CNG DeLorean

[Utah DeLorean]

So I have been working on my DeLorean and recently picked up a CNG truck. I love this thing because it only costs me $1.50 a gallon to fuel up and I can drive farther for my $$ then my little car.
What I am wondering if it would be hard to convert a DeLorean to a CNG/Gas... I realize that space is going to be and issue, so it might just be a CNG car. Which I am okay with since I have multiple CNG stations around my house and if I did run out I can always pick up my car and haul it with my truck.

I know that there is a Electric DeLorean in the works, but wouldn't it make more sense to go with CNG per that the stations are popping up everywhere around the country vs electricity stations.
Plus CNG is the fastest growing fuel right now.

[Dangermouse]

There was a car in the UK that did a CNG conversion but he had trouble getting it to run right. Iirc it was a parallel system with its own tank etc.

No idea if the specs for what is called CNG in the UK is the same as here and whether that would play a part.

[TTait]

Not sure about CNG, but you might want to question your assumptions on the Electric car thing... Depending on where you live.

In January I got a Volt, its essentially an electric car with an on board gas generator. At least in Southern California it is a perfect car. It is less efficient in colder climates.

Its rated for about 40 miles on a charge, before falling back to gas. It took about 3 weeks to get the hang of managing the car, as it were. Over those 3 weeks I only used about 15.5 gallons of gas - about half what I was used to - since early February however I have used less than a gallon total. I drive the car 75-120 miles on any given day. In general I can get 65 miles out of the battery, so I can drive it down to Disneyland for the day, plug it in there, and then drive home again that night, for about a dollars worth of electricity (really it takes two dollars - about one for each time you charge it - but I'm charging free at Disneyland - as I do many places). 120 miles means 3-4 gallons of gas in a new car - 5+ in either of my deloreans. That's 20 times the operating cost of the D... Less when you factor in maintenance per mile costs...

If the electric D does meet its claims of offering a 100 mile range to the average driver - that is a very practical range. You don't need to get a $75-100k car to get that though - the Spark just came out with a 100 mile range with a net price of $20k.

With an electric D you will not spend a dime on the engine, transmission, fuel system, or ignition - and you will get probably triple the life out of your brakes and whatever minimal cooling system may be installed. The AC will be more efficient and last a lot longer without the heat. The car will have no filters. I have over 10k on my Volt now, with more than 650mpg gas in that time, no maintenance, and it looks like my first oil change may be at 45k miles, and my next fill up at the gas tank may be in 2015 (I'm using about a pint a month on average now...).

The trick to making it work is math - how far you drive a day, and if there are electric chargers to recharge when you get there. Last Saturday was a 120 mile day on just battery, but I wan't driving like a mad man, and I ended up parking about 3 blocks from where I was going so I could use a free 240v charger. The math is already a little different for you, because you already have a much cheaper option than gas - but you are no where near the operating cost of electric yet...

Go to plugshare.com to see where free and paid chargers are in the areas you travel to. If you really look you will probably notice 120v outlets lots of places where you can recharge too - its not as impractical as it may seem at first.

Give it some thought, I hear the electric D is due to be available just a week or two after the new binnacles come out.

Tom

[Roman Legion]

Not sure about CNG, but you might want to question your assumptions on the Electric car thing... Depending on where you live.

In January I got a Volt, its essentially an electric car with an on board gas generator. At least in Southern California it is a perfect car. It is less efficient in colder climates.

Its rated for about 40 miles on a charge, before falling back to gas. It took about 3 weeks to get the hang of managing the car, as it were. Over those 3 weeks I only used about 15.5 gallons of gas - about half what I was used to - since early February however I have used less than a gallon total. I drive the car 75-120 miles on any given day. In general I can get 65 miles out of the battery, so I can drive it down to Disneyland for the day, plug it in there, and then drive home again that night, for about a dollars worth of electricity (really it takes two dollars - about one for each time you charge it - but I'm charging free at Disneyland - as I do many places). 120 miles means 3-4 gallons of gas in a new car - 5+ in either of my deloreans. That's 20 times the operating cost of the D... Less when you factor in maintenance per mile costs...

If the electric D does meet its claims of offering a 100 mile range to the average driver - that is a very practical range. You don't need to get a $75-100k car to get that though - the Spark just came out with a 100 mile range with a net price of $20k.

With an electric D you will not spend a dime on the engine, transmission, fuel system, or ignition - and you will get probably triple the life out of your brakes and whatever minimal cooling system may be installed. The AC will be more efficient and last a lot longer without the heat. The car will have no filters. I have over 10k on my Volt now, with more than 650mpg gas in that time, no maintenance, and it looks like my first oil change may be at 45k miles, and my next fill up at the gas tank may be in 2015 (I'm using about a pint a month on average now...).

The trick to making it work is math - how far you drive a day, and if there are electric chargers to recharge when you get there. Last Saturday was a 120 mile day on just battery, but I wan't driving like a mad man, and I ended up parking about 3 blocks from where I was going so I could use a free 240v charger. The math is already a little different for you, because you already have a much cheaper option than gas - but you are no where near the operating cost of electric yet...

Go to plugshare.com to see where free and paid chargers are in the areas you travel to. If you really look you will probably notice 120v outlets lots of places where you can recharge too - its not as impractical as it may seem at first.

Give it some thought, I hear the electric D is due to be available just a week or two after the new binnacles come out.

Tom


In my car, I can go about 2 weeks on a tank, if I'm using that vehicle instead of my primary vehicle (Motorcycle), which the best I got out of it was 63.2 MPG and costs $10 to fill. I would love to try out both CNG, Electic or hybrid, but I've never had the chance yet. I find riding a motorcycle more enjoyable than any car so far, until I can get a DeLorean, it will stay that way.

[Utah DeLorean]

There is only two stations with in about 20 blocks and none where I work (unless you considered the plug at my house cause I work at home lol) There is way more stations in CA then in Utah, but that being said there is also a lot more CNG stations in CA then Electric also.
I think that it would be very interesting to have a CNG option on a DeLorean.
To drive my 6 litter truck from Utah and back to Disney land would only cost me $200

[vwdmc16]

Check out deloman.de there is a nice cng coverted d on the projects page

[Utah DeLorean]

Check out deloman.de there is a nice cng coverted d on the projects page

Found it here
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddeloman.de%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DJST%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&u=http://www.deloman.de/projektemenu/1st-bi-fuel&usg=ALkJrhjy9FbiT1RL3w95UlH35LzTcFcszA
I really like the filler placement. and it is interesting how they put the tank right behind the seat... I was thinking of putting it up front, but I guess that there really wouldn't be that much room up there for a good size tank.

[Tomcio]

So I have been working on my DeLorean and recently picked up a CNG truck. I love this thing because it only costs me $1.50 a gallon to fuel up...

I have a question for you. How long does it take to fill up the tank with CNG?

Where I live people found a way to avoid paying an arm-and-a-leg for gasoline by converting their cars to gas. Not CNG though, they went with LPG. And there are a lot of cars driving on LPG with fueling stations at almost every corner. You can easily convert to LPG only but 99% of conversions are bi-fuel with LPG as an add-on to regular gas.

The difference between CNG and LPG is that LPG being liquefied remains at constant pressure regardless of the amount of fuel in the tank. CNG is always in gaseous state and the pressure changes wildly.
The pressure of LPG is dependent on temperature but at 20C (68F) it is said to be at about 2.4Bar (about 35 PSI) and because the pressure is constant during fueling you simply transfer fluid very quickly. Filling takes about the same as filling with gasoline.
The pressure of CNG goes from about 2 Bar (29 PSI) on empty tank to about 25 - 29 Bar (360 - 420 PSI) at full. This increase in pressure means that you can't fill the tank quickly as the gas would heat up and might explode.
Another plus for the LPG is the size and type of the tank used. Because of the relatively low pressure the tank can be lighter and larger. For CNG the tanks resemble scuba tanks - thick walls, heavy with small diameter.

For the DeLorean I would go with LPG but decided not to because of the negative effects on the engine performance and increased wear of piston rings and valves / valve seats. I decided to stick with gasoline.

[Utah DeLorean]

I have a question for you. How long does it take to fill up the tank with CNG?

Where I live people found a way to avoid paying an arm-and-a-leg for gasoline by converting their cars to gas. Not CNG though, they went with LPG. And there are a lot of cars driving on LPG with fueling stations at almost every corner. You can easily convert to LPG only but 99% of conversions are bi-fuel with LPG as an add-on to regular gas.

The difference between CNG and LPG is that LPG being liquefied remains at constant pressure regardless of the amount of fuel in the tank. CNG is always in gaseous state and the pressure changes wildly.
The pressure of LPG is dependent on temperature but at 20C (68F) it is said to be at about 2.4Bar (about 35 PSI) and because the pressure is constant during fueling you simply transfer fluid very quickly. Filling takes about the same as filling with gasoline.
The pressure of CNG goes from about 2 Bar (29 PSI) on empty tank to about 25 - 29 Bar (360 - 420 PSI) at full. This increase in pressure means that you can't fill the tank quickly as the gas would heat up and might explode.
Another plus for the LPG is the size and type of the tank used. Because of the relatively low pressure the tank can be lighter and larger. For CNG the tanks resemble scuba tanks - thick walls, heavy with small diameter.

For the DeLorean I would go with LPG but decided not to because of the negative effects on the engine performance and increased wear of piston rings and valves / valve seats. I decided to stick with gasoline.

Filling is the same as fueling with Gas/petrol. My truck has a 19 gallon tank in the bed... It takes up about 2 feet with the cover and everything. I usually get about 15 to 17 gallons in the tank filling up at 3600 PSI.
I also have like a 32 gallon Gas tank too, but I usually only have a few gallons in there though.
CNG makes a lot more sense since it is piped everywhere (at least in the US - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USgas.jpg) The Big rig trucks are using LNG, but that just really isn't feasible in a consumer setting.
Just this year a lone like 4 CNG stations have opened up around in Utah with more coming by next year and Wyoming is expanding their stations right now.
A lot of cities are moving their fleets to CNG because it is cheaper to run, it's a cleaner fuel meaning not as much maintenance.
The 1st time that I change my oil in my truck I was like at 4500 miles (I usually change my oil at 3000 miles or sooner on my other cars) and when the oil came out it looked like I just had put it in... My Buddy and his dad both have trucks like mine and my buddy told me that the computer will tell me when I need to change the oil.
So since the year that I have had my truck I have only needed to change the oil once.
The other nice thing is pulling a trailer from SLC to St George Ut it only runs me about $30 to $35.

[Starglider]

I have an LPG / Autogas converted Vehicross (small performance 4x4), I'm really happy with it. Running costs are approx 60% of petrol (in the UK).

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/stargliderx/4x4b_zpsbd78d3a1.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/stargliderx/vx-fog_zps314a8c6b.jpg

Would be tempted to LPG convert my DMC-12, if I wasn't going for a Legend-replica engine bay.

P.S. Getting a towbar fitted to this car next weekend, so that I can tow my DMC-12 over from the UK to DMC Europe (in the Netherlands).

[Utah DeLorean]

I have an LPG / Autogas converted Vehicross (small performance 4x4), I'm really happy with it. Running costs are approx 60% of petrol (in the UK).

Would be tempted to LPG convert my DMC-12, if I wasn't going for a Legend-replica engine bay.

P.S. Getting a towbar fitted to this car next weekend, so that I can tow my DMC-12 over from the UK to DMC Europe (in the Netherlands).

How much does it cost per gallon/litter for LPG vs Gas/petrol?

Right now Gas/Petrol is like $3.70 ish while I am paying only $1.56 for CNG

[Tomcio]

How much does it cost per gallon/litter for LPG vs Gas/petrol?

Here in Poland the prices are:

Regular unleaded 95 RON - about 91 R+M/2 costs $6.60 per gallon
LPG costs on average $2.94 per gallon

Since LPG has lower power density and you use more (about 10-15%) the cost of driving a mile is about half that of running on gasoline.

[Exolis]

Very interesting thread, and in short, it's all about personal preference and what you're willing to pay.

Doing an electric conversion will be a bit pricey, the one DMCH is doing looks to be it's own personal one where it uses an extension cord instead of the EVSE charger(SAE J1772) that vehicles like the Leaf, Volt, etc use. So usage of that may be limited to where it can be charged at. Cars like the Volt, where the concept is ideal but the result is not; with a combined 37 MPG with generator, you are better off getting a new Altima with 38 mpg HWY. Also doing electric, you will need to consider other things like Powered Heaters and A/C (some use Heat Pumps), Power Steering (granted the DeLorean doesnt have Power Steering, but with batteries, there's a good chance you might need it).

You're best bet is to get the engine and trans off a new Volkswagen TDI and put one in a DeLorean if you want best Energy Content per gallon.

[TTait]

My Volt is over 650 mpg lifetime, 65 mile range on electric, 44+ mpg in gas mode. I have 11 thousand miles on it and have not added gas since feb. (Over 10k miles on about a quarter of a tank). Total energy cost is about $.02 per mile, but my cost is about half that as I charge free at work and at many public stations. Hardly a disappointment, owners love them. The bad press is purely politically motivated.

Next time your in LA I'll take you for a ride.

[dmc6960]

Thats some good economy. A DeLorean owner here in MN recently bought a Fisker Karma from Arizona. Drove it back to MN and got 21mpg on all gas.

I'd suggest driving through at least a full tank of gas every year or twice a year. Dont want to start developing bad fuel issues because you never ran the engine enough to keep the gas fresh.

[TTait]

The car does that automatically, occasionally a prompt comes up on screen asking permission to run the gas engine for a while, bring it up to temp, do diagnostics etc. The only trick is to say yes when your battery isn't full and you are rolling, so your not just burning gas for the sake of it, your actually using the engine to some benefit. Its also slowly clicking through the oil life gauge so that eventually I'll have to change the oil some time next year regardless of the number of miles on the engine.

The cool thing is the brakes. I got to about 6k miles with the original pattern on the rotors showing as new - the pads very rarely touch the rotor because of the regenerative braking.

[dustybarn]

The Volt is a tremendous technical achievement, no doubt about that. For me, unfortunately, the $40K price tag is unjustifiable. The lease terms they have are awesome, but I put on far too many miles a year to lease cars.

A CNG DeLorean would not be too difficult to implement from an engine-management perspective, but finding a place to put the fuel tanks is an issue. There just isn't a lot of space in the D, and the cavities that are available are awkwardly shaped. Where did Wolfgang Hank put his tanks?

[Utah DeLorean]

The Volt is a tremendous technical achievement, no doubt about that. For me, unfortunately, the $40K price tag is unjustifiable. The lease terms they have are awesome, but I put on far too many miles a year to lease cars.

A CNG DeLorean would not be too difficult to implement from an engine-management perspective, but finding a place to put the fuel tanks is an issue. There just isn't a lot of space in the D, and the cavities that are available are awkwardly shaped. Where did Wolfgang Hank put his tanks?

Did you not see where the guy put his tank... I know that it is right behind your head, but I am not scared of it being there... CNG is a much safer fuel then Gas. And it could still be Bifuel. My truck will start on Gas if it is too cold or not enough pressure in the tank.
Cool thing is that 3M has got a new CNG tank that is lighter and can hold more pressure while still being cheaper to produce! That is what is going to keep CNG ahead of electric and still be better then Gas