Converting 767 to EFI with stock manifold

[jangell]

I'm finally moving forward with an EFI conversion on 767. To start, I'm only going to do fuel, but I want to do spark in the future. I'm cataloging this with as much detail as I can on my website (http://tmproductions.com/efi-conversion/) (in no small part so I can keep track of what I'm doing). This is probably going to be a slow process, as I only get a few hours each weekend to work on my car. I don't expect to finish before Christmas, but maybe things will go more quickly than I expect.

My plan is to use MegaSquirt with the stock intake manifold based on other conversions that Owen (spittybug) has helped with. I've already procured the rails, brackets and idle air motor and box from Owen (thanks!). I also have all of the fittings from JEGS (again thanks to a list from Owen).

Now I'm up to the point where I have to order the rest of the parts so that I can start installing everything. Which leads me to a few questions:

- I'm planning on getting the MS-II 3.0 board (pre-built). I noticed discussions about problems with the 3.57 board with the DeLorean, which I think was related to spark control over 3000 RPM. Since I do want to eventually do spark, I'm leaning towards the 3.0 board. While I remember reading that there was a fix for the 3.57 board, it's not clear to me if this fix is in current production hardware, so I figured I'd play it safe with the 3.0.

- I haven't quite decided where to mount the MS unit yet. I was thinking near the stock ignition controller behind the passenger seat, assuming it will fit there. I'm guessing the 8' wiring harness (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/839-megasquirt-wiring-harness-ms1-ms2-ms3-ready-p-477.html) is enough, but I'm considering the 12' one just in case (since it's easy to shorten wires but not so easy to lengthen them).

- I found posts suggesting that I remove the thermotime switch and re-tap the adaptor that goes into the water pump to 3/8" NTP so that I can use a GM temperature sensor (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/gm-closed-element-clt-iat-sensor-with-connector-p-115.html) for CLT. That seems straight-forward enough.

- Another identical GM temperature sensor would be used for the IAT. I get the impression that others have installed this by drilling a hole in the air cleaner box and screwing it into there; is that correct? I'll be using the stock mixture unit with the fuel distributor removed, and thus will use the stock air cleaner box as well.

- I have DPI's SPEC I exhaust; this supports two O2 sensors, but for the time being I'm going to get just one wideband LC-1 to try to keep the costs down a bit.

- Any suggestions for a fuel pressure regulator? I noticed that DIYAutotune sells a few (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?simple=true&keywords=regulator&x=0&y=0), and I imagine any of those will work fine.

- Any good sources for fuel injectors? It seems that 19 lbs/hr 48mm tall ones are what I should be looking for. I believe Owen said I should get the tallest ones I can find. I'll also need to get the associated electrical connectors, I imagine.

- I'm considering a TPS, possibly mounted by the gas pedal as (I think) bitsyncmaster had suggested in the past rather than figuring out how to mount it on the throttle spool. Still, it seems that people have been having good luck with just MAP, so maybe I'll just skip it.

- I'm planning on getting tach from the coil negative, but I've seen posts about using the VR output of the dizzy in the same way that the stock ignition computer does. Since I'm not doing spark yet, should I just stick with getting tach from the coil?

- I'm going to leave fuel pump control in the hands of the RPM relay, since I've upgrade to bitsyncmaster's unit already, and from what I've read there's little need to switch to MS control if I have that.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[Bitsyncmaster]

My 2005 Malibu has a throttle position sensor mounted at the gas pedal. It seems that is the only thing the gas pedal does so there is no cable to move a butterfly valve. Maybe a junkyard would have a TPS you could use.

[Spittybug]

Quite a post.. let me try and answer inline.


I'm finally moving forward with an EFI conversion on 767. To start, I'm only going to do fuel, but I want to do spark in the future. I'm cataloging this with as much detail as I can on my website (http://tmproductions.com/efi-conversion/) (in no small part so I can keep track of what I'm doing). This is probably going to be a slow process, as I only get a few hours each weekend to work on my car. I don't expect to finish before Christmas, but maybe things will go more quickly than I expect.

My plan is to use MegaSquirt with the stock intake manifold based on other conversions that Owen (spittybug) has helped with. I've already procured the rails, brackets and idle air motor and box from Owen (thanks!). I also have all of the fittings from JEGS (again thanks to a list from Owen).

Now I'm up to the point where I have to order the rest of the parts so that I can start installing everything. Which leads me to a few questions:

- I'm planning on getting the MS-II 3.0 board (pre-built). I noticed discussions about problems with the 3.57 board with the DeLorean, which I think was related to spark control over 3000 RPM. Since I do want to eventually do spark, I'm leaning towards the 3.0 board. While I remember reading that there was a fix for the 3.57 board, it's not clear to me if this fix is in current production hardware, so I figured I'd play it safe with the 3.0. It is my understanding that the fix was as simple as adding a resister in-line. If so, I'd go for the 3.57 because it is surface mount technology rather than individual components. Ask Matt at DIYauto.

- I haven't quite decided where to mount the MS unit yet. I was thinking near the stock ignition controller behind the passenger seat, assuming it will fit there. I'm guessing the 8' wiring harness (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/839-megasquirt-wiring-harness-ms1-ms2-ms3-ready-p-477.html) is enough, but I'm considering the 12' one just in case (since it's easy to shorten wires but not so easy to lengthen them). Mine is mounted behind the driver's seat. I will dig up pictures. Others have put it in this same place and it works well.

- I found posts suggesting that I remove the thermotime switch and re-tap the adaptor that goes into the water pump to 3/8" NTP so that I can use a GM temperature sensor (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/gm-closed-element-clt-iat-sensor-with-connector-p-115.html) for CLT. That seems straight-forward enough I don't remember the names of everything down in the valley, but IIRC my coolant sensor screwed right into the passenger side arm of the Y pipe under there. I did nothing to my water pump.

- Another identical GM temperature sensor would be used for the IAT. I get the impression that others have installed this by drilling a hole in the air cleaner box and screwing it into there; is that correct? I'll be using the stock mixture unit with the fuel distributor removed, and thus will use the stock air cleaner box as well. Yes, you will want this going into plastic not metal so that you don't get heatsoak and false readings.

- I have DPI's SPEC I exhaust; this supports two O2 sensors, but for the time being I'm going to get just one wideband LC-1 to try to keep the costs down a bit. Shouldn't be a problem. If one side is reading materially different than the other, you've got bigger problems since all fueling is done from only one table!

- Any suggestions for a fuel pressure regulator? I noticed that DIYAutotune sells a few (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?simple=true&keywords=regulator&x=0&y=0), and I imagine any of those will work fine. The DIY one is fine if I recall. ~$150

- Any good sources for fuel injectors? It seems that 19 lbs/hr 48mm tall ones are what I should be looking for. I believe Owen said I should get the tallest ones I can find. I'll also need to get the associated electrical connectors, I imagine. I think I used these guys: http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com/‎

- I'm considering a TPS, possibly mounted by the gas pedal as (I think) bitsyncmaster had suggested in the past rather than figuring out how to mount it on the throttle spool. Still, it seems that people have been having good luck with just MAP, so maybe I'll just skip it. It is only used for acceleration enhancement and I think the other guys have found that the MAP works just as well.

- I'm planning on getting tach from the coil negative, but I've seen posts about using the VR output of the dizzy in the same way that the stock ignition computer does. Since I'm not doing spark yet, should I just stick with getting tach from the coil. While you are fuel only you have no choice since your ECU will want the VR wire. You can tap it by the coil or by the ECU, it doesn't matter. As a rule however, don't use wire taps and other "cheapo" means of installing MS. Solder on connectors and shrink tubing over them. You'll appreciate having everything plug connected rather than hard wired.

- I'm going to leave fuel pump control in the hands of the RPM relay, since I've upgrade to bitsyncmaster's unit already, and from what I've read there's little need to switch to MS control if I have that. Nothing at all against Dave's relay, but in my opinion life is easier if you make the whole MS setup "self contained" and free from legacy systems of the car. I find it much easier to diagnose and fix if necessary. For MS, I tap two types of power from the passenger side, 12v on key and 12v continuous(x2). My new fuel pump relay is energized by the "on key" and allows the continuous 12v to then flow to fuel pump and the coil of another relay (for clean, no voltage spike 12v directly from a battery connection) for MS, O2 & injectors. Fused of course. Fuel pumps can be "noisy" and by pulling my 12v from the battery I minimize the noise on the circuit going to electronics. The wiring is easy.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[AdmiralSenn]

It sounds like you've pretty much got a good handle on things.

One of the main issues you will likely combat is electrical noise. I ended up switching to the VR configuration because I had TERRIBLE coil noise problems. Some people have had great success off the coil negative, others have had terrible results. It seems to be a 'depends on your car' thing.

The posts about tapping the thermotime switch adapter were probably from me. That's one way to do it, but as Owen has pointed out it's not necessary.

TPS will most likely give you headaches and it is definitely not required. I burned through four units before I gave up trying to figure out why they kept dying.

The GM intake air temp sensor has the same threads but I don't think it's the exact same sensor. Mine has a 'birdcage' around a sensor element vs. the coolant temperature being solid metal on the outside.

I can also confirm you will want taller injectors. I went for higher flow since I have long-term plans that will warrant it, but the injectors I ended up with are short and stubby - on my car I have to remove the rails to get to the spark plugs. Taller is better.

[jangell]

3.0 vs. 3.57:
It is my understanding that the fix was as simple as adding a resister in-line. If so, I'd go for the 3.57 because it is surface mount technology rather than individual components. Ask Matt at DIYauto.

Great -- I'll shoot him an email.

MS Mounting Location:
Mine is mounted behind the driver's seat. I will dig up pictures. Others have put it in this same place and it works well.

Right -- I meant behind the driver's seat where the ignition controller is, not the passenger seat. Got myself turned around there. Thanks.

CLT:
I don't remember the names of everything down in the valley, but IIRC my coolant sensor screwed right into the passenger side arm of the Y pipe under there. I did nothing to my water pump.

I was wondering about that. I thought I remembered people using the Y pipe, but when i searched I found references to replacing the thermo-time switch.

The parts manual (1-3-0 (http://store.delorean.com/c-270-1-3-0-water-pump.aspx)) shows two switches (25 and 26) on the Y pipe: LAMBDA sensor and "Therm Vac" (which I think is for adjusting vacuum to the distributor based on engine temp... I'll have to check the routing diagrams again). I gather I won't be needing the LAMBDA sensor once I go EFI for fuel, right? I'm guessing this is the one you replaced. If it screwed right in, I'm assuming it's already a 3/8" NTP thread. I have to take off my intake manifold to fix some broken bolts anyway, so it should be simple enough to replace the sensor while I'm in there.

IAT:
you will want this going into plastic not metal so that you don't get heatsoak and false readings.

Good point -- thanks.

1 vs 2 Wideband O2:
Shouldn't be a problem. If one side is reading materially different than the other, you've got bigger problems since all fueling is done from only one table!

I think I remember seeing that having two sensors was helpful if you were doing really high performance stuff, or something like that. I think I'll be fine with one.

Pressure Regulator:
The DIY one is fine if I recall. ~$150

Great, that was easy.

Injectors:
I think I used these guys: http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com‎

I took a look at their web site, and they seem to sort the injectors by brand, which I guess makes sense for most of their buyers.

The hard part seems to be searching for injectors with the right specs -- 19 lbs/hour, 48mm or however tall I can find, and whatever the diameter of the injector bungs are. A quick look at a few injectors on their site don't show any of that information. This lack of information seems to be a pretty common on sites that sell injectors, which makes it rather hard to find what I'm looking for.

TPS:
It is only used for acceleration enhancement and I think the other guys have found that the MAP works just as well.

Ok. If I change my mind later I'll try bitsyncmaster's junkyard Malibu sensor.

Tach:
While you are fuel only you have no choice since your ECU will want the VR wire. You can tap it by the coil or by the ECU, it doesn't matter. As a rule however, don't use wire taps and other "cheapo" means of installing MS. Solder on connectors and shrink tubing over them. You'll appreciate having everything plug connected rather than hard wired.

Ah, ok; I had a feeling that using the VR wire while the ECU was still using it could cause problems. Coil it is!

Years ago I did use the clip-on wire taps to add accessories to the car, before I knew all that much about how things were wired. I replaced my fuse box a few weeks ago, and this weekend I'm going to clean up some of those old taps and replace them with proper connectors and solder. I'll definitely be using connectors on the MS harness as well instead of hardwiring.

Fuel Pump Control:
Nothing at all against Dave's relay, but in my opinion life is easier if you make the whole MS setup "self contained" and free from legacy systems of the car. I find it much easier to diagnose and fix if necessary.

OK; my logic was that keeping the RPM relay would make it simper to do the installation, but I admit it means having two systems operating instead of one.

I honestly can't remember what else the RPM relay does; is it just to run the fuel pump? Do you need it once you've switched pump control to MS?


For MS, I tap two types of power from the passenger side, 12v on key and 12v continuous(x2). My new fuel pump relay is energized by the "on key" and allows the continuous 12v to then flow to fuel pump and the coil of another relay (for clean, no voltage spike 12v directly from a battery connection) for MS, O2 & injectors. Fused of course. Fuel pumps can be "noisy" and by pulling my 12v from the battery I minimize the noise on the circuit going to electronics. The wiring is easy.

Cool. Ok, I'll look into setting up something similar as well. I actually already have a dedicated accessory-switched direct-from-the-battery line for some fused accessories I added (heated seats and a power inverted, mostly), so adding a second dedicated wire run that is always live when the key is in start/run shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[jangell]

One of the main issues you will likely combat is electrical noise. I ended up switching to the VR configuration because I had TERRIBLE coil noise problems. Some people have had great success off the coil negative, others have had terrible results. It seems to be a 'depends on your car' thing.

I gather you're doing MS-controlled spark if you're using the VR, right? How obvious was it that the problem you were having was noise? Did you need to do a lot of trial and error, or were you seeing an obviously bad signal in MS?

I noticed the MS docs suggest using an isolator from Radio Shack if noise problems become enough of an issue. I'm not totally sure what an "isolator" is defined as (just a big capacitor?) or where exactly you'd put it (if it's a big capacitor, then presumably not on the tach line, since I assume it would smooth out or mask the tach pulses themselves).


TPS will most likely give you headaches and it is definitely not required. I burned through four units before I gave up trying to figure out why they kept dying.

Ok; I'll stick with MAP for now and keep it simple.


The GM intake air temp sensor has the same threads but I don't think it's the exact same sensor. Mine has a 'birdcage' around a sensor element vs. the coolant temperature being solid metal on the outside

I was looking at this specific one (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/gm-closed-element-clt-iat-sensor-with-connector-p-115.html) for both because the DIYAutotune description suggested it would work for both CLT and IAT. I have no idea how the closed vs birdcage sensor designs might behave differently, or if they're functionally identical for these purposes.


I can also confirm you will want taller injectors. I went for higher flow since I have long-term plans that will warrant it, but the injectors I ended up with are short and stubby - on my car I have to remove the rails to get to the spark plugs. Taller is better.

Now I just have to find some.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[jangell]

I emailed DIYAutotune about 3.57 in our cars, and Matt Cramer got back to me with this:


I simply wired a 10K resistor inline with the distributor pick-up. Happens on certain VR sensors, but DeLoreans are the only one I've seen have that with a distributor; it's usually been high tooth count crank wheels.

That sounds pretty simple. Looks like I'm going to go with 3.57 after all.

-- Joe

[jangell]

And since I can go with 3.57, I'm thinking of getting MS III instead of II. It's more expensive, but it seems like the convenience of the built-in USB/serial adaptor and the SD card for data logging would be nice, as well as the ability to use the extra inputs and outputs for custom stuff later on. It's just a question if the extra $200 is worth it...

-- Joe

[Spittybug]

Go for it. You can become the ms3 expert of the forum.

[jangell]

I did a lot of searching around for fuel injectors today, and came up with nothing. Well, I could find 19 lb/hr (or 200cc/min; same difference) injectors, but I couldn't find anything about how tall they are. I did find one place that sold 76mm tall injectors (http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/custom-fuel-injectors/), but they were 32.5 lb/hr, which isn't going to work here. I'm considering just going to the nearby NAPA and asking for their tallest 19 lb/hour injectors and seeing where that gets me.

Also: any preference between high or low impedance injectors?

Thanks again

-- Joe

[Spittybug]

I did a lot of searching around for fuel injectors today, and came up with nothing. Well, I could find 19 lb/hr (or 200cc/min; same difference) injectors, but I couldn't find anything about how tall they are. I did find one place that sold 76mm tall injectors (http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/custom-fuel-injectors/), but they were 32.5 lb/hr, which isn't going to work here. I'm considering just going to the nearby NAPA and asking for their tallest 19 lb/hour injectors and seeing where that gets me.

Also: any preference between high or low impedance injectors?

Thanks again

-- Joe

HIGH. Low seems to give nothing but problems as far as I can tell. And you need extra circuitry (fly back). The 19# injectors are sized right. Any bigger and your pulsewidth at idle will be too short and you'll have terrible trouble getting good fueling at idle. Try googling fuel injectors and look at the picture results. See if you can then narrow down which are the tall ones.

[opethmike]

HIGH. Low seems to give nothing but problems as far as I can tell. And you need extra circuitry (fly back). The 19# injectors are sized right. Any bigger and your pulsewidth at idle will be too short and you'll have terrible trouble getting good fueling at idle. Try googling fuel injectors and look at the picture results. See if you can then narrow down which are the tall ones.

This this this over and over again. I had SOOOOOO many problems trying to use the low impedance injectors that came with my Renault manifold. The very moment I switched to high impedance and set the parameters per the documentation, VROOM!

I love that MS3 allows VE tuning by as narrow as 0.1%. You'll be able to get insanely accurate AFRs with that. I would love to get that accurate, but seeing as I don't use a TPS, or even an IAC, MS3 would be rather overkill for me :)

[jangell]

Thanks guys -- I'll be sure to get high impedance injectors.

GIS was a good idea -- it led me to the tall EV1 and EV6 bodies. 19 lb/hr EV1 units are commonly used in Mustangs, it seems, and are around 74mm tall; the EV6 injectors don't seem to come in 19 lb/hr, instead starting at 24 lb/hr. The only obvious down side is that it seems that many places sell them in sets of 8.

I found some diagrams (http://www.rmaperformance.com/tags/ev14/) showing the injector dimensions. Assuming I'm reading them correctly, I think they're the right size for the injector ports in Owen's rails and the DMC's cylinder heads -- the rails have ~13mm holes in them, and the diagrams show the O-rings as ~13.5mm.

222902229122292

I thought I'd sanity-check here before I order any. I only really found four brands in my searches:

8 Pack of Accel 19lb EV1 injectors (http://www.jegs.com/i/Accel/110/150819/10002/-1?parentProductId=) for $291. They sell them individually for $50 each -- an 8 pack is cheaper than buying six separately. Accel turns up the most when searching for "19lb EV1" on Google.
Delphi 19lb EV1 injectors (http://www.promracing.com/19-lb-hr-fuel-injector.html) for $40 each ($260 for 6).
8 Pack of Venom Performance 19lb EV1 injectors (http://www.stage3motorsports.com/HP-619-8-1989-04-Mustang-GT-Venom-19LB-High-Flow-Universal-Fuel-Injector-Set.html) for $209. The specs list them as having only a 2" (~50 mm) overall height, while the diagrams above suggest they should be ~3".
8 Pack of TREPerformance 19lb EV1 injectors (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRE-19LB-HR-Fuel-Injectors-Fit-Bosch-Chevy-Ford-V8-LS1-LT1-5-0L-EV1-200cc-min-8-/321108689431?_trksid=p2054897.l4275) for $200 on eBay


My attempts to find the Bosch variant (which appears to be 0280155735) finds only remanufactured ones on eBay, with other sites listing them as discontinued.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[AdmiralSenn]

I gather you're doing MS-controlled spark if you're using the VR, right? How obvious was it that the problem you were having was noise? Did you need to do a lot of trial and error, or were you seeing an obviously bad signal in MS?

Not yet, I made the switch because of the noise problem. It was fairly obvious, the needle on the tuning software would swing wildly and the logs showed complete random noise. Others have had less spectacular noise problems but mine was an easy diag
I noticed the MS docs suggest using an isolator from Radio Shack if noise problems become enough of an issue. I'm not totally sure what an "isolator" is defined as (just a big capacitor?) or where exactly you'd put it (if it's a big capacitor, then presumably not on the tach line, since I assume it would smooth out or mask the tach pulses themselves).

Probably not strictly necessary.


I was looking at this specific one (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/gm-closed-element-clt-iat-sensor-with-connector-p-115.html) for both because the DIYAutotune description suggested it would work for both CLT and IAT. I have no idea how the closed vs birdcage sensor designs might behave differently, or if they're functionally identical for these purposes.

You're probably fine with the closed element. I wanted the faster response because of where I intend to take my project in the future, and it was only a few dollars more.


-- Joe

Hope that helps. Looks like you're on the right track with the injectors. I can confirm that bigger is not always better. It is theoretically possible to run huge injectors but unless you're planning on adding turbos or something it's not necessary and makes tuning (especially at idle) really difficult. And that was with the high impedance, my previous attempt with 22lb low-impedance injectors actually idled worse.

MSIII is cool, but wasn't available when I built my unit. If you go that route I'll be curious to see what you experience as it's something I've considered for the future.

[jangell]

Not yet, I made the switch because of the noise problem. It was fairly obvious, the needle on the tuning software would swing wildly and the logs showed complete random noise. Others have had less spectacular noise problems but mine was an easy diag

Good to know. I was curious about using the VR without using MS for spark, since I wasn't sure if tapping it would interfere with the stock ECU. I'll try the coil first, and then I'll bug you about your VR setup if I can't get that working reliably.


You're probably fine with the closed element. I wanted the faster response because of where I intend to take my project in the future, and it was only a few dollars more.

OK. I'm probably not going to add much else on to boost my engine; I have an automatic, so the combination of aggressive cams, free-flowing exhaust and MS are probably getting me close to the theoretical 200 HP limit at the flywheel that the transmission can support (although I imagine my true HP is quite a bit lower than that, and I haven't put it on a dyno or anything).


Hope that helps. Looks like you're on the right track with the injectors. I can confirm that bigger is not always better. It is theoretically possible to run huge injectors but unless you're planning on adding turbos or something it's not necessary and makes tuning (especially at idle) really difficult. And that was with the high impedance, my previous attempt with 22lb low-impedance injectors actually idled worse.

I'll stick with the 19 lb/hr injectors then. Thanks!

[QUOTE\MSIII is cool, but wasn't available when I built my unit. If you go that route I'll be curious to see what you experience as it's something I've considered for the future.[/QUOTE]

I'm probably going to get the III. I don't expect it'll be much different from using the II, but I guess we'll find out.

Thanks again

-- Joe

[AdmiralSenn]

Good to know. I was curious about using the VR without using MS for spark, since I wasn't sure if tapping it would interfere with the stock ECU. I'll try the coil first, and then I'll bug you about your VR setup if I can't get that working reliably.


-- Joe

Whoops, I forgot to clarify. Yes, I am using the VR input without controlling spark. Since I still need the ignition ECU for the time being I just tapped the leads into the existing harness and piggybacked off the signal. No worries, less wire to run and hides nicely behind the ECU mounting tray.

You can actually tap coil negative in the same place, since it comes from the same connector on the ignition ECU. Running a wire to the coil basically gives you a huge antenna to pick up more noise. Even with shielded RPM-signal-specific wire and a shielded coil wire it was an issue on my car.

Either way works, but I really think the VR method is the way to go since you have built in adjustment pots on the MS board. These cars are very electrically noisy for a number of reasons, anything you can do to calm it down is a plus.

[jangell]

Ah, cool -- I'll have to ask you about how to do that once I start putting things together.

I finished up my fuse box replacement today, and took the mixture unit out of the car. I also tried to take out the intake manifold; when my more knowledgable friend helped me put the engine together last time he used some kind of gasket sealant stuff on the mating surfaces, and I can't get the intake manifold off (all four bolts are out and the cold start pipe is off). Next weekend I'll take out the injectors so that I can try to get a pry bar in there, and maybe hammer on a block of wood against the end of the manifold to try to break it free.

BTW, what does everyone do about the now-unused wires and connectors on the harness, like the CPR and CSV? Just clip them off? Or do you make a new harness rather than ruin a stock one?

-- Joe

[Spittybug]

I found that I removed so many wires that it made sense just to make a new harness. That really cleaned up the engine bay too. I used the polyester loom material you can buy at places like Frys (for inside computer cases) and heat shrink tubing to seal the ends. Route things where YOU want, not where some engineer wanted it to save a few inches of cost....

[jangell]

Works for me. Where the bulkhead connectors difficult to find? I expect everything else is ring or blade connectors.

Thanks

-- Joe

[Spittybug]

For the few you need to keep, I just used female bullets. I had to spread them open a little and then I used shrink tubing down to that size so that they stay on tight.

[Josh]

A different opinion here, as I would not push female bullet connectors in the bulkhead connectors.

Double triple check which wires you want to remove and push them out with a jeweler's screwdriver. Hard to explain, but once you get the first one it is much easier. It is worth saving a few unused leads for future use, such as:

Yellow plug pin 4 (switched, fuse 5)
Blue plug pin 21 (constant power, fuse 12)
White plug pin 45 (switched power, fuse 1)

These are the ones that were open for my swap, but I am doing full fuel and spark, as well as eliminating the otterstat.

Refer to this diagram for a comprehensive pinout:

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/pdfs/DeLorean%20Bulkhead%20Connectors.pdf

As for the connectors themselves, the ones that attach into the pontoon are not available. The connectors that are on the harness that plug into the pontoon are potentially avalable here:


They may or may not work, you would have to try them out. You could buy the terminals and use them in the existing delorean connectors to refurbish them though.

http://www.britishwiring.com/9-Way-3mm-Pin-Socket-Connector-p/c829.htm


For me, I am just cutting up my original harness as it was pretty rough to start with.

[jangell]

Thanks guys. I actually have a new harness (about a year and a half old now), so I'd hate to cut it up for this. I sold my old harness on eBay when I replaced it, so it would be nice not destroy a nice new one.

I'm willing to give those BritishWiring.com connectors a go -- they look just like what I was looking for.

-- Joe

[lazabby]

Joe,
I got my injectors from South Bay Fuel Injectors. Call Julie at 516-442-4707.

[jangell]

Do you remember what you got? EV1 or some other body?

Thanks

-- Joe

[lazabby]

Do you remember what you got? EV1 or some other body?

Thanks

-- Joe

In my email to Julie I wrote "I need to get some 19 lb or 20 lb EV6 style high impedance fuel injectors. I'm looking for the shorter ones, 48mm in length or less."

The shorter injectors worked but it was a tight fit. The advantage is that the airbox fits as it should. Ian got slightly taller ones but they bumped against the airbox and it doesn't fit quite snug IIRC.

[jangell]

Ah, I didn't think about the airbox fitting. I'll have to do some test fits and see what I get.

Unfortunately, this is on hold for a bit while I figure out what to do about the hole in my engine's VOD.

-- Joe