Water Pump

[Silverbullet]

Ok,
So how hard is it to replace the Water Pump?.... I think mine is leaking :rolleyes1: Have to check it out, but I saw Green stuff leaking off the oil pan by the crank pulley.....

Craig

[sdg3205]

Ok,
So how hard is it to replace the Water Pump?.... I think mine is leaking :rolleyes1: Have to check it out, but I saw Green stuff leaking off the oil pan by the crank pulley.....

Craig

Very straight forward.

There are directions here on taking the engine down to the Valley O' Death. You'll need to do that to access the hoses off the back of the pump.

Just be careful when removing old bolts. They like to snap.

Edit - Opethmike did a great write up. It's probably in the How To section.

[David T]

Very straight forward.

There are directions here on taking the engine down to the Valley O' Death. You'll need to do that to access the hoses off the back of the pump.

Just be careful when removing old bolts. They like to snap.

Edit - Opethmike did a great write up. It's probably in the How To section.

Although it can be described as "straightforward" it is not a small job. You have to clear off the top of the motor and that requires removing the fuel system and the induction system. You should also be replacing ALL of the coolant hoses and the radiator if you still have the plastic one and the header bottle if it is also plastic. There are a LOT of "while you are in there" kinds of things to do also like a tune-up, replace or rebuild the clutch slave cylinder, adjust the valves, replace the O2 sensor, have the injectors cleaned, replace the belts and the idler bearings and "O" ring, One of the biggest problems you can have is breaking bolts. Steel bolts in aluminum corrode and seize. Upon removal sometimes they snap and it can take some machinist skills to drill out the stub and retap the hole.

[DeLorean03]

Don't let anyone scare you with this, man. It's not THAT hard a job.

The water pump replacement is not too bad so as long as:

A. You take your time.

B. You have an excellent how-to or another owner who has done it before with you. Oh look, here's the one I used: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?429-How-to-Removing-intake-manifold&p=3541&viewfull=1#post3541

C. You have ALL the parts you need to do the job, and more importantly, the tools to do it.

D. Lots of preventative maintenance or "while you're in there" point already mentioned. This is not a job to expect to do in 1 day if it's your first time. For me, I took 4 Thursdays to do it - I spread the job over 1 full month of Thursdays at 1-3 hours each Thursday evening and did it slowly. I took my time, 4x checked everything as I went, and it was NOT that bad.

E. David brings up a solid point: what to do if the waterpump bolts break. This does happen frequently if this is the first time ever the pump has been changed. It's not your fault; it's chemistry's fault. Read up on how to remove a broken bolt - some people use easy-outs; other's use heat and vice-grips; still others use a drill and get the bolt out and then check their threads and re-thread if necessary.

F. Patience, patience, patience. LOTS of owners have done this job. Believe in yourself, take time to do your research and homework, then jump in and do it! Once you've done it, it's a huge feeling of accomplishment, and you'll never dread it again (if it goes smoothly - actual mileage may vary).

[David T]

Don't let anyone scare you with this, man. It's not THAT hard a job.

The water pump replacement is not too bad so as long as:

A. You take your time.

B. You have an excellent how-to or another owner who has done it before with you. Oh look, here's the one I used: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?429-How-to-Removing-intake-manifold&p=3541&viewfull=1#post3541

C. You have ALL the parts you need to do the job, and more importantly, the tools to do it.

D. Lots of preventative maintenance or "while you're in there" point already mentioned. This is not a job to expect to do in 1 day if it's your first time. For me, I took 4 Thursdays to do it - I spread the job over 1 full month of Thursdays at 1-3 hours each Thursday evening and did it slowly. I took my time, 4x checked everything as I went, and it was NOT that bad.

E. David brings up a solid point: what to do if the waterpump bolts break. This does happen frequently if this is the first time ever the pump has been changed. It's not your fault; it's chemistry's fault. Read up on how to remove a broken bolt - some people use easy-outs; other's use heat and vice-grips; still others use a drill and get the bolt out and then check their threads and re-thread if necessary.

F. Patience, patience, patience. LOTS of owners have done this job. Believe in yourself, take time to do your research and homework, then jump in and do it! Once you've done it, it's a huge feeling of accomplishment, and you'll never dread it again (if it goes smoothly - actual mileage may vary).

My post was not meant to talk you out of trying but to give you the realities you will be facing. Better to know BEFORE you start. Many on this forum have done this job but it does require some mechanical skills, tools, and a good place to work. If you have never done anything like this it is not the best thing to try to do to learn on. If that is the case at least get someone with more skills and experience than you to help.

[sdg3205]

If you can follow directions, you can dig into the valley. As J. said, just take your time.

If my memory serves me right, the tools needed are even included on the PDF mike created. Nothing special required, other than maybe a torque wrench for re-assembly.

I'm from the DIY DeLorean camp, and you'll never know what you're capable of until you try. A wise man once said, "if you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything." Reference escapes me :)

[DeLorean03]

Say what you wish, David. I never mentioned you specifically by name. Your points are valid; I'm just telling the guy after doing it for the first time this year, it's not that bad or hard.

OP, I learned how to do this on my car as I went. I had another owner who also had never done it before, and we both figured it out as we went. Before 2013, the intake had been off one time on my car as HillBillyDMC "held my hand" back in 2004 and lead the restoration of my engine. In Feb 2013, I finally took the plunge and did it myself with another owner - both of us had never done this job before. Since then, just this year alone, I removed the intake another 4 times as I was troubleshooting an issue later in the year.

I went from never doing it to 5 times this year alone.

Now, if this is the first time this has EVER been done to your car or the first time you know it's going to have been done to your car, be ready to encounter some roadblocks as David mentioned. Things can happen you don't expect, but don't let that discourage you to trying this for yourself. Just take your time, be patient, don't lose your cool. Have lots of ziplock bags and a sharpie for all the bolts. That will save your butt.




If my memory serves me right, the tools needed are even included on the PDF mike created. Nothing special required, other than maybe a torque wrench for re-assembly.

I'm from the DIY DeLorean camp, and you'll never know what you're capable of until you try. A wise man once said, "if you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything." Reference escapes me :)

Yep - tools sure are labeled in the pdf. More tools are always welcomed :D.

[opethmike]

Not a hard job, not advanced by any means. Can you turn a wrench, bag and label parts, and read instructions? If so, you can do it.

[virtualchuck]

Not a hard job, not advanced by any means. Can you turn a wrench, bag and label parts, and read instructions? If so, you can do it.

I might add one thing...Photograph EVERYTHING from EVERY angle before, during, and after... I can't tell you how many times I searched "DeLorean Engine" in Google images to try and find a shot from just the right angle to figure out where something went.

Chuck

[Silverbullet]

The job should not be Soooooo hard, the valley of death was done a year ago, all new coolant hoses, new plugs, cap , rotor, Cluch Slave, injectors, not sure if the pump was EVER changed or not. Maybe I can just unbolt push the intake forward, if a bolt does not break... I could do it easy... but...you never know.

Craig

[opethmike]

I might add one thing...Photograph EVERYTHING from EVERY angle before, during, and after... I can't tell you how many times I searched "DeLorean Engine" in Google images to try and find a shot from just the right angle to figure out where something went.

Chuck

100% agreed!

[Kenny_Z]

I've done it twice in the matter of a few weeks. One of those "I should have done that while I was there but it wasn't leaking so why bother" idiot moves. It was by far the most involved water pump replacement I have ever done and that includes being crammed inside the engine bay of a late 80s Astro van to get at a stubborn bolt. The most difficult part for me was getting all 4 of the coolant hoses to line up at the same time. There were quite a few walk-away moments to ease my frustration and keep from throwing tools. Thankfully I did not have any broken bolts.

[jackb]

If you read and follow the how-to, and nothing breaks, it's easily doable in one day. Best done indoors, in a well lit garage.

[kings1527]

In my opinion, everything that was said within this thread is all you need to know. Craig: if you need a hand, I'm not far from you and I'll help you with it. Barring any unforseen problems, such as frozen bolts, we could get this done real quickly. Some other things you might want to consider since you'll have everything apart:

1) replating certain parts (AC brackets, crankshaft pulley, coldstart valve tube, pipe of agony, throttle assembly, etc)
2) powdercoating your valve covers and timing chain cover
3) changing out your bearings in your AC pulleys (I think someone already mentioned this)
4) new cap and rotor, along with new plugs and wires if it hasn't been done in a long time (I think someone mentioned this, too). It'd take us 15 min, if that, to do it.
5) replacing your vacuum lines. I recommend silicone since they should last the lifetime of the vehicle once installed. You'll never have to do it again. Five minute job with everything torn down.

Shoot me a PM if you need help.

[Citizen]

All the things I've read in this thread are sound advice, but I would add one thing before you dive into the VOD and replace the water pump. BE SURE IT'S THE PUMP.

I say that because, you said you saw green fluid down below, and the VOD was done a year ago, and all hoses changed. Maybe the pump is only a year old too? So it could be a freeze plug.

I also like the ideaa of photographing everything. I do this too. Digital cameras and memory are cheap!

Thomas

...

[opethmike]

I've done it twice in the matter of a few weeks. One of those "I should have done that while I was there but it wasn't leaking so why bother" idiot moves. It was by far the most involved water pump replacement I have ever done and that includes being crammed inside the engine bay of a late 80s Astro van to get at a stubborn bolt. The most difficult part for me was getting all 4 of the coolant hoses to line up at the same time. There were quite a few walk-away moments to ease my frustration and keep from throwing tools. Thankfully I did not have any broken bolts.

The trick is to not try to line up all 4 at once. When I put the pump on, I line up the two hoses on the back and slip the pump into place.

After those are on and secured, I bolt the water pump into place, and then I force on the side hoses.

[Silverbullet]

Thanks for all the advise, and offer of help (Kings 1527) I need to get some time to verify what is leaking...I have a Snake Color Camara, and will see if it is the weep hole on the pump...
Funny thing is, it seems to leak alot when the car is on my driveway, on a incline...Rear Lower.. but no in the garage when level... does that make any sense?

Craig

[Rich]

Funny thing is, it seems to leak a lot when the car is on my driveway, on a incline...Rear Lower.. but no in the garage when level... does that make any sense?

Does it make sense? Not sure. Maybe the pump weep is designed so the already-leaked-from-shaft-seal coolant pools ahead of it and below, unseen, then when the car is inclined more of the pooled coolant shows up externally out of the weep hole.

For best troubleshooting use a coolant system pressure pump/gauge mounted where the coolant bottle cap goes. Good investment.

Based on your reports the cooling system should not hold pressure very well. With the tester you can check it warm or cold and in driveway or garage while looking for seepage.

Weep hole is visible with a mechanic's mirror and good lighting.

[Silverbullet]

Ok,

So today, I made sure the Coolant tank was Little Better Than Half Full, started it up, and no leak anywhere... the weep hole was dry. I looked at at the hose connections, and they were dry.... I drove it... Everything is still dry... hummmmmmm Guess I will watch it...

Craig

[David T]

Ok,

So today, I made sure the Coolant tank was Little Better Than Half Full, started it up, and no leak anywhere... the weep hole was dry. I looked at at the hose connections, and they were dry.... I drove it... Everything is still dry... hummmmmmm Guess I will watch it...

Craig

If the seals or hoses under the intake manifold are leaking you won't notice it because the cavities on the top of the block can hold a LOT of coolant. Noticing it on an incline means the coolant is spilling out after the cavities get filled and the car is tilted. Keep an eye on the coolant level. If you need to keep adding and you don't see it leaking you probably have leaks under the intake manifold. If the pump is over 10 years old you will be replacing it anyway when you pull the intake to fix the other leaks.

[Silverbullet]

If the seals or hoses under the intake manifold are leaking you won't notice it because the cavities on the top of the block can hold a LOT of coolant. Noticing it on an incline means the coolant is spilling out after the cavities get filled and the car is tilted. Keep an eye on the coolant level. If you need to keep adding and you don't see it leaking you probably have leaks under the intake manifold. If the pump is over 10 years old you will be replacing it anyway when you pull the intake to fix the other leaks.

Now that maks sense.... So... Can I see coolant with a snake camara under the intake in the valley?

Craig

[David T]

Now that maks sense.... So... Can I see coolant with a snake camara under the intake in the valley?

Craig

Difficult. If the level keeps dropping and you do not see any leaks elsewhere you can safely assume you are leaking under the intake manifold. Check the weep hole on the water pump for green staining too. It may only leak when the motor is really hot and the coolant pressure is high. By the time you look and everything has cooled off there will be no moisture, only staining. You can also have a bad radiator cap. Test it.

[Silverbullet]

I bought a Radiator pressure tester with 14 different tester caps... not one worked on the Stainless Steel Tank, so I modifyed one to fit... $108 for the tester. I put pressure on it, and at 15 psi, I could hear it leaking... the Valley filled up, and leaked out the front of the enging around the pully... Water Pump weep hole dry.... so... at least I know where I am... Is there a good link on pulling the intake?

Craig

[sdg3205]

Is there a good link on pulling the intake?

Craig

It's on page 1 of this thread.

[virtualchuck]

I bought a Radiator pressure tester with 14 different tester caps... not one worked on the Stainless Steel Tank, so I modifyed one to fit... $108 for the tester. I put pressure on it, and at 15 psi, I could hear it leaking... the Valley filled up, and leaked out the front of the enging around the pully... Water Pump weep hole dry.... so... at least I know where I am... Is there a good link on pulling the intake?

Craig

I ran in to the same thing borrowing one from Auto Zone and Advanced Auto that had the dozen plus caps. I then borrowed one from O'Reilly that only had one cap...Yep, perfect fit...

Chuck

[kings1527]

I bought a Radiator pressure tester with 14 different tester caps... not one worked on the Stainless Steel Tank, so I modifyed one to fit... $108 for the tester. I put pressure on it, and at 15 psi, I could hear it leaking... the Valley filled up, and leaked out the front of the enging around the pully... Water Pump weep hole dry.... so... at least I know where I am... Is there a good link on pulling the intake?

Craig

Well, it might be pretty obvious what the problem is now. I had a very similar issue. It seems like the hoses that go into the back of the water pump have a way of 'backing off' the clamps a bit and causing them to leak. I noticed on Grady's website that it's a common problem on the car. The thing that sucks is that the only way to access the hoses and the clamps is to take the manifold off. Not difficult but time consuming if you've never done it before. At least your water pump sounds like it's ok but you still might want to consider replacing it now since you'll have the manifold off. At this point, it'd be pretty easy to do. Just some hoses and three bolts, along with swapping the thermotime switch, thermostat and thermostat housing, and pump back. Simple.

You might want to consider replacing all of your hoses, or at least the big one and little one going into the back of the water pump, with silicone hoses and liner clamps. Supposedly they are much less susceptible to backing off than standard rubber. That's what I did and I haven't had any problems since.

[Rich]

Another mystery solved via a cooling system pressure test kit. Nice job so far. Here are 3 things to use it for on this job:

It will come in handy again of course after you get the intake manifold off. You can spot the leak point(s) exactly, although you'll likely want to renew every potential leak point while in there.

As hinted by Alex and noted in other threads, be sure to perform a coolant pressure/leak test after you renew the cooling-related components in the VOD and BEFORE you reinstall the manifold.

When you're done with this VOD excursion and the repairs use the pressure tester to test the rad cap. As David T has often noted they do wear out (cracking/splitting the seal) eventually. Test it every 2 yrs when you change the coolant.

[Silverbullet]

Another mystery solved via a cooling system pressure test kit. Nice job so far. Here are 3 things to use it for on this job:

It will come in handy again of course after you get the intake manifold off. You can spot the leak point(s) exactly, although you'll likely want to renew every potential leak point while in there.

As hinted by Alex and noted in other threads, be sure to perform a coolant pressure/leak test after you renew the cooling-related components in the VOD and BEFORE you reinstall the manifold.

When you're done with this VOD excursion and the repairs use the pressure tester to test the rad cap. As David T has often noted they do wear out (cracking/splitting the seal) eventually. Test it every 2 yrs when you change the coolant.

The hoses in the VOD were all done last October, about 2,000 miles since...every cooling hose was done... cap is a year old. My guess is the hose clamp was not tight enough and backed off the pump... but I will see. Thanks for all the great help figureing out what the problem was. Work has been crazy busy, and I have not had much free time... Hoping for a break over the holidays!

Craig

[DMC5180]

If the coupler hoses are silicone, it's not uncommon for them to need follow up clamp tightening after a season of driving. Use an inch lb torque wrench if you have one. The standard recommended torque setting form most worm clamps is 60 Inch pounds.

[Bitsyncmaster]

If the coupler hoses are silicone, it's not uncommon for them to need follow up clamp tightening after a season of driving. Use an inch lb torque wrench if you have one. The standard recommended torque setting form most worm clamps is 60 Inch pounds.

+1

I exclusively use ABA all stainless steel hose clamps. If you use a torque wrench with a second re-torque after they sit for an hour or so, you should not have to do it again.

http://www.ultimategarage.com/abaprice.html

[DMC5180]

+1

ABA or AWAB clamps are like the OEM clamps. They do not have the crescent slots that will chew into the hose. Theoretically the best clamp for this location is the GM spring type, AKA a constant tension clamp. They can expand and contract with the temperature cycles. Unfortunately I have yet to find a spring clamp in the Larger coupler hose range in the aftermarket. They seem to stop at 2 inches. They also require a special tool to install and remove. As an owner of other GM automobiles, I have one which costs about $35 online.

[Silverbullet]

I got to it today....

Just had to tighten a clamp... all good now...

Craig

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o19/AtHomeSoda/LooseClamp_zpse692436b.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/AtHomeSoda/media/LooseClamp_zpse692436b.jpg.html)

[DeLorean03]

Nearly always seems to be that one -_____-

[DMC5180]

You need to sop up the coolant that filled the deep pockets. I hate to say it, but there are certain feminine hygiene Products that will absorb the liquids pretty well. They come in little tubes If you know what I mean. :facepalm:

[virtualchuck]

You need to sop up the coolant that filled the deep pockets. I hate to say it, but there are certain feminine hygiene Products that will absorb the liquids pretty well. They come in little tubes If you know what I mean. :facepalm:

Now that would be an interesting conversation with the Mrs..."What's the biggest size these come in, I need some for the DeLorean" GREAT idea though!

Chuck

[David T]

Now that would be an interesting conversation with the Mrs..."What's the biggest size these come in, I need some for the DeLorean" GREAT idea though!

Chuck

A baster also works or some pieces of an old sponge. You can use a wet-dry vac with a small hose duct taped together too. If you strain the anti-freeze through a rag you can reuse it. No sense wasting it.

[sdg3205]

Anyone?!

240722407324074

[Silverbullet]

It was a Flow Problem...:biggrin: