Alternator not providing power anyone know what it could be?

[djrobinfo]

Okay so a little background info. The car sat for 6 years, partly because I was in college and kept the car at my parents and partly because I wouldn't start. I finally got the car to my house and got a chance to mess with it. After trouble shooting (and charging the battery) for a while I determined that my RPM relay was bad. I ordered a new one and when it came I put it in and the car started up and ran for a couple of seconds then died. I tried to start it again but the battery. The battery being dead was no surprise because I had been trouble shooting and trying to start it a lot before the new relay came and I did not recharge it. So anyway I put a trickle charger on it for a few hours then jump started it with my truck. The Delorean started right up and ran. I let it run still hooked up to my truck for about 5 to 10 minutes then unhooked it. The delorean kept running for about another 5 minutes and then died. So I borrowed a bigger charger from a friend and charged the battery to 100%. Then I started the car. It started right up. But then I tried to drive it and it wasn't getting enough power when I put it in reverse. I had to give it a push to get it moving. It seemed to have more power when I put it in drive but still not as much as it should have. I drove around the block and it would drive but only maybe up to 30 mph. When I drove up a hill it would only go about 5 to 10 mph. As I pulled up to my house the radio died and and about 30 seconds later the car died. But all the lights stayed on. My guess was that the alternator was bad or not working for some reason. So I took the battery out and back on the charger. The charger said the battery only had 40% power left. It have been at 100% before. Then I was really thinking it was the alternator so I took the alternator off and took it to AutoZone and had it tested. To my surprise it passed the test and they said it was good. I am now guessing that I have a bad connection somewhere between the alternator and the battery but I'm not sure where. Or maybe another bad relay or something. I am going to start checking all of the wires and connections from the alternator and see what I can find. If anyone has any ideas or has had this problem before please let me know.

[Jonathan]

Does the battery warning light in the instrument cluster come on? To test, when you put the key in to the ignition and turn to ON, it should light up the battery warning symbol as part of the start-up sequence. If there is no light, there will be no alternator charging. A bulb needs to be in there and functional for the system to work. And it can't be an LED. Easy thing to check without much effort to at least rule that out.

[djrobinfo]

Ok so I just cleaned the connections on the alternator and the wires that connect to it and then put it all back together. With the battery having a full charge I started the car. It started and then sputtered out. I started it again and it ran but not any better than before. I turned on all the lights, the a/c, and radio and let it run. The volt reading on the dash was showing right in between the 8 and 13 volt marks the whole time it was running. I let it run for about 10 or so and then cut it off. I hooked the battery up to the charger and it was at 60% so still the same thing as before. Also I forgot to mention before that the red "brake" light in the dash has been on the whole time but the brake is not engaged.

I will check the battery light next. I did not notice it before but I was not looking for it.]
Thanks

[Jonathan]

Also I forgot to mention before that the red "brake" light in the dash has been on the whole time but the brake is not engaged.

I will check the battery light next. I did not notice it before but I was not looking for it.]
Thanks

The brake light on the dash lighting would not normally be related to the problem with the alternator. It could be, but that would be more in the bizarre realm. The printed circuit can't swap them bulbs like it would if they looked like the connections behind the HVAC panel, and the connector is one big one. Conceivably, some wires are terminated in the connector incorrectly, but that would be very rare.

The brake light will come on with the parking brake (as you mentioned), but it will also come on as part of the sensor on top of the brake reservoir. Refresh my memory, is your car coming out of a rebuild/restoration? Or is it one that's been driven recently over the last few seasons? Do you know if your brake fluid is in good shape and proper level? Have a look at the reservoir through the opening under the trunk carpet and in front of the gas fill spot. Slide that access panel out of the way and tell us what you see (or post a photo). It could be a connection on the switch is bad. The "button" on top is supposed to be a test button, but mine has never worked so that's a bit of a guess.

[djrobinfo]

I didn't figure the brake light had anything to do with the alternator. I just thought I would mention it. The car has never been rebuilt or restored. I have had it for 11 years. I got it when I was in high school and drove it back then. I took it to DMC in houston twice 10 years ago. They changed out the distributor, the fuel accumulator, worked on the cooling system and i can't remember what else. While I was in college the I kept the car at my parents house and there it set until a couple of years after college. Then it sat in my garage for about 6 months. so any way the are had been sitting for probable 5 years with out being started at all. Now that you mention it I do remember now that one time when I was in college and went home to visit I tried to drive the car but the brakes were locked up. I was going to change the fluid the next time I was home but when I went to work on it the brakes were no longer locked up so I never messed with it. So as for the brake light it is probably the fluid.

I will check that battery light now and get back to you.

Thanks

[djrobinfo]

Does the battery warning light in the instrument cluster come on? To test, when you put the key in to the ignition and turn to ON, it should light up the battery warning symbol as part of the start-up sequence. If there is no light, there will be no alternator charging. A bulb needs to be in there and functional for the system to work. And it can't be an LED. Easy thing to check without much effort to at least rule that out.

The battery light did not come on. Not with the just the key on or with the car running. I tried they key in all positions and no battery light. So are you saying that it could possible that the bulb is burnt out and if so it needs a new bulb for the system to make the alternator charge the battery?

[David T]

The battery light did not come on. Not with the just the key on or with the car running. I tried they key in all positions and no battery light. So are you saying that it could possible that the bulb is burnt out and if so it needs a new bulb for the system to make the alternator charge the battery?

The very first thing you need to do is have the battery fully charged and load tested. You cannot properly troubleshoot the charging system till you have a good battery. Low system voltage can be causing the running problems. After 6 years of sitting you probably have brake and clutch problems. That brake light might be on because all of the fluid leaked out. Once you have a good battery then you can see if the alternator is making power. If the battery is too low it can't excite the windings in the alternator. You may also have a problem in the charging system. If you do not see the alternator warning light on when the key is on but the motor is not running, that is a problem. Could be a burnt out bulb, a bad connection somewhere or a bad alternator.
David Teitelbaum

[Ron]

Yes, if it is stock, the battery light has to work before the system will charge. It sounds like a bad bulb or connection to it since other things on the circuit work.

[Jonathan]

Yes, if it is stock, the battery light has to work before the system will charge. It sounds like a bad bulb or connection to it since other things on the circuit work.

^ What he said :)

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5085-Binnacle-Removal-and-Bulb-Replacement

Read up on this thread here to replace your bulb. It is on my to-do list as well (not the battery bulb though, my highbeams bulb). Let me know how it goes and then you can teach me something :thumbup2:

[djrobinfo]

As I said before, the battery is good and was charged to 100% when I started. Also I had the alternator tested and it is good.

So now I'm hoping it is that bulb. I am going to attempt to pull instrument-cluster and check it out.

[djrobinfo]

Okay so I tried to pull the instrument panel but it was difficult to see what is going on under there. I could see some small nuts that look like they could be what I need to remove to take the panel out but I thought I would ask if anyone knew before I started removing nuts I could barely see. Any one know?

[TTait]

I didn't figure the brake light had anything to do with the alternator. I just thought I would mention it.

I'm going out on a limb here - but where we have said that the battery/voltage lamp in the dash must be working - its more correct to say that the circuit through that lamp must be good, including that lamp itself.

When you remove and reinstall the binnacle/instrument cluster, you will find a flexible plastic sheet with a circuit board on it that mates up to the electrical harness. It is easy to damage/fold/tear the plastic and damage the circuit board. Its possible (but unlikely unless you have hand the instrument cluster disconnected recently) that there is a fold or short in the connections here, and that the brake circuit is finding ground through your battery light wiring, or something similar. Consider this a longshot, but possible.

Finally, I don't think this is part of your problem, but for the benefit of others trying to solve similar problems at 2am one night: Be aware that some alternators (like my original ducey) can somehow operate fine even if the lamp in the dash is blown out. When I replace that alternator the new one did not charge. I was 100% sure that the problem was the new alternator, because the old one worked again as soon as I put it back in. I was wrong of course. The moral there is always check the lamp

[djrobinfo]

^ What he said :)

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5085-Binnacle-Removal-and-Bulb-Replacement

Read up on this thread here to replace your bulb. It is on my to-do list as well (not the battery bulb though, my highbeams bulb). Let me know how it goes and then you can teach me something :thumbup2:

I HAVE TO REMOVE THE SEAT TO CHANGE A LIGHT BULB!?! I shouldn't be surprised being that I have owned a Delorean for 11 years. LOL. You know what I mean.

Anyway this looks good. I'm going to try it tomorrow. I will try to make a video of it and post it on youtube. I will let you know how it goes and if the video works out I will post a link to it.

Thanks a lot. Lets just hope it is just a bad bulb.

By the way, I might as well change out the rest of the bulbs while I'm in there. From what I have read so far it looks like the battery light is the only one that that should not be replaced with an LED is this right? I was thinking I might put LEDs in for all the others (not the battery light of course). Anyone know if there are any otheres that should not be replaced with LEDs? Or would the rest be ok? I'm pretty sure I read a blog where a guy said he used LEDs for all others and an Incandescent 161 for the battery but I don't know if he ever had any problems with it.

[mluder]

I HAVE TO REMOVE THE SEAT TO CHANGE A LIGHT BULB!?!

You don't HAVE to remove the seat... Kinda depends on your size and flexibility. I have been in astronaut position several times under my dash and while not comfortable it can be done. Seat removal is only necessary if you can't fit under there with it in.

Cheers
Steven

[djrobinfo]

I'm not the biggest guy I know but I'm not small. I had a hard time just looking up under there. I don't think I could fit my hands/ arms with tools and everything. Honestly I think it would probably take less time to remove the seat than it would if I try to squeeze in there. Well we will see tomorrow.

[kings1527]

I HAVE TO REMOVE THE SEAT TO CHANGE A LIGHT BULB!?! I shouldn't be surprised being that I have owned a Delorean for 11 years. LOL. You know what I mean.

Anyway this looks good. I'm going to try it tomorrow. I will try to make a video of it and post it on youtube. I will let you know how it goes and if the video works out I will post a link to it.

Thanks a lot. Lets just hope it is just a bad bulb.

By the way, I might as well change out the rest of the bulbs while I'm in there. From what I have read so far it looks like the battery light is the only one that that should not be replaced with an LED is this right? I was thinking I might put LEDs in for all the others (not the battery light of course). Anyone know if there are any otheres that should not be replaced with LEDs? Or would the rest be ok? I'm pretty sure I read a blog where a guy said he used LEDs for all others and an Incandescent 161 for the battery but I don't know if he ever had any problems with it.

You might be referring to my blog. Everything that I've done with my LED conversion has been working like a charm. No issues.

While you're in there, swap everything out with LEDs like you're talking about. Now's the time to do it and its very easy to do. And as you know, stay incandescent with the battery bulb.

[Dangermouse]

I'm with David T on this - get your battery load tested (or just replace it). If it has been sitting for 6 years (and probably wasn't brand new then) it will have deteriorated and cannot hold a charge. Yes, you will see 12V on it but it won't have any power (Ah).

Wouldn't hurt to clean the main ground connection for the alternator on the engine mount and the main battery connection in the engine compartment.

[djrobinfo]

I'm with David T on this - get your battery load tested (or just replace it). If it has been sitting for 6 years (and probably wasn't brand new then) it will have deteriorated and cannot hold a charge. Yes, you will see 12V on it but it won't have any power (Ah).

Wouldn't hurt to clean the main ground connection for the alternator on the engine mount and the main battery connection in the engine compartment.

Well I wanted to disagree with you and I went against my better judgment and did not have the battery tested before I removed the binnacle. I checked the battery light bulb and it seems to not be burnt out. I guess it could be the battery but when charged up it will start the car. And from my limited experience with other cars I was under the impression that once the car is running if the alternator was working properly it wouldn't matter if the battery was holding a charge. Forgive me if this is a stupid question but is that not right? And by the way yes the battery is just over six years old. but sill I get it. I knew I should have had the battery tested first :swear1: Oh well at least I can change out the bulbs to LEDs. I will also replace the battery with a new incandescent bulb while I'm at it. And even if it ends up being the battery it was not all a loss. I made a video of me removing the binnacle so that others can see how it is done. it wasn't the hardest job but I could have done it in have the time if I had known a few things first. I will edit the video this weekend and post a link to it.

[Ron]

You should have the battery load tested for GP. But you are right, if the battery will charge enough to start the car by itself and the alternator is working, it should not cause the problems you are reporting.
Bottom line, to me, is that if it will start the car, then the battery has nothing to do with the alternator light not coming on.
If the oil light works, either you have a bad connection to the bulb from fuse 5, or, from the bulb to the alternator (test this by removing the Brown-Yellow wire at the alternator and grounding it -- The light should come on if the key is on.

[Dangermouse]

That's why I mentioned the connections. There could be corrosion that is preventing full voltage getting around the circuit.



I will also replace the battery with a new incandescent bulb .

:approve:

(I know you meant "battery light" but it made me smile)


Good luck and let us know what you find.

[djrobinfo]

You might be referring to my blog. Everything that I've done with my LED conversion has been working like a charm. No issues.

While you're in there, swap everything out with LEDs like you're talking about. Now's the time to do it and its very easy to do. And as you know, stay incandescent with the battery bulb.

I'm looking at your blog to see what LEDs to use. I am reading where you say "Below are the model numbers, colors, and quantity required" It looks like you had 1 amber, 5 warm white, 5 red, 3 green, 1 blue, and of course the 1 161 incandescent bulb. That is all right? and all the model # are like wled-a-90, wled-g-90, and so on?

[David T]

I'm looking at your blog to see what LEDs to use. I am reading where you say "Below are the model numbers, colors, and quantity required" It looks like you had 1 amber, 5 warm white, 5 red, 3 green, 1 blue, and of course the 1 161 incandescent bulb. That is all right? and all the model # are like wled-a-90, wled-g-90, and so on?

I have seen bad batteries that mess up the charging circuit. You cannot properly troubleshoot the charging system with a battery of unknown quality. If you are changing the bulbs in the dash to LED's you MUST NOT change the one for the charging circuit to LED. It HAS to be an incandescent bulb for the alternator to work properly. Rare for them to burn out but always possible. More likely a problem in the alternator or the wiring.
David Teitelbaum

[djrobinfo]

I have seen bad batteries that mess up the charging circuit. You cannot properly troubleshoot the charging system with a battery of unknown quality. If you are changing the bulbs in the dash to LED's you MUST NOT change the one for the charging circuit to LED. It HAS to be an incandescent bulb for the alternator to work properly. Rare for them to burn out but always possible. More likely a problem in the alternator or the wiring.
David Teitelbaum

Well I ordered LEDs but I went ahead and put a new 161 incandescent bulb in for the charging circuit and put it all back together. I just left the bolts out so I can take it out easier when the LEDs come. Anyway, I think it worked. The battery light came on! and the car started right up. Won't know for sure until I run the car a little while but I am hopeful. I was pretty sure that the battery was good.

[Ron]

You wiggled something! :thumbup2:

[Jonathan]

You wiggled something! :thumbup2:

Must have been the Force!!


...Anyway, I think it worked. The battery light came on! and the car started right up. Won't know for sure until I run the car a little while but I am hopeful. I was pretty sure that the battery was good.

Woo hoo!! Good job. Congrats!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yixG8pfncOs

[djrobinfo]

Well I may have fixed that or I may not have but at least the light comes on now. If I did fix it than I have another problem. the car is still idling very shaky and when i first start it up i can press on the gas and it does nothing. After about 30 seconds or so I can rev the engine but at first it does nothing. Also it still isn't getting enough power when in reverse or drive. I put it in reverse and push the gas and it does almost nothing. If I put my foot out the door and push it gets it moving but still very slow and not with much power. In drive it get much more power than in reverse but still far less than it should be. Could this be related to my alternator / battery problem? or something else? I will search for an answer but in the meantime let me know what you think.

[Jonathan]

Well I may have fixed that or I may not have but at least the light comes on now. If I did fix it than I have another problem. the car is still idling very shaky and when i first start it up i can press on the gas and it does nothing. After about 30 seconds or so I can rev the engine but at first it does nothing. Also it still isn't getting enough power when in reverse or drive. I put it in reverse and push the gas and it does almost nothing. If I put my foot out the door and push it gets it moving but still very slow and not with much power. In drive it get much more power than in reverse but still far less than it should be. Could this be related to my alternator / battery problem? or something else? I will search for an answer but in the meantime let me know what you think.

I would bet it is a different issue.

In your original explanation of the car shutting off/dying to describe the battery, alternator, light bulb problem, I would determine if that has improved. You said you can start the car up and it runs. Does it still shut off like it did earlier before you changed the battery warning light bulb? If it does not, I would say we move on to problem number two :)

So, in terms of what you mentioned, and it sounds like you have an auto trans (?), someone else on here just the other day was mentioning this low/no power in drive or reverse. We speculated it could be throttle linkage adjustment related, but a better thing to determine first is what the auto trans fluid levels and condition are. It is relatively easy to check level and/or change the fluid entirely. I'm about to do the same. ATF too low or too high is no good. If your car has sat for some length of time, I wouldn't be surprised if the fluid needs attention.

[djrobinfo]

I would bet it is a different issue.

In your original explanation of the car shutting off/dying to describe the battery, alternator, light bulb problem, I would determine if that has improved. You said you can start the car up and it runs. Does it still shut off like it did earlier before you changed the battery warning light bulb? If it does not, I would say we move on to problem number two :)

So, in terms of what you mentioned, and it sounds like you have an auto trans (?), someone else on here just the other day was mentioning this low/no power in drive or reverse. We speculated it could be throttle linkage adjustment related, but a better thing to determine first is what the auto trans fluid levels and condition are. It is relatively easy to check level and/or change the fluid entirely. I'm about to do the same. ATF too low or too high is no good. If your car has sat for some length of time, I wouldn't be surprised if the fluid needs attention.

Yes I agree I think it is an unrelated problem. the car does not shut off anymore and the battery seems to be getting the proper voltage now. I will check the trans fluid. can you give me the link to the other post where they were talking about this?

[djrobinfo]

I would bet it is a different issue.

In your original explanation of the car shutting off/dying to describe the battery, alternator, light bulb problem, I would determine if that has improved. You said you can start the car up and it runs. Does it still shut off like it did earlier before you changed the battery warning light bulb? If it does not, I would say we move on to problem number two :)

So, in terms of what you mentioned, and it sounds like you have an auto trans (?), someone else on here just the other day was mentioning this low/no power in drive or reverse. We speculated it could be throttle linkage adjustment related, but a better thing to determine first is what the auto trans fluid levels and condition are. It is relatively easy to check level and/or change the fluid entirely. I'm about to do the same. ATF too low or too high is no good. If your car has sat for some length of time, I wouldn't be surprised if the fluid needs attention.

Good call the trans fluid was very very low. Thanks

[Jonathan]

Good call the trans fluid was very very low. Thanks

Not to make any assumptions...

ATF gets checked typically with the car on a level surface, while running. Warm the engine up enough for coolant fans to cycle on once or twice. Keep engine running, foot on brake/parking brake engaged, and go through gears once or twice. P to R to N to D, 2, 1, and back to P. Then repeat. Then, with engine still running, check dipstick for level. You'll notice it says cold, warm, hot on the end of the dipstick as it is relative to the engine temperature. If low, add small amounts until correct or drain completely and refill according to manual.

Just wanted to mention this for good measure :) .... eeek, haha, I wasn't even trying to be punny there. Yikes, lol.

[djrobinfo]

Not to make any assumptions...

ATF gets checked typically with the car on a level surface, while running. Warm the engine up enough for coolant fans to cycle on once or twice. Keep engine running, foot on brake/parking brake engaged, and go through gears once or twice. P to R to N to D, 2, 1, and back to P. Then repeat. Then, with engine still running, check dipstick for level. You'll notice it says cold, warm, hot on the end of the dipstick as it is relative to the engine temperature. If low, add small amounts until correct or drain completely and refill according to manual.

Just wanted to mention this for good measure :) .... eeek, haha, I wasn't even trying to be punny there. Yikes, lol.

Yeah I wouldn't have know to do all of that except I read the manual first. So I did go through the correct process. I would not have if I didn't check the manual first. Thanks for the tip.