I've done some research on TAB's

[mike3112]

I haven't done a TAB job yet but I've read many of the posts and I need to do my car. I have two sources for a bolt.

I found a M12x130mm, grade 12.9, socket head , 36mm thread length, 1.75 pitch. Zinc Plated. The length of 130mm is NOT including the head, so overall length is about 137m I'm guessing. According to some engineering websites, 12.9 is about the same strength as Inconel 715, as used in Toby TABS if I understand correctly. It has a proof strength of 176Ksi (140,000 psi) and a tensile strength of 176Ksi (176,000 psi) Grade 12.9 is about 10-15% stronger than the 10.9 of the original TABs. The supplier tells me they are zinc plated and then baked to prevent hydrogen embrittlement, thus maintaining rated strength. The best part about this is the price. I can buy a box of 50 for about $130 delivered from South Carolina. All I did was make a few phone calls, It wasn't that difficult, am I missing something here? I realize it's a socket head, but there is enough room on the head side is there not? I don't know what the material of washer part #:SP10868 is, but I would source a good 10.9 washer since the socket head is a little smaller than a hex head so the stress on the washer may be a little higher.

I am also waiting for a quote on 50 pcs of an Inconel 715 bolt, same dimensions, but with a hex head. As I understand, Inconel 715 is a little stronger than 12.9, and has superior corrosion resistance. These parts are made to order, and will cost about $200 EACH ! maybe a little cheaper at the 50 qty. My apologies to Toby P. I'm not trying to steal your thunder, I know you did a lot of research on your TABs. I'm just trying to source my own set and this is what I came up with. The only problem is the 50 piece quantity, that's $10,000 worth of bolts. If one of our vendors would like to make the investment, I'm happy to give them the source info. All I would want out of this is two bolts at whatever the cost turns out to be.

I'm new to this DMC forum, and if I've missed some subtle point about these bolts, someone feel free to set me straight. Considering the low price of the socket head bolts, I'm inclined to go with them. But the slick setup would be the Inconel bolts with a hex head for an OEM look, and few would ever notice the difference. Anybody who wants a pair of the 50 socket head bolts I need to buy can have them for $6/pair plus shipping (about $8 ) I'm guessing. Any interest out there?
Best Regards,
Mike D.

[Mark D]

Hi Mike, welcome to the forum.

It sounds like you've done some good research so far but you seem to have hit a wall in regards to minimum order quantities. If you're not looking to going into the TAB business as a side project you may be better off looking to one of the vendors who already sells 12.9 bolts in the correct size.

I believe DMCH and affiliates have 12.9 strength bolts that they offer... This is what they have listed on the web page:
http://store.delorean.com/p-7390-bolt-m12.aspx
If you call them up you should be able to get more specs on the bolts. I usually go to Dave S. at DMCMW since they are local and have awesome customer service.

John Hervey also sells cad plated 12.9 socket head bolts here: (scroll half way down the page)
http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/suspension.html

Otherwise if you search around on the forum I think there are people who have been able to just buy two bolts from Fastenal or other large hardware vendors.

Inconel would be a great option as well but as you already said thats a 10k investment at the minimum buy quantities you listed..... My guess is that you'd be sitting on inventory for a long, long time. I think the perceived demand for TABs is a lot higher than the actual demand. If I remember correctly even Toby P. had some difficulties selling of the first batch of "Toby Tabs" back when they were first created.

I don't mean to discourage you from sourcing your own bolts, but rather inform you of the other options that are out there that you may not be aware of. It's also still possible to find a set of Toby TABs if you're looking for Inconel, although the price has risen a lot in the past several years as they become harder to find.

[mike3112]

thanks for the quick response Mark. DMCH and the other appear to have only the 10.9 variety. It looks like John Hervey has the same socket heads that I found, so it looks like I reinvented the screw again. However... I did just hear back from the other supplier regarding the Inconel 718 bolts (not 715 as I stated earlier) Let me repeat the specs, m12x130(not including the head) , 1.75pitch, 40mm thread length, Inconel 718, with an 18mm hex head I can get these for $25 each with a 50 piece minimum. At this price, who would want to use anything else, for a part that is all but indistinguishable from the oem part, with a strength rating slightly better than 12.9, and superior corrosion resistance?
Any interest out there? I'll call them Z-TAB 's since I'll be selling them from the shameless commerce division of my Ziebart business in Fairfax, VA. I can even take credit cards.

regards,
Mike

[Bitsyncmaster]

At those prices (did you add any profit) I think you would easily unload them. I will be your first customer.

[mike3112]

I tacked on about $5 for my trouble, WOO HOO ! Packaging and shipping will add another $15-20. I'm not looking to make money here, just fill a need. Thanks Dave.
Mike

[Domi]

Inconel would be nice, I'd love to see another batch of this TAB.
Unfortunately, the total cost seems very expensive.
Anyway, at $200 the two bolt, I would buy you a set either.

[DMCMW Dave]

Must be Trailing Arm Bolt day!

We'll be selling these I718 Trailing Arm Bolts as of tomorrow at DMC Midwest. We've had a small batch made of Inconel 718, they will come with the nuts. Pricing not yet finalized but will be similar to legacy pricing. We'll announce in a new thread.

23495

[Domi]

Same as the TobyTab?

[mike3112]

Inconel would be nice, I'd love to see another batch of this TAB.
Unfortunately, the total cost seems very expensive.
Anyway, at $200 the two bolt, I would buy you a set either.

yeah at $200 each they ARE pricey, but at $25 each they're a bargain! Heck, buy a pair just to have on hand. If I can get at least ten people to ante up, then I"ll pull the pin and order them.

[Nicholas R]

I tacked on about $5 for my trouble, WOO HOO ! Packaging and shipping will add another $15-20. I'm not looking to make money here, just fill a need. Thanks Dave.
Mike

Just FYI, the 12.9 grade bolts aren't that hard to get ahold of. Last year I walked into a Fastenal location, they ordered me 2, arrived at the store the next day, and I picked them up. It was roughly $5 per bolt. You can also order them online. I just really don't think there's any money to be made in steel trailing arm bolts. Best of luck anyway.

Dave, when can we all place our orders?! :biggrin:

[LEVY]

Just FYI, the 12.9 grade bolts aren't that hard to get ahold of. Last year I walked into a Fastenal location, they ordered me 2, arrived at the store the next day, and I picked them up. It was roughly $5 per bolt. You can also order them online. I just really don't think there's any money to be made in steel trailing arm bolts. Best of luck anyway.

Dave, when can we all place our orders?! :biggrin:

He is talking about inconel 718!

LEVY

[DL4567]

Just FYI, the 12.9 grade bolts aren't that hard to get ahold of. Last year I walked into a Fastenal location, they ordered me 2, arrived at the store the next day, and I picked them up. It was roughly $5 per bolt. You can also order them online. I just really don't think there's any money to be made in steel trailing arm bolts. Best of luck anyway.

Dave, when can we all place our orders?! :biggrin:

I could be misunderstanding here, but I think he's looking to sell Inconel 718 bolts for $25 each, not steel bolts similar to commonly available ones.
EDIT: Yep, what Levy said. :)

But that announcement from Dave S. above was pretty major and quite unexpected (in the best way), and might cancel Mike3112's run altogether as he's really just looking for 2 bolts like the rest of us. Looking forward to hearing more about your new bolts, Dave!

[djdogbone]

Yes, I'd jump on this wagon as well and take a pair!

[mike3112]

Must be Trailing Arm Bolt day!

We'll be selling these I718 Trailing Arm Bolts as of tomorrow at DMC Midwest. We've had a small batch made of Inconel 718, they will come with the nuts. Pricing not yet finalized but will be similar to legacy pricing. We'll announce in a new thread.

23495

Do you have a price for these bolts yet?

[Nicholas R]

He is talking about inconel 718!

LEVY

Oops I read too fast.

Ok yea, I'm definitely on board for the 718 bolts!

[eagle-co94]

Mike, where are you located? You haven't filled out all your info. These bolts can easily fit in USPS flat rate boxes for under $6 with free insurance and tracking via USPS.com. This would make a great fast and easy tech day project and a lot of cars could be done in a short time. I'd be up for that. You could then ship multiple sets to one address too.

[mike3112]

Obviously I didn't do any research into the shipping aspect of this. If I can throw a pair of these into a box for $6 then that's what we'll do. Assuming the USPS will pick up the boxes at my shop with the regular mail and I don't have to hump down to the Post Office. How would a tech day work? I've never participated in one. I do have a shop here in Fairfax, VA. I MIGHT be persuaded to open it up on a Sunday for a group of owners to do this. We have a drive-on type lift.

[eagle-co94]

Tech days/mod days are pretty simple. You schedule a time to get a bunch of cars together that need work and you get multiple hands in. It's a nice get together, sometimes BBQ or go out to dinner afterwards, maybe even a cruise once all the mods are done. It's a good opportunity for owners to get together away from the car show crowds.

[DWDuck]

Tech days/mod days are pretty simple. You schedule a time to get a bunch of cars together that need work and you get multiple hands in. It's a nice get together, sometimes BBQ or go out to dinner afterwards, maybe even a cruise once all the mods are done. It's a good opportunity for owners to get together away from the car show crowds.

I would be very interested in participating in a Tech Day, even if it's just a pass-me-the-wrench level of help that I could give. At this point, I've only just found out that TAB stands for Trailing Arm Bolt....

I'm in Central Massachusetts, almost up to New Hampshire.

[mike3112]

thanks for all the response to my OP. I never had any desire to go into the business of selling TAB's, I'm not interested in competing with our established vendors, and didn't really want the aggravation of trying to sell 24 pairs of these bolts. All I wanted was a pair of Inconel TAB's for a reasonable price. Although I would have been able to get these bolts for only $16 each in quantity, I'm willing to pay a little more so as to not have to deal with the above issues. I ordered a pair from DMCM and they arrived two days later. Yes they cost me 4 times as much as I could have got them for(in qty) but they came with nuts (sort of generic nylocks but sufficient). I think two of these TABs for $120 is a reasonable price. A higher order qty could reduce that somewhat. I think Inconel TABs are the only way to go. Great peace of mind for such a critical part. Thanks to Dave for some good advice, timely shipping and just being there for us D owners. So thanks for the interest but I will not be selling my own TABs it's just not worth the trouble. Go buy a set from DMCM, the parts are beautifully made, Inconel is an awesome material. Now I can't wait to get them on my car, to see of the odd handling behavior and clunking sound is resolved. Good Luck !