New owner: Day 1 Restoration / fuel leak

[Rich_NYS]

Today is Day 1 of my car being off the trailer and in my garage. Momma's car is now in the driveway until the 1st of February...wish me luck on that one.

My neighbor helped offload it from its tight squeeze on the trailer and he sat in a DeLorean for the first time. He had a Lotus a few years ago and is a huge DeLorean fan.

I rinsed it off a bit, took some pics and started on the fuel leak. It appears to be leaking from a fuel line in two places, I'm going to replace all the rubber parts asap. Suggestions welcome on ordering those parts.

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I looked through the parts & service manuals and found on page 1 of the parts manual a few notes mentioning Rob Grady....kinda cool.

Found rodent droppings & nest material in the jack & tool compartment.

I have two weeks to do as much as possible before I drop it off at a mechanic friend for the exhaust manifold gaskets & valve adjustment.

The more I look at the car the more I find things I like. It's almost surreal, I didn't plan on buying one so quickly because I hadn't enough knowledge. This summer was to be my target window for being ready to buy, but this car popped up on my radar and seemed to be worth a look. So, I relied heavily on the members here to guide me through an assessment. Special thanks to NightFlyer & Jonathan for the almost continuous consultation....absolutely couldn't (and wouldn't) have flown this mission solo.


Thanks again, everybody!

More pics from today: http://dmctalk.org/album.php?albumid=221

[Bill6298]

I recommend calling DMCMW or DPI. Although you can probably get high pressure fuel injector hoses locally. You might have to heat up those orange hoses to remove them with a knife. If you want stainless braided for those two lines, Josh at DPI might sell them. I do not think the DMC vendors carry that type.

[Rich_NYS]

I recommend calling DMCMW or DPI. Although you can probably get high pressure fuel injector hoses locally. You might have to heat up those orange hoses to remove them with a knife. If you want stainless braided for those two lines, Josh at DPI might sell them. I do not think the DMC vendors carry that type.

Thanks, are the hoses "pushed on" to the steel fittings that connect to the hard lines?

[Bill6298]

Yes, they have barbs. Be careful not to cut them. In my experience the connection is very tight and that's why you can't easily pull them off. I had the Grady hoses you have. I had to cut the outer hose off after heating with a heat gun. Then, I had to use more heat on the inner Teflon like hose.

[Bill6298]

Do you know why you have a leak? Are the hoses damaged? I am mobile and couldn't tell if one of the pics showed a split in the hose.

[DMCMW Dave]

Yes, they have barbs. Be careful not to cut them. In my experience the connection is very tight and that's why you can't easily pull them off. I had the Grady hoses you have. I had to cut the outer hose off after heating with a heat gun. Then, I had to use more heat on the inner Teflon like hose.

You can cut the Teflon off with a razor blade, just be careful not to scratch the barbs. Replacement hoses are now typically a high pressure rubber fuel injection line.

We have seen a bunch of those orange lines failing recently, apparently they are good for about 10-15 years, or something in modern gas is getting to them. The Teflon just gets rubbery and breaks.

[Rich_NYS]

Do you know why you have a leak? Are the hoses damaged? I am mobile and couldn't tell if one of the pics showed a split in the hose.

There are two places where the hose looks "swollen." The outer part seems split or maybe even deteriorated. You can somewhat see it in the pics, but the worst of it is on the underside of the hose where it connects to the hard line.

[Rich_NYS]

You can cut the Teflon off with a razor blade, just be careful not to scratch the barbs. Replacement hoses are now typically a high pressure rubber fuel injection line.

We have seen a bunch of those orange lines failing recently, apparently they are good for about 10-15 years, or something in modern gas is getting to them. The Teflon just gets rubbery and breaks.

That does appear to be what I have happening here. Speaking of fuel, can you tell me what type of fuel & additives I should use? I'm finding the specs, but also seeing the thread about Ethanol and I don't think there's Ethanol-free gas anywhere near where I live.

[rdarlington]

Yeah, the cheap stuff works fine. I pump 86 but I think most places that aren't at 7400 feet above sealevel have 87 octane.

Maybe a bottle of Techron once a year if you don't pump at Chevron stations.

If there's something in gas messing with the o-rings, I can tell ya right now it's not ethanol (or your o-rings are made out of something other than buna-n (nitrile) rubber or Viton.

If you have old gas in there that sat a while, get into the tank and inspect it and make sure it's clean before starting up the engine.

-Bob

[rdarlington]

Also, just found this:

http://support.delorean.com/KB/a15/best-gas-to-use.aspx

-Bob

[Rich_NYS]

Yeah, the cheap stuff works fine. I pump 86 but I think most places that aren't at 7400 feet above sealevel have 87 octane.

Maybe a bottle of Techron once a year if you don't pump at Chevron stations.

If there's something in gas messing with the o-rings, I can tell ya right now it's not ethanol (or your o-rings are made out of something other than buna-n (nitrile) rubber or Viton.

If you have old gas in there that sat a while, get into the tank and inspect it and make sure it's clean before starting up the engine.

-Bob

Would higher octane better? We have Texaco 91 nearby, I use it in my motorcycle. I'll try that Techron, thanks!

I don't think there's old gas, the PO had it running when I first looked at the car and had a few different test-drivers. Low-fuel light went on when I drove it, but shows 1/8-1/4 tank now. He claims it was started no less than once per month during its 10-year storage. It starts easily and runs smooth.

[Rich_NYS]

Also, just found this:

http://support.delorean.com/KB/a15/best-gas-to-use.aspx

-Bob

Excellent....thanks man!

[Rich]

24540

Welcome to the thrill of ownership - congrats on the successful acquisition.

Forum members: Did we see a recent thread on those orange-colored replacement fuel lines, how they go bad and how to deal with them? Anybody got a link to that for this owner?

[rdarlington]

Would higher octane better? We have Texaco 91 nearby, I use it in my motorcycle. I'll try that Techron, thanks!

I don't think there's old gas, the PO had it running when I first looked at the car and had a few different test-drivers. Low-fuel light went on when I drove it, but shows 1/8-1/4 tank now. He claims it was started no less than once per month during its 10-year storage. It starts easily and runs smooth.

In a word, no. The octane rating is a measure of resistance to predetonation. They add chemicals to the gas to make it harder to ignite. This is used for engines with higher compression ratios. When you compress a gas it will get hot -think chapter 5 in just about every chemistry textbook on the market. There is a pressure, volume, and temperature relationship for all gasses including the fuel/air mix in your engine. Compress it enough and it goes bang like in a diesel engine. This is really really bad for gasoline engines. Because there are several different engines on the market with different compression ratios, there are also different octane ratings available. There is no reason to use anything higher than what works without causing predetonation. Ever. And in some cases it can be bad for your engine.

That said, if you have a turbo or super charger, you actually might need 91 or whatever does the job.

[Mark D]

You can cut the Teflon off with a razor blade, just be careful not to scratch the barbs. Replacement hoses are now typically a high pressure rubber fuel injection line.

We have seen a bunch of those orange lines failing recently, apparently they are good for about 10-15 years, or something in modern gas is getting to them. The Teflon just gets rubbery and breaks.


+1 on Dave's comment. I had the same orange hoses on my car from the PO and the inner part of the hose failed just past the barb fitting on the pressure side of the pump. It could have been quite a disaster had it failed while I was on the road. I was in the process of replacing the old hoses with new rubber from DMCMW and the old ones pretty much crumbled in my hands as I was removing them.

[Rich_NYS]

If I need to use heat on the hoses, is it a heat gun that's recommended? Heat + fuel....seems counterintuitive -haha!

[NightFlyer]

As others have already said, 1) those orange hoses have been failing en mass and definitely need to be replaced; and 2) you should be able to easily razor blade the old lines off the hard line barbs if they won't pull off.

As far as replacement goes, just go down to your local auto parts store and pick up several feet of 5/16" ID (inner diameter) fuel hose - I personally like Gates brand rubber fuel hoses. Then cut to desired length and install with the existing hose clamps. Should be extremely cheap and relatively easy.

As the car is immediately starting up and running smooth, I wouldn't worry about pulling the pump and inspecting the tank, as it's not really necessary. If you did want to peak in the tank though, do so via the fuel sender hole, which is much easier to remove and reinstall than the pump.

One thing that you may want to consider doing 'while you're in there' is adding an external inline check value on the replacement fuel feed hose. Although not absolutely necessary in your case, it could help to prevent future fuel system issues or at least make such issues all that more easier to diagnose. For more about this, you can check out these threads:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?8085-Hot-start-problem-resolved-due-to-failed-check-valve-in-the-DMCH-fuel-pump

http://www.dmctoday.com/showthread.php?276-K-Jet-DMCH-Fuel-Pump-Sender-Combo-External-Inline-Check-Valves

And no - higher octane fuel won't make a difference other than costing you more money. The stock/OEM nylon core hoses held up over time better than those fancy orange Teflon lined hoses have - something in modern fuel is wreaking havoc on Teflon.

Best of luck and have fun - you'll have this car whipped into shape in no time :strongman:

[Rich_NYS]

I noticed the fuel pump cover seal feels pretty stiff so I'm planning to replace it, but not sure what other rubber parts I should consider replacing. I don't want to be penny-wise, but I also know that sometimes there are things best left alone.

Definitely will add that check-valve.

Is there anything else that's wise to replace while I'm in there?

[NightFlyer]

I noticed the fuel pump cover seal feels pretty stiff so I'm planning to replace it, but not sure what other rubber parts I should consider replacing. I don't want to be penny-wise, but I also know that sometimes there are things best left alone.

Definitely will add that check-valve.

Is there anything else that's wise to replace while I'm in there?

The fuel pump cover is usually somewhat stiff, as it's a rubber/plastic hybrid type of material.

As previously mentioned, I'd remove the fuel sender in order to take a look-see in the tank. Provided that you don't see any chunks or black cloudiness in the fuel presently in the tank, then I personally wouldn't worry about the tank rubber, as it was most likely replaced with high quality Nitrile/Viton when the orange hoses were added (roughly 10-15 years ago), and thus good for another 15-20 years.

Check the fuel accumulator for potentially more orange hoses that will need replacement. Other than that, the only other thing you'll want to do with the fuel system out of necessity is change the fuel filter.

Have fun! :)

[LordFly]

I noticed the fuel pump cover seal feels pretty stiff

You're probably looking at the cover. The seal is under it, and holds the fuel pump. You'll see when you take it off.

Also, don't trust your gas gauge, it's pretty common for them not to work. I'm one of the lucky ones and mine does, but it seems to be a rarity. The low fuel light however is not directly related to the gauge, so it may work even though the gauge doesn't.

[David T]

I would peel the top cover open and inspect the top of the pump. It should be dry and not rusty. I would then lift the pump out and inspect the tank and the pick-up hose. You should not see any dirt or bubbles of water floating around and the pick-up hose should not be soft or swollen. Be careful putting the pump back so you do not turn it and kink the pick-up hose. If you see ANY dirt or water in the tank, or it smells bad, it should be drained and wiped out. If the pump boot or the cover boot is hard or the rubber rubs off you should replace them. My theory is most of your fuel system problems begin IN the fuel tank. Get it clean and all of the parts inside in good condition and you will have a trouble-free fuel system as long as you keep the fuel fresh.

[Rich_NYS]

Good advice, thanks!

I ordered the check-valve, will get the hose tonight, and prepare to look inside the tank.

This weekend I'll check the lines to the accumulator and confirm the cause of the exhaust leak.

When I order parts for the exhaust leak, I'll also order a fuel filter.

Thanks again!

[Rich_NYS]

I would peel the top cover open and inspect the top of the pump. It should be dry and not rusty.

I looked under the cover last night and it wasn't at all dry....plenty of gas that I could see. I'm thinking it might be from the leaking hose, but if not, that might be something else I need to look into. I'll check before & after I replace the hoses.

So, is the fuel pump cover seal is just for keeping crap out of where the fuel pump is? Mine has a large hose clamp around it, that's why I ask.

[Kane]

Just remember that a lit match is great for seeing down into that dark fuel system.

[NightFlyer]

I looked under the cover last night and it wasn't at all dry....plenty of gas that I could see. I'm thinking it might be from the leaking hose, but if not, that might be something else I need to look into. I'll check before & after I replace the hoses.

So, is the fuel pump cover seal is just for keeping crap out of where the fuel pump is? Mine has a large hose clamp around it, that's why I ask.

Correct - just for keeping crap out of the top of the pump/boot assembly. The gas present is most likely from the leaky hoses. The hose clamps attaching the hoses to the cover and the cover to the tank/boot lip are all there just to keep moisture and crap off the top of the pump/boot assembly. Many early cars didn't have those clamps -mine didn't.

http://store.delorean.com/images/Category/large/2-1-0.jpg

[Rich_NYS]

As others have already said, 1) those orange hoses have been failing en mass and definitely need to be replaced; and 2) you should be able to easily razor blade the old lines off the hard line barbs if they won't pull off.

As far as replacement goes, just go down to your local auto parts store and pick up several feet of 5/16" ID (inner diameter) fuel hose - I personally like Gates brand rubber fuel hoses. Then cut to desired length and install with the existing hose clamps. Should be extremely cheap and relatively easy.

I had a few different choices at the auto parts store: "regular" or "fuel injection" for rubber hoses, also some fancy/special crimp kinda hose. I wanted the fuel injection rubber hose, but they were out. I'm thinking of the correct hose, right? (rubber fuel injection hose, not fancy/special crimp kinda hose.)

The existing orange lines are on the hard lines with no clamps, can/should I add hose clamps to the replacement lines? I know I'll need them for the check valve, but how about where the replacement hoses connect to the hard lines & fuel pump? I've actually performed this type of operation several times years ago when working at my father's repair garage, but seeing those orange lines/no clamps really threw me a curve!

[Bitsyncmaster]

I had a few different choices at the auto parts store: "regular" or "fuel injection" for rubber hoses, also some fancy/special crimp kinda hose. I wanted the fuel injection rubber hose, but they were out. I'm thinking of the correct hose, right? (rubber fuel injection hose, not fancy/special crimp kinda hose.)

The existing orange lines are on the hard lines with no clamps, can/should I add hose clamps to the replacement lines? I know I'll need them for the check valve, but how about where the replacement hoses connect to the hard lines & fuel pump? I've actually performed this type of operation several times years ago when working at my father's repair garage, but seeing those orange lines/no clamps really threw me a curve!

There are two types of rubber fuel injection hose. One is for EFI injection that runs at 40 to 50 PSI and the other is for our injection that runs at 75 PSI. So make sure you get hose rated for 100 PSI (working pressure). And yes you will need the clamps made for fuel injection hose.

[David T]

You will be needing things that are difficult to find locally so you will be ordering from your favorite vender. make up a list and get the hoses from them. Also get filters, air, fuel and oil. The fuel also gets around the pump because the pump gets corroded and the boot leaks or the boot is leaky.Sometimes it is not fuel but that boot is full of water. Pull the pump and remove the boot. If the pump is all rusty clean it up. If it is really bad replace it. If the frame holding the pump is rusty clean it up and paint it. You need that large clamp to hold things together. You can use zip ties where the small hoses come out of the cover boot.

[Rich]

You can cut the Teflon off with a razor blade, just be careful not to scratch the barbs. Replacement hoses are now typically a high pressure rubber fuel injection line.

We have seen a bunch of those orange lines failing recently, apparently they are good for about 10-15 years, or something in modern gas is getting to them. The Teflon just gets rubbery and breaks.

I found the recent thread where the orange Teflon replacement lines from Grady circa 1998 are pointed out as troublesome, that anybody who has them on their D should get them replaced and some of the finer points about replacement, too. Much the same input from the gang here, mostly by same authors. All good stuff.


LINK: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?8409 (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?8409)

Orange fuel line discussion starts around Post #15 in that thread.

[Rich_NYS]

A lot of good info, thanks....

About the hoses; the existing orange have no clamps, but I'll need clamps with the replacements. Why do the existing hoses have no clamps?

I'm gonna start tearin' shit apart tonite and I'll get some pics. I want to see if John D's signature is at the bottom of my tank!

[Bill6298]

A lot of good info, thanks....

About the hoses; the existing orange have no clamps, but I'll need clamps with the replacements. Why do the existing hoses have no clamps?

I'm gonna start tearin' shit apart tonite and I'll get some pics. I want to see if John D's signature is at the bottom of my tank!

Based on my experience getting those orange hoses off, there's something just different about the rigidity of both the inner and outer tube. I recall reading that some folks had to use heat just to get them on. I don't know for sure but have assumed they were just designed that way (e.g. clampless).

If you're already going to need other parts, I'll second the idea that you should call Dave or Julee at DMCMW and just get the ones that are known to be correct. That's what I did. I didn't want to worry about the pressure rating and size. I've been told the inner diameter is 1/4" and 5/16".

Oh yeah, don't use crappy shop towels from Harbor Freight to wipe out the tank with acetone. Use something that's not going to leave a lot of debris behind.

[DMCMW Dave]

I'm thinking of the correct hose, right? (rubber fuel injection hose, not fancy/special crimp kinda hose.)

The existing orange lines are on the hard lines with no clamps, can/should I add hose clamps to the replacement lines? I know I'll need them for the check valve, but how about where the replacement hoses connect to the hard lines & fuel pump? I've actually performed this type of operation several times years ago when working at my father's repair garage, but seeing those orange lines/no clamps really threw me a curve!

Yes you need fuel injection style clamps. And be 100% sure that the new hose is labeled "fuel injection" and has a PSI rating >100. . . .There is fuel hose and then there is fuel injection hose. . . . . .

[Rich_NYS]

I took out the sending unit and shined a light into the tank.

It really doesn't look bad; I can see all the components inside the tank and aside from some tiny specks of stuff at the bottom it looks good. The PO claimed he started it 1-2 times per month and judging by what I see here I believe fuel was cycled through it regularly.

FWIW, I think the fuel gauge is accurate. It seems to jive with the amount I see in the tank. When I first looked at the car, it ran low on fuel (due to this leak) and the low fuel light came on.

I might still drain it anyway and take more stuff apart....I'm in that kinda mood -haha! :wrenchin:

I'll get some pics up soon...

[Rich_NYS]

Here are pics of the failed hoses, tank components & a view inside the tank. The tank is 1/4 full (or less.)

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I couldn't find a hose long enough to siphon the tank, I'll get what I need this weekend and drain the tank if needed. Is it a hassle to remove everything from the tank?

What's your opinion on the amount of tank debris you can see in the pic? I'm planning to clean it out, but interested to know what you guys think about it.

Thanks!

[Rich_NYS]

Provided that you don't see any chunks or black cloudiness in the fuel presently in the tank, then I personally wouldn't worry about the tank rubber, as it was most likely replaced with high quality Nitrile/Viton when the orange hoses were added (roughly 10-15 years ago), and thus good for another 15-20 years.

Check the fuel accumulator for potentially more orange hoses that will need replacement. Other than that, the only other thing you'll want to do with the fuel system out of necessity is change the fuel filter.

Have fun! :)

I think you're right on with this...things look pretty good in the pics, right?

[DMC5180]

I think you're right on with this...things look pretty good in the pics, right?

Is it me or is the FEED hose inner teflon crumbling and clogging the the line? The return Line looks OPEN and CLEAN, but then there is no pressure in that line ever just flow.

Hmm, this makes me want to change out My circa 1996 Orange (Grady) hoses even though they show no signs of leaking YET as preventative measure.

Rich, FWIW you have an OEM or Original style (DOME NUT) fuel pump. Nothing to worry about as long as the system was exercised on a semi-frequent basis. The old GERMAN made pumps are much better than the outsourced replacements as long as the fuel system was not gunked up over the years.

[DMCMW Dave]

Hmm, this makes me want to change out My circa 1996 Orange (-) hoses even though they show no signs of leaking YET as preventative measure.
.

I would recommend that you do that before you drive to Dayton. . . .

[DMCMW Dave]

What's your opinion on the amount of tank debris you can see in the pic? I'm planning to clean it out, but interested to know what you guys think about it.

Thanks!

That tank really looks pretty good (rusticles probably from the filler neck). I'd still drain it and wipe it out, but you've dodged the "black tar" problem that people often see. Based on the condition I'd say this is/was a routinely driven car.

[LordFly]

I looked under the cover last night and it wasn't at all dry....plenty of gas that I could see.

Inspect the fuel pump itself very carefully. Mine corroded on the outside of the housing and eventually made it's way through. Started spitting gas out the side of the fuel pump. Check it while the car is running and just make sure gas isn't leaking out the side of the pump :)

[David T]

Inspect the fuel pump itself very carefully. Mine corroded on the outside of the housing and eventually made it's way through. Started spitting gas out the side of the fuel pump. Check it while the car is running and just make sure gas isn't leaking out the side of the pump :)


As long as you are this far into it I would take it all apart, clean it all up and inspect. It is difficult to inspect the filter in the baffle without taking it all apart. Take pictures and make notes so you can reassemble it correctly. You have to disassemble and reassemble the baffle assembly IN the tank one-handed. And get the spring wires in it correctly. Do not overtighten the nut on the bottom of the tank. You can rip it loose. Use Acetone to clean up any sludge. Do not mix up the hoses, return and feed. If you do the motor will not run. Be very attentive to the position of the pick-up hose. It kinks very easily if you rotate the pump. You can always stick a spring inside. I use a screen door spring from Lowes. The shiny brass particles you see are from the innards of the fuel pump. Your tank looks pretty clean, probably because when the hoses were installed everything was cleaned up and kept clean.

[Rich_NYS]

Is it me or is the FEED hose inner teflon crumbling and clogging the the line? The return Line looks OPEN and CLEAN, but then there is no pressure in that line ever just flow.

Hmm, this makes me want to change out My circa 1996 Orange (Grady) hoses even though they show no signs of leaking YET as preventative measure.

Rich, FWIW you have an OEM or Original style (DOME NUT) fuel pump. Nothing to worry about as long as the system was exercised on a semi-frequent basis. The old GERMAN made pumps are much better than the outsourced replacements as long as the fuel system was not gunked up over the years.


Pretty crazy -lookin' eh? A few times in this thread there is mention of the issues with this type of hose and Rich links to another thread in post 29.




That tank really looks pretty good (rusticles probably from the filler neck). I'd still drain it and wipe it out, but you've dodged the "black tar" problem that people often see. Based on the condition I'd say this is/was a routinely driven car.


Thanks Dave, some of the particles appear [to me] to be pieces of the inner part of the fuel hose. Maybe came in on the return line? The PO claims it just came out of 11 year storage but was started 1-4 times per month.




As long as you are this far into it I would take it all apart, clean it all up and inspect. It is difficult to inspect the filter in the baffle without taking it all apart. Take pictures and make notes so you can reassemble it correctly. You have to disassemble and reassemble the baffle assembly IN the tank one-handed. And get the spring wires in it correctly. Do not overtighten the nut on the bottom of the tank. You can rip it loose. Use Acetone to clean up any sludge. Do not mix up the hoses, return and feed. If you do the motor will not run. Be very attentive to the position of the pick-up hose. It kinks very easily if you rotate the pump. You can always stick a spring inside. I use a screen door spring from Lowes. The shiny brass particles you see are from the innards of the fuel pump. Your tank looks pretty clean, probably because when the hoses were installed everything was cleaned up and kept clean.

I'll likely dig into it tonite if I get time to pick up the hose I need to siphon/pump the tank. This is my first experience working on a DeLorean, but so far doesn't look bad at all. I've replaced several gas tanks, pumps, sending units....etc. on various cars, but haven't yet familiarized with the components inside this tank. I'll be doing some searching, but if anyone is aware of a good thread on it, please post.

Thanks!

[DeLorean03]

Moved to appropriate sub-forum.

[Rich_NYS]

Made it to the auto parts store on my way home.....

Gates 5/16' ID, 225 PSI.

Size 6 fuel injection hose clamps.

8' of hose for my siphon pump.

[Rich_NYS]

I'm pretty happy with the way the tank is looking, so I'm doing a lot of looking but not so much disassembling. I've been concerned about some of the debris I saw in there last night and I believe it to be pieces of the deteriorating hoses, so I decided to use a siphon pump to "vacuum" out the pieces. I also pulled the return off and moved the pump more out of the way to get a good look inside the tank. I wanted to learn about the components inside and become as familiar as possible with the car each time I work on it.

I've been worried that some of that crud from the hoses could've got into the pump's pressure side outlet, so I connected a hose to the pressure side & ran it into a bucket....the pump puked up a bunch of the crap I was worried about....sure glad I did that!

Check out the pics of the crud and also the condition of the everything:

245822458324584


I'm going to put everything back together, install the new hoses, and check the lines going to the accumulator.

Note: the new hoses (5/16) go onto the barbs without much effort, is that ok? I don't recall fuel hose going onto a hard line so easily, but it's been >20 years since I changed one....

[David T]

I'm pretty happy with the way the tank is looking, so I'm doing a lot of looking but not so much disassembling. I've been concerned about some of the debris I saw in there last night and I believe it to be pieces of the deteriorating hoses, so I decided to use a siphon pump to "vacuum" out the pieces. I also pulled the return off and moved the pump more out of the way to get a good look inside the tank. I wanted to learn about the components inside and become as familiar as possible with the car each time I work on it.

I've been worried that some of that crud from the hoses could've got into the pump's pressure side outlet, so I connected a hose to the pressure side & ran it into a bucket....the pump puked up a bunch of the crap I was worried about....sure glad I did that!

Check out the pics of the crud and also the condition of the everything:

245822458324584


I'm going to put everything back together, install the new hoses, and check the lines going to the accumulator.

Note: the new hoses (5/16) go onto the barbs without much effort, is that ok? I don't recall fuel hose going onto a hard line so easily, but it's been >20 years since I changed one....

The barbs are designed to fit properly on a certain type of hose. Mixing up fittings and hoses is not a good idea. Using hose clamps is like using a band-aid. If you are not certain the barbs are for the hose you should replace then with the correct type for the hose you are using. With the high pressures involved it is important you use the correct stuff. That is why it is recommended you buy from the venders. They have already done the research. For more information on the fuel baffle see ST-30-12/81

[NightFlyer]

Everything is looking great thus far and pretty much as originally anticipated!

The crud definitely appears to be disintegrating teflon lining from the old hoses - those who purchased the teflon lined braided stainless fuel injection hoses for the engine bay should take note. It's why I personally prefer good old heavy duty nylon cored fuel injection hoses for our engine bay application.

Anyway, the Gates hose you picked up sounds perfect. And yeah, the fit sounds about right - stock/OEM hoses were plastic/nylon cored, whereas the Gates replacement hose really doesn't have an inner core, thus fitment on the barbs will be a bit looser, generally speaking. No worries - just use some fuel hose specific hose clamps and you'll be good to go.

As to why the orange hoses didn't have clamps securing them to the hardline barbs, there's one of two possibilities - 1) they were pressure-formed / crimped on; or 2) they were thermo-coupled on. My guess is that they were thermo-coupled on, which is why some have problems removing them, preferring heat to a razor blade. As the Gates replacement hose doesn't really have an inner core, you're pretty much limited to using a good old fashion hose clamp for securing them to the hardline barbs. Just be sure that you have the clamps tightly secured to the widest part of the (hose over) barb, and you'll be ready to rock-and-roll.

Keep up the great work :thumbup:

[Rich_NYS]

The barbs are designed to fit properly on a certain type of hose. Mixing up fittings and hoses is not a good idea. Using hose clamps is like using a band-aid. If you are not certain the barbs are for the hose you should replace then with the correct type for the hose you are using. With the high pressures involved it is important you use the correct stuff. That is why it is recommended you buy from the venders. They have already done the research. For more information on the fuel baffle see ST-30-12/81

I looked over that service bulletin, it helped me learn more about the design, thanks. My baffle looks pretty good in the pic, right?

I'm not sure I follow where you stand on hose clamps, the DMC parts diagram shows a hose clamp at each fuel hose connection. I'm not at all familiar with the "push on" style except for the two I just took off. Although I understand the issue was with the hose itself, I'd say I'm not in favor of using a non-hose clamp design.

Everything seems to jive, the repair seems A-OK, and I'm happy with the results :burnout:

Thanks for all your helpful input!

[DeLorean03]

This is just me; it is not law or "the way". At 70psi-80psi, I wouldn't trust the hoses to just "stay on". I'd be installing some high-pressure fuel hose clamps on each side.


Ask me why........

[Rich_NYS]

This is just me; it is not law or "the way". At 70psi-80psi, I wouldn't trust the hoses to just "stay on". I'd be installing some high-pressure fuel hose clamps on each side.


Ask me why........

Hose clamps are the law around these parts, yo... :gun:

I used Gates 5/16' ID 225 PSI rubber FI hose and size 6 fuel injection hose clamps. I have a check valve on the way and will install it this week.

[DMCMW Dave]

Hose clamps are the law around these parts, yo... :gun:

I used Gates 5/16' ID 225 PSI rubber FI hose and size 6 fuel injection hose clamps. I have a check valve on the way and will install it this week.

The older OEM hardlines and the orange lines were Teflon that had to be stretched/heated to fit and were OK without clamps. The typical rubber hose now needs clamps.

[NightFlyer]

The older OEM hardlines and the orange lines were Teflon that had to be stretched/heated to fit and were OK without clamps. The typical rubber hose now needs clamps.

OK - as suspected, the orange hoses were thermocoupled to the hardline barbs.

As a side note, I feel it's worth mentioning again. Many of the stock/OEM plastic/nylon cored fuel-hoses/softlines have lasted well over 30 years without issue, and often times when an issue does occur, it's with the hose-to-fitting (either banjo or barb) union and not so much the integrity of the hose itself (yes, there are a few cases of hoses themselves going bad, but non-mishandled stock/OEM fuel hose seems to hold up rather well over time, even with modern ethanol blended fuel, at least when compared to the teflon lined/cored stuff). Seeing what happens to the orange teflon lined/cored fuel hoses over 10-15 years doesn't exactly instill confidence in the use of teflon in our fuel systems (not sure if it's something in the fuel, the pressure, or a possible combination of the two, as teflon lined/cored hoses seem to be highly regarded as top-of-the-line stuff and supposedly superior to standard nylon cored in the automotive world in general).

Anyway, I'm not sure what other vendors are basing their braided stainless fuel-hoses/softlines upon, but according to Hervey's website, SpecialTAuto's offering is:


Hand made Stainless Steel fuel lines using Teflon hose. (emphasis added)

Food for thought...

[NightFlyer]

My baffle looks pretty good in the pic, right?

Looks great to me :thumbup:

[Rich_NYS]

Looks great to me :thumbup:

Excellent! I keep getting good news around every turn so far.

Today I refilled the gas tank and took a ride around the neighborhood. Everything around the fuel hoses is nice & dry now.
The fuel gauge & low fuel light work, and the horrid brake squeal is gone now since I rode the brakes a bit.