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FPBBrandon
01-13-2014, 08:22 PM
Fair warning- long post, in stream of consciousness form, with a problem I'm not sure how to attack.

I drove my D from Denver to Colorado Springs for Christmas, and while there, I noticed a small puddle of coolant collecting under the car. I took a look under the hood to note a small weep from the fitting that the drivers side coolant hose attaches to. I tightened the two bolts on the fitting just a bit, and the weep was gone. By the size of the puddle, I judged the car needed a bit of coolant, so I drove to the local store, bought some 50/50 and filled the overflow tank. I idled the car with its tail above its hood and the lid to the overflow tank to let air clear through the system. While idling the car, the floodgates opened, and I had large visible coolant leaks under the passenger side behind the rear wheel and at the coolant hose joint at the front of the car, pushing a good volume of coolant out of the system. The volume of fluid in the overflow tank does not change when the car is leaking. There was large intermittent bubbles coming up from the bottom of the overflow tank, probably relieving the air pockets made as the coolant leaked. When I capped the overflow tank, the coolant leaks stopped. The car has been sitting parked in my garage since I returned it just after Christmas, and having left the overflow tank's lid on, there are no puddles or spots on my floor.

The car's heater has not been very good ever since I bought it, and the car has always seemed to run cool. Perhaps a little too cool, based on some of the reading I've been doing. It will always read between the 100 and the next mark up, but always well below the 220 degree mark. When I filled the overflow with coolant and ran it open, the temperature gauge climbed to 220 and levelled off there, and the heater blew hot air. When I capped the Overflow, the coolant stopped leaking, but the temperature gauge dropped back to its normal position of just above 100, and the heater went back to tepid slightly-warmer-than-room-temp air.

Without knowing where the temp sensor is in the system, I guess my concern is that hot coolant is never making it to the heater core unless the overflow tank's cap is off and the car is leaking. I'm not sure if this would be a faulty Thermostat that doesn't open and allow coolant to flow, air trapped in the heater core, or something else. The car was coolant pressure tested before its sale to me about 1000 miles ago, but the car's heater has never really worked, and I'm concerned that coolant is not circulating.

I've also had a flare up of the car deciding to idle at 1500RPM, curable with a throttle blip much like my colleague at the thread referenced here;

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?8778-Strange-idling-after-coolant-replacement

Just like in his case, the car will hang at 1500 RPM, and a blip of the throttle brings the idle back down to 750-800. My car hunts idle RPMs when its cold, but I've read this is somewhat normal behavior. What I do find odd however, is as I was exploring the issue at the throttle spool, if I push the hammer back into the microswitch and trip the microswitch, the car stalls out and dies. Very peculiar. The behavior started for me after I had the center console out, and I was checking for free play of the throttle cable worrying I had pinched it on the re-installation, per the advice here;

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?8633-Vacuum-Leak&p=126363#post126363

Now all of these symptoms showing up at once have me worried about my headgaskets. The coolant leak by itself could be me overfilling it, the heater could be trapped air, etc, but the combination of all of the circumstances above has me very nervous. I plan to find a compression tester and try to check the cylinders to see what I'm reading. As to the rest, I'm not quite sure where to start. Any advice would be well appreciated. I pulled the dipstick and the oil is clear and not milky, nor do I see oil in the coolant in the overflow tank. The overflow tank does continue to bubble intermittently (once per minute approximately) if I leave the cap off.

On the plus side, over Christmas I reupholstered the headliners, and fixed the dome light, and both of those projects turned out stellar. It seems to go with the old adage of "two steps forward, and then your engine explodes". I replaced it for driving the rest of Christmas with the '87 Audi Coupe, which picked up a star in its unobtanium windshield. Its not a good month for my cars!

Bitsyncmaster
01-13-2014, 08:36 PM
You should not fill the coolant bottle up fully. Normal is about half full. If you fill it there will be coolant dumping out the overflow behind the passenger rear wheel. It sounds like you did get the air out of the system since your back to normal temps. My normal temp reading is just past the first line on the gauge. You may have a broken heater bypass valve if you get little or no heat. That valve should only shut the heater flow off when the AC is switched to MAX position.

FPBBrandon
01-13-2014, 08:58 PM
You should not fill the coolant bottle up fully. Normal is about half full. If you fill it there will be coolant dumping out the overflow behind the passenger rear wheel. It sounds like you did get the air out of the system since your back to normal temps. My normal temp reading is just past the first line on the gauge. You may have a broken heater bypass valve if you get little or no heat. That valve should only shut the heater flow off when the AC is switched to MAX position.

Thanks for the information Dave. Its strange that the heater works and the car posts a more realistic temp when the overflow tank is vented/overfull, then clears back down to cooler than Fonzie when I seal the system/it leaks itself out to a normal level. I spoke with a friend who recommended I idle the car for 5 minutes and carefully open the overflow after to see if the system is pressurized. It sounds like the car shouldn't have built its own pressure in the system after five minutes of idle time. Depending on the results of that (will post after I've had a chance to try it), I'll move on to a leakdown test.

If it is a combination of other things, is the heater bypass valve available? A quick search on DMCH didn't turn anything up.

DeLorean03
01-13-2014, 10:20 PM
If it is a combination of other things, is the heater bypass valve available? A quick search on DMCH didn't turn anything up.

I'm guessing this is what you're looking for?

http://store.delorean.com/p-7669-hot-water-valve.aspx

I'd fill your tank about halfway, and install an auto-bleeder kit from DMCNW:

http://www.delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K1012DP-A&Category_Code=9475

This will auto-bleed air from both the radiator side of the cooling system and the water pump side of the cooling system.

Get a new coolant bottle cap at 16 lbs pressure just to be 100% safe.

After all this, see how your temp gauge behaves. I really sincerely doubt you have anything going on with your head gaskets. Warped head gaskets are very rare on a DeLorean - given that the engine has not been excessively overheated. I think you simply had too much coolant in your system and the excess was "burped" out.

FPBBrandon
01-14-2014, 11:14 AM
I'm guessing this is what you're looking for?

http://store.delorean.com/p-7669-hot-water-valve.aspx

I'd fill your tank about halfway, and install an auto-bleeder kit from DMCNW:

http://www.delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K1012DP-A&Category_Code=9475

This will auto-bleed air from both the radiator side of the cooling system and the water pump side of the cooling system.

Get a new coolant bottle cap at 16 lbs pressure just to be 100% safe.

After all this, see how your temp gauge behaves. I really sincerely doubt you have anything going on with your head gaskets. Warped head gaskets are very rare on a DeLorean - given that the engine has not been excessively overheated. I think you simply had too much coolant in your system and the excess was "burped" out.

Thats good to know, thanks for the advice. In terms of making sure coolant is circulating, are there any tricks I can use? I'm concerned that I've seen my heater work and temps post, but only when the car is bleeding excess coolant. That indicates to me that coolant isn't flowing, at least to the heater and the temperature sender. Also, where is the temp sender in the system? I keep coming back to when the car's heater briefly works and the temp gauge posts, and am still a bit flummoxed...

David T
01-14-2014, 12:00 PM
Thats good to know, thanks for the advice. In terms of making sure coolant is circulating, are there any tricks I can use? I'm concerned that I've seen my heater work and temps post, but only when the car is bleeding excess coolant. That indicates to me that coolant isn't flowing, at least to the heater and the temperature sender. Also, where is the temp sender in the system? I keep coming back to when the car's heater briefly works and the temp gauge posts, and am still a bit flummoxed...

You probably still have air in the system that has to be bled. The header tank is filled 1/2 way COLD. The sticking throttle is probably because the throttle cable or throttle spool needs to be cleaned and lubricated. The heater valve may need to be replaced. The cooling system should be pressure tested so you can find and fix any leaks.

DeLorean03
01-14-2014, 12:39 PM
Thats good to know, thanks for the advice. In terms of making sure coolant is circulating, are there any tricks I can use? I'm concerned that I've seen my heater work and temps post, but only when the car is bleeding excess coolant. That indicates to me that coolant isn't flowing, at least to the heater and the temperature sender. Also, where is the temp sender in the system? I keep coming back to when the car's heater briefly works and the temp gauge posts, and am still a bit flummoxed...

You're referring to this I assume:

http://store.delorean.com/p-6209-temperature-switch.aspx

It is #45 on this diagram (one of things it's prolly easier to just look than me try to explain it):

http://store.delorean.com/c-330-1-1-5-cylinder-headvalvetrain.aspx

FPBBrandon
01-14-2014, 03:58 PM
You're referring to this I assume:

http://store.delorean.com/p-6209-temperature-switch.aspx

It is #45 on this diagram (one of things it's prolly easier to just look than me try to explain it):

http://store.delorean.com/c-330-1-1-5-cylinder-headvalvetrain.aspx

Thanks much! So assuming the temp switch is good, and mounted on one of the heads or the block, whats posting on the temp gauge on the dash should be believable? I was worried the temp switch was near the heater core or front radiator, which doesn't seem to be getting warm coolant for whats likely one of the reasons discussed above...

DMCMW Dave
01-14-2014, 05:10 PM
A very good quick circulation test is to (With the car COLD) take the cap off the header bottle. Start the engine. Look to see if you have a stream of coolant running from the small rubber hose that goes toward the front of the car.

If you are using a stainless header bottle you can't see the stream but you can stick your finger in there and feel for it.

If the stream is not running, water is not circulating. If the header bottle is half full, either the tee is blocked or the water pump isn't working.

FPBBrandon
01-14-2014, 06:11 PM
A very good quick circulation test is to (With the car COLD) take the cap off the header bottle. Start the engine. Look to see if you have a stream of coolant running from the small rubber hose that goes toward the front of the car.

If you are using a stainless header bottle you can't see the stream but you can stick your finger in there and feel for it.

If the stream is not running, water is not circulating. If the header bottle is half full, either the tee is blocked or the water pump isn't working.

I'll try this when I get home and report in. Thanks to all who have contributed advice so far.

FPBBrandon
01-14-2014, 09:40 PM
Looks like coolant is flowing from the hose Dave mentioned, if maybe a bit in earnest.


http://youtu.be/bRoym5fUtvQ

As the car idles and builds pressure, it appears to flow a bit better.

FPBBrandon
01-14-2014, 09:41 PM
Also grabbed a video of the car dying when the idle switch is engaged;


http://youtu.be/4R_BFdTHnPk

FPBBrandon
01-15-2014, 03:54 PM
Also grabbed a video of the car dying when the idle switch is engaged;


http://youtu.be/4R_BFdTHnPk

Looks like my videos didn't post, I'll link them below;

Overflow bottle flow;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoym5fUtvQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoym5fUtvQ)

Idle switch;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R_BFdTHnPk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R_BFdTHnPk)

jawn101
01-16-2014, 11:22 PM
I've said it before in a ton of other threads and I'll say it again - those heater control valves are annoying. The OEM part is actually quite durable under normal circumstances, but it seems like they almost always manage to get abused, broken, and replaced with a lower-quality part. And then you have all kinds of bogus cooling problems. I hate that stupid valve!! :)

If you do replace yours, don't buy a cheap one. Go NOS for the best fit, quality and price.

DMC5180
01-17-2014, 12:13 AM
Looks like my videos didn't post, I'll link them below;

Overflow bottle flow;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoym5fUtvQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoym5fUtvQ)

Idle switch;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R_BFdTHnPk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R_BFdTHnPk)

From what I can see the coolant is not flowing into the filler neck port. You should see a solid PEE stream coming out of it. (I should qualify by saying, this is what I see on my car. But I also have an auto bleeder configuration which could be enhancing the flow rate)

Also since you have a Plastic Header bottle you should reference the MIN / MAX level lines on the side of the tank. 1/4-1/3 is the normal level.