LEDs then it still need to be a PWM, but that the M is not variable. Perhaps Bitsyncmaster knows of an IC that can do this?

[Bitsyncmaster]

I got an LED dimming module from the auto parts store that does a step-down dimming ($9 - looks like it cost $0.25). Tap it 1-4 times and it cycles through some preset dimming modes. Of course, if you're working with LEDs then it still need to be a PWM, but that the M is not variable. Perhaps Bitsyncmaster knows of an IC that can do this?

I just finished a test project for adjusting LEDs with a PWM circuit. I used a PIC 12F1501 microprocessor which has four PWM channels and four analog input channels. So I put a 10 Kohm trim pot on the analog channel and in software it reads that value and moves it to the PWM channel. You can build a PWM circuit with a few op-amps and resistors and caps but the micro is so simple and costs less.

[OverlandMan]

I just finished a test project for adjusting LEDs with a PWM circuit. I used a PIC 12F1501 microprocessor which has four PWM channels and four analog input channels. So I put a 10 Kohm trim pot on the analog channel and in software it reads that value and moves it to the PWM channel. You can build a PWM circuit with a few op-amps and resistors and caps but the micro is so simple and costs less.

Dave - I'm wondering if you couldn't accomplish the same thing (dimming the LED board) with code on an Arduino board. Are you familiar with these?

http://www.arduino.cc/

[Bitsyncmaster]

Dave - I'm wondering if you couldn't accomplish the same thing (dimming the LED board) with code on an Arduino board. Are you familiar with these?

http://www.arduino.cc/

I'm sure you can do it with any micro but it's hard to beet the $0.68 cost of the PIC. Of course you will need a driver if your LED is running on 12 volts.

[flux3d]

During the restoration of VIN 10719 I toyed with the idea of repairing a broken clock I was given by Chris N at PJ Grady UK. The vacuum display was broken and I thought I might be able to get a replacement part and just solder it into place.

Well the vacuum displays are VERY hard to come by (being out of manufacture), so the project kind of stalled there. But one thing I did start, and have now completed, is the creation of a replacement lens for the original OEM clock. I thought you guys might be interested in seeing what it looked like. Again, I've posted it up here in the UK as a possible item I can produce to order. You could even have them made in other colours, suck as blue, red or amber.

I can even create blanks for those that want to put a switch or something in place of the clock, or print a full colour texture onto the lens to order. maybe something like a carbon fibre look.

Last pic is the original lens, which was well past its best!

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[OverlandMan]

During the restoration of VIN 10719 I toyed with the idea of repairing a broken clock I was given by Chris N at PJ Grady UK. The vacuum display was broken and I thought I might be able to get a replacement part and just solder it into place.

Well the vacuum displays are VERY hard to come by (being out of manufacture), so the project kind of stalled there. But one thing I did start, and have now completed, is the creation of a replacement lens for the original OEM clock. I thought you guys might be interested in seeing what it looked like. Again, I've posted it up here in the UK as a possible item I can produce to order. You could even have them made in other colours, suck as blue, red or amber.

I can even create blanks for those that want to put a switch or something in place of the clock, or print a full colour texture onto the lens to order. maybe something like a carbon fibre look.

Last pic is the original lens, which was well past its best!

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How much just for the lens?

[dmc6960]

Love the "DMC" cover on the phone you used to take the pictures.

[DMC5180]

Would PWM (dimming) of the 12V feed effect the time keeping function of the clock? Is the clock timer function run OFF the grid by the internal battery only or is that just for memory purposes?

What is the purpose of the Blue and black wires coiled in the back of your clock? Time set button?

[john 05141]

Do the new lenses have the 2 holes for the time adjusting buttons?

Jan

[flux3d]

They sure do. I used the original as a guide, although I don't have the actua buttons them selves.

[flux3d]

Well there are only a couple of the original green larger number LED clocks left. If anyone want one then please PM me. $105, including postage to the US.

I've also created quite a few of the replacement clock lenses (as shown above), all in OEM green. $45, including postage to the US. I have about twenty made up of these so far, but can also make them up to order in either blue or red if people wish.

Anyone interested then drop me a line. Plus, any questions feel free to ask.

Mark

[OverlandMan]

I recieved mine last night and I'm very pleased. The review post can be seen here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7530-Flux3d-s-LED-CLock&p=110320#post110320

[dmcnorway]

Are these the ones that DMC Houston now offers?

Stian Birkeland
Norway



I recieved mine last night and I'm very pleased. The review post can be seen here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7530-Flux3d-s-LED-CLock&p=110320#post110320

[OverlandMan]

Are these the ones that DMC Houston now offers?

Stian Birkeland
Norway

To my knowledge DMCH does not sell LED replacement clocks. I had contacted James about this a few months ago. http://store.delorean.com/p-7029-clock.aspx

This clock that we're discussing in this thread is made by Flux3d in the UK.

[DeLorean03]

Whoops. Last track of this thread and was intrested in getting one. Oh well, guess I'll way until a new batch is made/prototypes move into production.

[flux3d]

Hi stian. As Jef said DMC don't make an led replacement clock at the moment,which is why I came up with this design to fill the gap. I still have one of the green versions left and have the bits to makea blue version as well. I'm then going to order in the parts to make new ones but this time with smaller sized digits which ate more in keeping with the original clock.

Thanks for the great review Jef. The led clock looks great in that dash . looks like you have a very well presented car as well . really nice to hear your pleased with your purchase.

Mark

[flux3d]

Here is the new version of the clock. The new version features a smaller display which is more in keeping with the size of the original OEM clock.


New smaller display
battery backup when the clock is off
Time adjustment with a single button
bright and clear display
solid construction
24H clock
available in green and blue


A review of the previous version (and maybe the new ones when they go out) can be found HERE (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7530-Flux3d-s-LED-CLock) and also here in http://dmctx.blogspot.com/2013/07/led-clock.html

The new versions are $125, which includes postage to the US via recorded, signed for air mail.

In addition I'm also offering a new service where text or an image/design can be laser etched onto the lower part of the clock lens to customise the look of the clock. All you need to do is send me an image (black and white best) or the text you want adding to the lens. $25 extra for this service. I'll be doing a sample soon and will upload pictures for everyone to see.

Either contact me through here, or at [email protected]

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[Tillsy]

21290

Your hazard switch is upside down ;)

[flux3d]

yeah, its been like that since I got it. Thought I'd leave it. Another "individual" feature. :smile:

[Dmcfan1981]

Is there a 12 hour clock option?

[flux3d]

not at the moment dmcfan. Most units are 24H these days. I have an ongoing project with someone looking at this, but its not in the horizon at the moment. Most things, like phones, appliances and new cars are 24H anyway.

[Bitsyncmaster]

not at the moment dmcfan. Most units are 24H these days. I have an ongoing project with someone looking at this, but its not in the horizon at the moment. Most things, like phones, appliances and new cars are 24H anyway.

In the USA it rare to use 24 hour time except in the military. We also use inch measurement on most metal stock and machining operations.

[flux3d]

Really, I never realised that 24H clocks were so rare in the US. However, with regards using imperial inches as an engineer and product designer I'm well versed in how the US uses such units. I remember as a child thinking this was odd, that in the UK (where imperial measurements started out) we no longer use it but rather metric, and in the US you do. However, to go back to the clocks at present I've made up a good thirty units using the 24H format, so these are the ones up for sale at present. I'll continue to investigate a 12H option, but don't want anyone waiting round for these to turn up in the near future. I'm not sure how long this will take. Believe me I've tried to find a unit which is in `12H or allows you to choose, but nothing so far. Same for the option of dimming.But I'll keep plugging at it.

In the meantime those that have these already seem really happy. :hihi2:

[DeLorean03]

I have his prototype clock (bigger digits), and am super-satisfied with it. If military time is the deciding factor, if the time is 1300+, just subtract 12 from it to know the present time.

Ex: 1502 = 302 = 3:02 pm.

His clock is great - so glad it came out!

[flux3d]

The units are selling fairly quick, both here in the USA and in Europe, and I'm thrilled with the feedback from people so far. With Autumn and Winter approaching, and the inevitable various jobs that will probably be keeping me busy (VOD cleaning and possibly another mk2 VW golf project to keep me busy) I'm reducing the price of the clock units to $105, which as always includes postage and packaging!

The stock I have left is as follows:

12 X Green smaller (OEM size).
3 X Blue smaller (OEM size).
2 X Green larger sized digits.

First come first served on these, especially the blue smaller units, which have proved popular.

Message me on here or [email protected] if interested.

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[OverlandMan]

I have his prototype clock (bigger digits), and am super-satisfied with it. If military time is the deciding factor, if the time is 1300+, just subtract 12 from it to know the present time.

Ex: 1502 = 302 = 3:02 pm.

His clock is great - so glad it came out!

Agreed. I also have one of his earlier clocks and I'm very satisfied. I set all the digital clocks I have to 24-hr. From a logical perspective, it makes so much more sense.

[flux3d]

Thanks overlander. Glad your still pleased with it. Lets hope it lasts another 30 odd years!

[Michael]

You will kill it with a 12H option...I would even buy one just to have in case.

[Mark D]

I'd also buy one if it was 12h and not 24h format. Maybe even two!

[flux3d]

Hi guys. I've decided, as a kind of late January sale, to reduce the cost of these units down to $95. This includes post and packaging to the USA. This might be you're last chance to get hold of one of these clock for a while. I've not ordered in any more parts for these versions, and the new version has had to take a back seat due to demands of work. (always the way huh). Therefore I'm clearing all my stock of these units that I have.

I have:-

8 small green, OEM LED clocks

1 small blue OEM LED clock

3 larger size green LED clocks

1 larger size blue LED clock

Once these are gone they are gone, and at present I have no intention of making any more for a while, so get in quick!

message me on here, or email me at [email protected]

[Jonathan]

Just emailed you from my gmail account Mark.

[flux3d]

Thanks for the great response guys. There are now only four of the green smaller clocks left, plus a couple of the larger green clocks and one large blue left.

[ccurzio]

Am I correct in assuming that this is a simple plug-and-play swap?

If it is and you've got one that's OEM Green, I'd like to buy one.

[Lenny]

What if you don't have the cutout for the clock do you have to buy a new console (is that what its called)? Can you cut it out?

[Mcv200]

Mark, did you get my pm from yesterday? I want one of the large green ones.

Mike

[flux3d]

Hi Jonathan and Mike, yeah I've received your emails and hopefully you got my replies ok about your orders.

In reply to your questions Chris and Lenny, yes the whole unit is a pretty much straight swap over. The only modification is the connection to a 12V +/- supply, which can be the existing clock connection but would need some modification. The unit comes with a new lens, which fits perfectly into the original aperture without any modification. Just two nuts to be undone and that's it.

Mark

[Lenny]

Hi Jonathan and Mike, yeah I've received your emails and hopefully you got my replies ok about your orders.

In reply to your questions Chris and Lenny, yes the whole unit is a pretty much straight swap over. The only modification is the connection to a 12V +/- supply, which can be the existing clock connection but would need some modification. The unit comes with a new lens, which fits perfectly into the original aperture without any modification. Just two nuts to be undone and that's it.

Mark

I don't have a hole in the console. Do I need a new console.

[DMCMW Dave]

I don't have a hole in the console. Do I need a new console.

Don't cut yours up. The ones without the clock are harder to come by. The one with the hole is still available NOS. 108240 for $80.

Most modern stereos have a clock built in, and I've had folks looking for the console plate without the hole to eliminate the redundant clock.

[flux3d]

Well, these are selling fast!

I have only the following left:

3 X Small Green LED clocks

2 X Large Green LED Clocks


That's it. No blue versions left now I'm afraid. If you're interested in the last few then please either email me, or send me a PM. [email protected]

Thanks again to everyone for their interest and enthusiasm. I will be re-visiting this project when I have time.

Mark

[Jonathan]

I have my replacement console clock installed now. I went with the small green numbers one. I reused the old console clock wiring connector and soldered the two new wires from the replacement clock to the snipped ends of the connector wiring. Black to black and red (on the clock) to green (on the connector) to give me switched power only when the key is turned in the ignition. I can still quickly disconnect it for removal by reusing the existing connector. It is holding the time I set it for as well with the battery in place on the back.

I did have one question/comment. My numbers appear to be showing as a bit fuzzy or having a glare show up on the green tinted glass. I have seen some photos from other owners and did not see the same thing. My clock assembly was a bit loose when it arrived (and I'm not sure why or if it was as expected, and I can't rule out that Customs had a look at it when crossing the border during shipping). The wires that go from the tiny button for adjusting the time were not routed neatly under the glass layers into the back of the clock itself, but were routed around it for some reason. I don't know if this is what caused it, but it is a bit loose fitting overall as if there needs to be a bit more padding or foam strips making up the gap.

What I was wondering from others about the glare part is whether it might be from the clock face being either too close to the green tinted lense or perhaps not close enough? Again, it doesn't kind of stay on it's own in one position as there is a bit of slack that can have it going in or out a bit. For the time being and as it is installed right now, I have it pushed up against the lense and held in place by a small piece of electrical tape over the back. This was mostly because upon first installing it, it had shifted down only on one end and one side was fuzzy and the other wasn't because of the angle. I haven't seen a lot of photos of the clock disassembled to show me what the spacing should be, but I'm suspecting if I had a small thickness of padding or foam of some kind between the surface of the clock face (not blocking the numbers of course) and the underside of the glass, it might keep it snug and also back it off far enough that there isn't any glare.

Let me know if you have any ideas.

[flux3d]

Hi Jonathan,

That does sound very odd indeed. I make each replacement clock up myself, test it and pack it for transport. It's designed so that the four bolts go into the captured nuts and hold everything together firmly. I also use some foam pads at either end of the LED display to cushion and position the display. It sounds like customs, or someone else, has taken the clock apart along the way and messed things about. The "fuzzy" digits does sound like the display is far to close to the front lens section. Behind the front lens there should be a "secondary" lens. It's a rectangular section of the same laser cut material that the rest of the body and lens are made and cuts down the "glare" level of the LED display. While I was developing the original I experimented with using different coloured materials to create this "secondary lens" to try to get the exact tone of the original. However, in all those that I have sent out I have kept it as the same colour as the main lens. If this has somehow fallen out or been lost it would cause the effect you describe.

I've included some images below showing the construction and lenses. The "inner" secondary lens can be seen slightly lifted in one of the shots, next to the small bolt. If your's is missing just let me know and I can send out a replacement right away. Indeed, I can even send you a couple of different colours so you can experiment. If that's not the problem then if you can take some pictures of the clock I might be able to advise better, and if doesn't solve the problem I can always send you out a new clock case with instructions on how to assemble it (although its pretty straight forward :smile: ).

Hope this helps, and feel free to send me a message for any extra help.

Mark

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[Jonathan]

Thanks for the message Mark.

Mine looks essentially the same as the one in your photos. I was able to get it apart and account for all the pieces you mentioned. In the 3rd photo you have some sort of sealant/glob that is covering the connections for the wires. Was this added later in subsequent revisions? Mine doesn't have that and I'm trying to be fairly careful with pulling on the wires so not to yank them right off the board. That sealant looks to be a good idea as a "glue" of sorts.

I did locate the secondary lens. It is pretty snug in there and I don't want to force it trying to get it out for an inspection and break it. It seems like all of the green glass pieces are the same "darkness" although it is hard to tell when most of them you need to look through more than one layer, and then they appear darker just because you're looking through more of them at once. It seems to be as you made it and not lost by customs or whoever.

The small envelope/packaging you sent me did have a couple pieces of duct tape on the sides. It looks like it could have added by yourself as the places the tape connected were just to fold the envelope in half. It didn't seem to be taping up a place where it was opened and it was not covering any of your writing for the addresses. I don't know what the likelihood of someone opening it before I got it really.

Would the voltage from the car affect how bright it is? I'm not aware of my car overcharging the battery or whatever but thought I would ask. I hooked up a temporary 9 volt battery on my desk to the clock and it still comes on and seems a little less bright, but still has the glare effect.

The last idea I have is related to temperature. It is COLD in my garage right now and if the temperature alone isn't fooling around with how the clock looks, I wonder if there is just a slight bit of condensation on one or more of the glass surfaces and this is where the glare is coming from? The install is a piece of cake now that I have that connector on it, so I can easily just keep it as is in the car and wait until they officially announce Spring is cancelled and Summer is going to be here in June (just kidding). I won't be driving my car for a while still so how about I wait until it's a little more typical driving temperature day and report back?

[flux3d]

Hmmm, sounds very odd Jonathan. Can you take a picture of the glare? As you say it might be that condensation has gotten into the unit somehow. Maybe taking the secondary lens out and carefully cleaning the two parts might be all that's needed. I'm very careful when assembling them to make sure that I don't stick a great big fingerprint on the lens, but its always possible this might have happened. Voltage defiantly won't effect it. It has an operating voltage of 10V to 24V without effecting the display. 9V will have an effect. The display will illuminate, but you will having problems setting the time.

I agree, it does sound like the package wasn't opened, so I'm at a loss to explain the glare effect you talk about. Pictures would defiantly help though.

Yes, the later ones have this "hot melt glue" put over the contacts, just to keep them in there snug. It's just a dab of glue, and any regular hot melt glue or silicone would do the same job. In saying that once its in the car there is very little risk of them coming adrift.

[Jonathan]

Here's a few photos, Mark. I'm not sure they are capturing the exact image you see in person, but it is close. Without the camera itself adding to any blurriness, basically what the net result is is that the digits don't come out appearing crisp. Not from the clock display underneath itself, but from this reflection on the underside of the glass layers. Fuzzy might describe it well. It'd be like trying to make out details in your rearview mirror when you have it tipped forward to tint down the headlights shining at you from behind. The edges get fuzzy like that. Is that explaining it well enough for you to know what I mean? Thanks for the help.

261462614726148

[flux3d]

Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for the images, and yes that doesn't look right at all! The display should be crisp and sharp, and you shouldn't be able to see the outline of the inner "secondary lens" as you can in those images. It definitely looks like it has something in between the display and the lens.

My first thought when looking at that is that the inner "secondary lens" part may still have its protective film layer still on it. This is the protective layer which goes over the plastic to stop it getting scratched. I normally remove all of this film when assembling the clocks, except on the other lens where it protects the top lens from scratched until installed. It would be impossible for me to assemble the case without removing this film, but as the "inner" secondary lens is cut separately and then dropped into place I may have inadvertently left this film on this section. Maybe one of my late night "building sessions" where I just missed this bit.

If the above is the case you should be able to remove the for retaining bolts, take out the display module, and then carefully remove the inner lens. If the film is present on one side it can be easily peeled away. This should solve the problem.

Let me know how you get on.

Mark

[Jonathan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX1hgyMGuAE

Haha, ok, maybe not quite as dramatic or funny as marine biologist George and Kramer's golf ball, but I did get to locate the console clock equivalent of that Titleist and solve the problem.


My first thought when looking at that is that the inner "secondary lens" part may still have its protective film layer still on it.

You were totally right about the thin protective layer still being on the secondary lens. I managed to get it all apart, take off the film and reassemble without any casualties of cracked plastic or damaged wires and it now looks crisp and beautiful.

262002620126202

Thanks a lot for working with me to get it figured out. No problem on the late night building session idea, I know what you mean about life getting busy and not giving us the time we need to do certain stuff. I've had some recent reminders of that whole thing myself.

Glad we got it sorted out. Cheers :)

[flux3d]

BINGO!

I'm so glad that was it. One small bit of plastic can cause so much trouble. As soon as I saw your pictures I thought, "no way, surely I didn't....." but there you go, I did. Again so sorry for the goof, and glad it all went well in the end. Thanks for your patience Jonathan, and hope you like your now "sharp" new clock.

Enjoy.

Mark

[ccurzio]

I have a question...

I'm noticing that when I hook this clock up, it's powered on - ALL THE TIME. Even when the car is off and there's no key in the ignition.

How and why is this the case?

[Jonathan]

Hey Chris,

The two wires getting connected to something from the clock are red and black, right?

The four wires from the car going to the old clock connector are red, black, green and blue.

Black goes to black as the ground. But the tricky part is that red on the new clock doesn't go to red from the car/connector. Red on our cars in the clock wiring is the always on power, basically it was the "keep your clock settings when the car is off" power. The replacement clocks have a battery to do this on the back instead.

The blue wire has something to do with power from the rheostat wiring, but it is also not used.

The green wire from the car/connector is the one you want connected to the red wire of the replacement clock as this one gets powered only when the ignition key is turned.

Mark did mention the power draw is low on the always on power wire because of it being an LED, but I also would rather have it off when I'm not in the car so I used this green to red connection.

Sounds good?

[ccurzio]

Thanks for the info, Jonathan! I do indeed have it wired Red > Red and Black > Black. The clock came with no instructions, so I figured that's the way it was intended. :(

[flux3d]

Hi Chris. Jonathan is right. The green wire on our cars is the ignition wire and the one you want. Instructions wise it might be a good idea to include a couple of diagrams showing how to wire things for always on or on when ignition is turned to position two. I'll include it in any I send out from now on.

I'm still working on a 12H version as well. If I can get some time to focus on that I might have something soon.

[Jonathan]

Here is an installed picture. Good to go!!

26234

[Jonathan]

Hey Mark,

Question for you or perhaps someone else with your clock replacement and my same issue.

Have you seen any of the clocks keep time a bit too fast?

It's not dramatic, but when I have my GPS/speedo right above it, I can tell right away when they aren't in sync.

I have mine wired so that it comes on only when the key in the ignition is turned. It keeps the previous time well to my knowledge with the battery you built into it, it just gets showing a faster time over a month or so than the GPS shows.

I can confirm the GPS stays current to the real time as compared to my iPhone or the clock in the house. I thought it might have had something to do with disconnecting the battery at times when I'm working on something, but that shouldn't really matter with how it is wired (or does it?).

Earlier in the season I noticed it was about 11 minutes fast. I put it back to where it should have been around the DCS trip in June and then now it is about 6 or 7 minutes fast again.

Let me know if you have any thoughts or solutions. Thanks.

[flux3d]

Hi Jonathan.

Actually i have noticed a similar effect in my own car, but not quite as marked. The actual clock circuit of the product i buy in. Its designed as an after market autimotive clock, but I'm wondering if it might be effected by the voltage fluctuations in our cars. I've noticed no problems with the clock running from a fixed 12v supply, but when running the voltage tends to go up to 13.5v in the car. This might have the effect of speeding up the unit. In saying that I've only noticed about 13 minutes over a twelve month period.

As for a fix, well some kind of voltage regulator could work. Modern cars do have these as standard, but as 80's electronics were not as fussy about this type of thing our cars don't have such a system.

Hope this helps.

Mark

[Bitsyncmaster]

Hi Jonathan.

Actually i have noticed a similar effect in my own car, but not quite as marked. The actual clock circuit of the product i buy in. Its designed as an after market autimotive clock, but I'm wondering if it might be effected by the voltage fluctuations in our cars. I've noticed no problems with the clock running from a fixed 12v supply, but when running the voltage tends to go up to 13.5v in the car. This might have the effect of speeding up the unit. In saying that I've only noticed about 13 minutes over a twelve month period.

As for a fix, well some kind of voltage regulator could work. Modern cars do have these as standard, but as 80's electronics were not as fussy about this type of thing our cars don't have such a system.

Hope this helps.

Mark

Ambient temperature also effects crystal accuracy. Is your IC crystal controlled? You may also have an option to adjust the frequency to your circuit with some small trimmer caps (normally about 20 pf).

[GS450-Junkie]

Making any more? 12 HR clocks that is ??

[Jonathan]

That makes a lot of sense, Mark. The voltage part about being greater than 12 V causing the clock to run fast.

I'd imagine just like if you test a 12 V light bulb with a 9 V battery on your workbench it may come on but be dim. I wonder if that would work also in the other direction to run a clock with a 9 V connected and see if the clock keeps time too slow?

And come to think of it, it might be more or less in sync with how much you drive your car. If the car is off and the built in battery is keeping time, it's likely fine. But drive your car a lot with the 13+ V we tend to see and it slowly gets ahead. I put the clock in around the end of March, and before the car got driven this season. I've put about 2,200 miles on it or so, but can't say exactly how many hours that would work out to to compare clock operation. Works well enough for me!

You could be right about the temperature dependant part, Dave. Not 100% sure of all that you mentioned as I'm still trying to translate some of it to a language I understand!! hehe Maybe Mark would know?

[Bitsyncmaster]

I would guess the clock circuit has a voltage regulator and runs on 5.0 or 3.3 volts when powered by the car. The internal battery probably drives a special logic power pin on the IC.

[flux3d]

You'd know better than i Dave. Not sure why it might be gaining time though. Any thoughts?

[Bitsyncmaster]

You'd know better than i Dave. Not sure why it might be gaining time though. Any thoughts?

Let me know the chip you used and I will look over the spec data.

[robvanderveer]

My guess is that the timer IC is not temperature-compensated. My clock has a DS3231sn chip inside that automatically adjusts for temperatures between -40 and 80°c. Popular RTC chips like the DS1307 and lower don't have that.

[flux3d]

I can confirm that Robs new clock is indeed well engineered. He's built his from the ground up. Mine relies on more pre-made components, which helps keep the cost down by comparison. When i get a moment I'll post up what chip is used. Maybe Dave can advise.

In saying that the my clock seems pretty good. Not perfect. Gains maybe a few minutes over the year. I just adjust each year when the car comes out of cold storage.

As for of I'm making more 12H clocks, I've taken time out from it for personal reasons, plus the laser cutter I've been using has had some issues (to say the least). But looks like I'll be up and running soon and I hope to have a new product ready soon.

12h clock
Voltage sensor
And temperature sensor
All for about the same price as before.

I'm also working on some more products for the community, such as a bespoke 3d scanning and printing service. If a plastic part on your car has broken i can help. Tough ABS and improved where needed. Customisable as well. So if you want that special decal on your window switch then I'll make it for you. What do people think. ..... Might start a new thread.

Mark

[Shep]

That's it, I'm tired of this BS Mark. I am officially redacting my support of this clock in favor of actual hard-earned offerings such as DeClock and my own personal upcoming GPS Clock (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10592-GPS-Clock-(interest)), not cheap rebranded Chinese shit. This was the last straw for me right here:
Mine relies on more pre-made componentsMore? More?! No dude, entirely. It's a shitty $12 chinese clock with a fancy plastic case around it. Always was, and still is. Want proof? HERE (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Mini-Clock-0-56-Digital-Electrionic-Clock-Green-LED-Panel-Display-Time-Watch-DC-12V-24V/603333_659384727.html) it is. Two wires (red/black), backside has that yellow-covered battery, circuitry looks remarkably similar doesn't it? Many thanks to one of the admins for sending it my way after I bought it. All you did was laser-cut and engrave a fancy blue case on mine and mark it up by $93 bucks.

Cut the crap Mark, you've been stalling since before I left and haven't explained why your product was limited in how it was. For starters, the clock I have installed in 559 clock currently is off by a factor of roughly 40 minutes and lord only knows how many hours (at least three), and I've only adjusted it once. "A few minutes per year" is pure bullshit. A minute per week may be more accurate, and even that is probably an understatement. Why are you limited to 24-hour clocks? Why haven't you moved past the "Prototype" stage? Why are there only two sizes and two colors? Easy: because that's all you can find on the internet.

It would be one thing if you actually spent your heard-earned time designing and building a circuit like DeClock (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10194-DeClock-dashboard-clock-replacement-offered), but your "get rich quick" scheme has no place in the DeLorean community. Consider me on your permanent blacklist.

[BABIS]

That's it, I'm tired of this BS Mark. I am officially redacting my support of this clock in favor of actual hard-earned offerings such as DeClock and my own personal upcoming GPS Clock (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10592-GPS-Clock-(interest)), not cheap rebranded Chinese shit. This was the last straw for me right here:More? More?! No dude, entirely. It's a shitty $12 chinese clock with a fancy plastic case around it. Always was, and still is. Want proof? HERE (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Mini-Clock-0-56-Digital-Electrionic-Clock-Green-LED-Panel-Display-Time-Watch-DC-12V-24V/603333_659384727.html) it is. Two wires (red/black), backside has that yellow-covered battery, circuitry looks remarkably similar doesn't it? Many thanks to one of the admins for sending it my way after I bought it. All you did was laser-cut and engrave a fancy blue case on mine and mark it up by $93 bucks.

Cut the crap Mark, you've been stalling since before I left and haven't explained why your product was limited in how it was. For starters, the clock I have installed in 559 clock currently is off by a factor of roughly 40 minutes and lord only knows how many hours (at least three), and I've only adjusted it once. "A few minutes per year" is pure bullshit. A minute per week may be more accurate, and even that is probably an understatement. Why are you limited to 24-hour clocks? Why haven't you moved past the "Prototype" stage? Why are there only two sizes and two colors? Easy: because that's all you can find on the internet.

It would be one thing if you actually spent your heard-earned time designing and building a circuit like DeClock (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10194-DeClock-dashboard-clock-replacement-offered), but your "get rich quick" scheme has no place in the DeLorean community. Consider me on your permanent blacklist.


I'm curious to hear Mark's response.. I'm also curious to hear the other clock owners about the minutes flaw..
my clock is still packed waiting to be installed, but if there is a known issue I would probably want to return it..

[Shep]

I'm curious to hear Mark's response.. I'm also curious to hear the other clock owners about the minutes flaw..
my clock is still packed waiting to be installed, but if there is a known issue I would probably want to return it..As far as I'm concerned, he owes me and everyone else he's sold a clock to $100 minimum. There's no way in hell that kind of markup is even remotely close to reasonable, particularly since he never disclosed he was using a pre-existing clock to begin with and instead kept calling it a "prototype". DeClock? Now THERE'S a quality product. This shit? definitely NOT.

(And for the record, I am fully willing to take my dash apart today to take detailed photo shots showing the two products are one in the same, so this is not just hearsay. The proof is in the pudding.)

[Bitsyncmaster]

That EBAY clock shows a 10 PPM (part per million) accuracy which would be very good if the specification were true.

Here is interesting info on clock accuracy.

http://www.best-microcontroller-projects.com/ppm.html

[jawn101]

That's it, I'm tired of this BS Mark. I am officially redacting my support of this clock in favor of actual hard-earned offerings such as DeClock and my own personal upcoming GPS Clock (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10592-GPS-Clock-(interest)), not cheap rebranded Chinese shit. This was the last straw for me right here:More? More?! No dude, entirely. It's a shitty $12 chinese clock with a fancy plastic case around it. Always was, and still is. Want proof? HERE (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Mini-Clock-0-56-Digital-Electrionic-Clock-Green-LED-Panel-Display-Time-Watch-DC-12V-24V/603333_659384727.html) it is. Two wires (red/black), backside has that yellow-covered battery, circuitry looks remarkably similar doesn't it? Many thanks to one of the admins for sending it my way after I bought it. All you did was laser-cut and engrave a fancy blue case on mine and mark it up by $93 bucks.

Cut the crap Mark, you've been stalling since before I left and haven't explained why your product was limited in how it was. For starters, the clock I have installed in 559 clock currently is off by a factor of roughly 40 minutes and lord only knows how many hours (at least three), and I've only adjusted it once. "A few minutes per year" is pure bullshit. A minute per week may be more accurate, and even that is probably an understatement. Why are you limited to 24-hour clocks? Why haven't you moved past the "Prototype" stage? Why are there only two sizes and two colors? Easy: because that's all you can find on the internet.

It would be one thing if you actually spent your heard-earned time designing and building a circuit like DeClock (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10194-DeClock-dashboard-clock-replacement-offered), but your "get rich quick" scheme has no place in the DeLorean community. Consider me on your permanent blacklist.

This seems unreasonably harsh. Do you realize that your whole car is made of re-purposed parts? Does it bother you that your seats are from a Lotus and your engine is from a Volvo? Why on earth would someone looking to manufacture a complex item do such a horrible thing? Oh, right - because there's no point in reinventing the wheel. Similarly, why would Mark *need* to reinvent the wheel to produce a simple clock? From his other posts, it's clear that his real skills lie in 3D printing and custom plastic fabrication. As such, he produced a nice housing for a clock replacement and fitted it around an off-the-shelf electronic clock module. A clock is nothing special. Why reinvent it if his only goal was to provide something that keeps time in a package that fits the OEM location?

DeClock is a very nice alternative. The GPS clock sounds like a huge amount of overkill but that's down to opinion, I'm sure it will be great. But if the goal was to provide basic functionality in an easy to install package, Mark did it. Did you ever consider that perhaps your clock is just defective? Or perhaps that the materials cost and the time required to tool up for the custom cases Mark produces might be significant? I doubt very much that he woke up one morning and said to himself "Today is the day I *GET RICH QUICK* selling 100 clocks at $100 each after spending $40 in materials and several hours of time on each one" - solid business case, he should go on Dragon's Den with that one.

Keep the ad hominem to yourself.

Edit: I also recognize that some of your heartache revolved around Mark calling the clock a "prototype" - while he may not have developed the electronics himself, he did create the casing and frankly, he was the one to have the wherewithal to see a need in the community, locate the necessary parts to fill it and produce the housing to combine the two. If he intended to refine the design as time went on, there is absolutely nothing wrong with referring to it as a prototype. Just as there's nothing wrong with someone who isn't an electrical engineer being limited by the supply, quality and type of prefab circuitry that's available.

[Shep]

Do you realize that your whole car is made of re-purposed parts? Does it bother you that your seats are from a Lotus and your engine is from a Volvo? Why on earth would someone looking to manufacture a complex item do such a horrible thing? Oh, right - because there's no point in reinventing the wheel. Similarly, why would Mark *need* to reinvent the wheel to produce a simple clock? From his other posts, it's clear that his real skills lie in 3D printing and custom plastic fabrication. As such, he produced a nice housing for a clock replacement and fitted it around an off-the-shelf electronic clock module. A clock is nothing special. Why reinvent it if his only goal was to provide something that keeps time in a package that fits the OEM location?Way to unintentionally back me up on this one. First off, not once did he ever, EVER state he was simply putting a case around a clock. I had to be told this by another owner who figured it out themselves. He advertised it as a prototype, and not once did he give a source for the electronics. Let me just quote a few snippets from the first post of this thread:


After quite a bit of research and development I've managed to manufacture a fully functioning replacement for the clock using modern components.
[...]
The one in the actual dash is the blue version I created
[...]
All parts are laser cut to sizeDoes any of that tell you that he repurposed an existing unit? No, and thanks to Ozzie, we all knew how to do that years ago. What this all says is that he solely created this, which is a flat-out lie.

If I wanted to repurpose parts like this, I would've bought the $12 clock (NOT $40 as you surmise) from China and fashioned a rig out of leftover aluminum. Total cost: $13, not the $120 he charged me for it.


But if the goal was to provide basic functionality in an easy to install package, Mark did it.So which is it? Did he repurpose parts, or did he manufacture the whole thing like you're saying here? You seem to be backtracking.


Did you ever consider that perhaps your clock is just defective?Irrelevant, but thank you for pointing out his hardware is inferior.


Or perhaps that the materials cost and the time required to tool up for the custom cases Mark produces might be significant?Was any of that disclosed? Nope.


I doubt very much that he woke up one morning and said to himself "Today is the day I *GET RICH QUICK* selling 100 clocks at $100 each after spending $40 in materials and several hours of time on each one" - solid business case, he should go on Dragon's Den with that one.I doubt it too. At no point did I say any of this. Just because you want to shove words in my mouth doesn't mean I actually said them, because I didn't.


Keep the ad hominem to yourself.You too, senior. :werd:

[jawn101]

Way to unintentionally back me up on this one. First off, not once did he ever, EVER state he was simply putting a case around a clock. I had to be told this by another owner who figured it out themselves. He advertised it as a prototype, and not once did he give a source for the electronics. Let me just quote a few snippets from the first post of this thread:

Does any of that tell you that he repurposed an existing unit? No, and thanks to Ozzie, we all knew how to do that years ago. What this all says is that he solely created this, which is a flat-out lie.

If I wanted to repurpose parts like this, I would've bought the $12 clock (NOT $40 as you surmise) from China and fashioned a rig out of leftover aluminum. Total cost: $13, not the $120 he charged me for it.

So which is it? Did he repurpose parts, or did he manufacture the whole thing like you're saying here? You seem to be backtracking.

Irrelevant, but thank you for pointing out his hardware is inferior.

Was any of that disclosed? Nope.

I doubt it too. At no point did I say any of this. Just because you want to shove words in my mouth doesn't mean I actually said them, because I didn't.

You too, senior. :werd:

I'm starting to remember the first rule of the internet, don't get involved in drama. There was a lot less of it until a day or so ago, I can't think of why that might be.

[alexwolf1216]

I try to stay out of this stuff, but frankly I dont see the big deal here. If he bought a clock, built a case, and made 100% good for him. My goal as an entrepreneur is to make money, not do things for free. I dont see anywhere that he stated he was doing this as a favor, nor was it stated that he didnt have an intent to make a profit. I also dont see where he held you up and forced you to buy his item.

Its $100 man. I caused more damage than that trying to get a part off my car. Why try and stir up a hornets nest? Obviously, you must have some "jangle in your pocket" based upon some of your other posts. Just let it go.

That being said.....nothing but love for everyone here:hititbanana:

[Shep]

All I'm saying is you can't put Lamborghini doors on a Civic, sell it on eBay as a Lamborghini, and expect someone to not be rubbed the wrong way.


Why try and stir up a hornets nest?I didn't. My original reply was addressed solely to Flux3D, not anyone else. If you want to talk about "stirring up a hornet's nest", I will refer you to this post:


This seems unreasonably harsh. Do you realize that[...]Hmm, wonder where it all started again??? Talk about mountains out of molehills. Again.

[jawn101]

All I'm saying is you can't put Lamborghini doors on a Civic, sell it on eBay as a Lamborghini, and expect someone to not be rubbed the wrong way.

I didn't. My original reply was addressed solely to Flux3D, not anyone else. If you want to talk about "stirring up a hornet's nest", I will refer you to this post:

Hmm, wonder where it all started again??? Talk about mountains out of molehills. Again.

The difference between your post and mine was that you called Mark out, called his product "shitty" and "cheap", on a public forum, where I came in with a little bit of sanity and rationality and tried to defend him (someone I've never met or even spoken to, I might add) against your onslaught. Saying "This seems unreasonably harsh" to you is stirring up a hornet's nest? That might indicate a bit of oversensitivity on your part.

Addressed solely to him? That's what PM is for.

[Shep]

The difference between your post and mine was that you called Mark out, called his product "shitty" and "cheap", on a public forum, where I came in with a little bit of sanity and rationality and tried to defend him (someone I've never met or even spoken to, I might add) against your onslaught. Saying "This seems unreasonably harsh" to you is stirring up a hornet's nest? That might indicate a bit of oversensitivity on your part.

Addressed solely to him? That's what PM is for.Uh no, the rant that followed was. And there you go again, stirring up another hornet's nest. I thought you said, and I quote here, "don't get involved in drama." What happened to that approach?

And no, that's NOT what PM is for. PM is for private conversations. At no point was this supposed to be private -- this information needs to be disclosed so potential buyers (like BABIS) know what they really paid for, and can decide for themselves if it's worth it or not. In case you missed it, BABIS himself said he was thinking of returning it after my post. You took it to the extreme by swinging the baseball bat at the beehive after my post, and are doing it again.

[Josh]

I'm starting to remember the first rule of the internet, don't get involved in drama. There was a lot less of it until a day or so ago, I can't think of why that might be.

hmmm cant figure out why. It seems like any thread you have commented on Shep is now infected with drama/bs. Can you please grow up.

[OverlandMan]

Coming back around to the clock not keeping accurate time issue... I can also attest I have noticed this behavior.

Honestly though, for the money and accepting this was done by a fellow user as a side-project, I have no real issue with it.

I'm just happy to have a non-scratched, functional clock in the OEM spot for it. To me it's more about presentation than actually using it for accurate time measure. Heck if I need that I'll look at my phone or watch.

So summing things up for me, it's virtually a non-issue and I'm still happy with the solution.

[DeLorean03]

I actually knew it was a pre-made clock circuit with a custom housing almost at the same time I put down the money for it. One of the solder joints had broken off, and I had to find a reference picture for it. Don't ask me how I found it; it was almost 2 years ago now. Needless to say, at first, I felt a bit deceived. But then I thought about the work it took to design the custom plastic housing, and I said "meh, it was worth it." and never looked back.

I feel Flux3D's solution was fair - you want a functional clock - pay up. Sure, his true donation to the project was the plastic housing, but bottom line: without his housing, you're hosed no matter what clock you use.


To clear things up, I was very sick the last 48 hours, and I think my fever just broke, so apologies for not being here to clean things up a bit earlier. Thank you, Tamir, for keeping things under control.

[DMC5180]

Fwiw, my working oem clock always runs fast. I Don't care about the accuracy. Only that it functions. Since the car is not a daily driver, I keep the battery disconnected, therefore I have to set it every time I re- connect the battery. Otherwise it just starts at 12:00. Same with the Craig radio. If I want the real time I look at this phone.

[flux3d]

May I start with saying thanks to all those that have defended me in this thread. Your contributions fill me with some hope. What follows is my first reaction to the posts by Shep.

I've just read the last few pages of posts by people, and I have to say my heart is in my mouth. It's the first time I've logged in fully for at least a couple of weeks. I can't believe the venom in the post from Shep with regards my clock. I'm genuinely surprised, shocked and saddened by the post and what he said. For the sake of the forum and everyone else I refuse to be pulled into a personal slanging match with Shep. Instead I will present the facts and let everyone else decide on what they think.

Back in December of 2012 I imported VIN 10719. I it had quite a few things that needed fixing, although was in pretty good nick thanks to much hard work by the previous owner. One problem was a complete lack of a clock. An aftermarket cruise control had been fixed into place where the clock should have gone.

One major problem which I couldn't tackle was a leaking final seal on the gear box, so off it went to Chris Nicholson of PJ Grady fame. While down there picking the car up from Chris I spoke to him about my idea to re-engineer a clock to fill the hole. I explained that I was looking for a replacement LED clock element which I could modify and build a new case around. He was very helpful, and even gave me a non-working clock PCB and case, asking me just to share with him what I produced.

A few months later I managed to make my first clock, using a LED clock sourced from ebay. I don't have the knowledge needed to completely re-engineer the electronics, and yes the clock that worked (I tried many, many different types, including buying existing clocks and pulling out the PCB's) was one sourced from China. The unit seemed well made, had battery back-up (something I knew would be useful) and a single button to adjust everything (two would have been ideal, but hay). Most importantly it had a small enough LE, something which had been very hard to find. At this point I just wanted a clock for my car and had no desire to make any more.

I built my first clock (blue, with the larger screen size) and fitted it to the car. I let Chris see the clock, and he was very impressed, and encouraged me to share my work with the wider community. So, I worked out a cost for the clock and posted details up on my bog (http://delorean-dream.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/a-new-led-clock-for-delorean.html), as well as on here and the UK forums.

The cost I posted (which has been reduced a couple of times may I add) was £64 or $105. This included packaging and secure postage to the US, which worked out at about £20/$33. The cost of materials, the clock and laser cutting came to a about the same. This basically left me with about £28, or $45 for my labour. Each clock takes about an hour to cut, glue and assemble, and then there is the cost of going to the post office to send them out. Even if I had only one to send I still went straight away to the post office to make sure it got to the person as soon as possible. I wanted people to have the best experience possible. If people emailed with a question I tried to get back to them right away and try to help. I'm sure I did just that with you Shep.

Yes, the LED clock internals are from China, but hay so many things are. That doesn't mean they are "shit" or anything else derogatory. They were what I could find which Best fitted my original needs for the clock.

I have always been as up front about the clock as I can. As as for calling it a prototype, well the word comes from the Greek for first (proto) and model (typus). As a trained Product and Industrial Designer many prototypes are made around pre-made electrical circuits. I used the word correctly, and more importantly without any intention to mislead or "con" anyone. I made very little "profit" on each one, just enough to make it worth my while to actually do in the first place. I was, and still am, proud of the product that I made. It was created in the spirit of the community I believed I was part of.

I have been working on a replacement, which again uses a China sourced LED clock PCB, but with a 12H clock, voltage and temp sensor. However, maybe it is my time to bow out of this market. I don't need the kind of hassle shown by you Shep, it's not worth the small amount of "profit" I made. Rob V in Holland has his clock which he has built from scratch which looks to be very well engineered, well presented and an excellent contribution to the community. Of course his clock might also suffer from problems in the future. After all, any product is a "prototype" until its thoroughly tested in the real world. Will you then call his work "shitty" and "cheap" Shep, and drive him away from making items for the DeLorean community, so making that same community weaker as a result.

In the end a simple message to me would have resulted in answers to all these questions and an offer to help as much as I can.

[flux3d]

...... re-reading the posts again is it any surprise that Shep mentions two "rival" delorean clocks, Rob's and his own "GPS clock" in his first post?

Rob I'm sure would never stoop to slander tactics to make his clock look good. But Shep........

If people still want me to continue developing my clock then show your support and I will. If there isn't the call for it then I will bow out and concentrate on other projects.

Thanks guys for your support in advance.

[DavidProehl]

Thanks guys for your support in advance.

I have a working OEM clock (which probably doesn't keep time nearly as well as your unit), so I'm not looking for a replacement, but just wanted to express that I think it is awesome that you took this project on. I see this more as a community service than anything else. The "profit" earned out of projects like this are seldom worth the hassle, which is typically why major vendors haven't taken them on themselves.

Whatever you decide to do with this project, please don't let the reason you abandon it be because of one bad customer experience. From what I read, everyone else seemed pleased with your clock.

[flux3d]

Thanks David, very kind of you to say.

You are of course right about not giving up. If we all did that hardly any DeLoreans would be left in the world.

On a plus note I now have a 3D printer and scanner, so the quality of the casing can only get better. Plus, it opens up a whole world of other possible developments and products.

[Jonathan]

I'm sorry too that you had to come back to the forum and read these comments, Mark.

My intention with mentioning my clock running a bit fast wasn't to spur on the comments from that guy. I hope you know that. I am happy with my clock and like others have said, it works better than the originals and much better than no clock. I never felt I got douped with the whole prototype mindset. I remember mine was fuzzy initially and you helped me work through why and correct it. If I was all hopping mad about it, you would have known. But like you've pointed out here, it would have come with a bit more tact. PM or otherwise. The comments that guy posted there came with a poor grasp of perspective unfortunately.

I think of it this way... do you care passionately about his work on his car or projects or whatever else? I am betting no. I don't care either. And with that in mind, I care very little if someone like that takes to having an opinion on what I'm doing. That sort of guy can have any opinion he wants, it doesn't concern me in the slightest.

....and yes, this could have been written in a PM, but I chose to put it here. How ya like them apples?

[acaciolo]

forum members coming up with creative solutions like this is what makes this such a great community. I am sure that if you calculated all the time you put into this project, you probably made about $1.00 per hour!

I don't need a clock for my car, but if I did, you'd get my business. I love it when someone sees a problem, comes up with a creative solution, and then offers it to the community. Just like Dave M. with his amazing rpm relay, fan modules, and led panel. Dave didn't make the LED's, nor should he. But he put a much of them together in a very slick package! If you can source premade components, why not?

Great work. don't let the drama get to you.

ps, if it makes you feel any better, I think shep might have realized he was a little harsh and he posted a public apology here. http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10601-Sorry-guys&highlight=shep


tony c

[flux3d]

Well, it's been nearly a year since the whole "clock gate" sarga and my I thought I'd put an idea out to everyone. I now have access to a 3D printer, and was thinking about creating a new clock based around similar electronics as before. Indeed, similar to this clock:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-in-1-Blue-Led-Car-Thermometer-Clock-Voltage-Temperature-Reflecting-film-/320959119529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4abaa780a9

Now, let me make it very clear, for fear of starting up another "flame him" thread, this would be me importing the clock electronics and putting them into a really nice, quality, perfect fitting, new clock module and selling it for about the same price as before. Yes, it would mean importing the PCB ect from China (which lets face it most companies do anyway), but after doing loads of research the electronics just can't be found anywhere in the UK or Europe for this, unless I order a bespoke PCB. If this is what you want then Rob has a clock which is made from the ground up and is also a great product. Looking at this module it would have:

12/24H functions.
Volt meter
temp sensor
original style "two" button function.

But, would not have display dimming...

What do people think?

[Elvis]

May I suggest another option without being negativ to the new LED clock ?

Especially for the European owners - very often the original clocks can be
repaired. So if you want to keep your original clock and it is still complete,
then I might be able to help.

PM me if interested.

Also if you have a broken clock and you are replacing it with this
interesting project here - I might beintersted in buying your old unit
as replacement. Please do not throw them away.

[flux3d]

Sounds interesting Elvis. One thing that certainly can't be replaced, and was the thing that set me on my own personal journey with this one, is the vacuum display. Once de-gassed there is no way of replacing it. However, I've read a few posts on the forums here in the UK were owners have replaced the other components, such as the crystal, and got the originals working. If you're one of the lucky ones with an intact display then yes, get it fixed! Original is always best.

[chris williams]

I would say go for it. Shame you had some bad press after having done something to replace a part that was no longer available.
Chris

[Elvis]

Sounds interesting Elvis. One thing that certainly can't be replaced, and was the thing that set me on my own personal journey with this one, is the vacuum display. Once de-gassed there is no way of replacing it. However, I've read a few posts on the forums here in the UK were owners have replaced the other components, such as the crystal, and got the originals working. If you're one of the lucky ones with an intact display then yes, get it fixed! Original is always best.


You're right, the vacuum display needs to be OK.
But from 10 clocks I have repaired, only one display was broken and one main chip was bad.
I never had a bad crystal.
2 had bad solder joints at the transistor,
Almost all of them had a bad plus wire on the PCB.

And all of them received the current saving mod from Dave :-)

[flux3d]

Thanks to all for their input on this. Rather than try to make a new clock myself, and to further counter the "bad press" propogated by certain members I've decided to offer up the clock project to the community. What I'm thinking is uploading the files used to create the lens and case to the forum, and for anyone wanting to make their own clock using the electronics i used they can pm me for the full contact details of the distributor.

What do people think? What format would be most useful?

Mark