Which modern engine would Mr. John DeLorean use?

[anywhen]

http://blogs.motorcyclistonline.com/motus-v4-baby-block-available-as-crate-engine-32467.html#axzz2hwex6rBp

Somebody Stop Me! Light-weight and fuel-injected.

[LordFly]

Which modern engine would Mr. John DeLorean use?

Likely one with more torque then a base model Corolla :wink:

[Josh]

One of the bikes it is in is rated at 180 bhp and 120lbft of torque. It makes it at a reasonable rpm, unlike most sportbikes so you are not reving the crap out of it.

The issue with an motorcycle engine in a car is the weight of the car. The clutch and the transmission are simply not designed for the weight. This is extremely hard on these components and premature failure is very likely.


However, I am always interesting in a cool engine swap!

[dmcnorway]

I remember that in the documentary "DeLorean" by Hegedus/Pennebaker, there is a segment showing John in a DMC board meeting discussing Renault and their PRV-engine.

I seem to remember that the discussion was about the PRV-engine being too expensive, and that DMC should get a better price on it since they were going to buy lots of engines in the long run from Renault. Anyway, in that discussion John mentioned something like..."in a year or so, we'll switch to Alfa".

Hm - an Alfa Romeo V6, that would be something :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_V6_engine

Best wishes

Stian Birkeland
Norway

[ALEXAKOS]

A diesel!

The only engine type that can live as long as the Stainless steel!

[thirdmanj]

A diesel!

The only engine type that can live as long as the Stainless steel!

Word.

[anywhen]

This engine will bolt to the DeLorean transmission. With a lightweight exhaust it should be a big weight savings on the rear end. New engine, fuel injected, likes to rev and built for upgrades.


http://thekneeslider.com/is-the-motus-v4-baby-block-crate-engine-the-future-of-old-school-hot-rodding/

[AugustneverEnds]

Porsche Boxster/Cayman flat 6.

[LordFly]

This engine will bolt to the DeLorean transmission. With a lightweight exhaust it should be a big weight savings on the rear end. New engine, fuel injected, likes to rev and built for upgrades.


http://thekneeslider.com/is-the-motus-v4-baby-block-crate-engine-the-future-of-old-school-hot-rodding/

It bolts to the DeLorean transmission? :hmm: Are you sure about that? I would be VERY surprised to find out that was true. Bike engines are car engines are very different beasts. One is meant to move a 400lb vehicle, the other a 3000lb vehicle. I guess I don't know exactly what you're looking for in a car, but I think you would be rather dissapointed after the time and money spent on that swap only to gain 50 HP but lose 50 ft.lb of torque.

[ALEXAKOS]

Porsche Boxster/Cayman flat 6.

I don't think Porsche shares it's engines:deedledee:

It is all a matter of what his potentials are.

If De Lorean was at the same financial squeeze, we would see an engine that is commonly used.
Mitsubishi, KIA, DAIHATSU, HYUNDAI etc

[Dangermouse]

A variation of the Toyota 2GR-FE that Lotus uses would be appropriate - 276HP NA and 345HP supercharged.

[David T]

A variation of the Toyota 2GR-FE that Lotus uses would be appropriate - 276HP NA and 345HP supercharged.

As much as engineering may dictate a particular engine, other real world factors come into play. It needs to be certified or easily certifiable in the US, the company selling it needs to have enough surplus production to fulfill the need, and they must be willing to sell to a competitor, preferably with good pricing and terms. At the time the only viable option was the PRV and it came with a transmission that needed only minor modification to fit! DMC realized early on the problems with the PRV and was already exploring other alternatives. Perhaps, if things went differently, they might have eventually bought motors from Lotus. Still leaves the transmission problem which Lotus also had. Maybe between the two of them they would have either bought or had made their own. There was a very close relationship between the two companies and they both had similar problems. As a footnote, Lotus no longer makes their own motors, they buy and then extensively modify Toyota motors. Since the Delorean is an overgrown Lotus (at least underneath) it is not too far-fetched to think they may have followed Lotus's growth path.

[LordFly]

A variation of the Toyota 2GR-FE that Lotus uses would be appropriate - 276HP NA and 345HP supercharged.

Yeah, that would be a good one :) Although the way HP numbers on sports cars are growing these days, I think if the DeLorean were still in production, it would likely have a V8 option by now (if there were engine options). Maybe the Lotus 918 V8 turbo from the later model Esprit, sticking with the Lotus theme.

[anywhen]

It bolts to the DeLorean transmission? :hmm: Are you sure about that? I would be VERY surprised to find out that was true. Bike engines are car engines are very different beasts. One is meant to move a 400lb vehicle, the other a 3000lb vehicle. I guess I don't know exactly what you're looking for in a car, but I think you would be rather dissapointed after the time and money spent on that swap only to gain 50 HP but lose 50 ft.lb of torque.

Reading the web, it appears that this engine was designed to work on project cars. I am not sure how well it would preform in a DeLorean but it should handle better. I do not know how easy a swap would be. I just want my car the rev up when the happy pedal is pushed. Thanks for all the comments so far. One of the things I like about the DeLorean is that it does not come equipped with a free penis extension. The Miata originally had a 1.6 liter engine and it has been a success story.

[LordFly]

Reading the web, it appears that this engine was designed to work on project cars. I am not sure how well it would preform in a DeLorean but it should handle better.

Hmm, well that would be interesting. I suppose it could work on very small cars that were very light. Or maybe if you were going for fuel economy over performance. Although in my experience, bikes are not nearly as fuel efficient for their size/weight as cars. It definitely would not be on my list of choices for an engine swap. Especially for that price!

[anywhen]

How much would a new fuel injection system cost? Just seeing that sweet looking v-4 in the engine bay is worth $10,000. I have driven my D from Georgia to Gettysburg and back, Georgia to Lexington and back then in 2012 went from Georgia to Key West via Orlando and back. My car ran fine but just the thought of all the 30 year old fuel system parts that can go bad does not give me piece of mind. I could spend money on my engine but its no good without a better fuel injection system. I want to do a coast to coast to coast trip one day.

[louielouie2000]

Are we talking about an engine swap on an existing 30 year old DeLorean, or is this thread hypothesizing what engine DeLorean Motor Company might source today if it were around?

Seeing how the company was founded to be an "ethical" one, where virtues like fuel efficiency, safety, and light weight were paramount, it's safe to say v8s wouldn't be what JZD would be interested in. More likely, something like boosted smaller displacement engines would be his thing, or perhaps even a performance hybrid. JZD was always trying to think ahead of the curve as far as technology goes, so V8s would be 'oh so yesterday' for him in 2013, I'd think.

I think an engine that might be a modern day equivalent to the PRV would be the Peugeot/Citroen 4 cylinder that BMW sources for the current-generation Mini. Interestingly enough, this engine is produced in the same Douvrin factory that the PRV was. The engine is emissions certified on all continents, used in a half dozen different marques, and Peugeot/Citroen is about to have a large excess manufacturing capacity on their hands: third generation Minis are sourcing entirely new powerplants. These engines also offer big MPGs, and in boosted form, they pull REALLY hard (if you've ever driven a Cooper S, they are an absolute riot). Much like the PRV, they have a reputation for being a bit particular/fussy, too. :biggrin:

[nkemp]

Chevy Volt or Fisker engine/motor type. Torque galore!. BTW ... watch NOVA "Making Stuff: Faster". Specifically the part on the electric Datsun sleeper that uses LiMn batteries. On the drag it will outrun the $1.2M Bugatti Veyron.

[LordFly]

Chevy Volt or Fisker engine/motor type. Torque galore!. BTW ... watch NOVA "Making Stuff: Faster". Specifically the part on the electric Datsun sleeper that uses LiMn batteries. On the drag it will outrun the $1.2M Bugatti Veyron.


I hope you don't mean THIS ONE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=369h-SEBXd8). At the end it ran mid 11's. I'm pretty sure a Veyron can beat that.

[nkemp]

I hope you don't mean THIS ONE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=369h-SEBXd8). At the end it ran mid 11's. I'm pretty sure a Veyron can beat that.

That was four years ago. He since has replaced the LiIon batteries with LiMn batteries (military issue). I'd have to rewatch the Nova show to see what times he is running now. But "yes", they did claim it would outrun the Veyron.

Regardless...it would make for an interesting DeLorean

[LordFly]

Regardless...it would make for an interesting DeLorean

It would, but not much a highway cruiser. I think a modern DeLorean would have a gas engine, or a hybrid at most. Not a full blown electric. And given that JZD was originally after a 200hp engine (in the early 80s!), I think a modern DeLorean would easily be pushing past the 400HP mark by now.

[AugustneverEnds]

I don't think Porsche shares it's engines:deedledee:

It is all a matter of what his potentials are.

If De Lorean was at the same financial squeeze, we would see an engine that is commonly used.
Mitsubishi, KIA, DAIHATSU, HYUNDAI etc

I can still dream :rolleyes1:

[anywhen]

I hope you don't mean THIS ONE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=369h-SEBXd8). At the end it ran mid 11's. I'm pretty sure a Veyron can beat that.

Awesome video. The Porsche Hybrid Spyder has the electric motor independent on each front wheel and capacitors that charge from braking. This car pulls through corners with each front wheel pulling at optimum speed. I was appraising a house when I saw my first Chevy Volt. The owner told me that it was the best car he has ever owned. When I inspected his garage he also had a yellow Ferrari. The Volt system is intriguing as it is gas powered to only charge the batteries. Tesla is developing a battery exchange station that will swap a fresh battery in your Tesla electric car in the same amount of time it takes to full up a car with gas.

When it came time to upgrade my DeLorean stereo I went the custom route and keep my Craig to go back stock if needed. The same is true for a engine swap. A four cylinder is what I think DeLorean and Collins would be researching. After $2,500 for my stereo upgrade, I have no regrets.

[DMCVegas]

As much as engineering may dictate a particular engine, other real world factors come into play. It needs to be certified or easily certifiable in the US, the company selling it needs to have enough surplus production to fulfill the need, and they must be willing to sell to a competitor, preferably with good pricing and terms. At the time the only viable option was the PRV and it came with a transmission that needed only minor modification to fit! DMC realized early on the problems with the PRV and was already exploring other alternatives. Perhaps, if things went differently, they might have eventually bought motors from Lotus. Still leaves the transmission problem which Lotus also had. Maybe between the two of them they would have either bought or had made their own. There was a very close relationship between the two companies and they both had similar problems. As a footnote, Lotus no longer makes their own motors, they buy and then extensively modify Toyota motors. Since the Delorean is an overgrown Lotus (at least underneath) it is not too far-fetched to think they may have followed Lotus's growth path.

The PRV was certainly the best choice at the time as since Lotus was engineering the chassis and could modify the motor and transaxle mounts, the PRV/Renault drivetrain was just a practical drop-in from the Renault Alpine. The Rover V8 was also a viable choice since both were already certified for use in the U.S. and needed only minor testing in the DMC-12 platform to obtain certification. However the Rover still needed engineering for the bell housing, as well as potentially additional for the rear suspension. Plus the PRV was fuel injected and far more modular of an engine for future expansion. As is of course the UN-Series transaxle (available for trucks and AWD applications).

As for the future, it's all speculative of course. However JZD did say that he wanted off the shelf parts under the hood as well as wanted to eventually build his own engine. I don't think that DMC would have simply bought engines from Lotus given many factors (production capability, reliability, serviceability, etc). I could see though DMC becoming successful and buying out Lotus (instead of how GM did later on) and adopting their engines as a turnkey solution for mass producing their own. As well as rebadging and assimilating the rest of Lotus as a DMC property.

True, Lotus did eventually kill off the Esprit due to Renault ceasing production of the UN-Series transaxle. But that doesn't mean that like GM selling the Buick 215 engine to British Leyland that eventually became the Rover V8, it's not to say that Renault couldn't have sold off the UN Transaxle off to DMC to become their own as well.

[opethmike]

The PRV was certainly the best choice at the time as since Lotus was engineering the chassis and could modify the motor and transaxle mounts, the PRV/Renault drivetrain was just a practical drop-in from the Renault Alpine. The Rover V8 was also a viable choice since both were already certified for use in the U.S. and needed only minor testing in the DMC-12 platform to obtain certification. However the Rover still needed engineering for the bell housing, as well as potentially additional for the rear suspension. Plus the PRV was fuel injected and far more modular of an engine for future expansion. As is of course the UN-Series transaxle (available for trucks and AWD applications).

As for the future, it's all speculative of course. However JZD did say that he wanted off the shelf parts under the hood as well as wanted to eventually build his own engine. I don't think that DMC would have simply bought engines from Lotus given many factors (production capability, reliability, serviceability, etc). I could see though DMC becoming successful and buying out Lotus (instead of how GM did later on) and adopting their engines as a turnkey solution for mass producing their own. As well as rebadging and assimilating the rest of Lotus as a DMC property.

True, Lotus did eventually kill off the Esprit due to Renault ceasing production of the UN-Series transaxle. But that doesn't mean that like GM selling the Buick 215 engine to British Leyland that eventually became the Rover V8, it's not to say that Renault couldn't have sold off the UN Transaxle off to DMC to become their own as well.

Actually, the real reason that Lotus killed off the Esprit was because it was far too awesome of a car and would have eventually shamed all other cars out of existence.

[anywhen]

I found this on the web.

http://hooniverse.com/2013/07/25/hooniverse-asks-what-would-be-the-coolest-doable-delorean-engine-swap/

[ALEXAKOS]

I found this on the web.

http://hooniverse.com/2013/07/25/hooniverse-asks-what-would-be-the-coolest-doable-delorean-engine-swap/

Nice find!
Apparently the subject has been recently troubling plenty of people!
Love how the GM northstar sits in there:flamed:

[jawn101]

One commenter on the above article recommended the Ford/Yamaha SHO engine. I had a '93 SHO with the 3.0L in it and I can say that I'd put that engine in just about any car :)

[anywhen]

I guess I am obsessed with the motus v-4 engine. Wish I had some data about 0-60 times on a similar size auto. Please excuse me for using the "O" word on this forum.

The other engine that would be perfect for the DeLorean is the 3.8 liter Pentastar. I can not find how much it weighs, but it apparently is a light engine. I have a Jeep Wrangler with the Pentastar. It has 285 horsepower and 260 pound of torque. The 5 speed transmission should handle this power. If not, they are also making smaller version of the Pentastar. Chrysler put this powertrain in the 012 and 013 Jeep Wranglers. The best features are the oil filter is changed from the top and drive-by-wire throttle. A wreck jeep should not be hard to find. I personally think the Motus V-4 is way cool. If I want to go fast, I get on my Ducati, which by the way has a 90 degree "L" twin engine. Same angle layout as the PRV less four cylinders.

Pentastar the modern engine for the movie star car. What do you think?

[LordFly]

I personally think the Motus V-4 is way cool. If I want to go fast, I get on my Ducati

I won't argue it's a cool engine, but I seriously think you'd be severely disappointed with it in a car. If you want a sample, try towing your DeLorean with the Ducati. I know, not exactly the same, but it's close enough that you'll see what it'd be like.

[anywhen]

I won't argue it's a cool engine, but I seriously think you'd be severely disappointed with it in a car. If you want a sample, try towing your DeLorean with the Ducati. I know, not exactly the same, but it's close enough that you'll see what it'd be like.

I think it would run circles around a stock PRV, Mitch

[jamesrguk]

I won't argue it's a cool engine, but I seriously think you'd be severely disappointed with it in a car. If you want a sample, try towing your DeLorean with the Ducati. I know, not exactly the same, but it's close enough that you'll see what it'd be like.

Bike engines work well in light weight kit cars where torque is arguably not as important as bhp and high revving engines etc... But a Westfield or cateram only weighs in at ~ 600kg as opposed to the DeLorean at around 1300kg I think it would be a complete waste of time and money to put such an engine in a DeLorean. Just MHO of course

Back O/T, I think the lotus twin cam which an owner installed into a DeLorean recently would be a nice amalgamation of DMC and lotus resources had the venture continued, it even looks like it belongs in there.

James

[thirdmanj]

Just skimmed the thread again and didn't see any mention of the Wankle. I seem to recal reading somewhere that DeLorean was interested in using the rotary engine for a time. I don't remember why he ditched it, but I'm sure $$ was a factor.

[D Knight]

Before DMC went under, John was in talks to purchase Lamborghini. So you never know, they may have gone v12 powered. I feel this is impractical as just about every part on the Lambo v12 is expensive.


-D Knight-

[NightFlyer]

Had the company survived 30+ years, I'm certain that John would have started production of his own engine by now, as was originally intended.

[anywhen]

The DeLorean DMC 12 is a fun, unique, rare car that never needs a paint job and has a good pedigree. The 130 Donkey Power PRV engine is the biggest complaint. Is there an engine swap that could possibly increase the value of my car?

[opethmike]

99.9% of the time engine swaps don't increase value.

[anywhen]

The DeLorean DMC 12 is a fun, unique, rare car that never needs a paint job and has a good pedigree. The 130 Donkey Power PRV engine is the biggest complaint. Is there an engine swap that could possibly increase the value of my car?

Let me rephrase my question as I know that a $30,000 racing engine swap will increase the value of my car. What engine swap or PRV upgrade would optimize my investment?

[anywhen]

99.9% of the time engine swaps don't increase value.

I still like the Motus 4 banger. I do not look at it as a motorcycle engine. It is more of a car engine that is being used in a motorcycle. Anytime you can lose weight and gain horsepower it is a good thing. My DeLorean has an 85 MPH speedo and may the force be with you when you drive past 88 MPH. What if, decent performance and 40 miles to the gallon. Would that not be Living The Dream?

[nkemp]

a $30,000 racing engine swap will increase the value of my car.

A more appropriate way to say that is "a $30,000 racing engine swap will increase the value of my car to a smaller subset of the market." You cannot say that across the board a car with an engine swap increases the value... and that is an appropriate statement for all cars. A Chevy Cruze with a V8 swap will have a much smaller market to serve than a stock Chevy Cruze and thus its perceived value may or may not be realized.

I know a guy that has a large fleet of cars. He buys cars guys have put lots of money and work into at below what they invested (in dollars and labor)...because they couldn't find that buyer willing to pay what they thought it would be worth.

A heavily modified DeLorean priced at $50,000 is only worth that price if the buyer values it at $50,000 or more. And there are a lot less of those willing to value it at that price than for DeLoreans priced/valued at $40,000 or $25,000 or $??,???. For that matter, some buyers value a stock or near stock DeLorean at higher values than modified cars.

If you want to modify your car, do it for your own personal values, not as a guarantee of a higher future value.

[LordFly]

Let me rephrase my question as I know that a $30,000 racing engine swap will increase the value of my car. What engine swap or PRV upgrade would optimize my investment?

Probably the stage 2 kit would be the best bang for the buck. Bumps power to about 200 hp. I've driven one and it's pretty sweet. And about 1/100 the hassle of any engine swap.

However, you seem pretty hung up on that Motus engine. The price is insane, and the torque level is on par for an early 2000 Civic, but if neither of those are a concern for you, go ahead and swap it in.

[louielouie2000]

Let me rephrase my question as I know that a $30,000 racing engine swap will increase the value of my car. What engine swap or PRV upgrade would optimize my investment?

When I hear "racing engine" it makes me think the car wouldn't be suitable/practical/enjoyable for street use. If that's what you're aiming for, you will absolutely kill any value your DeLorean has.

The one engine I repeatedly hear that DeLorean owners want in their cars are small block Chevrolet V8s, most often LS1's. These engines are compact, light, simple, reliable, powerful, easy to work on & cheap to buy parts for. Several owners have performed this swap, retained their stock transmissions, and pulled it all of beautifully. If you're wanting to broaden the appeal of DeLoreans to folks who normally wouldn't give the DeLorean the time of day, this is the engine that would do it.

[opethmike]

A $30,000 racing engine would not increase the value of your car. It would increase the money you spent on it. Nearly 100% of classic car buyers look for stock engines in the cars they are considering for purchase; not swapped engines.

And as Louie said, a racing engine on the street would not be any good. The entire powerband is going to be way up in the rev range, so you'll be spinning way high to have power which is just going to draw all sorts of attention from the ticket writing authorities.

Just how much power/speed are you looking for exactly? The car can be made use-ably quick for modern traffic with heads, cams, exhaust, and if you're feeling adventurous, EFI, on the stock engine.

If you're looking for modern sports car type of power & speed, yes, you can do a swap, but there are WAY better choices than a racing bike engine.

[anywhen]

I have been researching the comments on this thread. I read the documented LS1 swap and it is impressive. Waking up the stock PRV seems to be best for re-sale value. My DeLorean so far has kept me from buying an expensive sport car that will lose more of its value in two years than I have invested in my car. I do not need my car to be a rocket-ship, I just want it to be more fun to drive. Thanks for the all the help. Looking now at designer tires to sweeten my ride. That is cheaper than an engine swap. Anybody want to buy a matched set of 50% used Bridgestone Potenzas?

[Starglider]

The only application I can think of for those tiny V4s is if you wanted to make another dual-engine 4WD DMC-12. Someone did this a while back with a huge big-block V8 in the back + I4 in the front. Impressive engineering but it wasn't really practical to drive, also needed a custom frame and a huge amount of other custom fabrication. It would be somewhat more practical although still a huge project to put one of these where the fuel tank is, then another one in the back with a fuel cell in the spare volume. Might be able to keep the stock frame but would still need a lot of custom work; at least it would have reasonable power-to-weight and some luggage room left over. Still negligble resale though.


Waking up the stock PRV seems to be best for re-sale value. I do not need my car to be a rocket-ship, I just want it to be more fun to drive.

EFI plus twin-turbo or supercharging will put you in the 250hp to 300hp range with as much torque as the stock transmission can handle for $8K to $15K (depending on exactly what bits and how much you do yourself). I'd recommend an EFI solution over the DMCH stage 3 option as forced induction is mostly wasted on K-Jet.

[opethmike]

The only application I can think of for those tiny V4s is if you wanted to make another dual-engine 4WD DMC-12. Someone did this a while back with a huge big-block V8 in the back + I4 in the front. Impressive engineering but it wasn't really practical to drive, also needed a custom frame and a huge amount of other custom fabrication. It would be somewhat more practical although still a huge project to put one of these where the fuel tank is, then another one in the back with a fuel cell in the spare volume. Might be able to keep the stock frame but would still need a lot of custom work; at least it would have reasonable power-to-weight and some luggage room left over. Still negligble resale though.



EFI plus twin-turbo or supercharging will put you in the 250hp to 300hp range with as much torque as the stock transmission can handle for $8K to $15K (depending on exactly what bits and how much you do yourself). I'd recommend an EFI solution over the DMCH stage 3 option as forced induction is mostly wasted on K-Jet.

Provided you address the fragile stock pistons.

[NightFlyer]

For $30k, assuming that you do most of the work yourself, you should be able to build the drive-train via turbo charging the PRV to produce torque and hp on par with the Venturi PRVs, 310-408 bhp, just as John Lane has done with his Volvo PRV rally car.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz_VDwgLemU

There's also a few guys over in Sweden who are attempting to build a twin-charged (compound supercharged and twin turbo-charged) PRV on both 12V and 24V platforms, however, I'm not sure if any of those projects have even gotten anywhere yet.

DPI was previewing a naturally aspirated PRV upgrade that included forged internals, 11.3:1 compression, redesigned heads, redesigned intake, their Stainless Works exhaust, and a fully mapped EFI system for just shy of $13k that was supposed to make up to 250whp, but it has been a while since we heard any mention of this package, despite their summer 2013 roll-out target.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5491-DPI-Engine-Performance-Stats-DYNO-Results-by-the-numbers
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6763-Performance-Mods

[NightFlyer]

Looking now at designer tires to sweeten my ride. That is cheaper than an engine swap. Anybody want to buy a matched set of 50% used Bridgestone Potenzas?

Only true 'designer' tires that I'm aware of are the Giugiaro Designed (same guy who designed the DeLorean) Sportrac series from Vredestein. As far as I know, I'm currently the only owner stateside running a matched set of the Sportrac 5's, as I had to bug/beg Vredestein to import them in our sizes.

You can read all about the Giugiaro Designed Vredestein Sportrac series over on this thread:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7285-2013-Matched-Set-%28Non-Stock-Sized-Rears-or-Fronts%29-Tires&p=106292&viewfull=1#post106292

I've been meaning to post a full review with pics now that I have a couple thousand miles on them, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.

[cybercusp]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/29/abumu2um.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/29/taqejagy.jpg

I'm running a set.

[anywhen]

Only true 'designer' tires that I'm aware of are the Giugiaro Designed (same guy who designed the DeLorean) Sportrac series from Vredestein. As far as I know, I'm currently the only owner stateside running a matched set of the Sportrac 5's, as I had to bug/beg Vredestein to import them in our sizes.

You can read all about the Giugiaro Designed Vredestein Sportrac series over on this thread:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7285-2013-Matched-Set-%28Non-Stock-Sized-Rears-or-Fronts%29-Tires&p=106292&viewfull=1#post106292

I've been meaning to post a full review with pics now that I have a couple thousand miles on them, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Thank you for the pictures and your research. I learned about them on your post. They look great and are by far the ultimate choice for the DeLorean. Gona get me some Bling too. What size shoe do you wear? I want to buy you some DeLorean Nikes.

I do wish there was a modern engine swap that would actually keep or increase the value, similar to a retro-mod muscle car. Thirty year old technology that was old school thirty years ago. Maybe a Pentastar V-6 since nobody else that likes the Motus V-4. Twin Turbos PRV with a new EFI seems to also be a hot set-up. What would John do?

[Nicholas R]

[QUOTE=Starglider;124244
EFI plus twin-turbo or supercharging will put you in the 250hp to 300hp range with as much torque as the stock transmission can handle for $8K to $15K (depending on exactly what bits and how much you do yourself). I'd recommend an EFI solution over the DMCH stage 3 option as forced induction is mostly wasted on K-Jet.[/QUOTE]

When has that ever been done? I'm pretty sure if this was an option, quite a few people would have done this. Keep in mind the Stage III made 157hp on its best run. 300hp from a PRV? No way. You definitely need a documented dyno run to prove that.

[Josh]

When has that ever been done? I'm pretty sure if this was an option, quite a few people would have done this. Keep in mind the Stage III made 157hp on its best run. 300hp from a PRV? No way. You definitely need a documented dyno run to prove that.

He did say forced induction is wasted on kjet, and he is right. With the stage 3 fuel delivery is a big bottleneck. The engine would need to be fully built up as well to handle the power, if we are talking about a 2.8. The 3.0 can handle these numbers, it has been done before with single and dual turbos. These obviously had full aftermarket EFI setups. But 300hp from a PRV is attainable. But not with k jet.

[NightFlyer]

I'm running a set.

Michael - that's AWESOME :thumbup:

Thanks for the pics! 8)

I'm curious as to when you procured your set? Did you have to wait for the fronts to be imported, or were they already warehoused here and ready for immediate delivery (as that's what Vredestein corporate had told me when I imported my set, which took nearly two months to finally arrive)? Did you order via the TireFactory.net/TiresByWeb.com? How do you like them / what are your impressions?

While I don't have any mounted close up pics posted yet, you can clearly see (thanks to the distinctive sidewall) the set on my car in a video from this year's Woodward Dream Cruise:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ddxVpcWoao

[Farrar]

The Pentastar V6 block supposedly weighs about 20 pounds less than the GM V6 block. I'm not sure if they did this to save weight so much as to save $40 worth of aluminum per block... :P

[Nicholas R]

He did say forced induction is wasted on kjet, and he is right. With the stage 3 fuel delivery is a big bottleneck. The engine would need to be fully built up as well to handle the power, if we are talking about a 2.8. The 3.0 can handle these numbers, it has been done before with single and dual turbos. These obviously had full aftermarket EFI setups. But 300hp from a PRV is attainable. But not with k jet.

So you're saying only the 3.0L PRV is capable of 300hp, not the 2.85L stock motor? I'm still curious when this has been done. I really believe that if 300hp PRVs were available, a lot of cars would have them.

[LordFly]

So you're saying only the 3.0L PRV is capable of 300hp, not the 2.85L stock motor? I'm still curious when this has been done. I really believe that if 300hp PRVs were available, a lot of cars would have them.

It can be done, just takes $$$$$$$

[cybercusp]

Michael - that's AWESOME :thumbup:

Thanks for the pics! 8)

I'm curious as to when you procured your set? Did you have to wait for the fronts to be imported, or were they already warehoused here and ready for immediate delivery (as that's what Vredestein corporate had told me when I imported my set, which took nearly two months to finally arrive)? Did you order via the TireFactory.net/TiresByWeb.com? How do you like them / what are your impressions?

While I don't have any mounted close up pics posted yet, you can clearly see (thanks to the distinctive sidewall) the set on my car in a video from this year's Woodward Dream Cruise:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ddxVpcWoao

I picked them up from TiresByWeb for $562 including shipping via FedEx. I ordered by phone and he said they had sold several for DeLoreans recently. Shipping time took about 6 business days and included a tracking number.

The tire shop was impressed with the quality..tech said they were one of the truest tires he's ever mounted. They only took about 1 oz of total weight to balance, which may also be a testament to the OEM balance of the rims.

They are much quieter than the old Fuzions and the wheels turn much easier at slow speeds; turning out of the tire shop it felt like I had power steering assist. They are very quiet at highway speeds and handle bumps and high speed turns, such as cloverleafs, well. We had to guesstimate where to set the psi pressures assuming the factory recommendations may not be valid. I believe they're set around 30 psi.

I'm very happy with them and would re-purchase.

[NightFlyer]

I picked them up from TiresByWeb for $562 including shipping via FedEx. I ordered by phone and he said they had sold several for DeLoreans recently. Shipping time took about 6 business days and included a tracking number.

The tire shop was impressed with the quality..tech said they were one of the truest tires he's ever mounted. They only took about 1 oz of total weight to balance, which may also be a testament to the OEM balance of the rims.

They are much quieter than the old Fuzions and the wheels turn much easier at slow speeds; turning out of the tire shop it felt like I had power steering assist. They are very quiet at highway speeds and handle bumps and high speed turns, such as cloverleafs, well. We had to guesstimate where to set the psi pressures assuming the factory recommendations may not be valid. I believe they're set around 30 psi.

I'm very happy with them and would re-purchase.

That's fantastic! Vredestein corporate really came through for us and have lived up to the promises that they made to me.

Glad that my efforts are helping others owners to secure a top quality set of tires for their cars :yesss:

If a mod wanted to move the tire discussion to my tire reference thread, that would be great!

[Josh]

So you're saying only the 3.0L PRV is capable of 300hp, not the 2.85L stock motor? I'm still curious when this has been done. I really believe that if 300hp PRVs were available, a lot of cars would have them.

No i am not saying that only the 3.0L is capable of that. Just saying k jet is a major restriction as well as the internals. The 3.0 is much more feasible to do forced induction on as half of the EFI setup is existing and the internals can handle much more power. This is not to say a 2.8 cannot be built up to similar specs, if not better.

I do not understand why you are trying to disprove me?

Here are some examples: (not the magical 300hp figure, but damn close)

Martin's 2.5L
http://www.delorean.co.uk/delorean_performance.html

Gregg's 3.0L
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9DqNJSqTlg

These numbers have been acheived with a great deal of work, experimentation and determination of the owners. However something being done on one car is much different than being available to the masses. I think you can certainly understand this with your swap. Installing it in your car is one thing, but packaging all the parts together and explaining how they are installed and configured is a completely different endeavor. This is why alot of cars are not running these 250+ hp prvs.

[anywhen]

DPI was previewing a naturally aspirated PRV upgrade that included forged internals, 11.3:1 compression, redesigned heads, redesigned intake, their Stainless Works exhaust, and a fully mapped EFI system for just shy of $13k that was supposed to make up to 250whp......

Don't tease me Bro!

1.800.CALL.JOSH

[Dangermouse]

1.800.CALL.JOSH

:rofl:

[anywhen]

:rofl:

or 1.800.CALL.BILL

[anywhen]

I drove my DeLorean yesterday and tried to imagined what it would be like with a 3.6 Pentastar V6 swap. My four door wrangler weights in at 4,200 lbs approx. and with the traction control off will easily spin the tires. Bone stock with an automatic transmission 0-60 approx. 7 seconds. IMO that is more than the DeLorean was built to handle with-out an suspension and brake upgrade.

So I grabbed my August 2012 Motor Trend which tested six cars that claim to get 40 MPG. The results are as follows:


6th place Hyundai Elantra curb weight 2,765 lbs. 148 hp @ 6500 rpm 131 lb-ft @ 4700 rpm 8.9 seconds 0-60 16.7 sec 84.0 mph quarter mile
5th place Ford Focus SFE curb weight 2,962 lbs. 160 hp @ 6500 rpm 146 lb-ft @ 4450 rpm 8.1 seconds 0-60 16.2 sec 87.7 mph quarter mile
4th place Hondo Civic HF curb weight 2,667 lbs. 140 hp @ 6500 rpm 128 lb-ft @ 4300 rpm 8.4 seconds 0-60 16.4 sec 85.6 mph quarter mile
3rd place Volkswagen Jetta TDI (Diesel)
curb weight 3,197 lbs. 140 hp @ 4000 rpm 236 lb-ft @ 1750 rpm 8.1 seconds 0-60 16.3 sec 86.1 mph quarter mile
2nd place Chevrolet Cruze ECO
curb weight 3,029 lbs. 138 hp @ 4900 rpm 148 lb-ft @ 2500 rpm 8.1 seconds 0-60 16.2 sec 86.4 mph quarter mile
1st place Mazda3 curb weight 3,247 lbs. 154 hp @ 6000 rpm 148 lb-ft @ 4100 rpm 8.4 seconds 0-60 16.5 sec 86.5 mph quarter mile

Listen to this

http://rustyknuckles.blogspot.com/2011/05/motus-motorcycles-hits-barber-speedway.html

The DeLorean DMC12 weights approx. 2,800 lbs and the Motus swap would knock off 200 lbs.

Once Again, Somebody Stop Me.

http://thekneeslider.com/motus-kmv4-the-hot-rod-small-block/

[LordFly]

The DeLorean DMC12 weights approx. 2,800 lbs and the Motus swap would knock off 200 lbs.

Once Again, Somebody Stop Me.

http://thekneeslider.com/motus-kmv4-the-hot-rod-small-block/

Sure, it's nice to knock off 200lbs but the loss of 50ftlbs or torque should make up for that. Most people who do engine swaps are looking for power increases. For example, I've got a great interest in a J35A8 (290hp/260ftlbs). It might weigh a few more ounds, but it's roughly double the PRVs output, and since it would not come anywhere near doubling the weight of the car, it should go like hell (and still get 30MPG). The motus swap, in all honesty, sound like maybe at best you might break even.... after spending well over $10K.

I think everyone has already tried to stop you, it just isn't working. So I say, screw it, put the motus in and let us know how it goes :hihi2:

On a side note, every car listed will out-torque the motus, and you could probably buy any of those cars complete for less than the motus. In fact, I would swap any of those 6 engine into my DeLorean before the motus.

[opethmike]

Yep, torque is important, and as LordFly says, yeah, you'll drop like 200 pounds, but the severe loss of torque would completely mask that benefit. You need to consider torque per pound of vehicle weight. So let's go:

DeLorean weighs 2,712 pounds with the PRV.
The PRV produces 153 lb/ft of torque
So the stock configuration has 17.75 pounds of weight per lb/ft of torque

So if the Motus engine drops 200 pounds of weight:

DeLorean 2,512 pounds
The Motus produces 120 lb/ft of torque
This configuration has 20.93 pounds of weight per lb/ft of torque.

With the Motus engine, you are losing very significant amounts of torque. And with it being a very high revving engine, you would have to keep it revved up very high to even get stock PRV performance. So you really aren't gaining anything, and you are doing so at a very high expenditure of money.

You would get better, more streetable performance out of even a basic Stage II/Spec 2 upgrade.

[louielouie2000]

Like others have pointed out, torque is where the DeLorean really needs some help. Torque is the initial twisting power of an engine- basically, the ability of the engine to get the car moving from a dead stop. The sensation of being pushed into the back of your seat/your head being thrown back by acceleration is all torque. That's why diesel engines can have such low horsepower ratings, but pull massive loads. The DeLorean has enough of a problem getting moving from a stop- you truly don't want to go with an engine which has less torque than the PRV. Otherise, you'll feel like you have an even slower engine than the PRV. The low-torque Motus engine would struggle so hard to get the DeLorean moving because of it's low torque, that you'd never be able to build up enough RPM's to utilize the engine's high-end horsepower band. This is why motorcycle engines aren't used in cars; their lack of torque makes them useless in cars.

[opethmike]

Like others have pointed out, torque is where the DeLorean really needs some help. Torque is the initial twisting power of an engine- basically, the ability of the engine to get the car moving from a dead stop. The sensation of being pushed into the back of your seat/your head being thrown back by acceleration is all torque. That's why diesel engines can have such low horsepower ratings, but pull massive loads. The DeLorean has enough of a problem getting moving from a stop- you truly don't want to go with an engine which has less torque than the PRV. Otherise, you'll feel like you have an even slower engine than the PRV. The low-torque Motus engine would struggle so hard to get the DeLorean moving because of it's low torque, that you'd never be able to build up enough RPM's to utilize the engine's high-end horsepower band. This is why motorcycle engines aren't used in cars; their lack of torque makes them useless in cars.

*presses Like button*

[Nicholas R]

No i am not saying that only the 3.0L is capable of that. Just saying k jet is a major restriction as well as the internals. The 3.0 is much more feasible to do forced induction on as half of the EFI setup is existing and the internals can handle much more power. This is not to say a 2.8 cannot be built up to similar specs, if not better.

I do not understand why you are trying to disprove me?

Here are some examples: (not the magical 300hp figure, but damn close)

Martin's 2.5L
http://www.delorean.co.uk/delorean_performance.html

Gregg's 3.0L
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9DqNJSqTlg

These numbers have been acheived with a great deal of work, experimentation and determination of the owners. However something being done on one car is much different than being available to the masses. I think you can certainly understand this with your swap. Installing it in your car is one thing, but packaging all the parts together and explaining how they are installed and configured is a completely different endeavor. This is why alot of cars are not running these 250+ hp prvs.

I'm not trying to disprove you, I'm just trying to understand the basis. I certainly want there to be a high output PRV option, I'm just not in tune with what's available yet. Most high power PRV I've heard of was Ed G.'s turbocharged 3.0L before he did the Supra a engine swap. I don't remember the specifics but I know it was in excess of 200hp. Anyone remember the actual numbers? But that was a beast of a build with an incredible amount of custom fabrication and installation. Thus far there is still nothing available to drop in for this kind of power right? At least not without an extremely large amount of custom work.

[anywhen]

http://www.katechengines.com/engineering/katech-v4/

Which Modern Engine Would DeLorean Pick.

I have never heard anyone say that they like the way a DeLorean handles. The one and only time I did a donut in a dirt parking lot with my car, I could not believe how quick the car spun around. I almost got two donuts for the price of one. Losing weight off he rear of the DeLorean would make the car more fun to drive.

Torque. A V-6 has more torque than a V-4 and Yes, I drive a Ford F-150, I know what torque is. The PRV is all about torque and I short shift into 2nd gear all the time. Revving an engine is also fun. The DeLorean was originally a high gas mileage car for it's time and it would never keep up with a 911 on the racetrack. In the history of the automobiles, there has never been a car that needs a new engine more than our beloved DMC-12. If you research my choice for the best engine swap, you would see that this Katech V-4 engine is capable of much more. The new spec's have it at 146 ft/lbs at 5200 rpms. Katech, the company that makes this engine, also makes Corvette Racing engines. This engine could be bored-out with a different cam to give it more low end torque.

I know that my money would be spent better buying a Motus motorcycle to enjoy, than swapping the engine in my car.

If I were to do a swap, this V-4 powerhouse would be my first choice. It is a Cool Engine for a Super Cool Car. You can have you 250 horsepower. I want to go cruising in my D.

[opethmike]

22919

[anywhen]

Opethmike

Is this your car. Looks interesting. 1.8 liter. Wow!!http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/2005-lotus-elise

[opethmike]

Yes, I have an Elise.

[LordFly]

22919

+1

[Coletrain]

I think for our swap we're gonna go with a direct-injection 3.6 from the new Camaro - weighs about 20 pounds more than the PRV but is almost identical dimensionally. 324 HP mated to a G50 transaxle could be exciting in a DMC.

[anywhen]

Still no choice for the new DeLorean engine. So Sad!!! I was hoping for a factory supported engine swap. Just put a high revving 4 cylinder in it and get the show on the road.

[DrJeff]

If JZD wasn't limited to picking a modern engine, he probably would have selected an electric motor.

[Josh]

I'm not trying to disprove you, I'm just trying to understand the basis. I certainly want there to be a high output PRV option, I'm just not in tune with what's available yet. Most high power PRV I've heard of was Ed G.'s turbocharged 3.0L before he did the Supra a engine swap. I don't remember the specifics but I know it was in excess of 200hp. Anyone remember the actual numbers? But that was a beast of a build with an incredible amount of custom fabrication and installation. Thus far there is still nothing available to drop in for this kind of power right? At least not without an extremely large amount of custom work.

Lol, look at this stroll down memory lane. How young and naive I was. Sorry nick!

[Josh]

Still no choice for the new DeLorean engine. So Sad!!! I was hoping for a factory supported engine swap. Just put a high revving 4 cylinder in it and get the show on the road.

Already in the works!

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?15075-Wreck-of-17158-4-cylinder-turbo-swap

[Nicholas R]

Lol, look at this stroll down memory lane. How young and naive I was. Sorry nick!

Haha! No problem; I was a bit pissy there too. I remember being so disenchanted with the PRV at that point after being underwhelmed by the Stage III. You will always will be far more knowledgeable on the 2.8L and 3.0L PRV than me. All good though; clearly you found your way to the correct engine platform in the end :wink::rofl::burnout:

[anywhen]

Mr. John DeLorean's planned development of a twin turbo v-6 was ahead of it's time. That engine setup is now the rage. Wish the DeLorean Motor Company would step their game up and do what they say they are going to do.

[Nuclearbacon]

My Subaru 2.0 flat 4 with direct injection and a twin scroll turbocharger would be an awesome choice!

242hp/219lbft

Now building on that, how about for the DeLorean powered by a 2.5l direct injected twin scroll twin turbo flat 4 matched with all wheel drive!!?!?

Eh? Eh? Eh?

This is my dream. You all know now.

[johnyrottin]

I was thinking for a modern D engine they would use something smooth and silky, bullet proof, high HP with expandable options. It would need to be fuel efficient but with enough grunt to be a GT car. How about the venerable 3800 series III supercharged motors?

[Timeless]

I was thinking for a modern D engine they would use something smooth and silky, bullet proof, high HP with expandable options. It would need to be fuel efficient but with enough grunt to be a GT car. How about the venerable 3800 series III supercharged motors?
Not bad except for the intake gasket leak issues. (resolved now?) It would be nice to have an engine/trans combo that would talk to each other and not require a MS or other aftermarket EFI system.

[BLWNAWY]

Going back to the original question posed by this thread, I can tell you one he did consider. Back in the late '90s I got a phone call from Gordon Novell, an occasional parts customer, who wanted to discuss the success of my supercharged Chevy 4.3 V6 swap. He said DeLorean, who was supposedly in the room with him, was considering something similar and wanted to know my impressions. While I never had the opportunity to have it dyno'd, I estimated the HP at around 300, with similar torque. I know it was enough to twist off the trans input shaft :). I never heard any more from them. Check out this article and the related comments: https://www.hemmings.com/blog/index.php/2016/10/28/firestar-500-the-de-lorean-follow-up-that-delorean-disowned/comment-page-1/#comment-10146021

[anywhen]

What is the latest update from DMC?

[Timeless]

What is the latest update from DMC?
Possibly available by 2021.

[anywhen]

One day "in the near future", my "Slippery When Wet" DeLorean will have a new Honda K 24

Somebody stop Me!!

[Timeless]

One day "in the near future", my "Slippery When Wet" DeLorean will have a new Honda K 24

Somebody stop Me!!
https://youtu.be/DQBBufJzyqE?si=fBdwNz1L1EiogwQ6