What incentive does DMC or its franchises have for making super-reliable parts?

[ccurzio]

I absolutely need to preface this post by stating that this is in no way a slight against DMCH, Stephen Wynne, or anyone at any of the DMC franchises. I've had nothing but the absolute best experiences dealing with the staff at ALL of these locations and they have been nothing short of absolutely professional, totally helpful, and unbelievably pleasant to deal with. I have, on repeated occasions, stated as such publicly as well as recommended their business to many people.

This is just a question regarding business viability in a market such as ours, relating to my own unfortunate (recent) personal experiences with DMC products.

As many of you know, I've had my car for some time now. It runs and runs well, and I've done a lot of work getting the broken stuff fixed and the existing stuff improved and much of that has been thanks to the folks at DMCH and its affiliates. As many of you also know, I was one of the early adopters of the new fuel pump/sender unit and after installing it I became a champion of what seemed to be a really nice unit. After installing it to replace the old and corroded and badly-failing oddball third-party fuel pump that came with my car, the new pump was a godsend. It worked beautifully and was pretty easy to install and I was very happy with it. Unfortunately, approaching the end of the unit's seemingly-unreasonably short warranty period (three CORRECTION: SIX months - my sole complaint with the device and something else I voiced publicly), I started to have rest-pressure problems with the pump causing hot-start issues. I was not the first to have this problem with the new unit, though James at DMCH was of course more than happy to swap out my pump for a new one with zero hassle. Once I got the new pump I installed it and sure enough the car stopped having any of the hot-start issues and started working perfectly once again.

Until recently. The exact same problems are cropping back up, right around the exact same amount of usage of the new fuel pump as the old one when it started showing these problems. Unfortunately since I've been in the process of moving, the usage of the car has been stretched out over a slightly longer period of time so my replacement pump is now outside of its warranty period. If I want to fix it, I will have to drop the $350 or so to get another pump, only to likely have the same issues once again four months from now.

This is a pretty big annoyance, which was exacerbated recently by the failure of my DMCH angle drive. The factory-original angle drive on my car finally failed last year, so I went ahead and purchased the replacement angle drive from DMCH and installed it. It worked great, up until about a month ago (almost a year after its purchase) when it started wandering around the speedo dial, exhibiting the same symptoms as the last failure. Finally the other day while on the road it failed completely and the speedo dropped to 0 on the interstate.

This got me thinking... aside from static parts like shock tower bars and interior pieces and carpet and fuel distributors, what real incentive does DMC (or any company catering to "extinct" cars) have to create reliable "wear" parts with mechanical components? If you think about it, creating rock-solid parts for our cars is a tremendously bad business idea from a long-term perspective as once those parts are sold to all of the owners with cars on the road, the market for those parts dries up and that's that. Obviously it's bad business to make a product that sucks because then nobody will buy it, but it does seem feasible that making an exclusive product that's "good enough" to last for a little while (and applying an oddly-small warranty) and then being the only source for a replacement once it dies is a viable long-term business strategy.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS WHAT DMCH IS DOING. I AM STILL A FAN OF THEIR OPERATION AND A HAPPY CUSTOMER AND I AM NOT SPEAKING NEGATIVELY OF THEM. IT COULD JUST BE THAT I HAVE HAD SHIT LUCK WITH THE STUFF THAT I'VE BOUGHT. I AM MERELY ASKING A QUESTION BASED ON THIS EXPERIENCE.

That said, I'm really disappointed in what promised to be an amazing fuel pump upgrade and even doubly so that a new angle drive seems to have failed only a year after a 30 year-old version of the same part died. I'll likely spring for yet another fuel pump from DMCH at some point, but I am still left kind of wondering if I'm buying the DeLorean mechanical equivalent of razor blades.

[uhhair]

Don't get why you had to preface your post with "I love DMCH" blah blah blah stuff. People don't have the balls to call it like it is. You just said yourself that you bought two parts that failed in a premature amount of time. Don't back down, tell it like it is.

"Hey DMCH, I bough two parts that failed within a reasonably short period of time. Could you please explain why this happened, and offer me some sort of remedy to the situation?"

That's the first e-mail I'd send to them.

The second would be to other vendors who supply similar parts. They exist, if DMCH parts fail, go buy from DPI, Hervey, Grady, etc.

Just don't act like you love and defend DMCH but call out their products at the same time. Are you honestly asking what business incentive they have, or are you just upset over this, and trying to passive-aggressively make a point about it?

If it's option A, then the answer is the other vendors. If it's option B, don't be passive about it, speak up.

[ccurzio]

The preface is there because it's entirely possible I have bad luck. It's not like I've only bought these two things from them, I've bought a LOT of other stuff from them and haven't had any issues whatsoever.

If I were to have bought as much as I have from DMCH and not say anything positive, and then post this thread saying "These parts from DMCH failed, what the shit?", that's not fair to them OR the community. The fact is, I've had mostly positive experiences with them except for these instances. My post needs to reflect that.

Likewise, I've also bought things from DPI and Hervey. Josh at DPI deserves lots of praise as well because he's awesome. Hervey? That's a story for another thread, and a story I've already voiced. Lots of people know how I feel about his outfit. In his case, my experience has been the exact opposite. The parts are fine but the customer service is absolutely AWFUL.

[Mark D]

I'd say the incentive isn't much different than any other company's incentive to offer a quality product. People learn fairly quickly where to get something that will last vs something that is junk. There ARE alternatives to many of the DMCH 'improved parts' if you so choose. Once the market realizes something is of poor quality the better alternatives bubble to the top. Either DMCH recognizes their shortcomings and takes steps to resolve the issue, or they suffer a loss in sales due to bad reviews such as yours from people in the community.

Another recent example I can think of are the DMCH remanufactured LCA ball joints. They were complete crap (in my opinion) and the community in general took notice of the high failure rates and people started looking elsewhere. DMC Club UK was able to spec and source their own parts to the original design that were of much higher quality. The DMC Club UK ball joints are now being offered by most vendors including DMCH.

Any new product will have its issues and it's not like DMCH is intentionally releasing shoddy parts to boost sales. The pump/sender unit is outsourced to a company that specializes in manufacturing these units, so any failures would be on them. If DMCH is like other OEMs they probably have a warranty agreement and the supplier will be eating the cost of any failed units. Even if you are beyond the warranty period on your second sender unit I'd still send it back to DMCH so the supplier has a chance to look at it and determine the root cause of failure. Hopefully improvements can be made and the next batch of parts will have an improved check valve or something to maintain rest pressure.

[Delorean Industries]

The preface is there because it's entirely possible I have bad luck. It's not like I've only bought these two things from them, I've bought a LOT of other stuff from them and haven't had any issues whatsoever.

If I were to have bought as much as I have from DMCH and not say anything positive, and then post this thread saying "These parts from DMCH failed, what the shit?", that's not fair to them OR the community. The fact is, I've had mostly positive experiences with them except for these instances. My post needs to reflect that.

Likewise, I've also bought things from DPI and Hervey. Josh at DPI deserves lots of praise as well because he's awesome. Hervey? That's a story for another thread, and a story I've already voiced. Lots of people know how I feel about his outfit. In his case, my experience has been the exact opposite. The parts are fine but the customer service is absolutely AWFUL.



If I have learned anything in my years as a vendor in this community quality, accountability when something fails is everything. As the market shifts and more and more owners are DIY instead of headed to a Delorean specific repair facility quality is everything. This is why I have geared our company towards only offering the best available. If the best isn't available we then set out to produce or source.

The market HAS changed big time to say the least. For lack of better wording DAP has put itself out of business, DPI has increased it's product lines ten fold with virtually everything in stock including many previously unavailable components and DMC is making electric cars, luggage and fuel pumps.



Again it is all about how the situation is handled. But I can guarantee one thing: Within five years there will only be DMC and DPI. If another one man show bargain basement situation occurs I personally will be very surprised. I fought tooth and nail into this community and it cost a lot. I don't see others making that choice on a grand scale or small for that matter. If the quality of one surpasses the other and the price is the same or less when comparing NOS to NPC (new production components) what will the owners choose? The answer should be obvious.

[ccurzio]

If DMCH is like other OEMs they probably have a warranty agreement and the supplier will be eating the cost of any failed units. Even if you are beyond the warranty period on your second sender unit I'd still send it back to DMCH so the supplier has a chance to look at it and determine the root cause of failure. Hopefully improvements can be made and the next batch of parts will have an improved check valve or something to maintain rest pressure.

I actually like this idea, although I wish I had some insight into the manufacturer's process in this regard. As a developer, when I file a bug with Apple, I get responses from Engineering asking for details on how to reproduce the problem and notifications when things are fixed or if they've already seen the issue. In this case, the manufacturer could take the returned unit and inspect it and see what the issue is. Then again, they could also throw it in the "known issue" pile. (Also likely known as either the "spare parts" or "waiting for refurbishing" piles.) I doubt I'd hear back either way. :(


Again it is all about how the situation is handled. But I can guarantee one thing: Within five years there will only be DMC and DPI.

I can definitely see this. I'm still chomping at the bit to get your Spec I system installed on my car. Care to make a combo fuel pump/sender unit? :D

[Delorean Industries]

I'd say the incentive isn't much different than any other company's incentive to offer a quality product. People learn fairly quickly where to get something that will last vs something that is junk. There ARE alternatives to many of the DMCH 'improved parts' if you so choose. Once the market realizes something is of poor quality the better alternatives bubble to the top. Either DMCH recognizes their shortcomings and takes steps to resolve the issue, or they suffer a loss in sales due to bad reviews such as yours from people in the community.

Another recent example I can think of are the DMCH remanufactured LCA ball joints. They were complete crap (in my opinion) and the community in general took notice of the high failure rates and people started looking elsewhere. DMC Club UK was able to spec and source their own parts to the original design that were of much higher quality. The DMC Club UK ball joints are now being offered by most vendors including DMCH.

Any new product will have its issues and it's not like DMCH is intentionally releasing shoddy parts to boost sales. The pump/sender unit is outsourced to a company that specializes in manufacturing these units, so any failures would be on them. If DMCH is like other OEMs they probably have a warranty agreement and the supplier will be eating the cost of any failed units. Even if you are beyond the warranty period on your second sender unit I'd still send it back to DMCH so the supplier has a chance to look at it and determine the root cause of failure. Hopefully improvements can be made and the next batch of parts will have an improved check valve or something to maintain rest pressure.

While we all outsource to manufacture anything we need it is OUR responsibility to test any potential components in their intended application prior to release. Case in point with both mentioned above. So it is not like I am poking fun at DMC we had a bit of an issue with fan shrouds. Shipped out a few stainless units an inch to long about a year ago... OOPS!

[Delorean Industries]

I actually like this idea, although I wish I had some insight into the manufacturer's process in this regard. As a developer, when I file a bug with Apple, I get responses from Engineering asking for details on how to reproduce the problem and notifications when things are fixed or if they've already seen the issue. In this case, the manufacturer could take the returned unit and inspect it and see what the issue is. Then again, they could also throw it in the "known issue" pile. (Also likely known as either the "spare parts" or "waiting for refurbishing" piles.) I doubt I'd hear back either way. :(



I can definitely see this. I'm still chomping at the bit to get your Spec I system installed on my car. Care to make a combo fuel pump/sender unit? :D

We are testing a unit of course as sales of the OEM application dwindled with the combo release. I don't feel that our application is ready for market yet. I do not like the logic box zip tied to the filler hose among other things we have corrected in our design.

[ccurzio]

Also Josh, one thing I've noticed about your operation is the understanding and the need to expand. Lots of your parts (exhaust systems and the like) aren't mechanical and are ideally meant to be bolted to the car once and never looked at again. So you kind of fall into that scenario I mentioned above, where you have the possibility of having your market dry up once everyone has your parts. Though you've been able to adapt and change with additions of other products and of course all of the services you offer, and that's an impressive skill. If you were parts-based alone I would be concerned, but long-term viability doesn't seem to be an issue for you.

DMCH does this as well of course, but being a larger operation I don't think they've been as... "nimble" I guess would be the right word.


We are testing a unit

YES PLEASE.

[JohnZ]

Hey Chris did you get any official responses from DMCH about these oddities?

[Delorean Industries]

And another thing....

We (or I am) very public about our exclusive propriety manufactures. Because their brands speak for themselves. This also gives owners the piece of mind that heaven forbid DPI explodes and life time warranties can still be honored.

Example: If you purchase a SPEC I exhaust system or other Original stainless component from DPI that includes a life time warranty. The PO/invoice with your current contact information is put on file in our system and backed up weekly. In the event of DPI exploding (and me taking a dream job in F1 while no one is looking) this is given to SW and as stipulated in our manufacturing contract and extends the warranty directly with the manufacture.

As always I invite all other suppliers to step up and perform transactions as we do.

[ccurzio]

Hey Chris did you get any official responses from DMCH about these oddities?

In the sense of an "official response", no. But as previously mentioned, they were more than happy to swap out my first failed unit within the warranty period, no questions asked. And in fairness, I have not contacted them about the new failed unit as I am outside the warranty.

Angle drives I assume just universally suck, regardless of who makes them.

[Delorean Industries]

Also Josh, one thing I've noticed about your operation is the understanding and the need to expand. Lots of your parts (exhaust systems and the like) aren't mechanical and are ideally meant to be bolted to the car once and never looked at again. So you kind of fall into that scenario I mentioned above, where you have the possibility of having your market dry up once everyone has your parts. Though you've been able to adapt and change with additions of other products and of course all of the services you offer, and that's an impressive skill. If you were parts-based alone I would be concerned, but long-term viability doesn't seem to be an issue for you.

DMCH does this as well of course, but being a larger operation I don't think they've been as... "nimble" I guess would be the right word.



YES PLEASE.

As many know I have another business that is my bread and butter in life that I leave to much more suited individuals to look after. If this market becomes dry I would be surprised. I'm the only one doing what we are doing and I can't quite see us completely running out in the near future. Even if the day were to come where DPI was no longer viable I would continue to professionally build cars under the marque on a smaller scale.

[Tillsy]

That fuel pump saga really bothers me.

I installed mine over a year ago when I did my original work to bring my baby to life - thus I have only ever run her with that new pump and know no different.

I've always had a pressure loss issue - within an hour I can hear a popping noise from the accumulator as she slowly looses pressure. No worries I presumed the accumulator needs replacement and have one but still to this day haven't got to it.

But then I read a thread where someone is having all end of hell with rest pressure loss. It takes pages of diagnostic later before it is tracked down to the combo pump, and suddenly it is acknowledged this was a known issue with the new pump. Furthermore, it was akcnowledged the problem was specific to pumps sold in a known period of time.

To that end I asked what I felt was a pretty darned obvious question - if the vendors know the specific time those pumps were sold, did the vendors contact those customers regarding a "recall". Feel free to go browse that thread and see that the question was ignored.

I continue to feel very sick about that silence, it greatly disturbs me. I may potentially be one of those customers, I need to get around to installing my new accumulator and confirm whether the problem still remains, and if it does I've had the problem all along but obviously way out of warranty. If I am one of thosecustomers I will be absolutely furious, way more than furious, that I've had a faulty unit all this time that was known to be faulty and nobody gave a hoot about contacting me about. If I am not affected I still remain very sick knowing hat others do fall into that category but were never contacted. I had to let a local know here in Australia that the rest pressure saga he found and had to eventually solve himself with the new pump was actually a known issue because, you know, nobody thought to let the customers know they spent top dollar on a faulty batch.

Regarding whether the pump would be repaired or replaced for free even though it is out of "warranty" yet was specifically known to be faulty, must be a very different world in the US - here in Australia it would be illegal to deny that.

[DMCH James]

First, it's *six* month warranty - not three - it's printed on the line item for every invoice (along with the disclaimer about fuel tank contamination voiding the warranty). If someone told you three, they were mistaken.

Next, since you haven't contacted us about the second failure I encourage you to do so - with this product we have been very liberal with replacements for failed check valves, and here's why:

We tested three units on three different cars for nearly a year in three separate parts of the country. As you recall, we first showed this unit at our open house in the summer of 2011 - and production units didn't really start to ship until May/June of 2012. We had zero problems with any of the test units. We've had about an 8% failure rate on the first batch of about 250 or so units, and SOME of the those were swapped out with later units FROM THAT SAME BATCH which in a few more cases exhibited the same check valve failure.
Based on this, we went back to our supplier and as of February of this year they have been supplying units with a different pump. These pumps have performed well and the only failures (3 to date) on those were ALL due to fuel tank contamination upon inspection of the failed pumps/filters. Units with the later pumps can be identified by the letter "A" at the end of the serial number affixed to the controller box. As of June, we are also hot stamping the letter "T" on the fuel modules with the later pump or that have had the pumps replaced under warranty.

Now that we've been about six months on these new units, with the aforementioned good results, we've determined that we will extend the warranty on each unit that was originally sold prior to February 2013 by an additional 12 months. This is done on an exchange basis, simply contact your selling dealer to have this exchanged. As always, units that exhibit fuel tank contamination are not covered under warranty, but *may* be able to be repaired by the dealer for a nominal parts & labor charge. Letters to the this effect are going out early next week, once we are sure that we have identified all the purchasers of this part. The majority of them were sold by our dealers (not DMCH) so we're working with them to get this list as correct as possible.

We're also working with our supplier to develop a "user -installable" replacement pump, and have actually sent a couple of these out to a few users to test - this will mean that the user can replace the pump down (or on the side) of the road should they experience a failure in the future.

Chris, I sent you a PM - please call/reply when you can and we'll get you sorted out.

[ccurzio]

All of this really circles back to my original question:

How often does this happen with companies? Specifically those that deal in niche markets?

For the purposes of my concerns, replace "DeLorean" with any other car that has a small community and has parts that are difficult to obtain. What kind of incentive does a business have to offer excellent and highly-reliable parts for those cars?

The only thing I can think of is the kind of business that spins up short-term to make an immediate profit off of a need, and then wind down after they made their money and the customers are happy so the owner(s) can retire. That doesn't jibe at all with DMC's business plan, as they're quite obviously (as far as I can tell) in it for the long haul.

I really and truly don't believe that DMCH is shipping shoddy parts on purpose, but the question still remains.

[Tillsy]

If I am one of thosecustomers I will be absolutely furious, way more than furious, that I've had a faulty unit all this time that was known to be faulty and nobody gave a hoot about contacting me about. If I am not affected I still remain very sick knowing hat others do fall into that category but were never contacted. I had to let a local know here in Australia that the rest pressure saga he found and had to eventually solve himself with the new pump was actually a known issue because, you know, nobody thought to let the customers know they spent top dollar on a faulty batch.


we've determined that we will extend the warranty on each unit that was originally sold prior to February 2013 by an additional 12 months. This is done on an exchange basis, simply contact your selling dealer to have this exchanged. As always, units that exhibit fuel tank contamination are not covered under warranty, but *may* be able to be repaired by the dealer for a nominal parts & labor charge. Letters to the this effect are going out early next week, once we are sure that we have identified all the purchasers of this part. The majority of them were sold by our dealers (not DMCH) so we're working with them to get this list as correct as possible.

Awesome news :)

[ccurzio]

Hey James.


First, it's *six* month warranty - not three - it's printed on the line item for every invoice (along with the disclaimer about fuel tank contamination voiding the warranty). If someone told you three, they were mistaken.

My apologies. It's been so long since I've dealt with the issue that I didn't remember, but I do remember being surprised to see a < 1 year warranty in either case. Still, I've corrected my original post.


Next, since you haven't contacted us about the second failure I encourage you to do so

I appreciate the information you've posted. That's great news, and in all honesty that's why I mentioned that "in fairness" I hadn't contacted you guys about my second failed pump. I'd gotten out of the habit LONG ago of contacting businesses for concerns outside of warranty, as I've had too many hassles to count. Hell, in one case I had a manufacturer (Compaq) refuse to honor their warranty on a laptop while it was STILL UNDER warranty. Eckhard Pfeiffer can eat a dick to this day.

Still, while the pump thing was what started me thinking about this issue it's only really partially related to my thoughts here. Pump issues aside, what are your insights into trying to cater to our market in this regard? (If commenting won't cause any issues for you, that is.)

(As an aside, I just saw your message. I've been slammed with work the last two days so my phone-time is limited but I'll try and give you a call tomorrow.)

[ccurzio]

I also kind of wish I knew about the replacement availability earlier this month when I had the shock tower brace out of the car and fuel pump access panel open to clear my AC drain tube. :D

[DMCH James]

Still, while the pump thing was what started me thinking about this issue it's only really partially related to my thoughts here. Pump issues aside, what are your insights into trying to cater to our market in this regard? (If commenting won't cause any issues for you, that is.)


I *just* had this conversation with a client at the Dream Cruise in Detroit over the weekend, and it's also something I typically talk about when I visit local club events. I'll put it down in writing over the next couple days and reply. Thanks.

[Kenny_Z]

I can tell you one thing, we are extremely lucky to have these vendors. There are millions of classic Mustangs on the road so there a ton of vendors churning out stuff for them. You have to be very careful and pay extra for good parts. Even then there's no guarantee you're going to get decent parts. I struggled to stop the leaks in my windshield because NO ONE can reproduce a good seal. When I took the seal off my Nova I was less concerned about my already broken windshield than I was about getting my seal out intact because of the poorly done repops.

[djdogbone]

I'd second that...even the grumpy ones!

[David T]

I can tell you one thing, we are extremely lucky to have these vendors. There are millions of classic Mustangs on the road so there a ton of vendors churning out stuff for them. You have to be very careful and pay extra for good parts. Even then there's no guarantee you're going to get decent parts. I struggled to stop the leaks in my windshield because NO ONE can reproduce a good seal. When I took the seal off my Nova I was less concerned about my already broken windshield than I was about getting my seal out intact because of the poorly done repops.


It can be difficult to get parts made that will last. Even with testing you can't catch all of the problems you will see once you start selling to the whole market from hot Florida to cold Maine. Some States sell E-10 and some are even up to E-15. Some owners will install the parts themselves and others will have shops of varying competence do it. Some will take the effort to make sure the tank is clean and others will just "throw" the parts in. Some will put the parts in thinking it will solve ALL of their problems when maybe the accumulator is bad. I have a lot of empathy for the venders who have to put up with all kinds of customers, some of who are not as courteous and understanding as you seem to be. In general ALL of the venders want satisfied customers, especially in such a small niche market where reputation and repeat sales is very important. If you are cooperative with the venders they will try to "do right" by you and even bend their own rules if it is reasonable. We have seen this before with the headlight switch by DMCH. One more point to be said, just putting new parts on a car is not always going to fix it. Maybe what you are replacing is not bad, something else is making you think so or your car is modified and that is the problem. That happens a LOT with alternators! Also even if you buy from a company in the US they may be using parts from overseas manufacturers of dubious quality.
David Teitelbaum

[Tillsy]

And most importantly the support we get - never ceases to amaze me the detailed responses to forum posts and emails we get from all our vendors, even at insane hours of any/all timezones and throughout weekends.

It's not just a job to them - they personally and passionately care about us.

I sometimes order some odd parts for a project I may be working on and I'll get a query back asking what I'm doing with it because they want to be sure I realise it will only work in a particular circumstance or that I should be ordering it with something else to function correctly. In my case it's all good - I've ordered what I did for a specific reason, but each time it does make it clear to me that if it were a customer simply ordering part x without realising they also need part y or that you must have setup z that our vendors are going the extra mile and catching that out, they aren't simply taking our money and just sending out whatever it is we've ordered.

Even Hervey, who is a nightmare to deal with, means well.

Probably why the lack of communication about the pump flaw frustrated me so much (regardless if it impacts me personally or not, but I very strongly suspect it does) as it is incredibly out of character and felt like the problem was being buried. Thankfully James' post explains they've been doing the exact opposite which is fantastic, perhaps such a situation could be better communicated in future so customers are impressed instead of frustrated?

Guess I better put my other projects on hold and get that accumulator replacement done so I know once and for all.

[Ron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o

[Exolis]

So hopefully I can provide some type of useful feedback as Electronics Reliability Test Engineer... The quality of a part is all on the supplier, it is up to the OEM to insure that quality is up to par. At larger companies such as Nissan, we have standards for everything basically and once we test the part, if it doesn't meet requirements, we tell Supplier to fix it. However there will always be some rate of failure, this rate of failure is essentially decided between Supplier and OEM; it's usually very low and it's there because parts will break (especially moving parts).

So what would be the driving motivation to improve quality? Pretty much whatever can be done in a reasonable cost amount. If people don't like the product and has bad quality, customer goes to another place or someone else comes into the market to provide higher quality. Essentially all OEMs biggest factor for improvements (besides warranty reduction) is stuff like JD Powers and Consumers Report. Higher Ups freak out if rating is low on products. Granted smaller scale stuff isn't big enough to be on JD Powers and such, but essentially the sales will speak at that point.

Some big problems for something like the DeLorean is obviously the dating of things. In order for a higher reliability part, the part essentially needs to be designed specifically for that vehicle. A lot of these improvement parts are compatible parts that fit. This doesn't take other factors into account such as the Harness, EMC Regulations, load amounts, etc. So this all adds on to costs and with these companies being smaller, it's probably not cost efficient. This is a general model of making higher reliable parts, does not imply anyone is Cheap or doesn't care or anything. It's just really expensive and hard to get Super Reliable parts, even for a Large OEM.

Hope that help and makes sense!

[ccurzio]

The difference is that Nissan isn't a niche market with a limited customer base. Nissan parts go into millions upon millions of cars and there are hundreds of different vendors that sell quality parts to compete with one another. That's tremendously different than a car where only around 8000 were ever made to begin with and in many cases, specialty parts are only available from a single vendor out of only a handful of TOTAL vendors.

I understand how the business works on a scale such as the case with Nissan. I'm specifically asking about how to sustain being a parts vendor in a tiny market.

[Exolis]

It's basically no practical for a tiny market to insure high quality parts. For a small market, it's places like DMCH and what not that have to essentially pick and buy parts from supplier. Tiny market does not have the buying power to change product quality on a "generic" or "Universal" type part. Something like the Fuel Pump/Sender combo is probably not unique to just DeLorean.

I think the best thing that can really be done for tiny market type business is to address any problems and/or concerns to the vendor. The vendor then can report it back to the supplier then the supplier can fix it.

It's not to say all components from Tiny Markets are not reliable, its just the market is not big enough where it can guarantee a high reliability, especially if these components are used in different applications where the requirements vary quite a bit between different vehicles.

So say part X comes from a large supplier and several different companies buy Part X, each company has a different application(let's say 5 different vehicles). Since something like the harness and power supply is different, the supplier cannot guarantee Part X will work on all variations and things like EMC, Load amount, Harness sizes, connectors, etc can play different factors that could cause wear and other issues on the component.

[Delorean Industries]

The difference is that Nissan isn't a niche market with a limited customer base. Nissan parts go into millions upon millions of cars and there are hundreds of different vendors that sell quality parts to compete with one another. That's tremendously different than a car where only around 8000 were ever made to begin with and in many cases, specialty parts are only available from a single vendor out of only a handful of TOTAL vendors.

I understand how the business works on a scale such as the case with Nissan. I'm specifically asking about how to sustain being a parts vendor in a tiny market.


Simply put diversify. You can't have all of your eggs in one basket.

[David T]

Simply put diversify. You can't have all of your eggs in one basket.

What a small vender hopes for is that he can find a supplier who has parts he sells to a "big guy" which can be modified and made to work for the small quantity he needs. There is also price point. You do not want to get parts that are overengineered and too expensive. They may be better and last longer but they are too expensive to buy, inventory and then try to sell at a profit. The vendor has to buy a production run and put them on a shelf till he can sell them one by one. That ties up a LOT of capitol! All suppliers and venders have to accept a certain amount of failure and a certain lifetime for their parts. We could build a car that never breaks but only NASA would be able to afford it! As an example think about the rover they used on the Moon. No roadside assistance there! And the astronauts would not be able to walk back to the lander before their air ran out. "Failure is not an option". In such a case money is no object! Here on Earth money is always a consideration. And the fuel pump is not the only part the vender has to buy in quantity. Think about all of the other parts for the car they have to have designed, made, and inventoried. They can have millions invested in slow moving inventory. Selling parts and servicing Deloreans is not going to get anyone rich quick so they MUST be doing this for other reasons.
David Teitelbaum

[Jeff K]

Obviously a business needs to be profitable or it cannot survive.

Decisions must be made between quality and cost. Couple this with research and development/testing.

I'm obviously a big fan of the brand, but I hope it does something (I don't know what) to pump some new blood and excitement into the brand.

[andy blackmon]

I have read all the post on this subject, and everyone of you got it right. They make parts for 6,000 Delorean (+or -) and of course they may sell at the most 10% of these. I want to thank DMCH, Hervey and all the other vendors for making and stocking part for such a few amount of cars. Yes, I work in the power industry and even some of our parts that cost thousands of dollars sometime fail. I know that DHCH and all out other vendors will treat you right, they have me for over 31 years, I am glad they are there and if now and then a part is bad hey replace it.

[NightFlyer]

What other extremely low volume marque has the kind of vendor support that we do as DeLorean owners?

Personally, I can't think of any and am thankful for that support. Given the limited market that they're dealing with, an expectation of perfection from the vendors is a little unrealistic IMHO.

As long they always try to do the right thing, and the mistakes/flubs aren't intentional or known before marketing/sales commence, I for one will continue to stand by our vendors.

[Josh]

What other extremely low volume marque has the kind of vendor support that we do as DeLorean owners?

Personally, I can't think of any and am thankful for that support. Given the limited market that they're dealing with, an expectation of perfection from the vendors is a little unrealistic IMHO.

As long they always try to do the right thing, and the mistakes/flubs aren't intentional or known before marketing/sales commence, I for one will continue to stand by our vendors.

I agree with you 100% and then some more.

People always ask me, "Isn't it hard to get parts for these cars?"

It always surprises them that not only pretty much any part is readily available, but I can pick and choose which vendor or location I want to buy them from. This was a deciding factor in the purchase of my car.

[rothsean]

All of this really circles back to my original question:

How often does this happen with companies? Specifically those that deal in niche markets?

For the purposes of my concerns, replace "DeLorean" with any other car that has a small community and has parts that are difficult to obtain. What kind of incentive does a business have to offer excellent and highly-reliable parts for those cars?

The only thing I can think of is the kind of business that spins up short-term to make an immediate profit off of a need, and then wind down after they made their money and the customers are happy so the owner(s) can retire. That doesn't jibe at all with DMC's business plan, as they're quite obviously (as far as I can tell) in it for the long haul.

I really and truly don't believe that DMCH is shipping shoddy parts on purpose, but the question still remains.


The answer is the free marketplace. The incentive is to make quality parts and offer quality service so that the customers don't want to go anywhere else and develop some loyalty.

[ccurzio]

The answer is the free marketplace. The incentive is to make quality parts and offer quality service so that the customers don't want to go anywhere else and develop some loyalty.

That's not really an answer though, when it comes to exclusive parts.

For example, where else are you going to get a modern pump/sender combo unit for the DeLorean?

[rothsean]

That's not really an answer though, when it comes to exclusive parts.

For example, where else are you going to get a modern pump/sender combo unit for the DeLorean?

Nowhere, but other companies offer alternatives to that item. It is not the situation where it is DMC or bust.

[ssdelorean]

This is a pretty big annoyance, which was exacerbated recently by the failure of my DMCH angle drive. The factory-original angle drive on my car finally failed last year, so I went ahead and purchased the replacement angle drive from DMCH and installed it. It worked great, up until about a month ago (almost a year after its purchase) when it started wandering around the speedo dial, exhibiting the same symptoms as the last failure. Finally the other day while on the road it failed completely and the speedo dropped to 0 on the interstate.



(Note: Since type is bad expressing tone and I'm a known advocate for long lasting angle drives - I'd like to say that there is NO intention of sarcasm in this post.)

DMCH is still having issues with angle drive failures? I figure they would have them worked out by now.

James,
You guys should look into the supplier that Martin G. had over in the UK to supply your angle drives. I know they are not making them anymore (one reason due to low quantities) but at the quantities you would order they would probably start making again. They are very reliable (at least my unit is). I haven't broken one yet with all the miles I drive.

[DCUK Martin]

They will still make them to order, but I don't re-sell them due to their poor customer service. The DOC UK also re-sold them for a time but they too found Speedograph a pain to deal with.

I sold about 20-30 units and have sent out two replacement stub axle cables (of the original 5 I had!) since.

[Delorean Industries]

They will still make them to order, but I don't re-sell them due to their poor customer service. The DOC UK also re-sold them for a time but they too found Speedograph a pain to deal with.

I sold about 20-30 units and have sent out two replacement stub axle cables (of the original 5 I had!) since.

We waited and waited and waited on these people. What a nightmare.....

[chris williams]

The DOC UK also re-sold them for a time but they too found Speedograph a pain to deal with.

We are getting another batch done BUT it will take many months before they even start to make them. The guy who makes them at the company is sick. I'm keen as I need one for myself.
Chris

[ccurzio]

Has anyone purchased a new angle drive from DMCH recently?

Yesterday I installed the angle drive I just recently bought from DMCH and noticed that it looks different than the old one I bought from them. Most notably, the grease fitting is missing. (The instructions still indicate the grease fitting is there.) How do you go about lubricating these new ones?

I'm posting in here because I was hoping to come back and see the update they promised to write about the original subject, but didn't see anything.

[DMCflux]

Has anyone purchased a new angle drive from DMCH recently?

Yesterday I installed the angle drive I just recently bought from DMCH and noticed that it looks different than the old one I bought from them. Most notably, the grease fitting is missing. (The instructions still indicate the grease fitting is there.) How do you go about lubricating these new ones?

I'm posting in here because I was hoping to come back and see the update they promised to write about the original subject, but didn't see anything.

I believe the recent ones are lubed and sealed for the life of the part. I have the same one you are referencing. With over 5k miles on it, I have not had an issue.

[ccurzio]

Oh okay. I hope that's the case, and the new unit lasts me a good long time.

I also need to mention that DMCH has gladly provided me with a brand new check valve for my fuel pump issues. It was easy to install and all of my fuel problems seem to have vanished. I am happy.

[Nicholas R]

I believe the recent ones are lubed and sealed for the life of the part. I have the same one you are referencing. With over 5k miles on it, I have not had an issue.

I hate "sealed for life" parts. In the end it just means the life if the part is shorter. No matter what, eventually all greases, oils, and lubricants break down. It's one thing on a part with no access, but on a part like this, why not? I got a DMCH angle drive with grease fitting in 2007. I grease it about once a year and it's performed great so far!