Centerforce Performance Clutch

[sdg3205]

There is an ad in this months Hemmings Sport and Exotic for DeLorean specific dual friction single disc clutches.

Just FYI.

I appreciate Hemmings ongoing effort to keep our cars as newsworthy as possible.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/02/hy3eqary.jpg

[pezzonovante88]

Cool. I agree, Hemmings does seem to be taking the car seriously.

[Domi]

Thanks for sharing :thumbup2:

[ccurzio]

I'm so glad they have the 1980 model covered. You can't find ANYTHING else for that year DeLorean.

[Delorean Industries]

I'm so glad they have the 1980 model covered. You can't find ANYTHING else for that year DeLorean.

Ironic after we literally fought with them for three months in 2012 for turbo application clutches. Figures....

[SS Spoiler]

I got a centerforce clutch from Don Steger fifteen years ago. I thought they were supposed to have weights clipped
between each finger, that added more pressure as it spun. It worked well, no problems.

[Ron]

Isn't this a lot like killing an ant with an A-Bomb for most Ds? ...Maybe I should ask how often the more "aggressive" manual owners have to buy a clutch kit?

[sdg3205]

I'm so glad they have the 1980 model covered. You can't find ANYTHING else for that year DeLorean.

I've spoken with David La Chance at hemmings quite a few times. He's a really great gentleman who gives every single car out there a fair and balanced review. Their articles are often written after owners lend them a car for several days.

They've certainly been fair and balanced, and even surprisingly positive with DeLoreans in the past 3 years I've been a subscriber.

1980 DeLorean? I think we can let this one slide.

[BABIS]

is it possible to have some datas about the strength of the pressure plate? just to compare it to what we already have available..

[thirdmanj]

Isn't this a lot like killing an ant with an A-Bomb for most Ds? ...Maybe I should ask how often the more "aggressive" manual owners have to buy a clutch kit?

I bet NichR will be seriously looking into this!

(Ahem- Ron, best not be bringing up "A-bombs...you know...) ;)

[David T]

I bet NichR will be seriously looking into this!

(Ahem- Ron, best not be bringing up "A-bombs...you know...) ;)

The Centerforce pressure plate is supposed to have counterweights so it has reduced pedal pressure but as the RPM's increase, centrifugal force on the counterweights increase the clamping pressure.
David Teitelbaum

[DMC5180]

I have the Standard Centerforce clutch on my car. (supposedly 30% more clamping pressure than Stock) I purchased it From ROB GRADY back in 96.

My clutch has the Finger Weights and is essentially nothing more than a stock VALEO clutch with the added weights a pretty GOLD paint job and Centerforce sticker on it (removed) in a Centerforce box.

This photo was taken in 2010 with about 40K on it. I did NOT clean or wipe it down prior to the photo. It was the that clean when transmission was removed for other internal work.

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I recall going to my local performance auto parts store back then and looking through there Centerforce Applications book, Back then they had a DUAL FRICTION HIGH PERFORMANCE clutch option. I remember thinking to myself, WOW that seems like a bit of overkill and I wondered to myself how many had every been sold.

[DMCMW Dave]

The Centerforce pressure plate is supposed to have counterweights so it has reduced pedal pressure but as the RPM's increase, centrifugal force on the counterweights increase the clamping pressure.
David Teitelbaum

Centerforce dropped the center-weights when Valeo redesigned the pressure plate maybe 10 years ago. The weights would not fit any more. For a while a Centerforce was a dead stock Valeo clutch painted gold. I guess they finally found something to charge an extra couple hundred bucks for.

I've driven a bunch of DeLoreans (obviously) and my personal car has a circa 1999 Centerforce Clutch in it (WITH the weights). I can't tell any difference at all between that one and a stock one, other than sometimes it seems to be a bit noisy (clunks) on engagement. No feel differences, and certainly no grip difference. I pulled one out of a car where the spring/weight assembly had sort of exploded parts all over the inside of the bellhousing, so I'm not convinced it was a particularly good idea even at the time.

As for the current design, I'm not sure I want a puck-style clutch in a street car, they tend to be grabby or, in this case, just wear out the other side faster. I really don't understand the "dual friction" BS - one side of the disc is against the steel flywheel, the other is against the steel pressure plate, and both are pressed by the same spring force. Explain to me, if the puck side grabs so much better, why doesn't the normal side just slip more? I have never seen a DeLorean with a clutch that slipped due to excess power, and any that were slippy were just plain worn out.

[tgraham]

I put ~40k miles on a Centerforce clutch with the weights, then overhauled/upgraded my engine and gearbox and replaced it with the stock kit. I can't tell one bit of difference between the two either. And I'm far more aggressive with the new/stock one.

Travis

[LordFly]

I have never seen a DeLorean with a clutch that slipped due to excess power, and any that were slippy were just plain worn out.

My car must just make too much power! :driving1: :hihi2:

[elfking]

Well regardless if the clutch is needed for everyone out there at least the option is there! I have used centerforce clutches for my off road toys as well as a few of my street / track cars that had higher hp ( 3-400 ) or even higher torque ratings for the off road / track applications.

Without the option there wasn't really other performance clutches available for the D is there ?

[SS Spoiler]

I remember reading in Hot Rod magazine twenty some odd years ago, about a hyd slave clutch cylinder that replaced the throwout bearing. I believe the company name was Fox or Coyote? The idea was a more positive force could be applied, with one inch of throw. This may have been a possible fix for grinding shifts, before it was found that the line was the problem. Did this ever make it to market?


Paul Cerny #2691
Kalispell, MT

[Ron]

I bet NichR will be seriously looking into this!

(Ahem- Ron, best not be bringing up "A-bombs...you know...) ;)lol..you got me.
Let me rephrase:
21894

[Delorean Industries]

lol..you got me.
Let me rephrase:
21894

Now we are talking! I love over kill.

[DMCMW Dave]

I remember reading in Hot Rod magazine twenty some odd years ago, about a hyd slave clutch cylinder that replaced the throwout bearing. I believe the company name was Fox or Coyote? The idea was a more positive force could be applied, with one inch of throw.

That is the common design GM vehicles (and I'm sure many others) now. The main drawback to that design is that a clutch hydraulic failure means you drop the trans for repair. I don't see how a throwout (release) bearing can have any influence on clamping force, although I suppose it would allow the designer to use stronger springs in the assembly and adjust the hydraulic leverage to compensate.

[DMCMW Dave]

Without the option there wasn't really other performance clutches available for the D is there ?

I was debating how a stock pressure plate repainted gold, and a stock disc with the facing changed on one side, could be considered "performance". But I'm sure people will buy it.

[elfking]

I was debating how a stock pressure plate repainted gold, and a stock disc with the facing changed on one side, could be considered "performance". But I'm sure people will buy it.

Well what I was getting at is that IF there is a performance increase as some of their clutches tend to have... Either with weights , stronger material or what have you. Yes in this case there may not be as much of a difference... I haven't needed to pull out my clutch yet to know what's in there style wise but if your saying that these clutches are identical and just repainted then of course it's a waste of money.

[DCUK Martin]

Two uprated OEM clutches are available for the 2.5 turbo cars (alpine GTA and 25 turbo) and 3.0 turbo cars (alpine A610 and Safrane Biturbo). Either fits the DeLorean. I wouldn't buy a centreforce with these options available.

[Rich W]

Two uprated OEM clutches are available for the 2.5 turbo cars (alpine GTA and 25 turbo) and 3.0 turbo cars (alpine A610 and Safrane Biturbo). Either fits the DeLorean. I wouldn't buy a centreforce with these options available.

Hi Martin,

Is the Pressure Plate also uprated with those turbo car setups or is it just the Clutch Disc that is uprated?

On the uprated Clutch Disc, how is it uprated? (different friction material? puck-style friction material layout on the disc?)

I have not "used up" my OEM Valeo Clutch Disc on my Grand National powered DeLorean (yet), but I think my car can benefit
from an uprated Clutch system, when I need to do a replacement. The 3.8L Turbo has the potential of putting out lots of HP.

Thanks,
Rich W.

[DCUK Martin]

Hi Rich,

In the 2.5 turbo clutch, there are uprated springs in both the pressure plate and the drive plate (identifiable by pink & blue springs). This has a lighter pedal than the original DeLorean clutch (but not as light as the modern Valeo clutch for NA engines).

21914

The 3.0 turbo clutch uses the same Valeo drive plate but has a Matra-made uprated pressure plate whose fingers are a weird shape. Apologies I don't have a photo of that. Its pedal is about as stiff as a stock original DeLorean clutch

[BABIS]

Hi Rich,


The 3.0 turbo clutch uses the same Valeo drive plate but has a Matra-made uprated pressure plate whose fingers are a weird shape. Apologies I don't have a photo of that. Its pedal is about as stiff as a stock original DeLorean clutch

Martin,

here it is the picture of the A610 clutch ;)

21915

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2297/0zk4.jpg

[jawn101]

Hi Rich,

In the 2.5 turbo clutch, there are uprated springs in both the pressure plate and the drive plate (identifiable by pink & blue springs). This has a lighter pedal than the original DeLorean clutch (but not as light as the modern Valeo clutch for NA engines).

21914

The 3.0 turbo clutch uses the same Valeo drive plate but has a Matra-made uprated pressure plate whose fingers are a weird shape. Apologies I don't have a photo of that. Its pedal is about as stiff as a stock original DeLorean clutch

That's the same clutch I have. It does feel much nicer than the one I removed, but after all I did remove the old one because it was due for replacement :)

[DMCMW Dave]

... but after all I did remove the old one because it was due for replacement :)

Just about anything would feel better than a 30-year-old clutch with a tired/rusty pressure plate!

The OEM redesign about 8 years ago made a big difference in clutch feel, it is somewhat lighter that the original one was.

[20098]

In my 3.0 single turbo that Josh at DPI is building for me, I will be using the A610 clutch. I'll report on it when it is done and in my hands...

[pezzonovante88]

In my 3.0 single turbo that Josh at DPI is building for me, I will be using the A610 clutch. I'll report on it when it is done and in my hands...

Ha, I was looking at your car at DPI.

[82DMC12]

Thread from the dead. Just wanted to post here that I inquired about the Centerforce clutch to Centerforce customer service this week and I was informed it's no longer available due to poor demand. This thread is the first hit that comes up on google when searching "DeLorean Centerforce Clutch" so I thought I'd post this little update to it.

[DCUK Martin]

Thread from the dead. Just wanted to post here that I inquired about the Centerforce clutch to Centerforce customer service this week and I was informed it's no longer available due to poor demand. This thread is the first hit that comes up on google when searching "DeLorean Centerforce Clutch" so I thought I'd post this little update to it.

For updated clutches, talk to Lee at Renault Alpine Tuning Services (RATS)

https://g.co/kgs/1ptKno

[Josh]

While trying to look for uprated PRV clutch offerings I came up with many dead ends.

This centerforce clutch is basically just the stock one with some marketing B-S.

The 2.5 turbo has a slightly heavier pressure plate but nothing substantial. Maybe will fold 250ft-lbs.

The 3.0 turbo can hold some reasonable power but they are only made in small batches and are extremely expensive.

You can cheat some extra clamping force out of the stock Valeo clutch by upping the step to 0.030" or even 0.040" if you are so daring and relining your clutch disc with kevlar or other materials with more bite.

I initially went the valeo + kevlar route and burnt up a clutch very quickly at 300ft-lbs. I was not aware on increasing the step at the time, maybe it would have faired better.

I am now running an uprated Nissan 350z clutch and modified clutch fork. I use this on my LS swap applications but could be adapted back to a PRV if someone was so inclined. This setup was inspired by Ed of SEO motorsports, and can hold +350ft-lbs reliably.
It would require the stock flywheel to be resurfaced and redrilled.

[DCUK Martin]

While trying to look for uprated PRV clutch offerings I came up with many dead ends.

This centerforce clutch is basically just the stock one with some marketing B-S.

The 2.5 turbo has a slightly heavier pressure plate but nothing substantial. Maybe will fold 250ft-lbs.

The 3.0 turbo can hold some reasonable power but they are only made in small batches and are extremely expensive.

You can cheat some extra clamping force out of the stock Valeo clutch by upping the step to 0.030" or even 0.040" if you are so daring and relining your clutch disc with kevlar or other materials with more bite.

I initially went the valeo + kevlar route and burnt up a clutch very quickly at 300ft-lbs. I was not aware on increasing the step at the time, maybe it would have faired better.

I am now running an uprated Nissan 350z clutch and modified clutch fork. I use this on my LS swap applications but could be adapted back to a PRV if someone was so inclined. This setup was inspired by Ed of SEO motorsports, and can hold +350ft-lbs reliably.
It would require the stock flywheel to be resurfaced and redrilled.

Afaik renault stopped doing the A610 clutch when they sold on all the classic Alpine parts. Lee has reproduced an equivalent and takes his heavily modified GTA turbo racing, so they get good testing ;)

[Bitsyncmaster]

This centerforce clutch is basically just the stock one with some marketing B-S.

+1

There is no way with the low angles that a few grams of weights are going to help anything.

[David T]

Just a wild idea but maybe you could use the clutch out of a Lotus. Probably have to drill the flywheel but it should handle the power.

[Bob635]

I tried to install a center force clutch back in the late 80s.. It did not fit. They may have fixed the fit problem.

Bob

[82DMC12]

I tried to install a center force clutch back in the late 80s.. It did not fit. They may have fixed the fit problem.

Bob

Not sure what the issue would have been back then, but I put one in around 2003 and it worked great. Still works great, actually.

[Henrik]

... uprated Nissan 350z clutch and modified clutch fork... This setup was inspired by Ed of SEO motorsports, and can hold +350ft-lbs reliably.

That's what Ed did on my engine swap and now 5 years later it is still rock solid

[Nicholas R]

I ran what John Hervey called his "high performance pressure plate" for many years. To be honest, I dont know what exactly it was but I think it was the 2.5 Turbo clutch Josh mentioned above. I ran it with a re-lined kevlar disc (also from John) for 6 years. During this time I also had about a .050" step in my flywheel in an effort to increase the holding force. This setup (pre-install) is shown below.

https://i.imgur.com/oFXRAmr.jpg

I have found no viable Lotus options. At least nothing that is worth the effort. Aside from the Esprit V8, none of the other cars had a level of performance that I believe would be worth the effort. The V8 used a dual friction plate clutch and utilized a completely different bellhousing in order to fit it. This is all not to mention the fact that no Lotuses had PRVs so the flywheel is different, meaning the pressure plates will be different. There might be a lotus disc out there that might be workable, but personally I see the pressure plate as the harder item to source.

The truth is, unless you're willing to re-drill your flywheel or machine a new one, there are very few options. In 2018, after a significant amount of brainstorming with Josh, I began running a new design flywheel that I put two different bolt patterns on. One bolt pattern fits an AP Racing pressure plate, the other pattern fits the 350z plate. In the end I decided to run the 350z plate. Among a lot of the engine swap folks, the 350z is preferred because it is compact and has huge power density in terms of holding force options. Below is the Nissan pressure plate compared to a stock valeo pressure plate (this stock plate is not the same as the one shown above).

https://i.imgur.com/n5XkHy9.jpg

Before he passed, I purchased this segmented kevlar disc from John Hervey. I wish I knew what it was from but it has zero markings of any kind on it. I'm not yet running it, but the next time I pull my transmission, this will go in. If anyone has any idea as to where he may have sourced this, I'm very interested because I have come up with nothing.

https://i.imgur.com/pcf6a72.jpg

[Josh]

Thanks for the detailed run-down with pictures Nick. I never knew you were running such a tall step! That is 150% higher than stock. Im still amazed at how much power your original setup held.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I ran a bunch of testing thinking my old clutch was causing a random problem. I bought a gauge which measured pressure on the pressure plate when I compressed it on my 20 ton press. i posted results somewhere on this site. I was surprised at how little force was required to release the pressure plate contact. I think that gauge was to 5000 lbs rated but you really need to much less to get really accurate numbers.

If any of you are interested, I would sell you that gauge for less than I paid for it. I also turned a block to use it in my press.

[Josh]

I ran a bunch of testing thinking my old clutch was causing a random problem. I bought a gauge which measured pressure on the pressure plate when I compressed it on my 20 ton press. i posted results somewhere on this site. I was surprised at how little force was required to release the pressure plate contact. I think that gauge was to 5000 lbs rated but you really need to much less to get really accurate numbers.

If any of you are interested, I would sell you that gauge for less than I paid for it. I also turned a block to use it in my press.

You have my attention!

[Bitsyncmaster]

You have my attention!

It's just sitting on my self so make me an offer. Can't think of much else I would use it for.

Post 101 is the start of my testing.
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?16661-Clutch-replace/page11