Is there a difference in stock spring heights from 81 to 83 models?

[stevedmc]

When I first purchased 16510 it came with springs that had been chopped and swapped. It was extremely low so I decided to replace them with Eibach springs in the front and stock springs in the rear.

I am satisfied with the rear height but the front is still extremely low when I place my tools in the truck. I would like to install a set of stock springs in the front but I am confused about stock spring sizes.

It seems I read somewhere that there were different spring sizes over the years. My car was built in August 82 and is Vinned as an 83.

Someone has offered me a set of stock springs for an 81 but I am concerned they might not be the correct height for my later vin.

Does anyone know if spring sizes were increased or lowered from 81 to 83 and if I might have any problems installing springs from an 81 on my car?

Thanks everyone.

[TTait]

I've never heard of any intentional variations in stock springs, front or rear...

[sean]

I've never heard of any intentional variations in stock springs, front or rear...

+1

[DMCMW Dave]

Actually I've heard that there were three different "stock" front springs, but the only way to tell them apart would be with a spring test gauge. I suppose at one time they were color coded.

[TTait]

(Unrelated) - Steve, I've gotta ask about your avatar photo there... Is that a pic of you in a bubble bath? Not that I really need the details if it is, but that's what its always looked like to me...

[TTait]

Actually I've heard that there were three different "stock" front springs, but the only way to tell them apart would be with a spring test gauge. I suppose at one time they were color coded.

Do you think this was an intentional change, or was it more a matter of bench testing the springs and grading them so that similar springs were paired up when installed on the cars?

[Grover]

The different colored springs were used to compensate for the differences in the body molds and the fit of the panels. I have seen Red and Yellow springs.

For a nice drop that is not very low, PJ Grady has his springs in stock. They provide less of a drop than all the other options out there. It brings it to a small amount lower than the rear height.

[stevedmc]

The different colored springs were used to compensate for the differences in the body molds and the fit of the panels.

This is what I seem to remember hearing. I was just wondering if the different springs were used randomly (as needed) to compensate for different weighing body molds or if the springs were changed sometime in production. I may just try the springs I was offered and see what happens. I keep a lot of weight in the front so the car shouldn't be too nose high, even with stock springs.



(Unrelated) - Steve, I've gotta ask about your avatar photo there... Is that a pic of you in a bubble bath? Not that I really need the details if it is, but that's what its always looked like to me...

Click on the link for your answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0UNKTg7e1I

[TTait]

Oh, cool. I thought it was something weird.

Now, Steve. You realize that documentary you saw was talking about Roman baths, right?


Back to the springs - If they went to the trouble to match springs to chassis, I would think that mixing a red with a yellow for example might have noticeable effects on handling and posture of the front end. If you buy a set of springs from Houston, are they still matched as a pair?

[stevedmc]

If you buy a set of springs from Houston, are they still matched as a pair?


Beats me. I'm going to get my springs from someone who replaced their old ones with Eibach.

[content22207]

Just cut down an old set of stock springs to whatever height you want.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[David T]

I have seen the colors too. It might only be to match so both sides are the same height. There was only the one part number over all of the years and never any reference to any changes in ride height except in the specs for the alignment. Since cars have been in many hands and over the years people have modified cars anything could be in there as noticed by you the springs were cut. A common practice "back in the day" to chop and swap as you say. Not always done well so the best thing would be to get proper springs installed as you have already done. For minor changes you can use spacers. I do not recommend going lower than stock. Changing the ride height affects camber and toe. If you do not adjust to compensate, the handling will not be right and you will wearing your tires unevenly.
David Teitelbaum

[content22207]

Stock front springs put the suspension and steering close to their upward limits even when the car is standing still.

There is not a single development picture with the front end anywhere near production height -- it appears Lotus itself intended the front end to sit lower.

The Visioneering car had a lower front end.

I am convinced that the front end was raised on the eve of production because DMC discovered that the cars could not be loaded on American auto racks (my driveway is *LESS* steep that the ramps on a car carrier, yet I still have to creep out of it to avoid impacting the front end).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[WelmoedJ]

Springs should always be exchanged in pairs.
That way you make sure there's no difference in height and strength.

BTW: When I bought my D in Texas the front had chopped springs, lowering the front to some 16 cm (6.3 inch).
Each speed bump in the street was mine (or at least the mounts of the sway bar). :(
I now have new springs (DMC EU) and have a front height of 19 cm (7.5 inch).
No problems with speed bumps anymore at almost whatever speed :)

And the stance is still better than with the high stock front springs.
If I/m correct the Eibachs have about the same ride height as the ones from DMC EU.
I feel the D looks better with a bit lower front than front and rear at the same height.

[stevedmc]

I am convinced that the front end was raised on the eve of production because DMC discovered that the cars could not be loaded on American auto racks (my driveway is *LESS* steep that the ramps on a car carrier, yet I still have to creep out of it to avoid impacting the front end).

I always thought the decision to raise the front end was because of a US DOT bumper height requirement. The loading onto US auto racks problem makes sense too, I just heard of a DOT requirement first.

Anyway, the idea behind the different color springs makes sense to me. The reason for the different colors may have just been to keep from mixing different batches of springs.

[content22207]

That is more DeLorean mythology that just refuses to die. As an infamous dictator once said, if a lie is repeated often enough, people will eventually accept it as true.

Minimum Federal bumper height in 1981 was 16 inches. Lowest edge of the front bumper in the dimensional drawings on Page A:04:01 of the Workshop Manual (which shows a lowered front end, thank you very much) is 16.2 inches.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Jacko]

If the spring has a yellow paint smear it's for the rear. Red paint smear indicates a front spring. The wire size on a rear spring is substantially larger than the front spring.

[qwerk]

That is more DeLorean mythology that just refuses to die. As an infamous dictator once said, if a lie is repeated often enough, people will eventually accept it as true.

Minimum Federal bumper height in 1981 was 16 inches. Lowest edge of the front bumper in the dimensional drawings on Page A:04:01 of the Workshop Manual (which shows a lowered front end, thank you very much) is 16.2 inches.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Alright, so if it's a myth that Lotus raised ride height to make the handling worse, and this is a myth then what is the real reason?

[content22207]

Lotus didn't raise the nose -- DMC did that on their own. There is not a single photograph of a raised nose car at Hethel.

Remember that Lotus was only tasked with designing the car, not distributing it. I suspect that on the eve of mass importation, somebody at DMC suddenly discovered that the cars could not be loaded on American autoracks. Remember that every car imported to that point had been individually air freighted and unloaded horizontally with a scissors lift.

Makes more sense than the bumper height theory, which dimensional drawings in the Workshop Manual itself -- drawn by Lotus, thank you very much -- clearly disprove anyway (enlarge them and measure yourself if you don't believe me).

A production DeLorean's suspension is already at near full extension just sitting still. Surely Lotus did not intend *THAT*.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DMCMW Dave]

A production DeLorean's suspension is already at near full extension just sitting still. Surely Lotus did not intend *THAT*.

Bill Robertson
#5939

And the tie rods come off the rack at a really bad angle, making the car bump steer like crazy. (Compression of the suspension causes toe-out). Even Bill Collins of DMC complained about that while on a ride with a local owner.

I have to agree with Bill R - no way did the design go out of Lotus like this. If they really wanted it that high they'd have moved the arms on the steering knuckes up to get them to line up with the rack, and they would have used longer shock absorbers.

I can't agree or disagree with the reason.

[David T]

There could be some truth in that the car was intended to be lower. One Delorean owner used to race his car and said at speed the front tended to "unload" from aerodynamic forces (lift) so he had to put a lot of extra weight in the trunk to hold the front end down. As a practical issue if you do lower the car you have to be extra cautious with speed bumps, driveways, and potholes. Having a little extra height isn't all bad! And being higher gives you more travel in the suspension. Anyway, if you do decide to lower the front, the toe should be adjusted for it and the camber and castor should be within limits.
David Teitelbaum

[content22207]

... And being higher gives you more travel in the suspension....

Only in the downwards direction. Upwards, the suspension has very little travel before the front wheels leave the ground.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DeLorean]

Only in the downwards direction. Upwards, the suspension has very little travel before the front wheels leave the ground.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Yep, We just covered this in another thread. The standard suspension cars have a rather dangerous predilection to "pop off the ground" when you hit a crest at speed. You want the car to sit lower.