Ok.. It's head gasket time!

[Jeff K]

Ok, I recently posted about a cooling issue. I bought a tester and there is exhaust gas in the coolant. Head gasket time! I'm taking it to an engine shop next week for a verification. My engine has 70K miles.

My restoration replaced/refurbished pretty much everything in the fuel and cooling system.
The car was running perfectly until this happened. Cold start, warm start, idle etc. I felt it was 100% reliable.

I found this quide about it
http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/cylinderhead/headremovereplace.html

Assuming this is correct.. some of my options are.

1) Replace it, call it a day.
2) Replace it, send the heads out to be reconditioned. (good shop near me other people on this board recommend) about 300 I think.
3) Replace it, get the hi-performance cams and get the heads reconditioned. (Which will also mean new exhaust... 2K :( )
4) Find a 3.0L 1990-1991 PRV and get EFI. (I've read a ton about this.. I know it's not a plug and play by any means.)

Then, it's the "while in there syndrome"

Do I do anything to the bottom end too?

I would like more HP of course, but it kills me to put so much money in my wheesy PRV.

Heck, a crate engine from summit racing is cheaper then tricking out my old tired PRV. Of course I do not have anywhere near the skill to fabricate like Nicholas did with his LS1 swap.

Suggestions from the Gurus?

Thanks
Jeff

[Josh]

Interested to see the responses. I would say a combination of #1 and #4. I was looking over the wiring last night and it isn't going to be too tricky, building a wiring diagram currently.

[Jeff K]

Interested to see the responses. I would say a combination of #1 and #4. I was looking over the wiring last night and it isn't going to be too tricky, building a wiring diagram currently.

Hey Josh. If this was year from now, I'd probably be following your guide (that is yet to be made). I'm leaning toward your idea myself. Fix it and swap it later. But.. I'm thinking if the swap might overwhelm me. I'm having a friend help.. he has many years experience. But then again, cams and the exhaust can probably be done in two weekends.. get 200hp and it back on the road soon.

Also, I guess you will need a better exhaust for the 3.0 swap too right? Would this be a DPI Spec 1 exhaust application? What do you plan on using?

[Josh]

Hey Josh. If this was year from now, I'd probably be following your guide (that is yet to be made). I'm leaning toward your idea myself. Fix it and swap it later. But.. I'm thinking if the swap might overwhelm me. I'm having a friend help.. he has many years experience. But then again, cams and the exhaust can probably be done in two weekends.. get 200hp and it back on the road soon.

Also, I guess you will need a better exhaust for the 3.0 swap too right? Would this be a DPI Spec 1 exhaust application? What do you plan on using?

There will be a guide. Just no word on when. My aim is to lay it all out (comprehensive), so it will be as underwhelming as possible.

You are exactly right, cams and exhaust (to compliment your new head gaskets) would all be installed by turning some wrenches. I noted you wanted to move away from K Jet so that is why you were thinking of going this route.

Any exhaust will bolt up that fits the original PRV in the Delorean. i plan to go F/I down the road so I am not going to be super picky with the exhaust, just something that is not stock or Special T. I have gotten most of my parts from DPI and would continue to buy from them for my exhaust. However my budget is not allowing for $2000 to be spent on exhaust at this time. Currently looking for a used setup. But that is off topic to this thread.

[David T]

It's all about the money. Your budget will determine your options. Doing the heads is the minimal option. From there it gets to better cams, better exhaust, Stage II engine, and on and on. My advice is to just get the heads cleaned up and replace the head gaskets. For the additional money you can spend you do not get all that much in improvement. That being said the Stage II is very nice! Doing the minimum you can spend under $1000 if it is all your labor, just gaskets, and grinding the heads flat with a clean-up valve job.
David Teitelbaum

[Ryan S.]

Jeff
mannnnnn... I am so sorry to hear that it's the head gasket. Makes me sick.

David,
What's a typical labor hours or cost for a basic head gasket work? PO replaced mine at 16k ml. What is a typical life expectancy of head gasket and what is primary reason or cause for such failure?

[Ozzie]

Not a guru, but I did this job by myself, in my garage - a lot of parts come out, but it wan't really too difficult of a job.
Doing it yourself, it wasn't really an expensive job at all, as all you really need are new gaskets (head, valve covers, exhaust, intake) - IF that's all you do (or discover that you need).

Depending on service history, this would be a good time to:
Change plugs
Change wires
Check fuel injectors
Replace water pump
Exhaust upgrade
VOD clean up/inspection
Cam upgrade (most tempting to do, if you can swing the cost)
Clean nearby grounds.
Valve Lash check/adjust.
..and see below

The things that were extra that I chose to do were:
1) I took my heads to get inspected, and they found them a little warped (not uncommon with aluminum heads - especially if motor ever overheated). If you've seen pics of my engine bay you'll understand that I didn't want to bolt back in dirty 30 year old heads, so for those two reason I had the shop flatten them out and they turned them back to me so clean, that my block blushed.
2) Removed timing cover and had it sandblasted and then I painted it. Naturally a new crankshaft bushing went with this job.
3) I cleaned the grime as much as possible off the engine block, and to frame areas previously not accessible with the exhaust on.
4) I replaced my original starter with a new Dodge Monaco starter.
5) Replaced my original engine mounts, with a fresh set.
6) Not an option but, also replaced coolant and pressure tested it.

If you're comfortable wrenching, have the tools, space, time, and are organized with parts removed, then go for it at a comfortable pace.
Otherwise take it in, but I imagine the labor hours will be high.

If you don't like standard PRV performance, well this is a good time to spend additional cash to correct that. Either with exhaust, or CAM, or even an engine swap, you can improve performance, the limitations typically aren't the options, so much as how much are you willing to spend to improve performance.

Good luck. Whatever you choose to do, if you do it yourself, it is very rewarding when the last of many parts go back on, and the car starts up on a few cranks shortly afterwards.

[bunni]

About two years ago, I started this project. I opted for #3, with a lot of additional "while I'm in there..." Its been a learning experience more than anything as I have never done anything like this before. But I ended up completely disassembling my engine, took it to a shop to get cleaned and fully checked. I would have been okay with just a cam swap, but my engine leaked like there was no tomorrow, like needed a quart every week/every other week. I am finishing up the rebuild of it now, slowly, but now I have a deadline so we will see how that goes. I also went with replacing all of the chains and guides, there was an interesting scraping noise from my engine near the pulley side of it. With 100k+ on it, I decided that if I am going to own this car for 30 years, I might as well go for broke and make sure I don't have to do this again any time soon.

I did it for the clean up and the learning basically. If the rest of your engine is in decent shape then there is no need to go beyond the heads. Ozzie made a nice list that I completely agree with, getting down to the heads gives you a good chance to check and replace a good amount of top end parts. I also completely tore down and cleaned the air intake assemblies.

[David T]

Jeff
mannnnnn... I am so sorry to hear that it's the head gasket. Makes me sick.

David,
What's a typical labor hours or cost for a basic head gasket work? PO replaced mine at 16k ml. What is a typical life expectancy of head gasket and what is primary reason or cause for such failure?

If you are just doing heads and have never done the job before and do not have all of the necessary tools it is difficult to estimate how long it will take you. It can be done in 8 hours but not 8 hours straight (approx 4 hours on and off per side). You must consider the time the machine shop will have the heads to grind them flat (and maybe clean up the valves). The big cost besides the labor is the machine work. The gaskets, although pricey, are not a big part of the cost. It is not a matter of the head gaskets wearing out. They will last until the motor gets overheated. I would consider replacing the water pump and all of the seals and gaskets and hoses under the intake manifold at least if they haven't been done in a long time.
David Teitelbaum

[coreydmc]

is it mandatory to grind the heads when replacing the head gaskets?

[Ozzie]

is it mandatory to grind the heads when replacing the head gaskets?

If you mean getting them flat: No. ..but while they are out, it's a good idea to have them checked...which may lead to flattening them.
If you mean preparing the surface: Yes. You don't want to a clean-ish surface on both the head and the block.

[David T]

If you mean getting them flat: No. ..but while they are out, it's a good idea to have them checked...which may lead to flattening them.
If you mean preparing the surface: Yes. You don't want to a clean-ish surface on both the head and the block.

I would check the flatness of the heads and if they are over .002 warped, I would consider it mandatory that they be ground. Requires a good straightedge and a feeler gauge. Typically if the heads got overheated enough to blow the gasket you can figure the heads are going to need grinding. As long as you are grinding them you may as well freshen up the valves and seats. Helps to restore full compression and will give you a better running, smoother motor and more power.
David Teitelbaum

[Delorean Industries]

I have yet to see a set of heads especially original that did not require milling.

[coreydmc]

Ok ill send them to a local shop to be milled, One I install the heads, change the valves and seats and the car is back together again does it require to be tuned to those specs with a dwell meter etc?

[DMC5180]

Ok ill send them to a local shop to be milled, One I install the heads, change the valves and seats and the car is back together again does it require to be tuned to those specs with a dwell meter etc?


That's an interesting question. One would think, if you don't mess with any of the fuel related stuff in the process, you should be fine assuming stock setup. If cams or high compression are involved perhaps not.

I'm interested in reading the answer from the pro's myself.

[coreydmc]

hahahaha. I am interested in the answer also! I have not started this project until I have all the facts down. Especially since I just installed a new cat.

[TTait]

Once you restart the engine, you are most likely to have timing, valve adjustment, and vacuum leak issues, not fuel system issues.

First, worry about oil pressure, and valve clearances - any mistake there will be costly. Next, worry about distributor timing - plug gaps, etc, as very poor combustion can damage your cat. Vacuum leaks next - you won't adjust anything in the fuel system without getting that right first. When those are good, its possible that you will want to do some fuel system adjustments, but in theory nothing significant there will have changed.

Tom

PS - I agree the most direct route for doing this is to just go back to stock, but if you do intend to go stage 2 you pretty much have to replace the head gaskets again - as I understand it they cannot be re-torqued - so if you want stage 2, you will repeat most or all of this job again to do so if you don't do it now.

[David T]

Whenever you do that much work you will want to check all of your adjustments. Especially since you may be fixing vacuum leaks, better adjustment of the valves, etc. All of this will have an effect on the Lambda system and necessitate an adjustment. No sense going half-way and not trying to get the motor to run as well as you can. it is also a check on how well you did all of your work. If you can't get the fuel mixture set right it means you did something wrong. You are also assuming it was set right BEFORE you did all of the work. Big assumption on most Deloreans! BTW, you do not "change" the valve seats and valves. They are ground and lapped. I would also check the timing and advance systems.
David Teitelbaum

[coreydmc]

David- are you saying not to change the valves and seats? I just want to make sure I read your post correctly.

[TTait]

Valves can be changed, but not the seats - the mating surface is milled directly into the head. Instead they get lapped, or resurfaced if you will. The machine shop can do it when they mill the heads, or you can try to do it by hand if you have the patience.

[DMCMW Dave]

Valves can be changed, but not the seats - the mating surface is milled directly into the head. Instead they get lapped, or resurfaced if you will. The machine shop can do it when they mill the heads, or you can try to do it by hand if you have the patience.

The seat are steel inserts.

[David T]

The seat are steel inserts.

Typically the guides are reworked (or replaced if necessary) and the valve seats reground with a "Three Angle" grind. The valves are then ground and then each valve gets lapped into it's seat. Rare that you would have to do any more than that but there are things you can do if the seats are too messed up to fix by grinding. If a valve is bent or burnt they are usually just replaced. That is also not common but does happen. Springs are checked for pressure and replaced if not within specified length and pressure. Again, not common but can happen. I like to lap in my own valves as a check on the machine shop. It is a time consuming task so it is expensive so some shops will skip it to save the customer some money. My time is cheap so I do it myself. All you need is a twiddle stick, some lapping compound a a lot of patience. And a spring compressor.
David Teitelbaum

[DMCMW Dave]

A severe overheat will cause the heads to expand and the exhaust valve seats will fall out, sticking the valves open. If you overheat an engine long enough this is what makes it finally stop running.

[DSNW Toby]

is it mandatory to grind the heads when replacing the head gaskets?

Depends on how many times you want to do this. If you prefer to replace the head gaskets once, and have them seal completely and correctly, then a light machine cut is highly recommended. If you want to simply take your chances, well ...

A light machine cut is only part of it. The machine shop should also do a pressure check to confirm that are are no cracks or leaky valves. If the heads have quite a few miles on them, the valve seals should also get replaced.

[SpudMurphy]

I've taken the head off of cylinders 1,2 & 3.
have taken it to a machine shop and a pressure check shows that the valves are seating 100%.

now i need to look at the mating service - if it is warped i can get it re decked . the question is "how much material can be removed" after all page 35 of the DeLorean Manual says ....
Max bow of gasket face = 0.002"
NO RESURFACING PERMITTED (Really??????)
Cylinder head height =4.373" = .006"
- that infers that no skimming - re decking of the head is permitted??

This info is out of date. a 2 thou cut will show how true the deck is ...
how much can be taken off?

[Delorean Industries]

I've taken the head off of cylinders 1,2 & 3.
have taken it to a machine shop and a pressure check shows that the valves are seating 100%.

now i need to look at the mating service - if it is warped i can get it re decked . the question is "how much material can be removed" after all page 35 of the DeLorean Manual says ....
Max bow of gasket face = 0.002"
NO RESURFACING PERMITTED (Really??????)
Cylinder head height =4.373" = .006"
- that infers that no skimming - re decking of the head is permitted??

This info is out of date. a 2 thou cut will show how true the deck is ...
how much can be taken off?

Any cut to the cylinder head deck surface requires a companion cut to the top of the timing cover. As you drop the head surface lower the timing cover will protrude above this. The gasket does not have enough deflection to accomodate this. The mating point between the cylinder head, timing cover and valve cover will leak. If a head does not clean up within .005 discard.
I'm sure there are people out there that have cheated this with sealants etc but the above is the correct way if you are going to surface a part designed not to be surfaced.

[David T]

Because this is an overhead valve engine and the chain turns the cams, any materiel you remove affects the timing and the tension of the chains. You can also affect the geometry of how the intake manifold connects to the heads. Cutting the heads also reduces the volume of the combustion chamber affecting the compression ratio. All that said you could get by taking .002 off. To be safe whatever you do you should balance and do the other head too. As for checking, you use a straightedge and a feeler gauge. The inference is if you are more than .002 the head is warped and to flatten it you will have to take too much off. Just the act of taking off materiel can release built-in stresses and cause the head to warp even more. Bottom line, if your head is warped (bowed) more then .002, you overheated the motor and the head is junk. Probably both are.

[SpudMurphy]

So, the DeLorean workshop manual, states that the cylinder head height must be between 4.373" - 4.379 " and mine was 4.353, with a deflection outside of the .002 tolerance.

It had a deflection of .004.

This indicates that the cylinder head has been re faced before by 20 thousandths of an inch.
So my head and one would have to guess "both heads" are toast!

59417

[David T]

I would not try to mathematically determine the warpage. Get a straightedge and some feeler gauges and actually measure it. If the heads are really cut that much (I suspect that they were not) they are garbage. Did the motor look like it was part before? Why did you pull the head in the first place? BTW do NOT move the crankshaft unless you have liner locks installed. If you disturb the liners and break the seal you will have to pull the motor and reseal the liners.

[SpudMurphy]

I would not try to mathematically determine the warpage. Get a straightedge and some feeler gauges and actually measure it. If the heads are really cut that much (I suspect that they were not) they are garbage. Did the motor look like it was part before? Why did you pull the head in the first place? BTW do NOT move the crankshaft unless you have liner locks installed. If you disturb the liners and break the seal you will have to pull the motor and reseal the liners.

Hi David.
The head was measured in exactly the way you state. - a straightedge and feeler gauges.
The head dimension per the manual is 4.373 +.006 - so a newly manufactured head can be in the range 4.373 and 4.379.
Mine was measured at the shop to be 4.353 - so it infers a 20 thou skim has been carried out before?
the cylinders have fresh honing marks and it would seem like the engine has been apart before.

Why did I pull the head? well, a number of reasons.
- there was shards of ceramic in #3 - caused by a brand new spark plug shedding it's sleeve (thanks Bosch!)
- an endoscope showed a small amount of water in #1 - but that could have entered when the spark plug removed?
- if the the car has been subject to overheating then I wanted to reduce the risk of break down by having the head refaced - my good friend own a machine shop and will do this work for me very cheaply.
- during the refurb of this car I had already removed/replaced a lot of components like exhaust etc so I knew the car was not going to fight me by snapping studs etc
- this is my retirement project - so with that and all the above - taking the head off was the right thing to do - and no end of trying to get the shards out of #3 worked.

I have since been contacted by an established DMC dealer that the heads would not be garbage after a 20 thou cut - he's done 100's of Delorean heads, so I would think that I could trust him?
But I'd be interested to hear your point of view on why the heads are now garbage?

Thanks on the heads up on the liners - The cam sprocket is held up and the battery has been disconnected and a sign put on the steering wheel saying "do not start engine"

[David T]

If the motor was overheated you would know it. It would be using coolant, blowing coolant out, and generally running lousy. I never heard of someone preemptively surfacing a head without some evidence of a blown head gasket. And NEVER just one on a motor that has 2 heads. One obvious sign of overheating is the plastic screen in the oil filler. If it is melted or missing then you can suspect the motor has been overheated. You confirm by testing for combustion gasses in the coolant. Pieces of spark plug are concerning but I would try to get them out the spark plug hole before removing the head. If someone had to take 20 thou off the heads they were severely overheated and to try to flatten them and have to take even more off is way too much. I am suspicious of your measurements and would recheck your cylinder height in several places. Whatever you do to one you should do to the other head. If the heads really are cut that much you should not waste any time or money on them. Find a good used set and clean them up. As for honing marks, even on a well used motor you could still see honing marks so that by itself is not a good sign of previous work. More obvious would be sealant, the gaskets, wrench marks on the bolts, spots where things may have been beaten or pried on, that kind of thing.

[Ron]

I have since been contacted by an established DMC dealer that the heads would not be garbage after a 20 thou cut - he's done 100's of Delorean heads, so I would think that I could trust him?
My guess is that he has a source for cylinder head spacer shims or over-sized gaskets that compensate for the material removed...

[SpudMurphy]

If the motor was overheated you would know it. It would be using coolant, blowing coolant out, and generally running lousy. I never heard of someone preemptively surfacing a head without some evidence of a blown head gasket. And NEVER just one on a motor that has 2 heads. One obvious sign of overheating is the plastic screen in the oil filler. If it is melted or missing then you can suspect the motor has been overheated. You confirm by testing for combustion gasses in the coolant. Pieces of spark plug are concerning but I would try to get them out the spark plug hole before removing the head. If someone had to take 20 thou off the heads they were severely overheated and to try to flatten them and have to take even more off is way too much. I am suspicious of your measurements and would recheck your cylinder height in several places. Whatever you do to one you should do to the other head. If the heads really are cut that much you should not waste any time or money on them. Find a good used set and clean them up. As for honing marks, even on a well used motor you could still see honing marks so that by itself is not a good sign of previous work. More obvious would be sealant, the gaskets, wrench marks on the bolts, spots where things may have been beaten or pried on, that kind of thing.

David
I will be doing the two heads.
This is a project car - it came to me on a trailer together with boxes of bits.
The car went to Dubai in 82, returned to the UK in 94, and has never been used on UK roads - it's not even registered to do that.

Having spent time in Dubai myself - the roads over there in 82 were not good and temperatures easily get to 50+ / 125 degrees - so there would be a every likelihood that it overheated - the wires from the otterstat were bridged keeping the fans on all the time

When I got it the engine had not been fired up since the 90's.
I've replaced all the fuel lines, pump, water coolant pipes, water pump (and a lot more)
After establishing that a previous owner had reinstalled the distributor at TDC on the exhaust stroke, after reinstating the accumulator which had been removed and bypassed, after replacing the distributor, bleeding the air out I fired up the engine - it ran fine and started first time every time but I could only time it to TDC - (still a tooth out) and the water wasn't circulating - the engine may have overheated (again) .

I found water in #1 using an endoscopic camera - it was water not unburnt fuel.

There is a lot more evidence to infer that the car has had work.
- gasket sealer, the main 36 mm bolt on the engine has quite clearly been removed.
- The cylinder head valves had identifying marks punched into them - I can only presume to aid re assembly.
The measurements were carried out by a guy who has done this work for 50 + years.
He showed me the results on a micrometer - I verified this when I got home using my own digital Vernier gauge.

So I'm not quite sure where you are going with your comments and you have me confused?
In one instance you say that my head is trashed - now you say do the two of them the same ?

I'm trying to resurrect this car, and pulling the heads seems the right thing to do and this has been confirmed as the correct thing to do by owners here in the UK.

I seem to be damned if I do and damned if I don't

I have tried to show the measurement on the attached photo and it says 4.354

59440

[SpudMurphy]

My guess is that he has a source for cylinder head spacer shims or over-sized gaskets that compensate for the material removed...

Hi Ron.

He didn't mention that , but I will check. Thanks.

I was on a Swedish Volvo parts stockists and checked out head gasket dimensions - some varied by as much as 8 thou in thickness. One was 1.5 mm thick, the other 1.7 mm

[SpudMurphy]

Here's an interesting thread which verifies my earlier comments

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7116-How-much-can-be-safely-shaved-from-PRV-heads

[Ron]

Hi Ron.

He didn't mention that , but I will check. Thanks.

I was on a Swedish Volvo parts stockists and checked out head gasket dimensions - some varied by as much as 8 thou in thickness. One was 1.5 mm thick, the other 1.7 mm

Having skimmed this thread, I didn't see mention of a compression check?
If several cylinders had acceptable compression, chances are that the bottom half is ok (not damaged by heat...).
Could be a reasonable option.

...I'm not sure if you meant the timing chain itself was installed "one tooth off". Which would throw the compression check off.

[SpudMurphy]

Having skimmed this thread, I didn't see mention of a compression check?
If several cylinders had acceptable compression, chances are that the bottom half is ok (not damaged by heat...).
Could be a reasonable option.

...I'm not sure if you meant the timing chain itself was installed "one tooth off". Which would throw the compression check off.

The distributor (spark) was installed incorrectly . I'm guessing a PO hadn't checked that the valves were on the rock and the cam was looking like "Micky Mouse Ears"

I reset the spark distributor but could not turn it enough to get the timing at 13 BTC. so I took it out and pushed it back in - so it was one tooth out.

The marks on the timing chains have been checked and they line up all ok.

I believe that the bottom half is ok - when I had the engine running - it all seemed ok - I will definitely do a compression check when it's all back together.

[Ron]

I believe that the bottom half is ok - when I had the engine running - it all seemed ok - I will definitely do a compression check when it's all back together.
I see... Sounds like you are going for it. :thumbup:

[SpudMurphy]

I see... Sounds like you are going for it. :thumbup:

Cheers Ron.
Yes I'm doing the best I can but having never worked on a Delorean it's a learning curve.

It was my ambition to have a car project when I retired and I bought #11789 knowing it required a lot of work - well the doors were held tight on the delivery trailer by cling film :)

it was a big moment getting the engine running but it wasn't "on song". A stuck oil light sensor left the red warning light on, on the dashboard (it has a can which slides within a chamber and the can was stuck). But the oil pressure was showing good.

I solved that - and ended taking off the old exhaust to make solving the can problem a lot easier. I ended up putting on a nice stainless exhaust (stainless headers and no cat - mine didn't have a cat from new - as ironically Dubai didn't have unleaded fuel back in 82.

Lets wind forward - I opened the engine core plugs and drained the block and flushed it through with a hose .
fast forward - and now I had to take the head off as shards of ceramic had fallen into#3 - vacuum or grease on a stick wouldn't get the bits out .... but even if I did get two big pieces out would I be confident that I had got the small bits out?

Finally, after measuring the head it showed that 20 thou was skimmed off the deck.
I rely on information provided by other users and when somebody says its basically only good for landfill, then worries / concerns creep in.

Don Steger has set my mind at rest saying that you can take off up to 40 thou - I'll take off as little as possible ... and will do both heads, one by one .... not together.


59444

[Parzival]

I'm guessing that since they had the fans hot wired to run 100% of the time, that who ever did that was fighting with heat, and over heating. Sucks that you are inheriting the ghosts of these past issues with the car. Lucky for that car, you are dedicated to implementing the proper fixes, and its gonna be a great car when you're done I'm sure! Just out of curiosity, was the plastic oil fill screen on the valve cover intact?

[SpudMurphy]

I'm guessing that since they had the fans hot wired to run 100% of the time, that who ever did that was fighting with heat, and over heating. Sucks that you are inheriting the ghosts of these past issues with the car. Lucky for that car, you are dedicated to implementing the proper fixes, and its gonna be a great car when you're done I'm sure! Just out of curiosity, was the plastic oil fill screen on the valve cover intact?
Yeah- ironically I was going to be buying the the DeLorean now, in 2019.

However, Prices were going up (as were most classic cars), and because of the brexit announcement, the pound / dollar exchange was hurting.

There was nothing around at the time under £20K and this one came along .
I was working in Scotland, where it was situated - I went to see it and realised that it was in a state!!! - a typical project car - not the turn key example I wanted to buy.

The car is the last one built in a batch of 50 - that were exported to the Middle East.

There's a thread here on it's discovery, but I think that the pictures no longer "work".

http://www.deloreaneurotec.uk/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=1613


It's not going to beat me, and I don't have a bottomless wallet so I'll have to do most of the work myself - hey it keeps me busy !!!

[David T]

It sounds like you have your mind made up and are doing this for the experience as much as anything else. Try to cut both heads an equal amount, cutting off the least you can. Harder to do when you do it one at a time because you don't know what you have to take off the second head but now you have put the first one back on! Put it together but you should consider adding gaskets or shims to make up the difference. You should have done *some* testing before you took it apart if it ran, like a compression test, combustion gas test, leak-down test, so you know what needs fixing and what doesn't. Very unusual for the oil warning light sender to get stuck. Most of the time the light stays on because the wire going to it gets burned up and grounds out. Once you get it running again use some motor flush and then change the oil. Put a mechanical gauge on it and actually measure the oil pressure to verify good oil pressure. Pressure test the coolant system BEFORE you install the intake manifold. That way if you see any leaks you can fix them without having to take the manifold off. The fans should not run continuously. It is bad for the electrical system. Get the "O" switch connected and working. The water pump is usually replaced when you take off the intake manifold along with all of the gaskets, seals, belts, hoses, thermostat and idler bearings. The vendors sell what they call the "Master Kit" that has everything you need including all of the copper seals for the fuel system. Best to do all of this at one time so you don't have to go back in again. When you find signs of previous work, oftentimes you must take it all apart and redo it because it usually isn't done correctly. Follow the procedures in the Workshop Manual especially the torque procedure for the heads. Replace all of the small rubber vacuum hoses under the intake manifold and double-check the routing. Be sure to get the distributor timing set correctly too. That could have caused the spark plug to overheat and shed the porcelain. When you get the heads done, lap the valves to assure a good seal. Take your time and have fun.

[SpudMurphy]

Hi David.

All great advice. The valves have already been checked using a dedicated tester in the workshop.

I wish it was a case of me wanting to do this for the experience. You couldn't be further from the truth.

I had spent a lot of time working on refurbing this car and it was "getting there". Now it's all taken apart again - a big step backwards.

Doing it one head at a time will be fine - we'll measure carefully.

I have a friend - a 71 year old Volvo mechanic who also did a lot of Rally mechanics with Ford cars - He's an amazing guy who is still incredibly active - now with over 55 years experience of swinging spanners.
He owned his own Volvo business which he sold on and still flourishes to this day - so he knows the PRV very well and he is helping me with this.

Yup, indeed the oil can in the pressure light sensor was stuck fast - when I removed the sensor , the can part was still in the engine stuck fast. An m14 tap bit into it and it came out. I've only read of one other instance of this on the internet , but I'm sure it is probably a lot more common than that?

The timing was way out (initially) so yes, the new plugs I put in didn't stand a chance!

this shows the new sensor and part of the old one - the other part was stuck inside the oil gallery.


59447

[dmc4087]

Might be worth checking your cam journals if you haven't already, before skimming the heads. On my old heads that were warped, there was heavy scoring where the cam sits which meant the heads were scrap I believe.

[David T]

If you have an experienced Volvo tech he should have more and better knowledge than you are going to get here. Sounds like this motor was abused for the plug to melt and the oil sensor to get stuck. Having the timing way off was very bad and would contribute to all of the other problems. Sounds like you are in good hands.

[SpudMurphy]

If you have an experienced Volvo tech he should have more and better knowledge than you are going to get here. Sounds like this motor was abused for the plug to melt and the oil sensor to get stuck. Having the timing way off was very bad and would contribute to all of the other problems. Sounds like you are in good hands.
It was always going to be a risk when I bought the car.

in the scheme of things having been in Dubai for 12 years then dry stored in the UK since 1994, it's very good condition rust wise. When I took the head off the "crud/gunge" around the liners was minimal. I'm afraid shit happens when a car sits around all this time.

Anyways I'll post an update in a few weeks - good or bad :)

[SpudMurphy]

Might be worth checking your cam journals if you haven't already, before skimming the heads. On my old heads that were warped, there was heavy scoring where the cam sits which meant the heads were scrap I believe.

Cheers - good call - they all look fine. will check again when I'm down the workshop = the tech guy did have a look at them and felt with his finger nail - as I say all seems to be ok

[SpudMurphy]

As I say , I was getting on ok - I was at this stage then had to strip down a lot of the work that I had already carried out.

gutted to be doing the head - but better to be safe than sorry :-(


59464

[David T]

Comments from seeing the picture;
You have the auto bleeder installed. Usually done because you either have leaks or blown head gaskets or both.
Wrong hose (universal with the corrugations) going to the water pump.
The header tank was replaced with the S/S one.
Water pump was replaced.
The air intake was modified (the heat stove over the exhaust manifold was removed).
Some kind of bracket by the engine cover hold-open.
Throttle recall shield missing.

[SpudMurphy]

You have the auto bleeder installed. Usually done because you either have leaks or blown head gaskets or both.
- Yup, I installed that. I thought that I may have had an air lock. The car is currently up on blocks and is not driving, so I had most of the bits to do it , and thought why not as it makes the bleeding a lot easier in my situation. I have a shut off valve on it, and also a bleeder on the front of the car
Wrong hose (universal with the corrugations) going to the water pump.
That was on the car when I got it - it's all ok, and I like the look of it.
The header tank was replaced with the S/S one.
Water pump was replaced.
I replaced the header tank and changed the water pump, all the hoses (except for the two large ones that come out of the water pump), aluminium coolant pipes that run under the frame, rad and fans - so it has a lot of positive things, that should mitigate the risk of over heating
The air intake was modified (the heat stove over the exhaust manifold was removed).
I took the stove pipe off, many people seem to have done that. I also got rid of the cast iron headers and the old exhaust and replaced it with a modern SS one . It was manufactured without a cat so I didn't add one. The new one dispensed with the balance pipe that runs behind the engine - the pipe where wiring looms go to die. Talking of looms I re routed the loom that goes over the top of the engine. Even Barrie Wills states that he was not proud of that!
Some kind of bracket by the engine cover hold-open.
I made that because the original plastic bracket was missing. It is non invasive and can easily be put back stock
Throttle recall shield missing.
I'll never have that on my car. IMO they look dreadful. I wonder if the middle East cars even had one? I will be getting one though as I do like the look of the ones made by DPI

[David T]

In making my comments I was trying not to say if the changes were good or bad, just that they were changes. Not every Delorean owner knows what is original and what isn't, that's all. Generally speaking, new parts are good, better than 30 year old parts!

[SpudMurphy]

In making my comments I was trying not to say if the changes were good or bad, just that they were changes. Not every Delorean owner knows what is original and what isn't, that's all. Generally speaking, new parts are good, better than 30 year old parts!

You are right.
When I got this car 2 years ago I would not have known about the things you pointed out, so it's good to let people know (who aren't in the know).

It's a bit frustrating when I have done done things to the car that "Joe Public" wouldn't notice - like the door strut mod involving beefing up the body tub mounting point, or ..... the roof box bolt down mod .. essential work now that 37 years have elapsed