new guy with a few silly questions

[movieman1026]

Hi all,
I'm looking for a Delorean to be my next vehicle, and given its notorious lack of performance I'm trying to figure out what the best options are for my future car. Its my hope / goal to make it a car I'll be driving and, if need be, rebuilding for 10+ years to come, so I want a feel for what can be done now to bring a D up to more modern performance specs.

Does anyone here have experience with the stage III DMC upgrade motor? Anyone running that with an automatic? (I suck on a clutch, will prolly be driving her in SF and LA traffic alot) by the numbers it looks like power wise that would fall in line with my pals 2010 bmw 328i.

Are transmission swaps possible/feasible with the DMC's frame? in an ideal world I'd throw a paddle shifted DSG in the car, but from the photos and diagrams I've seen of the undercarriage, it seems like theres a high probability to need to cut on the frame.

has anyone had any luck with motor swaps to get closer to 300bhp? any beyond? any luck in terms of maintenance on any motor swaps? If I commit to a motor swap, I want to make sure I havent condemned myself to a world of hurt in terms of maintenance and support.

Thanks all, and I look forward to getting to know some of you here on the forum!
-rob

[sdg3205]

Hey rob.

Welcome! There is a TON of information on engine swaps around here. There are few in progress right now including a VR6. A search will also show you a twin turbo PRV project.

Run some searches. You'll find all your answers. Yes, automatic and manual frames are slightly different and would require some mods.

There have been a bunch of engine swaps. Ill bet nearly half no longer run properly if at all like the grand national, rotary and North Star swap.

If you want a fast performance car by 2014 standards the Delorean is not for you. If you want an awesome car by any standard, then start watching for the right Delorean. We don't drive fast, we drive awesome.

[DeLorean03]

Hey Rob,

You'll want to talk to Eddie Ghesquiere and Nick Roedl - both of them are here at DMCTalk.

Eddie goes by 82dmc-12; Nick goes by Nicholas R.

Nick is well known here for having successfully installed a LS1 motor into the DMC's engine bay and mating it to the DMC's stock 5-speed trans.

Eddie is known as the community's turbo expert, and that goes far beyond his knowledge with the DMC. He is known for successfully installing a Toyota Supra 2JZ engine into his old DeLorean, and mating that engine with the stock 5-speed trans. He is also the man responsible for the aforementioned ongoing VR6 swap, which is currently being done to my DeLorean at this thread: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7884-Turbo-VR6-DeLorean

There a number of other unique engine swaps such as the Northstar engine, multiple 4.3L Chevy Vortec engines, a small block 350, a VQ35 engine, and still others.

Respectfully, I would say Eddie and Nick are the ones that are the most active here on the the forums.

Hope that helps!

[movieman1026]

Thanks for the reply! I'm definitely watching the VR6 thread, its what got me to join the forum actually.

perhaps I should rephrase, I'm not necessarily looking for a "performance" car, just something thats a more peppy than my prius (which the stock dmc's at wheel HP is nearly equal to), nice enough that I can pick up clients in, and peppy enough to zip around mind numbing traffic if need be. So improved performance, not a Ferrari in DMC clothing (yet... the potential of the DMC EV does intrigue me though).

And I'm totally down with the driving awesome. my current hobby/hauling truck is a rebuild military humvee that I take great pleasure in cruising down telegraph ave in Berkeley when coming back from work lol. That ol girl also aint too fast, 0-60 in maybe 20 seconds?

I'll definitely look around more though.

thank you sir!

Also, if anybody has any experience with the stage III motor and why they did/didnt opt for it that would be fantastic!

[sdg3205]

You can talk to Toby at Dmc northwest. He has installed one of the few stage 3s.

[mluder]

We don't drive fast, we drive awesome.

+1

Cheers
Steve

[DMCMW Dave]

Have you driven one yet? I find it amusing when people criticize the performance but have never been in one. A stock DMC will still blow the doors off a Prius .

[Tomcio]

Have you driven one yet? I find it amusing when people criticize the performance but have never been in one. A stock DMC will still blow the doors off a Prius .

Your question should read:
Have you driven one that is properly maintained?
I hear people complain how slow their car is and then I had some so surprised that my car is so fast being 100% stock. Most will tell you that a DeLorean does 0-60 in about 10.5 seconds. Mine, on numerous occasions got 8 seconds flat. OK, it's not supercar fast but it's not econobox slow either. I'm happy with 8 seconds and I consider it pretty good.

[Lou and "Boo"]

We don't drive fast, we drive awesome.

I drive fast AND awesome, thank you very much!

[sdg3205]

My bad! I drive awesome and a slightly above average rate. I should not have generalized!

[OverlandMan]

Have you driven one yet? I find it amusing when people criticize the performance but have never been in one. A stock DMC will still blow the doors off a Prius .

I was thinking the same thing. Just drive a stock setup and then you have something to compare. I remember driving mine the first time and thinking to myself "This thing has plenty of pep". I think I too had been poisoned by the negative performance press that this car has had from day one.

I also agree that if you want to do smokey burnouts, look for something different.

[Lou and "Boo"]

Oh yes, Deloreans are not for burning out, but here's one smokey burnout who loves driving fast and awesome! LOL

[refugeefromcalif]

I remember driving mine the first time and thinking to myself "This thing has plenty of pep". I think I too had been poisoned by the negative performance press that this car has had from day one.


People always ask me if the DeLorean is Fast. I tell them No but, it is very Peppy. :approve:
If I wanted a fast car I would've bought something else.

George

(Funny, when I'm first in line at a stop light, I tend to be 5 car lengths ahead of the rest of them after it turns green)...

[opethmike]

My honest take on it is that a stock DeLorean is perfectly useable in modern traffic, but it is VERY pedestrian acceleration wise. Mine was stock until two years ago, and during its time stock it felt exactly like my 99 Saturn SL1.

I did heads, cams, exhaust, and EFI on the stock motor. I don't know how much horsepower gain that is (I call a HUGE bullshit on the purported 197 out of Houston's stage 2), but it is now 'almost quick'. However, with the cams and exhaust, the sound is tremendous and brings a huge smile to my face.

The stage 3 setup is stupid expensive at around 13 grand to get less than 200 at the wheels. If you have that kind of money to spend on improving the horsepower, spend it with Eddie G. in Florida and you'll make out WAY better.

However, honestly, the first few years you have a DeLorean you're going to want to be spending that time and money on bringing it up to snuff as far as brakes, transmission, tune-up, cosmetics, etc.

[Nicholas R]

I drive fast AND awesome, thank you very much!

I just drive fast :biggrin: :wink:

Anything can be done, the hardest part is deciding what to do and how committed you actually are (time wise, effort wide, and monetarily).

[Lightning]

My honest take on it is that a stock DeLorean is perfectly useable in modern traffic, but it is VERY pedestrian acceleration wise. Mine was stock until two years ago, and during its time stock it felt exactly like my 99 Saturn SL1.

I did heads, cams, exhaust, and EFI on the stock motor. I don't know how much horsepower gain that is (I call a HUGE bullshit on the purported 197 out of Houston's stage 2), but it is now 'almost quick'. However, with the cams and exhaust, the sound is tremendous and brings a huge smile to my face.

The stage 3 setup is stupid expensive at around 13 grand to get less than 200 at the wheels. If you have that kind of money to spend on improving the horsepower, spend it with Eddie G. in Florida and you'll make out WAY better.

However, honestly, the first few years you have a DeLorean you're going to want to be spending that time and money on bringing it up to snuff as far as brakes, transmission, tune-up, cosmetics, etc.

This is very true. I am only now doing an engine upgrade on mine and have had it for 10 years. Granted mine needed a lot of work to bring it up to par, and I'm still doing things to make it better, but if you have money for a stage 3, talk to Eddie, you'll be happier in the long run. Just as a note, I'm getting a turbo on my stock, I'll let you know the performance at the wheels when he's done so you can compare what was done with a stock engine and I know he could do more if I tossed more money his way.

[Lou and "Boo"]

My bad! I drive awesome and a slightly above average rate. I should not have generalized!

No problem Dave! We are all driving awesome !
Cheers from over heres.

[Rich W]

There have been a bunch of engine swaps. Ill bet nearly half no longer run properly if at all like the grand national, rotary and North Star swap.


Not sure about the Rotary (3-rotor) and the NorthStar, but there are at least a few Grand National swaps (Buick 3.8L Turbo V6) including mine.
I believe there are two or three "single turbo" (like the Grand National) and at least one "twin turbo" (never offered as a twin turbo in the GN).

Like any DeLorean, these engine swap cars need to be driven and maintained to be reliable, but many of these engine swap cars are just "toys"
that are not driven as much as they should be or could be driven (I admit I am guilty of not driving my Grand National powered car enough too).

My personal recommendation would be to test drive a Stage II with an automatic. A friend of mine has been running this setup since May 2012
and he has been very happy with the results, especially when stuck in traffic, and he is used to daily driving a few Mercedes with 250-350 HP.

I have driven this DeLorean, before and after the swap, and it certainly did "wake up" the performance, while keeping it fairly stock appearing.

[DeLorean03]

I dont understand how someone gets an engine swap done (expen$ive), and then it's just a toy. When I get mine back - dude - you can bet I am going to drive that car and enjoy it like the 1st day I got my DeLorean.

[Lightning]

Delorean03: I agree, mine is part of my effort to have a daily driver that I want to drive and at the same time pick up and move when I want it to.

[Rich W]

Unfortunately, not everyone can drive a DeLorean all-year-round, primarily due to three things: location, location, location.

Although Bryan Pearce drove his stainless steel framed DeLorean through every season in the Chicago area for over 15 years, the Winters
(especially the road salt) took its toll on the other non-stainless chassis parts over that time and he has had to replace many chassis parts.

Living in the "Rust Belt" limits most regular DeLorean driving to April through November (or less) depending upon the year. Even though I know
my Grand National DeLorean would have been almost "running cool" when it was -20 degrees two weeks ago. Between the severe cold, snow,
ice, sleet and road salt, it's not a great combination of weather to be driving a High HP DeLorean (at least not during four months of the year).
Even though I limit most of my DeLorean driving to 6-8 months a year, due to location, maybe "toy" was not the right word for the limited use.

I envy those DeLorean owners living/driving in the Sun Belt. On the other hand, it is only two more months until the first full day of Spring.

[DeLorean03]

I'll know a thing or two about that soon with the turbo VR6 being here in Dayton. Still doesn't explain to me why engine swaps aren't prominent more all over the web. I can get on Youtube, sneeze, and there's 20+ videos of DeLoreans breaking down. Let's reverse the trend - let's get some awesome videos of engine swapped DeLoreans running the streets.

Good example: that Grand Buick V6 was in California - hardly a state known for its "brutal winters" - and it just sat for months. That was a horribly missed opportunity to make the DeLorean shine, and what we got out of it was one of the worst bait-and-switch videos; the "world's fastest DeLorean" breaking down on the side of the road.

[DMCMW Dave]

Living in the "Rust Belt" limits most regular DeLorean driving to April through November (or less) depending upon the year. .

I had a Chicago-based owner drive his car home last night. His comment seeing all the cars in the shop was "I can't believe all these people don't drive the cars in the winter". To each his own. I know of at least two owners in the area currently driving the cars.

His car is a very good study in the effects of road salt on DeLorean parts though.

[vwdmc16]

Agreed about the performance, The D will never be as quick and solid as a new BMW like the E92 the Op talked about, (and this is coming from me, a BMW mechanic that has driven alot of those cars) without a huge amount of custom fabrication and redesign of drive train and suspension. However if you lower your expectations after driving a nicely tuned stock D, Its possible to make a good compromise with a moderate build up (EFI and turbo or similar) that will do just about all you would ever want and be the funnest car you own.


If you want a wicked fast car to blow the doors off other fast cars at the lights or the track, get a souped up Corvette/Mustang/Mopar thing. If you really want a Delorean to do the exact same thing and still look something like a Delorean, go buy one and take it to a very capable Hot Rodding shop and tell them how fast you want to go but DO NOT even think of complaining when they hand you a $50,000-100,000 bill.

[movieman1026]

Have you driven one yet? I find it amusing when people criticize the performance but have never been in one. A stock DMC will still blow the doors off a Prius .

alas not yet, DMC CA didnt have any vehicles available to test drive (they were all client cars).

[movieman1026]

Not sure about the Rotary (3-rotor) and the NorthStar, but there are at least a few Grand National swaps (Buick 3.8L Turbo V6) including mine.
I believe there are two or three "single turbo" (like the Grand National) and at least one "twin turbo" (never offered as a twin turbo in the GN).

Like any DeLorean, these engine swap cars need to be driven and maintained to be reliable, but many of these engine swap cars are just "toys"
that are not driven as much as they should be or could be driven (I admit I am guilty of not driving my Grand National powered car enough too).

My personal recommendation would be to test drive a Stage II with an automatic. A friend of mine has been running this setup since May 2012
and he has been very happy with the results, especially when stuck in traffic, and he is used to daily driving a few Mercedes with 250-350 HP.

I have driven this DeLorean, before and after the swap, and it certainly did "wake up" the performance, while keeping it fairly stock appearing.

Im definitely not looking for a toy or garage queen. I'll happily buy an owner lunch and/or a spin behind the wheel of my humvee in trade for a quick spin in an auto d!

[LordFly]

His car is a very good study in the effects of road salt on DeLorean parts though.

:shocked: And how is that study going?

[DMCMW Dave]

:shocked: And how is that study going?

Entropy works.


Sent from phone

[dmruschell]

My DD is one of those suped up Corvettes someone mentioned (a 1979), and my manual DPI SPEC II is peppy enough for me. My girlfriend's SPEC II automatic is no slouch either. Just cams and exhaust made a very noticeable difference over stock. DPI also makes a twin turbo setup that is available with the automatic. DMC has their Stage 2 which puts out very similar HP numbers as the SPEC II. DMC-CA used to have their own cams as well (I don't know if they still do though) that you could (I'm assuming) pair with a Stage 1 exhaust if you didn't want to do a full Stage 2 setup.

There are options out there that will give you a good HP boost without breaking the bank or requiring major modifications or an engine swap. It just depends on what your goals are.

[Lightning]

My DD is one of those suped up Corvettes someone mentioned (a 1979), and my manual DPI SPEC II is peppy enough for me. My girlfriend's SPEC II automatic is no slouch either. Just cams and exhaust made a very noticeable difference over stock. DPI also makes a twin turbo setup that is available with the automatic. DMC has their Stage 2 which puts out very similar HP numbers as the SPEC II. DMC-CA used to have their own cams as well (I don't know if they still do though) that you could (I'm assuming) pair with a Stage 1 exhaust if you didn't want to do a full Stage 2 setup.

There are options out there that will give you a good HP boost without breaking the bank or requiring major modifications or an engine swap. It just depends on what your goals are.

Then of course you have me doing a turbo with EFI to the original engine. EFI alone changes the way the car drives.

[SEO Motorsports]

$7,000 for a turn key EFI and a turbo kit installed is still a chunk of change though. I'm sure you will be happy with the results when it's done. :race:

[movieman1026]

$7,000 for a turn key EFI and a turbo kit installed is still a chunk of change though. I'm sure you will be happy with the results when it's done. :race:

whats your feeling on this Eddie? is the cost of upgrading the PRV such that a swap makes more sense? when you do swaps do you configure everything with OBDII compatible sensors and the like?

[SEO Motorsports]

OBDII has nothing to do with the sensors. On Board Diagnostics is a standard CAN protocol that the engine ECU would use to transmit analog or digital sensor/engine information to the rest of the car. The OBD connector that a scanner plugs into is able to read stored information from the ECU or live info on the CAN bus. Most of the engine swaps I do you would just connect your laptop to the ECU and be able to see everything going on. Swaps like the 2JZ that used the stock ECU I was able to connect the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) signal to the lambda light on the dash and it would flash any errors the computer saw. this works only if the ECU has the option.

[DrJeff]

...Swaps like the 2JZ that used the stock ECU I was able to connect the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) signal to the lambda light on the dash and it would flash any errors the computer saw. this works only if the ECU has the option.

I was wondering what to do with the Lambda light... what a most excellent idea!!!

[SEO Motorsports]

I was wondering what to do with the Lambda light... what a most excellent idea!!!


Another idea is to trip the lambda light if your car goes lean on a turbo car.

[movieman1026]

OBDII has nothing to do with the sensors. On Board Diagnostics is a standard CAN protocol that the engine ECU would use to transmit analog or digital sensor/engine information to the rest of the car. The OBD connector that a scanner plugs into is able to read stored information from the ECU or live info on the CAN bus. Most of the engine swaps I do you would just connect your laptop to the ECU and be able to see everything going on. Swaps like the 2JZ that used the stock ECU I was able to connect the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) signal to the lambda light on the dash and it would flash any errors the computer saw. this works only if the ECU has the option.

gotchya, so something like the magasquirt could drive obdII enabled accessories (digital speedometers, odos, temp guages, mpg calculators etc)? or is that simply considered an EFI controller rather than a proper ECU?

[SEO Motorsports]

gotchya, so something like the magasquirt could drive obdII enabled accessories (digital speedometers, odos, temp guages, mpg calculators etc)? or is that simply considered an EFI controller rather than a proper ECU?


MS can output a standard Tach signal to a gauge cluster but can not send CAN messages for individual sensors. I think MS has a display you can use the MS CAN bus to send messages to but there is no support for vehicle specific CAN networks.