Front end height not even

[Ryan S.]

Since my fuel system issues have been resolved (thanks to DMCtalk experts), I have been focusing my attention on front suspension.

Car was making some faint squeaking noises when I made sharp/fast turns. So I greased both LBJs (lower ball joints). No visible damages to LBJ boots but a some of greases are oozing out from top and bottom of boots. (see photos). No leaking from upper ball joints. Tie rod boots had some cracks so I greased them as well. It seems like noises have gone away after greasing. I am not sure if I should just replace LBJ boots or replace entire LBJs along with tie rod ends and sway bar bushings. I don't want to replace anything if I don't have to.

But I still hear spring noises when I go over bumps slowly or when I push down cars with my hands. It sounds like a low quality bed spring squeaking and sometime I hear "dong" sounds with squeaking when I go over bumps. Rubber bushings on top of shocks have some cracks. I am not sure if busing can be replaced.

This morning when I backed into garage, I noticed that my front end height is not even. Driver side bumper is about 1/2" lower than the passenger side. My gas tank is near full and both front tire pressures are same. When I push down the car, it doesn't bounce multiple times so I think shocks are ok. Any ideas? Is front height adjustable?
Thank you

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7351/8927921352_d6143c655e_z.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5450/8927281757_66ed260478_z.jpg



http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3829/8927348599_2459e277b5_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7336/8927334203_17f379a6fa_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7426/8927980114_ae10f01496_z.jpgJack stands as references

[Jonathan]

With the ball joint condition aside for a moment, I would have thought ride height was more a function of springs and shocks rather than the ball joints? I mean, when the car is moving or steering in a certain direction, if you are wondering where the noises are coming from, yes, I'd look at ball joints, but the uneven height, to me, has more to do with springs or shocks.

That being said, I would ensure the surface you are parked on is as flat as you believe it is. If the garage floor is sloped a bit, this could be impacting things. For example, I thought my garage floor was close to perfectly flat until I actually went and put a level to it and a few other measurements. Do you always back into your garage? Perhaps you never noticed before because this uneven surface was always under the rear of the car?

I don't know a lot about ball joints, but generally you shouldn't see the grease oozing out from them. If I have this straight, the OEM upper ones never seem to wear out and the lower ones are in the 80k miles territory. Not sure about longevity of the tie rod ends. If you're doing some significant work to your car, yea, maybe replacing all 6 isn't such a bad idea. Especially if you don't know much of their history or what was done in the past on your car.

Are your springs stock? Or have you done one of those lowering jobs? Some other owners have posted some pretty goofy pictures of springs that had been heated and seem all twisted in weird ways. That could be part of it if your garage floor is indeed nice and level.

[eagle-co94]

You can easily have grease oozing out if you over filled them. That's how you know when to stop greasing zerk fittings is when you see grease coming out.

My first guess is you have a spring or shock issue. I would check your springs first to see if they are indexed correctly.

I would measure the height from the floor to the fender arches as they'll likely tell you more than measure fascia (which could be slightly deformed over 30 years).

Have you noticed the unevenness while the car is parked in more than one place? I've been surprised to find surfaces not as level as I had thought by testing with marbles and water and see if they run in a particular direction.

[Rich]

....This morning when I backed into garage, I noticed that my front end height is not even. Driver side bumper is about 1/2" lower than the passenger side. My gas tank is near full and both front tire pressures are same. When I push down the car, it doesn't bounce multiple times so I think shocks are ok. Any ideas? Is front height adjustable?

Interesting problem description. While the photos with the stands do show a tilt how about going to the root of the potential problem?

Are you able to verify that the car body/frame, not just the bumper, isn't at the same height on both sides? Recommend checking at the two forward jacking points of the body tub, L/R, just behind front wheels OR better yet measure the front crossmember heights on left and right ends. Not fender heights. The car should be on a flat, even surface for the readings.

And, no, there are no adjustments for front ride height. Unless spring mods count as adjustments.

[Ryan S.]

My garage floor is leveled. I just checked. I almost never park my car in this direction. Always face in first. So I never noticed this before. My rear height is even since I have been adjusting rear heights. I believe this car has lowered springs with Eibach shocks (from DMCH) installed by PO. Car has 16K miles so too early for LBJ to go out (I hope). Unfortunately, I have little or no history on this car. So I don't know when the new springs and shocks were installed.

Height from floor to fender still gave me 1/4" differences. Floor to bumper was slightly less than 1/2" differences. So it is tilted and looks tilted.

Does your car (suspension) makes squeaky noises when you push it down? My others cars (newer cars) don't make that squeaky spring noises. I am wondering if this is common for all Ds??

[Bitsyncmaster]

Most of the cars I've owned will get "squeaky" around 10 years old. Takes some new bushing to fix it. Rubber bushings just do that.

[jawn101]

Hey Ryan, don't have much to suggest for the ride height question but I can verify that the lower ball joints are frequently 'oozy' like that. The spring ring that holds the boot in place around the lower edge is total crap, even brand new ones. When you grease the joints, it just pops off and grease spooges out. I always just wipe up the excess and try to press the ring back down, but after the first drive it pops back off anyway.

[Jonathan]

My garage floor is leveled. I just checked. I almost never park my car in this direction. Always face in first. So I never noticed this before. My rear height is even since I have been adjusting rear heights. I believe this car has lowered springs with Eibach shocks (from DMCH) installed by PO. Car has 16K miles so too early for LBJ to go out (I hope). Unfortunately, I have little or no history on this car. So I don't know when the new springs and shocks were installed.

Height from floor to fender still gave me 1/4" differences. Floor to bumper was slightly less than 1/2" differences. So it is tilted and looks tilted.

Does your car (suspension) makes squeaky noises when you push it down? My others cars (newer cars) don't make that squeaky spring noises. I am wondering if this is common for all Ds??

Interesting. Not the squeeking part, the level part.

Since this is not something likely to land your car in the ditch from looming catastrophic failure, I'd suggest you add it to the "watch list" of sorts. Drive your car here and there and park it as you would when you go about your business. Look at these discrepancies in ride height in various locations and on other surfaces than just your garage. Heck, move it around in your own driveway or pull it in forwards to your garage and compare. To me, 1/4" is fairly small, and while you can see it among the symmetry of your car, it could easily go unnoticed on the slope of the ground. Not saying there isn't something wrong or adjustable just yet, but keep monitoring it in different circumstances before you make any big decisions or changes.

[DMC5180]

My garage floor is leveled. I just checked. I almost never park my car in this direction. Always face in first. So I never noticed this before. My rear height is even since I have been adjusting rear heights. I believe this car has lowered springs with Eibach shocks (from DMCH) installed by PO. Car has 16K miles so too early for LBJ to go out (I hope). Unfortunately, I have little or no history on this car. So I don't know when the new springs and shocks were installed.

Height from floor to fender still gave me 1/4" differences. Floor to bumper was slightly less than 1/2" differences. So it is tilted and looks tilted.

Does your car (suspension) makes squeaky noises when you push it down? My others cars (newer cars) don't make that squeaky spring noises. I am wondering if this is common for all Ds??


My cars front used to squeak horribly. All squeaks went away when I replaced the SWAY BAR bushings. The donut bushings are the trouble makers. In my case I installed the DPNW Poly sway bar bushing kit and all squeaks are gone.

[Ryan S.]

Thanks for the feedbacks.
I measured frame clearances (right behind front wheels). Still shows 1/4 in differences. However, clearances by the crumble zone was identical for both sides. I guess, I just keep on eye on this. I should check pontoon and see if there are any 100 lb lead hidden in the car by PO . :tongue_stick:So THATS how you Lower a DeLorean... (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7222-So-THATS-how-you-Lower-a-DeLorean) Maybe some of them got shifted around.

Sway bar bushings will be on my todo list. I need 4 right? Is it hard to replace? Do I need to do alignment after replacing them out?

[DMCMW Dave]

Sway bar bushings will be on my todo list. I need 4 right? Is it hard to replace? Do I need to do alignment after replacing them out?

4 Donut bushings and 2 clamp bushings. Easy job, sometimes you have to cut/heat the old bushing sleeves off the ends of the bar.

[Jonathan]

Thanks for the feedbacks.
I measured frame clearances (right behind front wheels). Still shows 1/4 in differences. However, clearances by the crumble zone was identical for both sides. I guess, I just keep on eye on this. I should check pontoon and see if there are any 100 lb lead hidden in the car by PO . :tongue_stick:So THATS how you Lower a DeLorean... (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7222-So-THATS-how-you-Lower-a-DeLorean) Maybe some of them got shifted around.

Sway bar bushings will be on my todo list. I need 4 right? Is it hard to replace? Do I need to do alignment after replacing them out?

Yea, I saw that lead weights thread too. Strange. I am guessing 100 pounds would be enough to lower things 1/4" or 1/2" too.

But what would be the minimum to cause a noticeable height difference from side to side?

I think you said it was the driver's side that was lower, right?

I have seen data on owners weighing their cars front to back and at times data on each wheel. 38% front and 62% rear, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a side to side breakdown. It could be 50/50 as per the original design, but who knows?

Not that this is centred over the front wheel, but the number one chunk of weight on the driver's side is..... the DRIVER!! I don't know what the likelihood of a heavy dude driving the car for years would be on permanently smushing down the spring on that side, but I guess it's possible?

Fuel tank, as you mentioned, is pretty much right down the middle, so that's not likely a function of full tank or empty tank.

The windshield wiper fluid is on that side, and if you put in a full jug of fluid, which I would think is only about 1/2 gallon (?), this is only going to be 5 pounds. Not much on its own, but it may contribute.

The spare tire is also centred, so likely negligble. Steering column and the brake booster would be relatively heavy, not sure how much though.

Fans, horns, lights, fenders, suspension components, all is pretty much symmetrical. Angle drive of course is only on driver's side, but wouldn't add up to more than one pound I would think at most for it and the cables, bracket, lambda counter, etc.

Any chance something about your rims is different? Or are they factory original?

Any frame repair that might include some extra steel welded under there on that side?

None of this seems to be adding up to much as it's listed... who knows, maybe the heavy driver theory is possible?

My vote is still the uneven surface idea...

[Dangermouse]

Probably the heaviest non-centered individual load would be the battery -15 lbs?

[DL4567]

Racerx, my car is the same way with the uneven front height. Except mine is the other way around -- driver's front corner is about 3/8" higher than the passenger side. I first noticed it not long after getting my car, first time I backed into the garage and then stood back to look at it. You could clearly see the front end being a little angled.

When I'm not in analyzing mode though, the out-of-level front isn't really noticeable unless I'm looking for it, but what I always see to this day is that the gap above the tire and below the fender arch is bigger on the driver's side - bigger than the gap on the left and right sides of the tire, if you know what I mean. Whereas the tire outline matches the fender arch perfectly on the passenger side, the fender being just 3/8" lower relative to the tire. So it appears that the passenger side is lowered the perfect amount, and the driver's side needs to go down another 3/8" to look right, and have an even gap around the tire.

I have read up on it here and there over the years, and a few possible causes mentioned were....
a) if the springs are not oriented symmetrically (is this what indexing means?)
b) sometimes the SS panels are mounted unevenly to the underbody to make them align with the doors - in this case the frame and suspension is even, but the SS panels are not
c) improper tension on the anti-rollbar bushing area, which from what I understand is supposed to be tightened with the car sitting on its own weight

My car has the Eibach springs installed by DMCH (sounds like yours does too), and I've looked at the orientation of the springs and it appears they are very nearly symmetrical. I changed the shocks sometime later myself, and it had no effect on the uneven height. Also, when my car is on a lift and held up by the lift points of the underbody, the fender arches measure exactly the same to the floor, ruling out the uneven panel theory. My guess is it's either the springs or the anti-rollbar bushing. Unfortunately both those things aren't exactly easy to adjust at home.

Over the years this has bothered me less and less, but I had to chime in seeing as you're describing the exact same thing with possibly an identical suspension setup. At a tech session last year I measured the distance from front fender arches to the ground of several cars, and NONE of them were exactly the same side-to-side. I think the best car still had a 1/8" or 3/16" difference. It made me feel a little better, but like you I'm still wondering what's causing the uneveness on my own car every time I see that gap above the tire.

[Ryan S.]

Thanks for all very helpful advices. I wish mine was other way around like Derek. My body weight would even it out. I just need to find a heavier passenger or add some lead or gold bars under the passenger seat. :lol: Well... I am not going to worry about this. As long as my wheels don't fall off while driving.

By the way, is this something that I should or can replace? Or is this a don't fix it if it isn't broken item?




http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7351/8927921352_d6143c655e_z.jpg

[David T]

As long as you are lubricating the front end you may as well finish the job. Spray silicone onto the upper and lower spring perches (4), the upper and lower control arm bushings (8) the sway bar bushings (4), the steering column bushing, and grease the angle drive. Check that both front tires are the same and have the same air pressure. If the front won't even out you may have to replace the front springs. You could measure the frame, maybe it is twisted from an accident or rust.
David Teitelbaum

[eagle-co94]

I'll put this out there because the similarity has already been pointed out.

The 94-96 Chevy Impala SS community stopped using Eibach springs back in the early to mid 2000's because the springs would start to sag unevenly and cars would not sit level. It took a while to figure out, but every person that had this happen replaced their springs and nothing else and the car leveled out.

I know it's a pain, but probably the only way to test this theory is to take a used set of front springs and have them tested. I have heard that the problem was isolated to the 91-96 GM B-body spring line, but I have a feeling it may not be.

[dmc6960]

Other food for thought...

Every time I jack up the front OR rear via the center of the frame, the frame itself is always a little lower on one side. Its very apparent when sliding the jack stands under where one fits and the other doesn't until I jack the car up a little more. Then when letting the car down of course one side always gets the jack stand first. Happened with stock springs and I think it still happens when jacking the rear with the Martin springs up front.

[jawn101]

Other food for thought...

Every time I jack up the front OR rear via the center of the frame, the frame itself is always a little lower on one side. Its very apparent when sliding the jack stands under where one fits and the other doesn't until I jack the car up a little more. Then when letting the car down of course one side always gets the jack stand first. Happened with stock springs and I think it still happens when jacking the rear with the Martin springs up front.

+1, I see this as well when jacking from the center of the frame. I just always chalked it up to the floor being uneven.

[Jonathan]

+1, I see this as well when jacking from the center of the frame. I just always chalked it up to the floor being uneven.

Ditto on what both of you guys said. Notably the way one side would let me slide a ramp under the wheel while the other side needs to go up a bit higher.

Is there something someone has found about our cars that IS normal when compared to other vehicles!!?? lol

[Farrar]

The 94-96 Chevy Impala SS community stopped using Eibach springs back in the early to mid 2000's because the springs would start to sag...

DMCH had this problem with some of their early Eibach springs and recalled them. My car was affected; a previous owner had put Eibachs on as soon as they were available. When I bought the car, the front end was pretty low and it kept getting lower. It was almost five inches lower than stock in the front by the time I said "enough" to scraping my swaybar brackets and bought someone's old stock springs. Then I heard about the recall and contacted James at DMCH. Unfortunately, I had thrown away my old springs, so I had to buy new ones instead of exchanging ($$$). Anyway, after a couple of years they're at the same height they were when I installed them.

To make a long story short, if I were another owner considering buying the Eibachs, I wouldn't worry about the sag potential. That's just my experience.

[Ryan S.]

Mine could be one of those early Eibach spring. Does DMCH still honor recalls?

[Farrar]

Mine could be one of those early Eibach spring. Does DMCH still honor recalls?

First, do you have the receipt from when the springs were purchased/installed? I was lucky - the previous owner kept all of his receipts and included them with the car when I bought it.

As for the recall, I can't remember when this was exactly, but it was not a little while ago. When/if you find the receipt, it couldn't hurt to just give Houston a call and ask. :)

[Ryan S.]

Unfortunately no. PO wasn't exactly organized nor sharing type.

[Farrar]

Unfortunately no. PO wasn't exactly organized nor sharing type.

Still might be worth a call. They might have the VIN on file. Cross your fingers? :)