Best way to pump out the fuel tank for cleaning?

[jawn101]

Going to tackle my improved pump/sender over the next few days. I'm hoping to at least pump out the tank tonight and assess the situation. I know the "best" way is just to leave the pump in place and use it to fill gas cans, but there are a few missing details in my plan. The way I see it, as a general overview:

- Carefully slice the feed hose off the barb to the hard line. This needs to be done anyway for the new kit.
- Put that hose into the collection can
- Run the pump til the tank is empty

OK, great. Couple of issues I've got questions about though:
- The feed hose will be quite short and not able to reach to the ground where the can would need to be. Can I just temporarily shove a piece of nylon tubing or something on the end of the hose to extend it?
- Which pins in the RPM relay do you jump to run the pump? Is it the same ones I always jump to test the rest of the fuel system functionality? (as seen here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1155-How-To-Jump-the-RPM-Relay)
- How low will this method actually get the tank? I'd expect it would get it to almost completely empty. What do you do with the remaining dregs, just soak them up with some shop towels?

[Tillsy]

I used one of those jiggle siphon hoses, the ones with a ball at the end that you jiggle a few times rather than sucking the end to start the flow. I had about a quarter of a tank worth of who knows how old fuel and got most of it into my jerrycan, which made it plenty light enough to then remove the tank.

Unfortunately I didn't take a photograph of removing the fuel, but I used a similar process in reverse to put fresh fuel back in after so here's a shot of that:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=19596&d=1370531302

After removing the tank I simply stuffed a few rags in it to soak up the last bit of fuel before I commenced the scrubbing job...
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11427&d=1340714029

And yes, shorting pins 30 and 87 from the relay connector will enable you to bleed out the fuel system. My baby hadn't been started in who knows how long by the time I overhauled all my systems, so when I bled the fuel it took several minutes for the gurgling noises to stop.

[Tillsy]

By the way ignore the clamped hose in that first shot - it's not related.

(I was still in the middle of completely overhauling my brake hydraulics, clutch hydraulics, etc so to start the engine for the first time I needed to block off the vacuum line so the absence of the booster, master cylinders, etc didn't piss her off)

[jawn101]

Interesting. I'm not planning to remove the tank for cleaning, it can be done in-situ in my case since I know it won't be highly contaminated and the car is currently a fine runner.

[Mark D]

To empty my fuel tank I went out and bought one of these cheap siphon hand pumps. I think it was around 7 bucks.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=19597&d=1370532646

I routed the hose through the passenger side front wheel arch to a gas can sitting on the ground. I removed the fuel level sender from the tank and inserted the other end of the hose there.

To make sure the hose was sitting at the bottom of the fuel tank I zip tied the hose to a small length of aluminum rod. Any 2 foot long wooden stick or piece of metal would work. I positioned the end of the hose 1/8" from the bottom of the rod so it would be slightly off the bottom of the tank to ensure good flow.

Pump the siphon hand pump a few times to get the fuel flowing and then let gravity do the rest of the work. I got 99.9 % of the fuel out of the tank this way and the rest I soaked up with a rag through the fuel pump opening.

[jawn101]

I had thought about using one of those siphons, yeah - I had heard it was way easier to use the electric pump as is but maybe that's not true?

[DeLorean03]

Great suggestion by Mark D. Here's the pump I used to get the fuel out:

http://www.amazon.com/ER-Emergency-Ready-2EQK-Siphon/dp/B0007VYMUQ

That bad boy emptied the fuel tank darn quickly. Used a couple 5 gallon gas cans, and it worked out pretty well. The last bit I had to resort to shop towels. That pretty much pertains to your question #1.

Q2: Yes, that is how you jump the RPM relay to get the pump going.

Q3: Pertaining to how I described what I did, you prolly will get down to the last half gallon or so. Unfortunately, a full roll of paper towels had to be used to finish the job.

[jawn101]

Cool guys, thanks a lot. I already have one of these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/multi-use-transfer-pump-66418.html
19598

It's actually pretty good. Moves a lot of fluid quickly.

Guess I'll just use that :)

[dmc6960]

Cool guys, thanks a lot. I already have one of these:

It's actually pretty good. Moves a lot of fluid quickly.

Guess I'll just use that :)

The simplest solutions are always the best, aren't they?

[jawn101]

The simplest solutions are always the best, aren't they?

Yep, now I just have to go to the hardware store and get creative as to how I'm going to reach all the corners of the tank for cleaning. My arms are probably too big to get in past the elbow.

Looks like a problem that Chris "Mr. Universe" (Tillsy) probably ran in to, actually....

[DavidProehl]

Sounds like you have this figured out. The couple times I drained my tank I used a simple hose in the tank as a siphon. Took forever, but I wasn't concerned with speed. Next time I'll jumper the RPM to run the pump similar to what you described.

[DeLorean03]

Yep, now I just have to go to the hardware store and get creative as to how I'm going to reach all the corners of the tank for cleaning. My arms are probably too big to get in past the elbow.

Looks like a problem that Chris "Mr. Universe" (Tillsy) probably ran in to, actually....

Shopvac - use a shopvac with a long hose and all the appropriate fittings.

I used B12 Carb Cleaner to get the tank good and clean. I was able to get pretty far down in the tank, and I utilized a Shopvac to finish the cleaning of the tank. Here's a pic I took of the inside of my fuel tank right before I installed the combo unit:

19602

[jawn101]

Shopvac - use a shopvac with a long hose and all the appropriate fittings.

I used B12 Carb Cleaner to get the tank good and clean. I was able to get pretty far down in the tank, and I utilized a Shopvac to finish the cleaning of the tank. Here's a pic I took of the inside of my fuel tank right before I installed the combo unit:

19602

Very cool. I need to make sure my shop vac is wet/dry, I don't actually remember. I think it is. I'll wad up some rags and put them on a stick or something to scrub the corners. I've been planning to use straight acetone for cleaning, is there any real difference (other than price) for this job between that and the carb cleaner? I guess the high pressure spray might be desirable.

[Ron]

Shopvac - use a shopvac with a long hose and all the appropriate fittings.
I don't think that is a good idea for flamable fluids or vapors around the electric motor. Every one I paid attention to said not to...

[jawn101]

I don't think that is a good idea for flamable fluids or vapors around the electric motor. Every one I paid attention to said not to...

I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps it would be safe once the fluids have dried, that's why I was going to go with the rag on a stick scrub-down first to loosen any debris and get the acetone/carb cleaner scrubbed around, then let it sit for a while (maybe some good long blow-outs with compressed air first) followed by a vacuuming to remove the leftover solid debris.

[SS Spoiler]

Would it make sense to jack the front of the car up a bit to force the gas to the pointy end of the tank? Less to mess with.

[jawn101]

Would it make sense to jack the front of the car up a bit to force the gas to the pointy end of the tank? Less to mess with.

Yeah, definitely for the draining portion of the operation - that was the plan.

[DeLorean03]

I don't think that is a good idea for flamable fluids or vapors around the electric motor. Every one I paid attention to said not to...

I knew I should have clarified this a bit better.

So basically I had my tank COMPLETELY and totally dry of gasoline. There was no gasoline in my fuel tank at all. I cleaned the interior of the fuel tank with B12 Carb cleaner. I waited a good 15 mins or so and let the tank air dry.

Then, with the tank dry, I used a ShopVac.

[jawn101]

OK, thanks to everyone for the tips!! I pumped the tank dry with my hand pump. Took about 10 minutes to drain it completely. Turns out my old "improved" fuel sender was even more inaccurate than I thought. It was telling me there was about 1/4 tank left and when I removed the pump boot... COMPLETELY FULL. Sigh. Guess my mileage was pretty good this tank after all.

Once the fuel was as low as the pump could get it, I did like Chris suggested and just wadded up a whole roll of blue paper towels and shoved them in. After about 10 minutes I pulled them out into a bucket to dry, and like that the tank was empty. Blew it out with a tank or two of compressed air and vacuumed it clean. Looks like I got lucky only to have loose debris and no varnish or dissolved rubber in there. Factory fresh in about an hour.

Got the new pump/sender combo installed and running in about another 30 minutes. That kit is great. I hope it works (long term) as well as it installs, I don't think we could ask for much more as far as fit goes.

[Tillsy]

Yep, now I just have to go to the hardware store and get creative as to how I'm going to reach all the corners of the tank for cleaning. My arms are probably too big to get in past the elbow.

Looks like a problem that Chris "Mr. Universe" (Tillsy) probably ran in to, actually....

You're right, I couldn't get my arm fully in there to clean right at the back.

I had replaced my wipers only a few days prior so still had the old ones - tied a heap of rags to the end of one, soaked it in acetone, and used that to reach the back of the tank. Worked a treat :)

[jawn101]

You're right, I couldn't get my arm fully in there to clean right at the back.

I had replaced my wipers only a few days prior so still had the old ones - tied a heap of rags to the end of one, soaked it in acetone, and used that to reach the back of the tank. Worked a treat :)

You Australian guys all have huge arms though, right? I mean since you're upside down all the time and you have to hang on :lol:

Seriously Chris thanks for the tips. I used a combination of an old snow brush (see, I knew I kept it for a reason) and my extendo-magnet to shove the wads of towels around. It all went surprisingly easy.

[vwdmc16]

Now you might just have an accurate fuel gauge??? A brave new world eh Jon?

[Ron]

I knew I should have clarified this a bit better.

So basically I had my tank COMPLETELY and totally dry of gasoline. There was no gasoline in my fuel tank at all. I cleaned the interior of the fuel tank with B12 Carb cleaner. I waited a good 15 mins or so and let the tank air dry.

Then, with the tank dry, I used a ShopVac.FWIW- I wasn't sniping, but sharing, so don't take my response wrong...

Way back in Small Engine Repair, I watched the instructor take a motorcycle gas tanks (no reservoir), run water through it for 15 minutes, blow it out with an air hose, and it ignited when he stuck a torch to to it. One guy insisted it was gas from the torch, until we watched a similar vid using an arc welder...and it "pooted" with the striker at the fill hole! The older the tank, the more prone it is to go off. Later in the Fire Department vids, I learned that diesel tanks are "commonly" welded by washing them out and flooding them with a inert gas (some even use exhaust). A lot of people get hurt doing this, because of "Well, they didn't do it right" and "Yeah, but what are the odds?" It's just not worth the risk -- And fan motors can be worse, they are perfect sources for ignition (This and pilot lights are why you don't put gas cans in rooms with a water heater or furnace. We get at least two calls a year over over this.)

Liquid burns -- Vapors explode.
If you can smell it -- It can hurt you.
Play Safe!

[jawn101]

Great advice above. I feel like I took a lot of reasonable precautions but Ron is right that you can't underscore the importance of safety when working with gas.

[DeLorean03]

FWIW- I wasn't sniping, but sharing, so don't take my response wrong...

Way back in Small Engine Repair, I watched the instructor take a motorcycle gas tanks (no reservoir), run water through it for 15 minutes, blow it out with an air hose, and it ignited when he stuck a torch to to it. One guy insisted it was gas from the torch, until we watched a similar vid using an arc welder...and it "pooted" with the striker at the fill hole! The older the tank, the more prone it is to go off. Later in the Fire Department vids, I learned that diesel tanks are "commonly" welded by washing them out and flooding them with a inert gas (some even use exhaust). A lot of people get hurt doing this, because of "Well, they didn't do it right" and "Yeah, but what are the odds?" It's just not worth the risk -- And fan motors can be worse, they are perfect sources for ignition (This and pilot lights are why you don't put gas cans in rooms with a water heater or furnace. We get at least two calls a year over over this.)

Liquid burns -- Vapors explode.
If you can smell it -- It can hurt you.
Play Safe!

Wasn't offended at all. Maybe my response came off as a bit crass. Sorry about that, Ron :thumbup:!

Great advice, and I think I'll be retiring my days of using a ShopVac in fuel tanks. Coolant I am ok with - gas - yeah, I've played unintentional Russian Roulette enough :approve:.

[Ron]

LOL..Two cases of damned if ya do, damned if ya don't...love ya :cheers1: