Hard Line Going Into Bottom Of Fuel Filter Won't Come Out

[kings1527]

Does anyone have any tricks for this? I'm installing the fuel pump/sender combo and doing the filter at the same time but my bottom hard line is really stuck in there. I've tried Blaster, finagling the filter up and down, tapping the filter with a hammer and I get nothing. Not even any fuel smell.

Getting the nut loose off the bottom of the filter actually turned out to be no problem.

If anything, I'll disconnect the main line from the distributor and then try to gently rotate the filter on the hard line and see if it'll unstick itself that way. It looks like I'll have to do that anyways since that top banjo is really on there and it'd be much easier to install the banjo again with the filter out of the car rather than back in it.

[Bitsyncmaster]

It's been many years since I did mine but an impact wrench with a crows foot has always worked for any stuck lines I've had to remove. It can be tricky to get room to use it.

[kings1527]

It's been many years since I did mine but an impact wrench with a crows foot has always worked for any stuck lines I've had to remove. It can be tricky to get room to use it.

Actually, it's only the hard line going into the bottom of the filter. It's like a compression fitting and the hard line itself is frosted in there. As I have it now, it should pull straight out.

I think this is another tale of 'a well maintained car is much easier to work on'. It's been at least 6 years since it was replaced and it looks like some things set up shop.

[DMCMW Dave]

It may take some repeated twisting but it will let go. Rock it back and forth too. Go easy and don't twist the line.

[DMC5180]

I had the same issue when I did mine several years back.

I Opted to remove the filter from the elbow fitting rather than risk twisting up the hard line.

Remove Upper banjo bolt first.

Loosen filter clamp pinch bolt.

Hold elbow fitting with a wrench and use a second wrench on the filter and unscrew the filter from the elbow fitting.

[kings1527]

It may take some repeated twisting but it will let go. Rock it back and forth too. Go easy and don't twist the line.


I had the same issue when I did mine several years back.

I Opted to remove the filter from the elbow fitting rather than risk twisting up the hard line.

Remove Upper banjo bolt first.

Loosen filter clamp pinch bolt.

Hold elbow fitting with a wrench and use a second wrench on the filter and unscrew the filter from the elbow fitting.

Well, that job definitely sucked. I've done more frustrating and the quarters weren't that tight, but still. I actually didn't even have that much black fluid drip out. The gas was pretty clean. The biggest hitch was that bottom hard line. It's a great fit when it has to be connected; it definitely doesn't leak at all but simply getting it undone was a job in itself for me.

Thanks for the advice, Dave and Dennis. That's exactly what it took, Dave. Just going back and forth but messing around with that hard line made me nervous. I looked at where it runs to and replacing it, from what I could tell, would probably take raising the body off the frame. Luckily, it didn't come down to that.

Dennis: that's exactly what I ended up doing. I removed the filter from the elbow first but I ended up torquing the feed line on top pretty well, to the point where I was nervous I jacked that one up. But that one ended up fine. And once I got the filter unscrewed from the elbow, what happened next? The elbow came right off the hard line. Of course it did.

My new filter came with two steel crush washers instead of the usual copper ones, which I get from Hervey and they're great. But the steel ones are harder and I didn't torque the top banjo tight enough and had a major leak at the top when I jumped the RPM relay at first. That top banjo has to be TIGHT! (if using steel crush washers)

On a side note, has anyone gone and replaced the hard line on the bottom with the stainless flex line from Hervey? It looks like a good deal and eliminates the elbow but I'm not sure what installation is like.

http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/fuel-filter-in-out-stainles.jpg

[Conundrum]

I'd only do that if the hard line broke.

I was working in my fuel filter a couple days ago and the exact same connector was stuck on mine. Funny thing was, I had a buddy there helping me and I was telling him about DMCTalk and how posting a problem will get help because somewhere along the line, another DeLorean owner has encountered the exact same issue.

I ended up just screwing the filter off and leaving the elbow connected to the hard line.

[Bill6298]

I had the same issue when I did mine several years back.

I Opted to remove the filter from the elbow fitting rather than risk twisting up the hard line.

Remove Upper banjo bolt first.

Loosen filter clamp pinch bolt.

Hold elbow fitting with a wrench and use a second wrench on the filter and unscrew the filter from the elbow fitting.

I'm having the same problem with the elbow fitting. With this revised procedure, are you disconnecting the other end of the top hose at the fuel distributor? I'd really like to avoid disconnecting the fitting from the hard line and move on to my fuel accumulator replacement.

Any downsides with this? Given the possibility of that elbow leaking, it seems like you would never want to disconnect it from the hard line. Of course I could be missing something.

[Tillsy]

On a side note, has anyone gone and replaced the hard line on the bottom with the stainless flex line from Hervey? It looks like a good deal and eliminates the elbow but I'm not sure what installation is like.

I've bought it but haven't got around to installing yet...

[David T]

It gets stuck because you really have to crank on those fittings to keep it from leaking. It takes patience and persistence but you CANNOT twist that hard line! That is one reason we don't seem to change that filter often! It is also rare that they plug up. They seem to be oversized so in normal service they last a LONG time.

[Bill6298]

It gets stuck because you really have to crank on those fittings to keep it from leaking. It takes patience and persistence but you CANNOT twist that hard line! That is one reason we don't seem to change that filter often! It is also rare that they plug up. They seem to be oversized so in normal service they last a LONG time.

Is one method safer or preferred? Removing the elbow fitting from the filter or removing the fitting from the hard line?

[NightFlyer]

Is one method safer or preferred? Removing the elbow fitting from the filter or removing the fitting from the hard line?

I've always removed the elbow fitting from the filter, as the steel hardline is 'welded' to the brass fitting on my car as well.

[Bill6298]

I've always removed the elbow fitting from the filter, as the steel hardline is 'welded' to the brass fitting on my car as well.

Thanks. I will try that first thing tomorrow.

[DMC5180]

Bill,

You must disconnect the upper banjo fitting first before trying to unscrew the filter from the lower elbow.

[Bill6298]

Bill,

You must disconnect the upper banjo fitting first before trying to unscrew the filter from the lower elbow.

After several hours with no luck getting the filter off, I had to stop to find a store that sells a 19mm flare nut wrench. I'm out of ideas short of taking more risks with the hard line.

There's a thick non-fuel hose above my filter. Even with my stubby wrench, I can't gain access to the banjo bolt. I did manage to cut away the zip ties holding other non-fuel hoses that were in the way. Funny thing, I had this very narrow unknown hose with lots of slack bundled up and attached to my hard line with the wire from a coat hanger. It's coated in oil so I just removed the coat hanger wire and moved it aside for now.

I ultimately disconnected the fuel hose from the fuel distributor and fed it under the car so I could rotate the filter completely. After 1-2 full turns of the filter, it stopped moving. I was holding the square elbow piece with an adjustable wrench but the pressure on the hard line was just too much to continue. I'm afraid the hard line already has more play than it did when I started. FWIW, when the filter-to-distributor hose is hanging down, it's annoying but does not prevent rotation. I'll replace the hose if it ends up getting cracked. AFAIK, it's 30 years old anyway.

Back to plan A. I put more PB Blaster on the lower nut on the elbow. This time I'll try a 19mm flare nut wrench, once I can find one. I did not know the sizes prior to starting this job and my set tops out at 18mm. Napa, Auto Zone, Sears, and Advanced Auto are all sold out of this size. I might have to wait for Amazon to deliver tomorrow afternoon.

Otherwise, I guess plan B is to keep rotating the filter and find a better tool/method to support that hard line.

[NightFlyer]

After several hours with no luck getting the filter off, I had to stop to find a store that sells a 19mm flare nut wrench. I'm out of ideas short of taking more risks with the hard line.

There's a thick non-fuel hose above my filter. Even with my stubby wrench, I can't gain access to the banjo bolt. I did manage to cut away the zip ties holding other non-fuel hoses that were in the way. Funny thing, I had this very narrow unknown hose with lots of slack bundled up and attached to my hard line with the wire from a coat hanger. It's coated in oil so I just removed the coat hanger wire and moved it aside for now.

I ultimately disconnected the fuel hose from the fuel distributor and fed it under the car so I could rotate the filter completely. After 1-2 full turns of the filter, it stopped moving. I was holding the square elbow piece with an adjustable wrench but the pressure on the hard line was just too much to continue. I'm afraid the hard line already has more play than it did when I started. FWIW, when the filter-to-distributor hose is hanging down, it's annoying but does not prevent rotation. I'll replace the hose if it ends up getting cracked. AFAIK, it's 30 years old anyway.

Back to plan A. I put more PB Blaster on the lower nut on the elbow. This time I'll try a 19mm flare nut wrench, once I can find one. I did not know the sizes prior to starting this job and my set tops out at 18mm. Napa, Auto Zone, Sears, and Advanced Auto are all sold out of this size. I might have to wait for Amazon to deliver tomorrow afternoon.

Otherwise, I guess plan B is to keep rotating the filter and find a better tool/method to support that hard line.

It shouldn't be that hard to get the hollow bolt holding the banjo fitting to the filter off the top of the filter. Not sure what it is that's preventing you access, but there's nothing in the way that isn't easily temporarily moved on my car. The filter itself has 'nuts' that are secured to the housing of the filter. Best method is to use two wrenches - one on the filter nut and one on the bolt - and then use a closing scissor action to break the bolt free. Once free, it should unscrew the rest way fairly easily unless it was improperly installed during a previous change.

Once you have the soft-line disconnected from the top of the filter, you should be able to turn the body of the filter around elbow/hardline to remove/unscrew the elbow from the filter. You can even drive a screwdriver through the body of the filter to assist in doing this if necessary, as you're changing it anyway, so who cares if it gets damaged during the removal. You can even try rotating the filter around the axis of the elbow so that the filter will lay horizontal as opposed to vertical when you are attempting to remove/unscrew it from the elbow - I'm able to do this on my car without unduly twisting/stressing the hardline.

When installing the new filter, you can use some anti-seize and teflon tape on the threads on the elbow, as I always do. Just be sure to only apply to the bottom of the threads on the elbow (to prevent any from getting into the filter).

Best of luck!

BTW - Same goes for the accumulator if you're also changing that out - two wrenches and a closing scissor motion to break the nuts free.

[Bill6298]

Thanks so much for the advice.


Not sure what it is that's preventing you access, but there's nothing in the way that isn't easily temporarily moved on my car.

2-3 hoses are (or were) routed directly over the fuel filter. The one with zero give and causing the problem has a large diameter. Maybe it is for the heating/air. I need to trace it, figure it out, and make it right if it's improperly routed.



Best method is to use two wrenches - one on the filter nut and one on the bolt - and then use a closing scissor action to break the bolt free. Once free, it should unscrew the rest way fairly easily unless it was improperly installed during a previous change.


So, I broke the filter free and rotated the filter at least once or maybe twice. But, it finally seized up, the best I can tell.



You can even drive a screwdriver through the body of the filter to assist in doing this if necessary, as you're changing it anyway, so who cares if it gets damaged during the removal.


Ah, I didn't even think of this. I can handle this like a stuck oil filter. Great idea.



BTW - Same goes for the accumulator if you're also changing that out - two wrenches and a closing scissor motion to break the nuts free.


I wasn't doing this motion. I was always holding one wrench steady and trying to turn the other. Thanks!

[NightFlyer]

So, I broke the filter free and rotated the filter at least once or maybe twice. But, it finally seized up, the best I can tell.

What broke free - the hollow bolt from the top or the filter from the elbow fitting on the bottom?

[Bill6298]

What broke free - the hollow bolt from the top or the filter from the elbow fitting on the bottom?

The filter from the elbow fitting. After 1 or 2 full rotations, it wouldn't move anymore.

[Jimmyvonviggle]

I found this to be very tricky task as well. But what helped me is making sure that I jacked the car up high enough by putting it on car ramps. Also making sure you have enough light and a mirror to see hidden spots. Most importantly you have to be in the mood, with no one bugging you.

As a note the accumulator is worse.

[NightFlyer]

The filter from the elbow fitting. After 1 or 2 full rotations, it wouldn't move anymore.

Sounds like it might be cross-threaded, or that the threads are damaged in some other way. At this point, I'd personally try some heat from a propane torch - just be very careful if you decide to try this.

Best of luck.

[DMC5180]

Sounds like it might be cross-threaded, or that the threads are damaged in some other way. At this point, I'd personally try some heat from a propane torch - just be very careful if you decide to try this.

Best of luck.


Really? You know there is still fuel in the filter right.

[DMC5180]

The filter from the elbow fitting. After 1 or 2 full rotations, it wouldn't move anymore.


Bill,

Is your filter bottom Yellow zinc plated steel or Aluminum? If it's aluminum, just keep turning until it comes off. The aluminum filter threads may tear out at some point, but they can be removed from the Steel fitting threads afterwards.

[NightFlyer]

Really? You know there is still fuel in the filter right.

Yeah, that's why I said to be careful. I've done this on other cars and several tractors (both gas and diesel) in the past without incident. In my experience, usually the small amount of fuel still in the filter will reach flash point and combust into exhaust without much commotion, if it even reaches a point of combustion from the heat of the torch.

If that doesn't work, I'd next try a grinding disk to cut the fuel filter's nut that's holding the elbow fitting on. Last resort would be replacing the entire hardline and elbow assembly with either the same or an alternative solution.

[NightFlyer]

Bill,

Is your filter bottom Yellow zinc plated steel or Aluminum? If it's aluminum, just keep turning until it comes off. The aluminum filter threads may tear out at some point, but they can be removed from the Steel fitting threads afterwards.

Is the elbow fitting steel or is it brass?

[DMC5180]

Is the elbow fitting steel or is it brass?

Steel

[DMCMW Dave]

You want to avoid damaging that hard line at all costs. It's a bear to replace with a new one as it goes around the outside of the frame in an enclosed area.

I've seen some alternative repairs done (flexible high pressure lines, or a simple hose with clamps) but remember this is a very high pressure part of the system in operation.

[DMC5180]

The filter from the elbow fitting. After 1 or 2 full rotations, it wouldn't move anymore.


Just another thought here. You are turning the filter the correct direction aren't you. If you are looking UP from under the car the filter rotates CW to remove. Sometimes visual perspective plays tricks on you. The fitting threads going into the filter are NPT (tapered). After 1 or 2 full revolutions it should be pretty loose. The fitting itself only has maybe 5-6 threads to begin with. So unless someone really over torqued it during installation I would expect no more than 4-5 threads of normal engagement. If you moved in the wrong direction you may have just used up the available thread tightening the filter to the fitting.

[NightFlyer]

You want to avoid damaging that hard line at all costs. It's a bear to replace with a new one as it goes around the outside of the frame in an enclosed area.

I've seen some alternative repairs done (flexible high pressure lines, or a simple hose with clamps) but remember this is a very high pressure part of the system in operation.

+1

Definitely preferable to keep that hard line and not have to replace/substitute. That's why I'd try anything I could muster to get the filter off the elbow. I tried everything that I could to separate the elbow fitting from the line without damaging the line to no avail, so as far as I'm concerned, it's permanently welded (doesn't leak at all even though it will rotate), thus requiring me to remove the filter from the elbow fitting. I never had much of a problem removing the elbow from the filter, especially after I started using a little teflon tape and anti-seize on the bottom of the fitting's threads. I can usually change out my fuel filter in less than 20 minutes, as I like to change it out annually (I know that's overkill, but the filter is cheap).

Could have sworn my elbow fitting was brass, but I'm probably wrong on that, as I never really paid all that much attention. Dis-similar metals would make more sense as to why they seem to frequently 'weld' together over time, but it could also be that tightening the retaining nut compresses the line's flare (which I believe is a bubble flare at this joint) into the body of the fitting, creating an extremely tight fit. Most of us are so leery about potentially damaging the hard line that we don't want to use the force that's actually required to separate the two. Again, I'd personally use heat here if it wasn't possible to just remove the elbow from the filter, but seeing as how it is (and actually my preferred method), I don't even bother messing with the retaining/compression nut when changing out the filter on my car.

Persistence and patience are key here - eventually, you'll get it :smile:

I agree that the accumulator is a far worse job, but there are many on the forum who feel that the filter is a far more difficult job. I wonder what the dealership shop book standard time is for each job? There was a dealership shop book recently offered on eBay, but I forgot about it and didn't follow the auction - oh well.

[DMC5180]

Could have sworn my elbow fitting was brass, but I'm probably wrong on that, as I never really paid all that much attention. Dis-similar metals would make more sense as to why they seem to frequently 'weld' together over time, but it could also be that tightening the retaining nut compresses the line's flare (which I believe is a bubble flare at this joint) into the body of the fitting, creating an extremely tight fit. Most of us are so leery about potentially damaging the hard line that we don't want to use the force that's actually required to separate the two. Again, I'd personally use heat here if it wasn't possible to just remove the elbow from the filter, but seeing as how it is (and actually my preferred method), I don't even bother messing with the retaining/compression nut when changing out the filter on my car.



Dis-similar metals are more likely NOT to weld (Gall) them selves together. This is NOT the same as Corroding together.

The worst offenders for(Gall) seizing NPT fittings are when used in MALE to FEMALE combinations.

Stainless to Stainless (bare condition)
Aluminum to Aluminum (especially if the female thread part is a welded bung fitting) .the weld process softens the aluminum making it very easy to seize. .
Brass to Brass
Steel to steel (bare)

Fortunately most steel fittings are Plated in Zinc, Cadmium, etc The plating helps to separate the base metals from fusing. But the plating can only do so much when interference threads rub against one another.

Some type of anti-seize/sealer must be used on NPT threads no matter the application.

Plated Steel to aluminum should be less likely to seize but not impossible. Corrosion does funny things.

[Bill6298]

Well, I finally rotated the filter off of the elbow. I bought a 19mm flare nut wrench to hold the hard line and used a greater amount of force on the filter's nut. Every turn until the very end was difficult. There was something black around the elbow connector's threads. I previously flushed the lines, filter, and accumulator with a temporary pump and lots of fresh fuel came out of the filter when it broke free.

Like NightFlyer, I could not separate the elbow connector from the hard line.

As info, my filter was the aluminum type.

Thanks to NightFlyer, DMC5180, Dave, and others for your advice and encouragement.

[NightFlyer]

Dis-similar metals are more likely NOT to weld (Gall) them selves together. This is NOT the same as Corroding together.

The worst offenders for(Gall) seizing NPT fittings are when used in MALE to FEMALE combinations.

Stainless to Stainless (bare condition)
Aluminum to Aluminum (especially if the female thread part is a welded bung fitting) .the weld process softens the aluminum making it very easy to seize. .
Brass to Brass
Steel to steel (bare)

Fortunately most steel fittings are Plated in Zinc, Cadmium, etc The plating helps to separate the base metals from fusing. But the plating can only do so much when interference threads rub against one another.

Some type of anti-seize/sealer must be used on NPT threads no matter the application.

Plated Steel to aluminum should be less likely to seize but not impossible. Corrosion does funny things.

That's what I meant to say - thanks Dennis :smile:

[NightFlyer]

Well, I finally rotated the filter off of the elbow. I bought a 19mm flare nut wrench to hold the hard line and used a greater amount of force on the filter's nut. Every turn until the very end was difficult. There was something black around the elbow connector's threads. I previously flushed the lines, filter, and accumulator with a temporary pump and lots of fresh fuel came out of the filter when it broke free.

Like NightFlyer, I could not separate the elbow connector from the hard line.

As info, my filter was the aluminum type.

Thanks to NightFlyer, DMC5180, Dave, and others for your advice and encouragement.

Good to hear! :nana1:

When re-assembling with a new filter, use a decent amount of anti-seize and even a little teflon tape and it should make the job much easier in the future!

[Bill6298]

Good to hear! :nana1:

When re-assembling with a new filter, use a decent amount of anti-seize and even a little teflon tape and it should make the job much easier in the future!

Will do. FWIW, my idea of disconnecting the top hose from the FD and feeding it under the car so the filter could spin freely was a terrible idea. I damaged that hose and it's $80 for NOS although I just found some braided SS options. Live and learn. I read that someone else was successful with this approach but I wasn't that lucky (or skilled). I never did get that banjo bolt disconnected on top. I'll deal with it outside of the car.

Thanks again and Happy New Year.

[NightFlyer]

Will do. FWIW, my idea of disconnecting the top hose from the FD and feeding it under the car so the filter could spin freely was a terrible idea. I damaged that hose and it's $80 for NOS although I just found some braided SS options. Live and learn. I read that someone else was successful with this approach but I wasn't that lucky (or skilled). I never did get that banjo bolt disconnected on top. I'll deal with it outside of the car.

Thanks again and Happy New Year.

Wow - from my experience, it's quite unusual for the hollow bolt to cause so much trouble. I'm wondering if everything wasn't severely over-torqued during the prior change.

If you damaged that fuel hose near a banjo fitting, you should be able to cut off the damaged portion and re-thermocouple the banjo fitting to the hose, thereby shortening the length of the hose slightly, but it should still work just fine, although it may require some re-routing. You can even add a hose clamp to secure the fitting to the hose if you're leery of the thermocoupling. I did this on my car after the banjo fitting had separated from the hose, and it worked just fine this entire last year.

Best of luck and Happy New Year to you as well :smile:

[Bill6298]

Well, I can rule out an off-brand filter as the culprit. Although mine does not say Bosch (it only says GERMANY) it has Bosch part number 0-450-905-401 on the side. I think this was a very common cross reference part. I suppose this could have been the original stock filter type as well. Mine has 144-10-14-1 stamped on the side but I don't think this is a date code.

241492415024151

[DMC5180]

If I had to guess I'd say it's an original. Did you get the banjo loose yet?

[Bill6298]

I would somehow feel better if it were original. I have not been able to get the banjo off yet. I think I'll need a vice to hold it down while I use a ratchet. Unfortunately I loaned out my vice and need to get it back.

[rdarlington]

Can't get a wrench on the filter where the bolt screws into? I just used two wrenches and squeezed em together with one hand to get this bolt out (I have freakishly strong hands).

[Jimmyvonviggle]

Well, I can rule out an off-brand filter as the culprit. Although mine does not say Bosch (it only says GERMANY) it has Bosch part number 0-450-905-401 on the side. I think this was a very common cross reference part. I suppose this could have been the original stock filter type as well. Mine has 144-10-14-1 stamped on the side but I don't think this is a date code.

241492415024151

It might not say Bosch but it has its logo.

[NightFlyer]

Well, I can rule out an off-brand filter as the culprit. Although mine does not say Bosch (it only says GERMANY) it has Bosch part number 0-450-905-401 on the side. I think this was a very common cross reference part. I suppose this could have been the original stock filter type as well. Mine has 144-10-14-1 stamped on the side but I don't think this is a date code.

Stock/OEM original - doesn't necessarily mean it's the one from the factory though, although it very well could be.