DeLorean Value - Greatly Overstated

[Dracula]

To carry over the conversations that people seem to want to have about the car I'm trying to sell here:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?4893-Stage-II-DeLorean-with-under-28-000-miles-SEVERELY-REDUCED-PRICE-29-000-on-eBay&p=118682#post118682

I believe that the values of DeLoreans are greatly over-stated, especially by owners.

I want to get out of the DeLorean community and, as to how I feel about the process of selling my car, it's simple:

I was hoping that one of these people who are always appearing and saying that they're doing their research and waiting for the "right" car to show up would have seen what a screaming deal mine was and buy it. I don't have the time or spare resources to dedicate to selling the car at an auction and I'm not losing any more money on it.

Case in point, there's this car that sold through DMC Midwest $45,000.

http://dmcmidwest.com/delorean/6797/

What did it have over mine? Mine has 20,000 more miles and a Stage II upgrade as well as all the suspension and handling upgrades for $15,000 LESS!

I don't think that there was anything wrong with my eBay ad and that I have already severely undercut the value of my car as it is.

How about this one?

http://delorean.com/delorean/10682/

They sold it, per their website, for $35,000. It has under 500 miles difference and next to NOTHING done to it.

If they sell this one at $32,500, the buyer is an idiot.

http://delorean.com/delorean/1441/#!prettyPhoto

My car, for $2,500 less, has 11,000 fewer miles and a complete service history that exceeds my asking price.

The same goes for this car, though, they only have 3,000 more miles than I do.

http://delorean.com/delorean/5568/#!prettyPhoto

The point I'm trying to make with all of these links is that there is next to no research being done by the general DeLorean-buying public and either there are a number of saps over-paying for these cars or DMCH lies through their website about what they sell them for.

The value of a DeLorean is greatly over-stated and buying a nice driver for $15,000 is the rule, not the exception. There are a lot of dogmatic things that people like to say in the DeLorean community: The "Rule of 25," the $57,500 list price of a "new build" car, the inflated prices asked by the DMC satellite shops that cars somehow sell for, etc.

I was convinced that my 30k mile fully restored and upgraded Stage II-equipped car would bring $30,000 without a doubt on eBay, but with ZERO bids and no offers to-date, I'm now willing to say that the value of a Stage II car is no more than that of a standard DeLorean and that all DeLoreans are only worth sub-$20,000 and that anyone who pays more than that is overpaying.

This perceived illusion of DeLorean value and notice that there's a funny taste in the Kool-Aid that has filtered from DMCH through the media in regards to what these cars sell for and are worth.

[Jonathan]

Hey Chad,

I won't try to dispute what you're saying here, because I've not done my own research on car values with respect to asking versus actual sold numbers.

What I was going to mention was, do you think this phenomena would also be seen in other areas? Like other classic ars for example, or even other products or items with somewhat arbitrary values?

I could see values of say Lotus Esprits from the 80s having a similar situation, or maybe a lot of other old cars. I see them much more often, and only because they made a million + of them, but a lot of Corvettes for sale at shows and what not have asking pirces way out of line with what you more or less know they are actually worth. Not saying that helps your car sell, but it seems common. No idea the accuracy of DMCH posted sold prices, but that's likely not something any of us can know until you speak to an owner who actually admits to paying that. A fellow on here did mention paying in the $50k's for his car, so it's not a complete fabrication at the very least.

The bigger picture might be as all this relates to the economy. If you are selling something with an arbitrary value, which I guess just about everything in life gets an arbitrary price tag in some ways... it will be relative to what someone is willing to pay. Real estate, comic books, cars, used clothing. DeLorean values are not exempt and if most people reading here are on the owner/buyer end and not the seller, most of us might not have had to experience what you're doing. No details here, but I wonder if some folks from recent years like Wilson in Colorado or Rene the Military girl, took a bath on their cars when they sold them? Like I said, not saying it will help put dollars in your pocket, but it might help you sleep better at night.

A local owner to me contacted a family member of mine a summer or two ago because he wanted to talk interiors. My Uncle does this for a living and he does really great work. He normally does Ferraris but I put him in touch with this owner because I thought he might be able to help. Long story short, the call didn't go well because the DeLorean guy talked about some pretty fancy and good quality work he needed, but when it came time to talk about what it might cost, all of a sudden those services weren't worth quite as much as they were a minute ago. All talk and no action kind of. Wanted the product/service but wasn't willing to pay for it.

We see it every day with various things in life that we shop for, but man it must be frustrating for sales guys when this long line of us talk about how great an item is, but can't justify spending the money on it. If you are selling your car, it is worth a fortune. If you are buying, it is worth half that. It isn't just DeLoreans, Chad, it's everything that is for sale.

[StainlessSteelDream]

H
What I was going to mention was, do you think this phenomena would also be seen in other areas? Like other classic ars for example, or even other products or items with somewhat arbitrary values?


Some interesting points about this here:
How Paying Good Money Lowers the Value of Your Car (http://www.kenrockwell.com/bmw/collectible.htm)

But basically, when you are selling a "collector car" collector's generally want originality, warts and all. Otherwise it's more a used car; and that's a different market and buyer profile.

The DMCxx people will likely get more $$ because:
A) they are car salesmen, it's want they do.. good salesman hide their feelings and are everyone's friends
B) "dealer" brand name behind them, not from some unknown ebayer etc.

[Jeff K]

Buying from a dealer is a significant advantage, especially for the noob. You have support and service. This is worth a premium.

I bought a Stage II DMC Texas rebuild second hand, it was pristine. Kept it for a year and sold it for 32,500 in 16 days. I was into the car about 28,500.

Did you try Autotrader.com?

[thirdmanj]

Buying from a dealer is a significant advantage, especially for the noob. You have support and service. This is worth a premium.

I bought a Stage II DMC Texas rebuild second hand, it was pristine. Kept it for a year and sold it for 32,500 in 16 days. I was into the car about 28,500.

Did you try Autotrader.com?

This is pretty much what I was gonna say before all the bullsh-t. DMC may not be many things, but they are a known name and very public. They don't offer much (as far as I'm concerned) by way of warranties and such, but it will give a new buyer better piece of mind than a guy from Wisconsin who dresses like a vampire. Now, if you were to offer a warranty on your D, in writing, that was comparable or better than DMCH's, maybe you'd get a taker or two.

[Jeff K]

Also, location is really important!

I live in Los Angeles. These cars have a movie star quality, as you know too well.

Also, the weather is hospitable to driving them year round here.

Jeff

[refugeefromcalif]

No idea the accuracy of DMCH posted sold prices, but that's likely not something any of us can know until you speak to an owner who actually admits to paying that.

I don't have a clue about the accuracy of any other car sales that are listed on the DMC website or, if their owners are even members here.


A fellow on here did mention paying in the $50k's for his car, so it's not a complete fabrication at the very least.

That is me and Here's (http://delorean.com/delorean/6599/) a link to the sales page for my car.


Buying from a dealer is a significant advantage, especially for the noob. You have support and service. This is worth a premium.

I did buy mine from a DMC dealer but, (I've found), Support and Service aren't included in the price until you pay Extra for it on certain cars. (And sometimes not even then).

George

[pezzonovante88]

I agree with pretty much everything said here. I think cosmetic originality and quality are important with DeLoreans. When there are visible customized modifications, I think it takes away from the overall appeal for many prospective buyers. Also, knowing it's from an experienced specialized DeLorean "dealer" would build tons of value for a lot of people.

[Jonathan]

I agree with pretty much everything said here. I think cosmetic originality and quality are important with DeLoreans. When there are visible customized modifications, I think it takes away from the overall appeal for many prospective buyers. Also, knowing it's from an experienced specialized DeLorean "dealer" would build tons of value for a lot of people.

Agreed.

In my case, I bought a car in the $22k territory and at the time the DMCX cars (some, not all) were about $29k. 10 times out of 10 if I got the chance for a redo, I would go back and pay that extra $7k to buy a DMCX car.

Now that I have learned about the cars for the last 6 years maybe it wouldn't justify it anymore, but back when I knew nothing, even just having the feeling I was in good hands would have been very important.

...now, along come Dave and Julee on day two of my DMC ownership and I survived ok. If some of those other pieces didn't fall into place though shortly after I got the car, it would have been abandon ship a long time ago :)

[Dracula]

For those who tout accuracy and originality; have you ever seen a DMC refurbished car? They're ALL '82/'83s. They all get flat hoods and later components. Originally a gas flap car? Flat hood! I've also never been impressed by the build quality of them, either. My car has had all of its work performed by DMC Midwest and was refurbished by them.

I also understand the warranty thing, but that's debatable. If you have the choice of a car at $45,000 with a warranty and few upgrades or one for $30,000 with nearly every upgrade possible and no warranty, there's still $15,000 left over from buying the cheaper car that you can use to address any issues that MIGHT surface, especially since if you wanted to have the Stage II work performed to one of the cars they sell, you'd still have to pay the extra $16,000.

Though, that's MY car. If it serves as any form of an indicator, then the amount of work and servicing that you perform or have performed won't effect the amount that you can sell the car for at the end of the day.

Maybe I should sell my car as a DMCMW Refurbished car, instead. After all, I do have the little plaque that they put on the car when they performed the Stage II work...

[thirdmanj]

For those who tout accuracy and originality; have you ever seen a DMC refurbished car? They're ALL '82/'83s. They all get flat hoods and later components. Originally a gas flap car? Flat hood! I've also never been impressed by the build quality of them, either. My car has had all of its work performed by DMC Midwest and was refurbished by them.

I also understand the warranty thing, but that's debatable. If you have the choice of a car at $45,000 with a warranty and few upgrades or one for $30,000 with nearly every upgrade possible and no warranty, there's still $15,000 left over from buying the cheaper car that you can use to address any issues that MIGHT surface, especially since if you wanted to have the Stage II work performed to one of the cars they sell, you'd still have to pay the extra $16,000.

Though, that's MY car. If it serves as any form of an indicator, then the amount of work and servicing that you perform or have performed won't effect the amount that you can sell the car for at the end of the day.

Maybe I should sell my car as a DMCMW Refurbished car, instead. After all, I do have the little plaque that they put on the car when they performed the Stage II work...

IIRC you removed all the "desirable" features your car originally had. You preferred the fender mounted antenna, and you replaced the GF hood with the flat one (with lines?). Do you still have these items, and on request will you restore your car to its stock configuration? Still, my other point still stands, the general public (because that'll be the dude buying the car) will have a better feeling dealing with a DMC franchise than you. And they'll pay extra for that feeling, be it misplaced or not.

[Jonathan]

I can see how the DeLorean community could value many of the things you've listed in terms of originality. Mostly that is because once you're already here, you're educated on it. What I see out and about is that people generally aren't educated on much in life and definitely not something as specific as DeLoreans. If we see so much being babbled on about with nuclear waste dumps (in my area anyway), clean energy, climate change, vaccinations, or any other of a pile of different subjects discussed daily, the theme is that people generally know very little about these subjects. Whether you go buy a new plasma TV or a certain style of brake pads for your car, most people have no clue on a wide range of things they do or buy everyday. It definitely wouldn't surprise me to see that your average new owner of a DeLorean really has no idea what they are buying or getting into either. I would have put myself in that camp when I bought my car, that's for sure. So to me, uneducated buyer = more comfort buying from recognized name = buyer goes with DMCX and not Joe on eBay.

EDIT: Contradicted/confused myself... as an uneducated buyer, I should have said they wouldn't see value in certain features or originality, as opposed to equating it to buying DMCX versus eBay. An uneducated buyer may still buy from eBay, but the price may need to be lower to justify not being a known name, and adding originality or special features probably won't register. Or something like that... lol.

[Dracula]

IIRC you removed all the "desirable" features your car originally had. You preferred the fender mounted antenna, and you replaced the GF hood with the flat one (with lines?). Do you still have these items, and on request will you restore your car to its stock configuration? Still, my other point still stands, the general public (because that'll be the dude buying the car) will have a better feeling dealing with a DMC franchise than you. And they'll pay extra for that feeling, be it misplaced or not.

No, I didn't. The gas flap hood is INCLUDED with the car for sale as an option instead of the grooved hood. I never found anyone actually willing to swap fenders, so I don't have one on the fender.

The interior was gone when I got my car, so that's stuck as gray. Otherwise, that's the biggest noteworthy change from stock and the only thing that's hard to undo.

[thirdmanj]

I can see how the DeLorean community could value many of the things you've listed in terms of originality. Mostly that is because once you're already here, you're educated on it. What I see out and about is that people generally aren't educated on much in life and definitely not something as specific as DeLoreans. If we see so much being babbled on about with nuclear waste dumps (in my area anyway), clean energy, climate change, vaccinations, or any other of a pile of different subjects discussed daily, the theme is that people generally know very little about these subjects. Whether you go buy a new plasma TV or a certain style of brake pads for your car, most people have no clue on a wide range of things they do or buy everyday. It definitely wouldn't surprise me to see that your average new owner of a DeLorean really has no idea what they are buying or getting into either. I would have put myself in that camp when I bought my car, that's for sure. So to me, uneducated buyer = more comfort buying from recognized name = buyer goes with DMCX and not Joe on eBay.

EDIT: Contradicted/confused myself... as an uneducated buyer, I should have said they wouldn't see value in certain features or originality, as opposed to equating it to buying DMCX versus eBay. An uneducated buyer may still buy from eBay, but the price may need to be lower to justify not being a known name, and adding originality or special features probably won't register. Or something like that... lol.

I'll admit that I wasn't acquainted with the three different hood styles when I purchased 1258. However, being "in" the community, and knowing these things are valued, why not err on the cautious side and keep these desired items so as to possibly attract a more educated buyer. Besides, a more educated would probably have more confidence to purchase from a private seller anyway.

[Dracula]

I did save every single part I took off of the car that was relevant to originality and re-usable. Some things, like the gas shocks and springs, were still OK, but had no practical reason to keep.

[dmcjohn]

If you're looking for feedback, the picture you have posted of the interior doesn't help. The binnacle looks blue, mismatched to the dash and kneepads, the seats look discoloured, looks like the interior could do with a refresh...

Was the frame ever taken out of your car and refurbished, or is it original?

I'd think about dying your interior vinyl parts to match if I was you, could be what the car needs to attract a premium price like $30k.

Sorry if this offends you, not my intention.

Regards,
John

[Michael]

I have to agree, but I will be blunt... those pics are nothing short of terrible. The engine bay pic alone is enough to send anyone with more than 20k to spend running. I know you have done a lot to this car, I know that's a new Stage II...but it doesn't look like it's new. It looks like it is 30 years old and never seen a cleaning towel. The cockeyed mailbox letters on the throttle shield don't help and that shiny new stainless label kit pretty much amplifies how dirty that engine bay is.

The rear shot shows a fascia that is warped in more than a few places, and it's starting to sag. The front fascia has eyebrows, the underneath frame pic shows gray overspray on the underbody(a red flag to those in the know)....it's also missing the TA shields. The rear frame/transmission pic...no words needed. Those window controls will throw off anyone who doesn't know any better. I know you were making it better, but it looks like a hack fix to an un-informed potential buyer.

You stated this car has a complete restoration, those engine bay and frame pics do not help your story. You gave a huge list of things replaced and while this may be good to some, others will think "Damn, that thing needed a lot,...what else will break when I buy it?" Had you re-worded the ad to say these things were replaced in one or 2 lump sums, it might be better taken than someone assuming you had to replace this or that every other week.


Your wording in the ad was short and sweet...this does not sell a 30k car. Wording and pics are all you have, which makes them everything. A well worded ad and at least 18-25 pictures(good pictures) are a must when selling a 30 year old car for 30k.

[thirdmanj]

I have to agree, but I will be blunt... those pics are nothing short of terrible. The engine bay pic alone is enough to send anyone with more than 20k to spend running. I know you have done a lot to this car, I know that's a new Stage II...but it doesn't look like it's new. It looks like it is 30 years old and never seen a cleaning towel. The cockeyed mailbox letters on the throttle shield don't help and that shiny new stainless label kit pretty much amplifies how dirty that engine bay is.

The rear shot shows a fascia that is warped in more than a few places, and it's starting to sag. The front fascia has eyebrows, the underneath frame pic shows gray overspray on the underbody(a red flag to those in the know)....it's also missing the TA shields. The rear frame/transmission pic...no words needed. Those window controls will throw off anyone who doesn't know any better. I know you were making it better, but it looks like a hack fix to an un-informed potential buyer.

You stated this car has a complete restoration, those engine bay and frame pics do not help your story. You gave a huge list of things replaced and while this may be good to some, others will think "Damn, that thing needed a lot,...what else will break when I buy it?" Had you re-worded the ad to say these things were replaced in one or 2 lump sums, it might be better taken than someone assuming you had to replace this or that every other week.


Your wording in the ad was short and sweet...this does not sell a 30k car. Wording and pics are all you have, which makes them everything. A well worded ad and at least 18-25 pictures(good pictures) are a must when selling a 30 year old car for 30k.

^This^
And there's still that whole pvt seller thing. You're more likely to sell if you do a consignment deal with one of the franchises if you can. You may lose a little, but IMHO it's the best option.

[NightFlyer]

If early VIN features (gas flap hood, dark grey wheels and center caps, center console clock, hand made door striker pin guides, Ducellier alternator, screws in the door sill plates, metal ash tray cover, etc), originality (original relays, perfect condition NCTs, Dunmurry installed door struts, original headlights, TA dust shields present, fully functional Craig audio system with original speakers, etc), cosmetics (perfect 100% original condition black interior with original floor mats, perfect condition original paint fascias, easily made perfect stainless, etc), and functionality (everything on my car is 100% fully functional with the exception of the A/C, which will be functional again soon) compose the value of our cars, then my car, with the documented QAC history that it has, and when compared to what DMC franchisees sell their cars for, should be worth $60,000-$80,000 :biggrin:

In all honesty, I've yet to see another DeLorean as original and in as good as condition as #1798. She spent 20 years of her life in a temp/humidity controlled carcoon by the original owner.

Sorry folks, but she's not for sale at any price :wink:

[TheSmokingMan]

A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. What you "think" it's worth is irrelevant.

[DeLorean03]

A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. What you "think" it's worth is irrelevant.

+1000 - well said.

That is EXACTLY what is happening in the pinball world - don't even get me started there.

[dmcjohn]

If they sell this one at $32,500, the buyer is an idiot.

http://delorean.com/delorean/1441/#!prettyPhoto

My car, for $2,500 less, has 11,000 fewer miles and a complete service history that exceeds my asking price.



Just noticed a weird issue on that car linked above - looks like the lower engine cradle plate was removed (presumably for chassis repairs), and when it was welded back in place, it was put back on upside down.

21663

The 4 ribs in the plate should be facing down not up, and the indentation to allow full movement of the lower link should also have been protruding downwards. Seems like the fix to compensate and allow the lower link to have it's full range of movement was to then cut out that piece only, flip it upside down and reweld. Very strange repair - the whole plate should have been removed and put back the right way, and would have nearly been less work!

[NightFlyer]

I can see how the DeLorean community could value many of the things you've listed in terms of originality. Mostly that is because once you're already here, you're educated on it. What I see out and about is that people generally aren't educated on much in life and definitely not something as specific as DeLoreans. If we see so much being babbled on about with nuclear waste dumps (in my area anyway), clean energy, climate change, vaccinations, or any other of a pile of different subjects discussed daily, the theme is that people generally know very little about these subjects. Whether you go buy a new plasma TV or a certain style of brake pads for your car, most people have no clue on a wide range of things they do or buy everyday. It definitely wouldn't surprise me to see that your average new owner of a DeLorean really has no idea what they are buying or getting into either. I would have put myself in that camp when I bought my car, that's for sure. So to me, uneducated buyer = more comfort buying from recognized name = buyer goes with DMCX and not Joe on eBay.

EDIT: Contradicted/confused myself... as an uneducated buyer, I should have said they wouldn't see value in certain features or originality, as opposed to equating it to buying DMCX versus eBay. An uneducated buyer may still buy from eBay, but the price may need to be lower to justify not being a known name, and adding originality or special features probably won't register. Or something like that... lol.

WOW - I honestly don't know where to start here.

As a shopper/buyer dropping a relatively large chunk of hard earned money on something (I qualify this as anything over $20), I first set out to learn everything I possibly can about what it is that I'm buying, whether that be a DeLorean, new TV, certain style of brake pads, etc. I also make every attempt possible to find a 'Made in USA' option whenever shopping for anything - I believe this to be very important (probably because I was raised in an American household by American parents who worked for American manufacturers and I actually understand a good deal about global economies of scale). In the past, this may have been a somewhat difficult, burdensome, or even impossible task to comprehensively accomplish, as research and comparison resources were relatively limited and those available were often biased.

Fast forward to the internet age. 85% of public libraries/facilities in the US have offered internet access since the mid-late '90's. Currently, nearly 55% of the US population has internet access via portable handheld devices, and internet access enjoys a total household penetration approaching 88%. And as far as research of goods/services goes, the internet has changed the game drastically. Now, if you don't research something prior to purchasing, it's simply out of sheer laziness, ignorance, indifference, or stupidity as it may be. While not everyone may be as astute of a consumer as I, there's no excuse fathomable in the world for not doing your homework on a large item purchase for something like a car - especially a unique niche collectible vehicle such as the DeLorean is.

If people are running out and buying DeLorean's blindly, the only reason I can think of for doing so is that the money they're spending on it was NOT hard earned.

If I go any further into this rant, I'm afraid that it'll qualify as a 'political' statement and I'll again be targeted by the mods, so I'll end it here, as hopefully everyone reading it gets the point.

So, there's my two cents, for whatever it's worth :)

[pezzonovante88]

Just noticed a weird issue on that car linked above - looks like the lower engine cradle plate was removed (presumably for chassis repairs), and when it was welded back in place, it was put back on upside down.

21663

The 4 ribs in the plate should be facing down not up, and the indentation to allow full movement of the lower link should also have been protruding downwards. Seems like the fix to compensate and allow the lower link to have it's full range of movement was to then cut out that piece only, flip it upside down and reweld. Very strange repair - the whole plate should have been removed and put back the right way, and would have nearly been less work!

That's true. On another note, that car appears to have a black headliner - kinda cool.

[Jack]

The real problem are the rear tires have RWL, but were put on backwards :(

[Mark D]

The 4 ribs in the plate should be facing down not up, and the indentation to allow full movement of the lower link should also have been protruding downwards. Seems like the fix to compensate and allow the lower link to have it's full range of movement was to then cut out that piece only, flip it upside down and reweld. Very strange repair - the whole plate should have been removed and put back the right way, and would have nearly been less work!

I agree that the ribs should be facing down, not up.

But I think a more likely scenario than you described was they cut out the plate in such a way that left the area around the lower links intact. Then they welded the section of plate back in upside down.

[DMCMW Dave]

The real problem are the rear tires have RWL, but were put on backwards :(

Very common when you can't find matching fronts. Everyone out there with Coopers on it is like this.

[NightFlyer]

Very common when you can't find matching fronts. Everyone out there with Coopers on it is like this.

Unless they're the Cooper CS4 Tourings, which are only available with a BSW :thumbup2:

[dhaney]

The real problem are the rear tires have RWL, but were put on backwards :(

I run the RWL inside on all my cars... RWL really dates a car!

Dan

[Dangermouse]

I run the RWL inside on all my cars... RWL really dates a car!

Dan

+1

[Michael]

I run the RWL inside on all my cars... RWL really dates a car!

Dan

Yeah, we certainly wouldn't want to date a DeLorean

[refugeefromcalif]

I run the RWL inside on all my cars... RWL really dates a car!

Dan


Yeah, we certainly wouldn't want to date a DeLorean

I think the Last thing I'd worry about is how a DeLorean dates...
I'm old enough to remember when some cars had white side wall tires.

I think a D looks Good with RWL tires. ;)

George

[Dracula]

How's this for an improved listing?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1981-DeLorean-5-Speed-Gray-Interior-Stage-II-/161097893445?_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&forcev4exp=true#ht_1026wt_1165

[Dangermouse]

I think that's a great listing Chad. Much better than 90% of the others out there.

(A couple of frame pictures would be useful to emphasize the overall condition of the car if you are looking for top dollar)

[Silverbullet]

How's this for an improved listing?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1981-DeLorean-5-Speed-Gray-Interior-Stage-II-/161097893445?_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&forcev4exp=true#ht_1026wt_1165

Ok, I think you have a great car to sell, at a price that anyone would be lucky to end up with a car in that shape for the money you want... Maybe a couple of things would help...
If you really want to sell the car... take the DMCTODAY.com off... it looks tacky and makes the car more of a billboard, it would look way better plain. Also a few shots of under the car would make people feel better.

Best of luck with the sale... If I did not have mine, yours would be mine...

Craig

[Kane]

Wait, you're telling me that you're going to be LOSING money on the sale of a DeLorean?!?!?!? :what_the:

[AirmanPika]

I think deloreans are especially prone to location and emotional values vs proper appraisal values due to its history. Some go "oh that's the ferrari from bttf cool", others think of it as a cool car and some know full well what they are looking at. You also need a population that can afford it. Ebay can help get past this but the uneducated go "oh well that other one was only $12k why is this $30k?" You have to sell it to them like a dealer would at those high prices.

[rothsean]

I think deloreans are especially prone to location and emotional values vs proper appraisal values due to its history. Some go "oh that's the ferrari from bttf cool", others think of it as a cool car and some know full well what they are looking at. You also need a population that can afford it. Ebay can help get past this but the uneducated go "oh well that other one was only $12k why is this $30k?" You have to sell it to them like a dealer would at those high prices.



We are still a good 10-20 years until the DeLorean values start to increase. The average person that loves the car is 33-50 years old and that high end is pushing it. Cars seem to peak when the buyers that want them are averaging 60 years old. Once the DeLorean lovers hit the age where they have money and can finally afford a non-essential car sitting in the garage, at that point the values will increase.

We need all of those BTTF buffs to hit the age 60 mark and we will be in a seller's market for the D.

[louielouie2000]

Wait, you're telling me that you're going to be LOSING money on the sale of a DeLorean?!?!?!? :what_the:

I lost money when I sold my second DeLorean ($2,500), and I'm not even counting the money I invested into it (probably another $2,500). I would say a majority of owners I know who have sold their DeLoreans have reported taking losses as well. DeLoreans definitely have a rabid cult following, but that hasn't equated to them being hot collectibles. Honestly, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, though. These cars are still within reach of most any enthusiast who sets their mind to owning one. Hence the amount of owners in our community in their teens, 20s, and 30s.

DeLorean values may not always be so depressed, though. Until the past 10 years or so, you could pick up a Dino for about the same price you could a DeLorean. People thought they were bastard automobiles, underpowered & underengineered; people refused to actually classify them as Ferraris. Now those cars are commanding prices well over $200,000, and are one of the hotter classic Ferraris in terms of enthusiasm. Obviously, the DeLorean has no such Ferrari heritage. I doubt it will ever attain six figure prices. But the emergence of the Dino show that cars which were once relegated to underdog statuses can in fact come into their own.

[Kane]

It was a joke. It's just the idea that OP tries to sell his car and can't so he then blames the entire community and the vendors for his lack of buyer interest is absurd to me. He thinks he is entitled to a certain price because of what improvements he made to it. That's not how the market works. This thread has listed several things he could do differently to get interest (a better eBay ad, better pictures, removing that ridiculous URL decal in the window). But instead of recognizing those things as ways to be better at selling his car, he goes straight to blaming the entire community.

I was just trying to subtly point out that of course you are losing money on a DeLorean sale. Everyone does. That's why flipping DeLoreans is not quite a recommended investment strategy.

[louielouie2000]

It was a joke. It's just the idea that OP tries to sell his car and can't so he then blames the entire community and the vendors for his lack of buyer interest is absurd to me. He thinks he is entitled to a certain price because of what improvements he made to it. That's not how the market works. This thread has listed several things he could do differently to get interest (a better eBay ad, better pictures, removing that ridiculous URL decal in the window). But instead of recognizing those things as ways to be better at selling his car, he goes straight to blaming the entire community.

I was just trying to subtly point out that of course you are losing money on a DeLorean sale. Everyone does. That's why flipping DeLoreans is not quite a recommended investment strategy.

Ahh, well the OP is being ridiculous, and he's been in the community long enough to know it. His car is a hot mess in so many ways- it's filthy inside, out, and underneath. The whole vehicle looks very tired, used, and worn out. It's not VIN correct in any way- and yes, that actually matters to buyers. Some of the "upgrades" to the car come across as band-aid afterthoughts, too. The OP is simply trying to bully people into paying an absurd price for his car- not a winning tactic.

Generally the only DeLoreans that change hands for more than $25k or so are through the vendors. That's because buyers feel they have a certain peace of mind buying the car through a vendor- be that a correct assumption or not. Second hand New Build/Remanufactured cars aren't changing hands for more than $25k or so either if they aren't sold by a vendor. The reality is, if you're an owner trying to sell your car, there is a ceiling for what buyers are willing to pay. If you don't like it, lower the price of your car to match it's actual value, or pull it off the market.

[silverhair01]

Just a little different perspective from a non-owner here. If I were going to buy a delorean, or any classic/older car for that matter, I'd be looking for something I can improve upon and add my own personal touches. If I can get a $20k - $25k car that has a few minor issues but is relatively original and in good working order, I'd probably purchase it over the $30k car that's had a bit of tinkering, even if its beneficial in the PO's eyes. When you get an older car, it's just something you expect. Its like people trying to sell their old chevelle's that they've done a complete restore and overhaul on for $40k or more. They have automatically decreased their market because most people who want to own/purchase a classic car, aren't getting it because they want a perfect car out the gate. They are getting it because they want something to make their own. True, some people do buy them, but those are the people with plenty of money to throw at a car on the spot and don't care about putting the work in or their own personal touches, the just want own one. Throw in the fact that the general public doesn't know much about deloreans or the maintenance required and you have a reason for the car not to sell.

not sure if any of that makes sense...but that's just how I see it.

[thirdmanj]

Just a little different perspective from a non-owner here. If I were going to buy a delorean, or any classic/older car for that matter, I'd be looking for something I can improve upon and add my own personal touches. If I can get a $20k - $25k car that has a few minor issues but is relatively original and in good working order, I'd probably purchase it over the $30k car that's had a bit of tinkering, even if its beneficial in the PO's eyes. When you get an older car, it's just something you expect. Its like people trying to sell their old chevelle's that they've done a complete restore and overhaul on for $40k or more. They have automatically decreased their market because most people who want to own/purchase a classic car, aren't getting it because they want a perfect car out the gate. They are getting it because they want something to make their own. True, some people do buy them, but those are the people with plenty of money to throw at a car on the spot and don't care about putting the work in or their own personal touches, the just want own one. Throw in the fact that the general public doesn't know much about deloreans or the maintenance required and you have a reason for the car not to sell.

not sure if any of that makes sense...but that's just how I see it.

Yeah, but there's old cars... Old 80s cars.... And then there's DeLoreans. They're really in a class by themselves.

[Dracula]

Most people wind up selling their DeLorean because they don't want to work on them anymore and one of the more common complaints from new owners is that they expect the car to run, drive, and require the same level of maintenance as a modern car.

[dhaney]

I think the Last thing I'd worry about is how a DeLorean dates...
I'm old enough to remember when some cars had white side wall tires.

I think a D looks Good with RWL tires. ;)

George
It's simply a matter of taste but the exterior of the Delorean except for the square 4 headlamps is a pretty timeless style and shape. Gull wings like scissor doors are always in style ;-). In my opinion, two personal taste additions really date a Delorean, RWL and the Wide stripe. They both scream 80's which except for the Delorean and a few others was an awful decade for automotive style.

Back on topic, the new pictures are much better Dracula but its always tough to sell a Delorean, we had an owner who sold a two owner car YESTERDAY at auction that has not had any PO molestation because he needed the cash and didn't want to deal with ebay or craigs list. He listed it here and the DML but got no bites. It brought in only $13K but was possibly worth closer to $15-18K. But as someone else said... nothing is worth more than someone is willing to pay.

Dan
Vin's 3254 and 4770

[Silverbullet]

Well, making a Delorean reliable and run great, where you trust it to drive places takes money... We all know that. You CAN buy one for $15,000 that runs... but it will normally need a lot of work to be a great car... Vendors can get $50,000 + for cars, and they STILL have problems. This car has had a lot of money spent on it, and Mid-West DMC has done most of the work... To the tune of $40,000 OVER the price of the car... I am sure it is a dependable car you can drive anywhere.

I feel pretty lucky that my car was one of Don's last re-births before he left DMC CA. I got mine almost totaly re-done, and it did cost a lot, but I think I got a great deal. The car runs great, I did stage 1 exhaust, so it sounds great, and my favorite thing is the Wings Aloft Doors, push the button, and the door opens, it makes the car more fun.

So, $30,000 for his car is not crazy...I spent more, But I did get a great car.

Craig

[DMCMW Dave]

---But as someone else said... nothing is worth more than someone is willing to pay.

....at a given moment in time and in a certain location.

One of the best deals I ever saw done was a guy who bought a super nice, low mile, running and driving car, very low price, but the car was in the middle of Oklahoma (or Nebraska, I don't recall for sure) with a poorly written eBay ad, and absolutely nobody would look at it. At the time I thought he probably paid $10,000 under market value for it once I saw the car.

OTOH we've seen quite a few overpriced, overdescribed cars sell to overenthusiastic / under-researched buyers.

[Mark D]

My friend just bought this car this weekend for substantially less than the asking price. I'll leave it up to him to fill you guys in on the details but he paid less than 10k.

For a running, driving, reasonably well maintained car I thought he got a killer deal. There seem to be some good DeLoreans changing hands lately at low prices.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?8023-DeLorean-For-Sale-Freemont-MI-05754&p=118302&viewfull=1#post118302

[fnzen]

Speaking as a former owner who just recently sold his DeLorean..

DMC has showrooms and overhead to meet imo hence the high prices realize that if you google cars for sell the Dealers usually pop up first

the fact that you can buy from a "Dealer" adds some comfort to a potential buyer and hence the premium price paid its , heck I bought mine nonrunning from the Dealer instead of a private

yes I saw cars sold at the local Dealer for more than mine with alot less into it and I thought about consignment with a dealer

never never never think that the money put in equals the money out .........I definately put alot more in the car than what I sold it for

It did take a year to sell it at the price that I wanted, although I really only advertised here on the forum and occasionally on Craigs List

By the way did I mention that the economy is BAD? ALL "collectible" cars are taking a severe beating in this economy