Door/Roof Alignment

[yuiou]

Hi,

The pass side door "pops" up a bit from the roofline, also when opening the door I hear a little pop/crack.

Any suggestions on how to align the door so it's on the same level as the roof line?

Here's a pic of it:
http://i39.tinypic.com/i1e3hg.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/dpzmf6.jpg

Thanks.

[krs09]

I have to same exact problem on both doors. Mine rub on the T-panel a bit when opening the doors and there is a pretty big gap between the top of the windshield and the door. I did bolt the roof cage down (there was a large gap) and did not help. I will be watching this thread closely

[David T]

I have to same exact problem on both doors. Mine rub on the T-panel a bit when opening the doors and there is a pretty big gap between the top of the windshield and the door. I did bolt the roof cage down (there was a large gap) and did not help. I will be watching this thread closely

Remove the Tee panel. Replace the foam underneath so that it is held up. When you reinstall the Tee roof make sure you center it so the gap at the top of each door is equal. It may still rub.

[Josh]

David, I don't think the T Panel is the issue here, judging by the pictures.

Your doors seem slightly bend, it occurs on some cars. The door alignment is a major issue as a result, and your doors are pushed upwards. This is why they do not line up with the header panel. You could attempt to adjust the doors by adjusting the hinge mounting and striker pin alignment, but his is a big job and may not yield a positive result.

[yuiou]

Here is another pic. You guys really think the door is bent?

http://i39.tinypic.com/30krqfc.jpg

[Rich]

Rear of doors are at correct height? Looks like it.

Fronts of doors meet top of fender and fender beltline/rubstrip at correct height? Looks like it.

Front of both doors do not line up well with the windshield header? Last photo seems to show this, although the left one is a bit better aligned.

So 3 more questions:
1. When did this windshield-header-to-top-of-door problem crop up?
2. Do the doors line up with the latch strike pins? Doors latch and unlatch correctly?
3. Was the windshield ever (incorrectly) replaced?

A little weird that both doors would do this which suggests it's not the doors....see #3

[Josh]

I could very well be wrong, so take that into consideration.

Rich, what is the difference between a proper and improper windshield installation? The adhesive around my windshield has failed (not holding window on anymore) and my passenger door is being quite a pain to line up.

[ALEXAKOS]

The doors and the hinges have a few millimeters of play.
Try to loosen all 4 bolts (remove strut and bar prior to that) and see if there is any room of improvement there.
My bet is there is and you may gain some better results like that!

[Byrne H&A]

Remove both door studs and hold the door closed manually to determine that studs have not moved. If ok, would remove torsion bar and align the hinge, again with door studs removed. Byrne

[David T]

Remove both door studs and hold the door closed manually to determine that studs have not moved. If ok, would remove torsion bar and align the hinge, again with door studs removed. Byrne

Unless someone already messed with the door adjustments (and that would be pretty obvious) DO NOT touch them! Try what I suggested first before ruining the door adjustments. It would be strange for both doors to be bent the same way. My suggestion is a whole lot easier to do too. Very common for the foam under the Tee roof to disintegrate and that is what holds up the front end.

[krs09]

Remove the Tee panel. Replace the foam underneath so that it is held up. When you reinstall the Tee roof make sure you center it so the gap at the top of each door is equal. It may still rub.

When I took the T panel off I had no foam, just a ton of black weather sealant (there was a water leak) under there. So I removed as much as I could and replaced it with just enough to keep the water out. When I reinstalled the T panel, the front piece that slides under the black finishing piece (on top of the windshield) fit real nice. What I did notice is a filler piece stuck under the T panel but it did look factory. The panel was hard to remove because the sealant was holding the panel down, I had to get a very long flat head screw driver to pry it up. Maybe the PO did that to HOLD the piece down so that it didnt interfere with the doors. Dunno?

[DMCMW Dave]

I agree - the first thing to do is NOT to screw with the door hinges. It is likely that the doors are fine, but both the t-panel AND the black windshield header strip are installed incorrectly. The header has slotted holes for the screws, loosen the screws (hidden under weatherstrip glue) and lift the header to the height of the door edge. Then take off the T-panel and build it up with 2-sided tape (NOT RTV) to the height you need.

If the doors are opening and closing correctly, and not leaking a ton of water through the inner seals, they are not the problem.

[SS Spoiler]

I love it when the "Daves" jump in to deliver the last word.

[Rich]

Rich, what is the difference between a proper and improper windshield installation? The adhesive around my windshield has failed (not holding window on anymore) and my passenger door is being quite a pain to line up.

Improper windshield (WS) installation means in this case that the frame around the WS was not correctly supported during the WS installation such that the upper corners of the frame moved downward, away from the glass or otherwise got out of position before the glass sealant cured. Other threads cover that.

I'm not sure this would cause a door alignment problem to the fenders and strikers. It would probably cause the upper frame of the windshield to droop a bit, which is why I brought it up relative to the original posting. This is not taken from direct experience, only from what I think I've seen in this forum so if anybody wants to elaborate for Josh please chime in.

About the unfortunate condition you report and I put in boldface above: I will say that any windshield on any car that is not attached to the windshield frame properly is a SAFETY CONCERN. The windshield is meant to be secured fully to the frame for two reasons:

1. To keep it from coming loose from the car at any time, like while driving at high speeds or on bumpy roads.
2. To keep you and your passenger from leaving the passenger compartment in case of a crash.

Recommend that you not drive the car until you remove and reattach the existing WS or you replace it. Or get it to a Safelite auto glass shop for a professional opinion. Patching the adhesive with the WS in place won't give you the bondline strength you need.

[Josh]

Improper windshield (WS) installation means in this case that the frame around the WS was not correctly supported during the WS installation such that the upper corners of the frame moved downward, away from the glass or otherwise got out of position before the glass sealant cured. Other threads cover that.

I'm not sure this would cause a door alignment problem to the fenders and strikers. It would probably cause the upper frame of the windshield to droop a bit, which is why I brought it up relative to the original posting. This is not taken from direct experience, only from what I think I've seen in this forum so if anybody wants to elaborate for Josh please chime in.

About the unfortunate condition you report and I put in boldface above: I will say that any windshield on any car that is not attached to the windshield frame properly is a SAFETY CONCERN. The windshield is meant to be secured fully to the frame for two reasons:

1. To keep it from coming loose from the car at any time, like while driving at high speeds or on bumpy roads.
2. To keep you and your passenger from leaving the passenger compartment in case of a crash.

Recommend that you not drive the car until you remove and reattach the existing WS or you replace it. Or get it to a Safelite auto glass shop for a professional opinion. Patching the adhesive with the WS in place won't give you the bondline strength you need.

Thanks for the information.
About your cautionary warning, take a look at my build thread, it is fairly obvious I am not driving my car :P

[David T]

Thanks for the information.
About your cautionary warning, take a look at my build thread, it is fairly obvious I am not driving my car :P

I never heard that one of the purposes of the windscreen is to retain the occupants in the case of a crash. I would hope they would be wearing their safety restraints, that is what THEY are for! Most cars do not depend on the windscreen for structural integrity, the Delorean does. Since you mention you have gobs of RTV all over, it is obvious someone has been tinkering. Hopefully they did not tinker with the doors! All that RTV probably means they were trying to 'fix" a water leak. usually doesn't work. If the windscreen is leaking the best way to fix it is to remove it and try to reinstall it again, only properly. Best done by a professional or it could leak! BTW, I have never heard of a windscreen coming loose while driving and falling off a car. I HAVE heard of rear windows getting sucked out and departing the car (not Deloreans, usually hatchbacks in the hot sun) and depositing your luggage all over the road.

[Rich]

A. I never heard that one of the purposes of the windscreen is to retain the occupants in the case of a crash.... B. If the windscreen is leaking the best way to fix it is to remove it and try to reinstall it again, only properly. Best done by a professional or it could leak!...C. BTW, I have never heard of a windscreen coming loose while driving and falling off a car.

Thanks for those good points. Took the liberty of labeling some of them above for comments below.

A. Yes, occupants should always be properly belted but they aren't so there's a federal safety rule regarding windscreen retention. Here is where you can find out more about one of the many functions of a car's windscreen per the US authority on such matters, the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards:


"FMVSS Standard 571.212; Windshield Mounting.

Scope. This standard establishes windshield retention requirements for motor vehicles during crashes.
Purpose. The purpose of this standard is to reduce crash injuries and fatalities by providing for retention of the vehicle windshield during a crash, thereby utilizing fully the penetration-resistance and injury-avoidance properties of the windshield glazing material and preventing the ejection of occupants from the vehicle."

Full text is HERE (http://glasslinks.com/pdf/fmvss212.pdf)


It's interesting how much engineering there is in a windshield system.

B. Agree. As noted.

C. No, I haven't heard of a WS coming off a car under way, either. But if the owner doesn't want to glue it back on for any other reason this one ought to do it. Hyperbolic suggestion on my part.

Glad to know the car isn't going anywhere anytime soon and advising against driving it doesn't matter for now.

[David T]

Thanks for those good points. Took the liberty of labeling some of them above for comments below.

A. Yes, occupants should always be properly belted but they aren't so there's a federal safety rule regarding windscreen retention. Here is where you can find out more about one of the many functions of a car's windscreen per the US authority on such matters, the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards:


"FMVSS Standard 571.212; Windshield Mounting.

Scope. This standard establishes windshield retention requirements for motor vehicles during crashes.
Purpose. The purpose of this standard is to reduce crash injuries and fatalities by providing for retention of the vehicle windshield during a crash, thereby utilizing fully the penetration-resistance and injury-avoidance properties of the windshield glazing material and preventing the ejection of occupants from the vehicle."

Full text is HERE (http://glasslinks.com/pdf/fmvss212.pdf)


It's interesting how much engineering there is in a windshield system.

B. Agree. As noted.

C. No, I haven't heard of a WS coming off a car under way, either. But if the owner doesn't want to glue it back on for any other reason this one ought to do it. Hyperbolic suggestion on my part.

Glad to know the car isn't going anywhere anytime soon and advising against driving it doesn't matter for now.

Amazing what some bureaucrats came come up with! If you are relying on the windscreen to keep you from getting ejected from the car I guess having pieces of safety glass tediously removed from your scalp is just all part of the safety equation! I know the VW bug and the Tucker boasted the glass was held in with rubber strips so in the event of a crash you would not break the glass, it would pop out. There are some ugly pictures of people with their heads stuck popping through the windshield. They won't show the ones where the person got decapitated. Doesn't happen so much anymore with airbags and the high compliance of people using seat/lap belts. Now with most occupants restrained in the cabin what they see most often is protrusion into the cabin and crush injuries or blunt force trauma from bouncing around inside. Anyway back to the topic at hand. The windscreen needs to be properly installed. If you do not have experience at doing it, and the proper tools and supplies, installation is best left to professionals. That can be difficult. Many shops will only install glass that they provide. You might have to do some searching to find a shop that will install your glass. Some Safelite shops will work with you but you must tell them up front and accept that they will not warranty against cracks or leaks. Maybe if you get the shop to order the glass from your favorite vendor, that way they can say they "supplied" it? Many shops like to "double bang" the customer. They charge list price on the parts and they make money on the installation. I had this argument many times. The best come-back line was "You don't bring a steak in to your favorite restaurant and ask the chef to cook it for you, Do you?" If the parts don't fit the shop has to eat the part and get the right one and the extra labor to R & R the bad part. If you bring in a part and it doesn't fit it is not fair to ask the shop to make it right at their expense.

[yuiou]

Thanks for all the help guys.

It looks the T panel and windshield header are the problem.

Thanks.

[krs09]

Some pics of my issue.....2264222643


My T panel and winshield header look correct. The PO only slid in 2 of the 4 clips of the header (leaving the center 2 unclipped) into the windshield base. Looks like he did that to try to correct the issue but by doing that you could see a light gap between the 2 pieces

[virtualchuck]

Do "The Daves" recommend a certain type/thickness foam tape? I bought some common 3M type foam tape at AZ, it just looked a little thin compared to the old stuff?

Chuck

[David T]

Do "The Daves" recommend a certain foam tape? I found some 3M stuff at AZ, it just looked a little thin compared to the old stuff?

Chuck

If the stuff you are using seems too thin just double it up.

[jawn101]

This is something that has bugged me since I first got my car too. The T-panel "sinks" a bit in the center - alignment is good to the rear quarters and at the windshield header panel, but the doors seem to be a bit above the panel in the dead center. When I pulled the panel off to do my roof box last year, it didn't appear that it had ever been removed before and the big foam pad underneath was in good shape. Is the foam tape method the "Daves approved" way to get that corrected?