Winter prep

[aipri]

So my first winter with my D is rapidly approaching, and while the weather here in NJ has been pretty forgiving so far, I know it won't last. Right now I drive the car a few times a week, but once the salt/snow/ice shows up that's over. My question is, what is the optimum fuel level if I won't be driving it much during the winter? I plan to take it out at least once a month, is that enough? I've read some people syphon fuel out, not sure I want to do all that. Also any other things I should be prepping for? The car won't be in storage or anything like that, just sitting in my garage, I will probably even start it up every week as well.

[opethmike]

So my first winter with my D is rapidly approaching, and while the weather here in NJ has been pretty forgiving so far, I know it won't last. Right now I drive the car a few times a week, but once the salt/snow/ice shows up that's over. My question is, what is the optimum fuel level if I won't be driving it much during the winter? I plan to take it out at least once a month, is that enough? I've read some people syphon fuel out, not sure I want to do all that. Also any other things I should be prepping for? The car won't be in storage or anything like that, just sitting in my garage, I will probably even start it up every week as well.


What I do:

I run the fuel as low as possible. Then I put in fuel stabilizer.
I change the oil.
I wash the exterior.
I vacuum and clean the interior.
I remove the battery.
I cover it with a car cover.
I leave it completely alone until the spring. It is not good to start the car periodically.

I've used this exact method for all of my cars for many years with zero issues.

[D Knight]

Run down the fuel. Then put in enough stabilizer for a full tank. Run the car some more to get it into the fuel system. Fill the tank. If you leave it low, there is a lot of air in the tank. That is what makes the fuel evaporate. The more fuel, the less air. I've done this to my Trans Ams for over 15 years and they have always started come spring. Also change the oil to get the byproducts of combustion out. That stuff turns to an acid if left alone. Which will start to degrade your engine bearings.


-D Knight-

[David T]

What I do:

I run the fuel as low as possible. Then I put in fuel stabilizer.
I change the oil.
I wash the exterior.
I vacuum and clean the interior.
I remove the battery.
I cover it with a car cover.
I leave it completely alone until the spring. It is not good to start the car periodically.

I've used this exact method for all of my cars for many years with zero issues.

With today's fuel the best advice, if the car is not going to be used, is to remove as much of the fuel as you can. The battery should also be removed. It is not good to start the car up during storage. Cleaning it is nice but figure you will have to clean it again anyway in the spring. You should remove anything you can from the car. Preferably the car should be stored inside on pavement (not dirt) and covered. Make sure the insurance is paid up and all of the keys and paperwork are in a safe place. There is controversy over jacking the car up or just overpressurizing the tires. I dislike fuel stabilizer because when you do want to start the car up the last thing you want is non-volatile fuel. Fresh, VOLATILE fuel is what you want and you can put it in in the spring. Also gives you a chance to clean the tank and inspect the parts inside. It is also a good idea to place some mothballs under (NOT in) the car to keep critters from going inside and making it home. Keep the battery on a piece of wood and where it won't freeze and trickle charge it for 1 day every month.

[aipri]

Ok so we have 2 votes for low fuel, 1 vote for more fuel. 2 votes for fuel stabilizer and 1 against. Everyone agrees to take the battery out. For the record going by the average NJ winter, I will probably be able to continue sporadically driving the car until probably late November, possibly December. I should be able to resume in late March/April. So we are looking at about 3 months. So it's actually better to NOT start up the car during that period? Never knew that, I had always heard to drive the car once a month to make sure the fuel isn't sitting. That was basically my method with my last project car, but it was a 2001 Mitsubishi, a far cry from the Delorean.

[JRNY13]

I put about 1,500 miles on my D this season with fresh oil at the beginning. Do you think it's still a good idea to change the oil before the winter with so few miles?



Run down the fuel. Then put in enough stabilizer for a full tank. Run the car some more to get it into the fuel system. Fill the tank. If you leave it low, there is a lot of air in the tank. That is what makes the fuel evaporate. The more fuel, the less air. I've done this to my Trans Ams for over 15 years and they have always started come spring. Also change the oil to get the byproducts of combustion out. That stuff turns to an acid if left alone. Which will start to degrade your engine bearings.


-D Knight-

[David T]

I put about 1,500 miles on my D this season with fresh oil at the beginning. Do you think it's still a good idea to change the oil before the winter with so few miles?

I like to change the fluids AFTER storage as long as the storage period was not that long. The catch is, when you store the car, you can never know exactly how long that storage period can be. You expect to take the car out in the spring but maybe you have to travel or move or maybe the car won't start so you just let it sit. One year becomes 10 and before you know it you have to shovel the old fuel out. Old fuel is a real killer, I don't care how much stabilizer you put in. Next up is the brake fluid. After a few years it becomes corrosive and destroys the brake and clutch systems. Finally the coolant goes bad and eats up the insides of the motor and radiator. Rare to see the oil attacking the internals of the motor. In fact, I have started up motors that have sat for years on the old stuff that was in them. As soon as I get them warmed up I dump the old oil out.

[LordFly]

Ok so we have 2 votes for low fuel, 1 vote for more fuel. 2 votes for fuel stabilizer and 1 against.

I'm in the same boat as you, first winter with the D. I've always heard as little fuel as possible. Modern fuel that is a certain percent ethanol isn't good for most of the rubber parts in the D's fuel system. If you can find a gas station that is 100% ethanol free, I would say fill the tank. Otherwise empty is probably better.

The big problem with empty is that is leaves a lot of air in the tank, which over the winter has a lot of time to condensate, so you end up with water in the tank. This is where fuel stabilizer comes in. But fuel stabilizer isn't good for the rubber bits either.... So my opinion is a full tank of ethanol free. Failing that, empty tank of unstabilized. I would rather run water through the fuel system for a day or two in the spring than rot out the rubber parts.

[LordFly]

Rare to see the oil attacking the internals of the motor.

I've actually heard just the opposite numerous times. At least for motorcycles. I'd always been told to change the oil before winter storage because used motor oil can actually pit metal parts over time. I know motorcycles oils have a lot of additives because the tranny uses the same oil, so maybe it doesn't apply. But I was planning to do an oil change before storage as well...

[aipri]

Good info guys thank you, I will try to see if I can find any gas stations that use ethanol free gas.

[aipri]

So my opinion is a full tank of ethanol free.

What's sad is I just checked and there are no gas stations selling ethanol free gas in pretty much the entire state of NJ. So yeah, that option is out!

[Mark D]

What I do:

I run the fuel as low as possible. Then I put in fuel stabilizer.
I change the oil.
I wash the exterior.
I vacuum and clean the interior.
I remove the battery.
I cover it with a car cover.
I leave it completely alone until the spring. It is not good to start the car periodically.

I've used this exact method for all of my cars for many years with zero issues.

This is almost identical what I do as well. On my last tank of fuel for the season I'll add stabilizer and then run the tank down to almost empty. I like to run the engine for while after I put the stabilizer in to get it dispersed into the rest of the fuel system. Then I change the oil and do not start it again until spring.

I have done the 'tank full' method as well, but I've switched over to the 'tank empty' crowd. In the spring I put 5 gallons of fresh gas in the tank before attempting to start it, then drive to the nearby gas station and fill it the rest of the way up. One could argue that storing the tank empty allows for more condensation build up, but I'd argue that a tank full tank of ethanol blend gas will actually pull more water into the tank than a near empty tank since there is a greater volume of ethanol present and ethanol is hygroscopic.

But to complicate the arguement further, I typically run non-ethanol gas. With no ethanol present to absorb water you could argue that a full tank of pure gasoline is best. The counter arguement to that is that often times planned winter storage can turn into several years of storage if projects end up taking longer than planned. I'd rather have a nearly empty tank that I can drain and add fresh gas rather than a full tank of bad fuel to dispose of.

[Cory W]

In my neck of the woods, many stations show their ethanol content on the pumps. 91 octane/premium contains no ethanol. I started running premium in late September, letting my fuel light come on before gassing up the first time.

Personally, I store my car in a garage, with as little fuel as I can manage while still letting it back down the relatively step driveway where I keep it. The only year I had more than about 1/8 tank was the only year I had trouble with the car when I first brought it out. Admittedly, that was also 87 octane, with up to 10% ethanol. It was our first winter together. Let's call it a learning curve and move on.

I put in fresh 10W30 once parked. The AGM battery is put on a wooden shelf in the temperature controlled workshop attached to the house, and it is trickle charged occasionally through the winter.

As this garage is in a wooded area, I put a little pie plate of mothballs both in front of and behind each wheel.

A fresh box of Bounce dryer sheets then gives to the cause; a couple underhood, one in each footwell, two in the fuse.relay panel. a couple on the rear package tray carpet, a few on top of the engine (especially near the bulkhead connectors) and one stuffed in each tailpipe. the car then get covered up and left until I need to move it or the season begins.

Growing up, we had a motorhome that occupied this same garage. It's long gone, unfortunately. Every single year, chewed wire had to be tracked down and repaired before we were able to move it for the season. As my care of this car enters its sixth winter, I have yet to have any rodent activity anywhere in my car. That speaks volumes to me that what I'm doing is working.

[David T]

What's sad is I just checked and there are no gas stations selling ethanol free gas in pretty much the entire state of NJ. So yeah, that option is out!

If you can get to a local airport they sell 100 LL and it doesn't have any Ethanol but it isn't the best thing for your catalytic convertor. The only other place is maybe Englishtown or another racetrack selling CAM 2. I am not sure but I don't think there are ANY gas stations in NJ selling non-Ethanol blended gas anymore. Maybe head over to PA for some. What a shame, people are starving in this world and we are growing corn to stick in our gas tanks. And the farmers are getting subsidized to do it by our Federal Government.

[virtualchuck]

If you can get to a local airport they sell 100 LL and it doesn't have any Ethanol but it isn't the best thing for your catalytic convertor. The only other place is maybe Englishtown or another racetrack selling CAM 2. I am not sure but I don't think there are ANY gas stations in NJ selling non-Ethanol blended gas anymore. Maybe head over to PA for some. What a shame, people are starving in this world and we are growing corn to stick in our gas tanks. And the farmers are getting subsidized to do it by our Federal Government.

+1! I wish more people understood that about ethanol!

Chuck

[valdez]

Here is what you do with any car if it is only being taken off the road for a couple months.

1. Winter washer fluid so you don't crack you bottle.
2. If not starting it disconnect battery.
3. Don't worry about it.

Anything else is being paranoid. Fuel should not be an issue after that short a period. Many people only gas their cars once a year if it is a Sunday driver.

[Mark D]

Here is what you do with any car if it is only being taken off the road for a couple months.

1. Winter washer fluid so you don't crack you bottle.
2. If not starting it disconnect battery.
3. Don't worry about it.

Anything else is being paranoid. Fuel should not be an issue after that short a period. Many people only gas their cars once a year if it is a Sunday driver.

Winter here lasts for around 5 months, far exceeding the shelf life of gasoline blended with ethanol.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html

[aipri]

If you can get to a local airport they sell 100 LL and it doesn't have any Ethanol but it isn't the best thing for your catalytic convertor. The only other place is maybe Englishtown or another racetrack selling CAM 2. I am not sure but I don't think there are ANY gas stations in NJ selling non-Ethanol blended gas anymore. Maybe head over to PA for some. What a shame, people are starving in this world and we are growing corn to stick in our gas tanks. And the farmers are getting subsidized to do it by our Federal Government.

Yeah it looks like there might be one place in Philly, but it's still a bit of a trip. I agree with you 100%. I like corn, but not that much.

[micmak]

So my first winter with my D is rapidly approaching, and while the weather here in NJ has been pretty forgiving so far, I know it won't last. Right now I drive the car a few times a week, but once the salt/snow/ice shows up that's over. My question is, what is the optimum fuel level if I won't be driving it much during the winter? I plan to take it out at least once a month, is that enough? I've read some people syphon fuel out, not sure I want to do all that. Also any other things I should be prepping for? The car won't be in storage or anything like that, just sitting in my garage, I will probably even start it up every week as well.

This is one of those subjects that always gets opposing views and everyone seems to think that his methods are the best. At various times over the years, I have tried almost empty tanks and almost full tanks of gas. I have used octane boost to try to extend the life of the gas. I have tried stabilizer to try to extend its life. I have removed wheels and sat the cars on jack stands. I have removed batteries. I have been through more than 20 winters in Toronto with classic cars, and I have never had any negative impact as a result of any of the above mentioned methods.
However, what I do nowadays (as of 7 or 8 years ago) is, pump the tires to about 40 psi, leave the gas tank about ½ full, use stabilizer and, as Cory said, use lots and lots of moth balls all over the floor, around the engine, in the trunk, and use bounce sheets inside the car. I get lots of mice too. During the Winter, I will do what some people recommend and at the same time other people absolutely HATE: I start the cars! I start them and I let them get up to normal running temperature. I might have them running for over a ½ hour on a Winter’s day when it is above zero Celsius. I will move them back or forward a few feet to give the tires a different resting spot. I never remove the batteries any more. By starting the cars every 5 or 6 weeks, it seems to prevent them from going dead. Some people say I am doing it all wrong. Some people say it is ok to do what I do. Each to his own, I guess. Bottom line is I never have any issues in the Springtime. One thing I do when Spring arrives is I will top up with good high octane gas like Sunoco 94, and maybe throw in a bottle of octane boost if I have it lying around. I know some people here will say I am crazy and others will say I am right. Which in my mind really goes to demonstrate that there is no real right or wrong way to “store” a car for the Winter.

......Mike......

[David T]

This is one of those subjects that always gets opposing views and everyone seems to think that his methods are the best. At various times over the years, I have tried almost empty tanks and almost full tanks of gas. I have used octane boost to try to extend the life of the gas. I have tried stabilizer to try to extend its life. I have removed wheels and sat the cars on jack stands. I have removed batteries. I have been through more than 20 winters in Toronto with classic cars, and I have never had any negative impact as a result of any of the above mentioned methods.
However, what I do nowadays (as of 7 or 8 years ago) is, pump the tires to about 40 psi, leave the gas tank about ½ full, use stabilizer and, as Cory said, use lots and lots of moth balls all over the floor, around the engine, in the trunk, and use bounce sheets inside the car. I get lots of mice too. During the Winter, I will do what some people recommend and at the same time other people absolutely HATE: I start the cars! I start them and I let them get up to normal running temperature. I might have them running for over a ½ hour on a Winter’s day when it is above zero Celsius. I will move them back or forward a few feet to give the tires a different resting spot. I never remove the batteries any more. By starting the cars every 5 or 6 weeks, it seems to prevent them from going dead. Some people say I am doing it all wrong. Some people say it is ok to do what I do. Each to his own, I guess. Bottom line is I never have any issues in the Springtime. One thing I do when Spring arrives is I will top up with good high octane gas like Sunoco 94, and maybe throw in a bottle of octane boost if I have it lying around. I know some people here will say I am crazy and others will say I am right. Which in my mind really goes to demonstrate that there is no real right or wrong way to “store” a car for the Winter.

......Mike......

If the car is only being "stored" for less than a year, pretty much any way you do it can be OK. The main problem with this is the length of time. The longer the car is stored the more important the manner it is prepped in becomes. I speak from the prospective of coming upon cars that were "stored" (if you call it that) for longer periods of time. In just about every case it was never intended to be "stored" for that long a time. From what I have seen it doesn't take all that much more time (or money) to prepare the car for an extended period of storage because once it is put into long term storage no one EVER tries to do any more to protect it than whatever was done in the first place. The battery is the first thing to die. Next comes fuel, brake/clutch fluid, and then coolant. Along the way the struts die, the rubber parts like door seals, brake hoses, etc die and so on. Maybe something falls on the car or critters eat the wiring. Some cars get flooded. Glass gets broken. Keys and paperwork gets lost. Tires get old. The headliners fall. Eventually all you have left is a project that happens to look like a car. I just did a deal where a local owner had 3 cars and had parted out a 4th. None were runners and all needed A LOT! In his eyes they were beautiful. I saw 3 projects and a lot of parts that were not worth all that much. None were prepped for storage and they had sat for years. Everyone will find out the whole story at DCS 2014. The moral is prep the car as if you are Doc and the car is going to sit for a long time and it will be fine when you wake it up. No matter is it is just over a winter or it is several years.

[john 05141]

I guess that the situation is different to anyone else, depending on which climate you live and where you store the car.
I am going into my 7th year of DeLorean owenship and I am not a technical guy.

My garage in in the house, were 2 daily drivers are also parked, so even in the worst of the winter the temperature inside is a nice 15°C or 60°F because the heating system is nearby and the garage is well insulated.

But I have also wondered every time what to do with gas. Here is what I do;

-Clean the car inside and out
-Especially clean the wheel becasue brake dust eats into the paint
-remove the footwell carpets (allows better breathing of the carpet underneath)
-keys and paperwork stores away safely
-tank at max 1/4 (less weight on the suspension)
-remove spare tire (less weight again)
-open the windows (allows to vent the interior)
-cover the car up.
-battery stays inside but I have a battery key
-remove CD or Stick and radio cover

After 3 months or 1/2 the winter when the roads are certainly free of salt (some ice free days followed by some good rain) I take the car out once for a half hour drive on the highway.
Pass via a gas station and add fresh gas to 1/2 full

at the end of the winter I fill the tank up with fresh gas, I never used stabilizer, car is serviced right after the winter and before any trip is made.
No increase in the tires, but once a week I push the car forward 1/2 feet, and after so many weeks back to the first position and over again to prevent flat spots
Worked very good for me in the cold and humid Belgian climate.

Unfortunatemy I drove the car only a few times this past season (except the trip to Sweden) Hope to do better next year as I say every winter.
I do take care of the winter jobs right away at the start of the winter.

Jan

[aipri]

Thanks for all of the input everyone. I think I am going to go the empty tank method, my tank is currently at almost 1/4 so I will probably drive it a few more short times and then just leave it there.

[valdez]

Winter here lasts for around 5 months, far exceeding the shelf life of gasoline blended with ethanol.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html

5 months is nothing.

I just fired up a pickup that was sitting at least 4 years with old gas, unprotected out in the elements, and winters way worse than any where in the US. All that was needed was a new battery and tires. Ran fine with zero difference in performance after putting in a fresh tank of fuel.

These things have old Volvo engines in them, they are not race cars that need rocket fuel and a pit crew with laptops to keep them running.

If not being used at all I'd be more concerned storing a vehicle in a summer climate over winter climate.
Winter has less moisture/humidity, less bugs and other critters, less sun, and less vandals.
If you are using the vehicle, winter is definitely harsher on it, but the opposite is true if storing it.

[GS450-Junkie]

Just a thought on where you park the car. The car guys at work all prefer to NOT park on a concrete slab since concrete holds moisture and can "rot" your car from underneath. They all prefer to park on a floor that is dirt or gravel. They say if you must park on concrete, put a tarp or canvas down first. Of course, this may be the case if you needed to store the car for a really long time, say 10 years or so. A couple of these guys own 100+ collector cars so I'm guessing most of them don't move around too much. Perhaps one winter or each winter doesn't matter much. Anyway... just topic of conversation here, not sure what I believe on the subject.

[David T]

Just a thought on where you park the car. The car guys at work all prefer to NOT park on a concrete slab since concrete holds moisture and can "rot" your car from underneath. They all prefer to park on a floor that is dirt or gravel. They say if you must park on concrete, put a tarp or canvas down first. Of course, this may be the case if you needed to store the car for a really long time, say 10 years or so. A couple of these guys own 100+ collector cars so I'm guessing most of them don't move around too much. Perhaps one winter or each winter doesn't matter much. Anyway... just topic of conversation here, not sure what I believe on the subject.

Moisture can migrate upwards through concrete but certainly nowhere near as much as if you park the car directly on dirt. I have seen the results of parking cars on dirt and it isn't pretty. Typically if the car is parked (stored) on dirt you also see rodent damage. These preferences take on almost religious fervor. I go by what I have seen and the better preserved cars were always the ones that were indoors on pavement, either asphalt or concrete. Those "Barn Fresh" finds where the car was on dirt are always the ugliest. Although it is "inside" protected from the weather, the dirt allowed moisture to rot the frame. Since it was "inside" that is where all of the critters go, especially in the winter!

[john 05141]

Last weekend I put my car in its winter - mode.
Forgot to mention that I also add this leather treatment stuff on the seats so the leather does not dry out as much.

Jan