Engine stops instead of idle when warm

[Sidaries]

I have a problem with the idle of my car. When I start it after a longer pause, everything is working well, the idle is around 850 until the engine is cold. After it warms up a bit (~3-4 minutes), the idle starts to be rougher, like 500-1500 and after a while it stops. It restarts without problem, but the idle stays the same bad and it stops again. What can be the problem? I think, the warm-up regulator could be the problem, but I have no idea where to start the fix.
When the car is in move, no problem occurs, consumption and smell is ok too.

[Bitsyncmaster]

If you have the stock idle ECU then your RPM should be 775. So it sounds like you have the curb idle screw turned in to far or you have no slack in your throttle cable. Try to fix that and see if that fixes your problems.

[Sidaries]

Ok, I will check that.
However it is strange, that I did not make anything there in the past few years. And that it only comes out when the engine is hot.

[Sidaries]

If you have the stock idle ECU then your RPM should be 775. So it sounds like you have the curb idle screw turned in to far or you have no slack in your throttle cable. Try to fix that and see if that fixes your problems.


I tried this, but it didn't fix my problem.
However I noticed an interesting detail. When I start the car, it idles fine and it will idle nice and well forever.
But if I increase the rpm for a while, then suddenly stops it, then the rpm falls until around 500, then increase until around 1100, then back again, then the engine stalls.
During this the lights are fading and usually the battery light comes out.

So the problem only appears, when the rpm suddenly falls. Sometimes it can catch the default idle speed and then it works well after that, but this only seldom (~25%) happens.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I tried this, but it didn't fix my problem.
However I noticed an interesting detail. When I start the car, it idles fine and it will idle nice and well forever.
But if I increase the rpm for a while, then suddenly stops it, then the rpm falls until around 500, then increase until around 1100, then back again, then the engine stalls.
During this the lights are fading and usually the battery light comes out.

So the problem only appears, when the rpm suddenly falls. Sometimes it can catch the default idle speed and then it works well after that, but this only seldom (~25%) happens.

That would sound like your idle motor is sticking. What voltage are you getting when it idles good? Also sounds like your battery is not very good.

[hmcelraft]

How long has the engine been doing this. Did it just start or did you do any maintenance, etc. to a component and it began?

[Sidaries]

The voltage is 13V. When AC, lights are on, then it is a bit lower. I tried to switch on everything, then tried to switch off all, but it doesn't make any change. Battery is 6 years old, so I am planning to change it, but I am not sure, that that is the problem.
I was thinking about the IDLE/LOW SPEED REGULATOR (i think this is the idle motor, you are speaking about) to be a problem, so yesterday I took it out from the car, sprayed a lot of brake cleaner into it, wait for a while, spill it out, then put it back. Nothing changed. However for me it seemed that not too much cleaner went into the regulator itself. How can I check if it is working or not?

This problem started a few months ago. No any special maintenance were made that time. At first, just a few times it stalled, then it did it more often. Now it became quite bad.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The voltage is 13V. When AC, lights are on, then it is a bit lower. I tried to switch on everything, then tried to switch off all, but it doesn't make any change. Battery is 6 years old, so I am planning to change it, but I am not sure, that that is the problem.
I was thinking about the IDLE/LOW SPEED REGULATOR (i think this is the idle motor, you are speaking about) to be a problem, so yesterday I took it out from the car, sprayed a lot of brake cleaner into it, wait for a while, spill it out, then put it back. Nothing changed. However for me it seemed that not too much cleaner went into the regulator itself. How can I check if it is working or not?

This problem started a few months ago. No any special maintenance were made that time. At first, just a few times it stalled, then it did it more often. Now it became quite bad.

You don't have to worry about cleaner getting into the idle motor. There are no brushes in the motor so it all will drip out if it gets in there. I put a little 3 in 1 (thin oil) into it after cleaning with solvent so the bearings get some lubrication.

Sounds like your alternator is working fine. When the idle dips to 500 RPM you would expect the voltage to dip also.

Does the idle motor buzz when you turn the key to on? You can also fee it vibrating.

[Rich]

That would sound like your idle motor is sticking.

Here is more information about cleaning the K-Jet idle motor valve and also about how to check the resistance of the motor. In the link you can read about other likely causes of 500-2000RPM idle fluctuations, not unlike the range you are reporting.

Credit for and critiques of these methods can go to the Volvo enthusiasts at K-Jet.org, not me. While I have verified the VOM test on an idle motor (it was OK) I've never cleaned one.

LINK: http://www.k-jet.org/articles/information/k-jet-debugging-guide/ (http://www.k-jet.org/articles/information/k-jet-debugging-guide/)


From K-Jet.org technical article: "The idle air motor is only found on cars with CIS..... If the idle air motor is clogged up with gunk, it can’t change the idle speed fast enough, and the idle will often hunt up and down, eventually finding the right idle speed after several times up and down, ranging from say 300 to 2000 rpms. Often, putting in the clutch or shifting in to neutral will make the car almost die, because the idle air motor cannot catch up quickly enough to balance out the idle.....

"Another way to test the idle air motor is to measure the resistance with your multimeter. A good motor should read +/-20 ohms resistance between any two pins that are next to eachother and +/-40 ohms resistance between the two outside pins.

"The idle air motor can be cleaned out if it is not too damaged. The most common way to do this is to detach the motor from the car and spray it out with carb cleaner. Fill the motor with carb cleaner and plug both openings in it. Shake it up and roll it back and forth in between your hands like you are making a ‘snake’ out of clay. You should hear it clicking back and forth. Repeat the cleaning process several times, drain the motor, and then allow it to dry for an hour or so."

Good luck sorting it out.

[Sidaries]

I can only hear the fuel pump, but that is louder than the idle motor.
And thanks Rich for that link. I will check the resistance too!

I will find these things out in a few days and report back. Thanks for the help!

[Sidaries]

I had time to check a few things on the car again.
At first I measured the resistance on the idle regulator. Interesting, because it is 10 and 20 ohms instead of the 20 and 40. Is this problem?

However I found an other possible problem source. Here is this diagram:
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100125040717/deloreantech/images/f/f6/VacuumRoutingDiagram.png

On the top of it, there are a part, called solenoid valve. When the engine is cold, I can even disconnect it, but when it gets warm, this is needed to idle. So after the engine gets warm - as i said before - it idles fine, BUT when i use the accelerator pedal and then release it, the car can't find the correct idle rpm and engine stops. Can't it be this part, which may cause the problem?

[Bitsyncmaster]

I had time to check a few things on the car again.
At first I measured the resistance on the idle regulator. Interesting, because it is 10 and 20 ohms instead of the 20 and 40. Is this problem?

However I found an other possible problem source. Here is this diagram:
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100125040717/deloreantech/images/f/f6/VacuumRoutingDiagram.png

On the top of it, there are a part, called solenoid valve. When the engine is cold, I can even disconnect it, but when it gets warm, this is needed to idle. So after the engine gets warm - as i said before - it idles fine, BUT when i use the accelerator pedal and then release it, the car can't find the correct idle rpm and engine stops. Can't it be this part, which may cause the problem?

The solenoid will reduce the ignition advance when the idle speed switch is on (no throttle). So if you disconnect the wires to the solenoid you will get ignition advance and not be able to idle at 775 RPM like designed.

[David T]

The solenoid will reduce the ignition advance when the idle speed switch is on (no throttle). So if you disconnect the wires to the solenoid you will get ignition advance and not be able to idle at 775 RPM like designed.

It is also very important that the hoses go to the correct ports, ie, they cannot be swapped and still work correctly. Double-check that each of the hoses go to the right port on the solenoid valve.

[Sidaries]

Well, this is interesting. By the diagram, that Bitsyncmaster linked, the vacuum line, which is next to the power cable must be connected to the Thermal Control Valve and the line which is on the other side, must be connected to the Spark Advance.
In my car this is not the case. In my car these are reversed.
What I don't understand, that we did not touch it in the past, but the car worked well until about November. Why the problem came only this late? Can this be the problem anyway?

And now I can say that when I start the car it idles fine 100%. BUT when I touch the accelerator and then release it it stalls 100%, however sometimes it tries to idling for about 5 seconds.
Which component is the one, which checks if the accelerator pedal is released and then sets the idle? That one is the culprit.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Well, this is interesting. By the diagram, that Bitsyncmaster linked, the vacuum line, which is next to the power cable must be connected to the Thermal Control Valve and the line which is on the other side, must be connected to the Spark Advance.
In my car this is not the case. In my car these are reversed.
What I don't understand, that we did not touch it in the past, but the car worked well until about November. Why the problem came only this late? Can this be the problem anyway?

And now I can say that when I start the car it idles fine 100%. BUT when I touch the accelerator and then release it it stalls 100%, however sometimes it tries to idling for about 5 seconds.
Which component is the one, which checks if the accelerator pedal is released and then sets the idle? That one is the culprit.

Now that it idles, adjust the curb idle on a hot engine. Turn it clockwise until the idle does not hold the 775 RPM. Then back it out about 1/4 turn.

[Sidaries]

Now that it idles, adjust the curb idle on a hot engine. Turn it clockwise until the idle does not hold the 775 RPM. Then back it out about 1/4 turn.

It is set now. I did it yesterday. Not it idles around 750-800 rpm. It did not solve the stalling problem.

[David T]

It is set now. I did it yesterday. Not it idles around 750-800 rpm. It did not solve the stalling problem.

Are you sure the frequency valve is buzzing? Check the vacuum line under the throttle unit to the vapor canister.

[Sidaries]

Are you sure the frequency valve is buzzing? Check the vacuum line under the throttle unit to the vapor canister.

The vaccum line is ok, but the Frequency valve is an other issue.
As i remember from the past, it should buzz quite loud, but I cannot hear it now. I tried to disconnect and reconnect it and for a few seconds I heared the loud buzzing as it did in the past, but then it went silent again. I tried to make it buzz maybe for a minute. Should it buzz always?

[Bitsyncmaster]

The vaccum line is ok, but the Frequency valve is an other issue.
As i remember from the past, it should buzz quite loud, but I cannot hear it now. I tried to disconnect and reconnect it and for a few seconds I heared the loud buzzing as it did in the past, but then it went silent again. I tried to make it buzz maybe for a minute. Should it buzz always?

FV should always buzz. If your mixture is way off the buzz with be very quite but when the engine is cold you should hear it even with a mixture that is way off.

[Sidaries]

FV should always buzz. If your mixture is way off the buzz with be very quite but when the engine is cold you should hear it even with a mixture that is way off.

Hmmm. This is bad, because FQV is quite expensive. Is there any way to clean it or fix it if it is bad?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Hmmm. This is bad, because FQV is quite expensive. Is there any way to clean it or fix it if it is bad?

First thing to do is get a meter (dwell or dutycyle) on the Lambda system. See if the readings are wrong and if they are adjust the mixture. Don't know what an FQV is.

[Sidaries]

First thing to do is get a meter (dwell or dutycyle) on the Lambda system. See if the readings are wrong and if they are adjust the mixture. Don't know what an FQV is.

Ok. I will check that and report back. FQV is Frequency Valve. I saw it here a few times.
Thanks for your help!

[David T]

Ok. I will check that and report back. FQV is Frequency Valve. I saw it here a few times.
Thanks for your help!

The FV does not usually go bad. Most of the time it is a bad/dirty electrical connection. If the mixture is way off or the O2 sensor is bad (or not connected) the FV won't work. It buzzes ALL the time (or at last it is supposed to). You need to trouble-shoot the Lambda system and figure out why the FV isn't working. My guess is the mixture is OK. If it was too rich the motor would still be running. It is leaning out and dieing because the FV is not working and adding a little fuel. Do not automatically start twisting the mixture screw. If you didn't mess with it yet then it is probably still in the correct position. If you do touch it, it will just be another thing you will have to do to fix things.

[DMC Fanatic]

Not trying to hijack this thread but on my car the FV buzzes all the time when first started cold and then after a few minutes when the car switches to closed loop it buzzes off and on until the engine is hot. When I hit the gas while its doing this, the engine revs a little wacky. Also when first started it smells like its a little on the rich side, but the dwell ends up reading properly when hot swinging from about 30 to 40 degrees and the FV buzzes all the time. Does this sound normal?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Not trying to hijack this thread but on my car the FV buzzes all the time when first started cold and then after a few minutes when the car switches to closed loop it buzzes off and on until the engine is hot. When I hit the gas while its doing this, the engine revs a little wacky. Also when first started it smells like its a little on the rich side, but the dwell ends up reading properly when hot swinging from about 30 to 40 degrees and the FV buzzes all the time. Does this sound normal?

It sounds like your mixture goes to far as it warms up. My first guess would be the WUR is the problem. Do you have a pressure gauge to read control pressure? Maybe the WUR heater is not working or a vacuum line on the WUR is incorrect.

[DMC Fanatic]

Thats interesting..I was also thinking it can be the WUR but I replaced it last year which I bought from DMCH. The hoses are hooked up correctly on it. I don't have a pressure gauge but I'll probably purchase one soon.

[DMC Fanatic]

And your right about the mixture going to far when it warms up because as soon as it goes to closed loop the dwell number is very low and starts to increase as it the engine warms up.

[Sidaries]

Now it seems that we fixed it. The Lambda probe was the culprit. After we changed it and let it warm up, it worked well.
The idle hunting still remained, but that will be an other day's problem.

[Jonathan]

Here is more information about cleaning the K-Jet idle motor valve and also about how to check the resistance of the motor. In the link you can read about other likely causes of 500-2000RPM idle fluctuations, not unlike the range you are reporting.

Credit for and critiques of these methods can go to the Volvo enthusiasts at K-Jet.org, not me. While I have verified the VOM test on an idle motor (it was OK) I've never cleaned one.

LINK: http://www.k-jet.org/articles/information/k-jet-debugging-guide/ (http://www.k-jet.org/articles/information/k-jet-debugging-guide/)


From K-Jet.org technical article: "The idle air motor is only found on cars with CIS..... If the idle air motor is clogged up with gunk, it can’t change the idle speed fast enough, and the idle will often hunt up and down, eventually finding the right idle speed after several times up and down, ranging from say 300 to 2000 rpms. Often, putting in the clutch or shifting in to neutral will make the car almost die, because the idle air motor cannot catch up quickly enough to balance out the idle.....

"Another way to test the idle air motor is to measure the resistance with your multimeter. A good motor should read +/-20 ohms resistance between any two pins that are next to eachother and +/-40 ohms resistance between the two outside pins.

"The idle air motor can be cleaned out if it is not too damaged. The most common way to do this is to detach the motor from the car and spray it out with carb cleaner. Fill the motor with carb cleaner and plug both openings in it. Shake it up and roll it back and forth in between your hands like you are making a ‘snake’ out of clay. You should hear it clicking back and forth. Repeat the cleaning process several times, drain the motor, and then allow it to dry for an hour or so."

Good luck sorting it out.

I hope you don't mind me piggybacking on this thread. I've been trying to sort out a high idle problem and it led me here.

I'm going to have lots of material to probably write-up a nice troubleshooting guide with the things I've looked into. There seems to have been many little areas that contributed in some way. Throttle spool spring, lever arm linkage length adjustment, idle microswitch plunger adjustments, bulkhead connectors, air or vacuum system leaks, ECU and diode connections, and a sticky idle speed motor.

I have mine out right now as I was going to try and clean it again. I had tested it while it was still in the car by pulling away the cold start valve to free up that short connecting hose and allow you to peer into the motor to see the moving parts. With the key turned to run and quickly observing, it wasn't getting much travel and it seemed to only make it about half way open/closed.

When I was reading the part above about testing the motor's resistance between the pins, I got the exact same readings more or less as Sidiaries did. Meaning, I got 10 and 11 Ohms between two pins beside each other and 21 Ohms across the 1st and 3rd pins. I did not get the 20 and 40 Ohms as was mentioned.

Is this telling me something? Is this motor capoot? Did Sidiaries get these same readings and still find his idle speed motor was fine, or was it later replaced?

Thanks for your help. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[NightFlyer]

But it's otherwise idling smoothly - just at 1,800 rpm instead of around the 750 spec, right? So, you're getting too much air/fuel into the engine at idle at the same time.

So it's either a problem with the CIS or a problem elsewhere. As your post on the 'what have you done today' thread is handling the CIS aspect, I'll limit this response to potential other areas of concern/attention.

If it's a smooth idle, then this suggests (given that you've already checked the throttle spool/cable) that your curb idle is significantly out of adjustment, which could be caused by a shifting of the bracket upon which it rests. That's where I'd start looking personally, other than and issue with the CIS of course (given everything else that you've already eliminated).

Best luck and keep us informed :thumbup:

[Jonathan]

I did have a question from the other thread... and that was just how do you bypass the thermistor? Disconnect something?

For the most part, yes, it is idling at 1,800 and stays there without much movement. I have seen it dip to 1,400 and then go to 1,600 or so, but it's not repeatable on demand.

Looking inside the idle speed motor, I can see that it seems to stop trying to move about 50% open, approximately. When looking at it from the cold start valve connection side, it appears to go to it's default position by rotating towards the right (which if you were looking down on it would be counter clockwise). Then it tries to rotate back the other way, to the left (or clockwise if looking down on it from above). I can see the edge of the metal which would be the start of the part of the circumference which is blocking flow, but it can't seem to get it past about 40% even, less than half I'd say. I can hear/feel buzzing when it's trying to do this it would seem.

When I had it out on the workbench, I could gently put in a non-scratching poking device (aka extra chopstick from some dinner) and get it to move. But it had enough resistance to moving that it felt like it would move if you pushed on the edge, but not move farther than which you could still be pushing it, i.e. it would not spin or rotate on it's own if you gave it a push start. Like a propeller on top of a beanie hat... if you flick it, it'll spin round and round several times. My idle speed motor won't do anything even close to that. It's far from moving that freely. Not sure if it should, let me know how you think yours or others move.

My plan for tomorrow is to clean the motor the best I can and reinstall and check movement. I'll also check the curb screw and likely do so by removing the W pipe so I can say for sure what is happening behind there. I'll try the thermistor bypass too if able. Thanks Josh.

[NightFlyer]

I did have a question from the other thread... and that was just how do you bypass the thermistor? Disconnect something?

For the most part, yes, it is idling at 1,800 and stays there without much movement. I have seen it dip to 1,400 and then go to 1,600 or so, but it's not repeatable on demand.

Looking inside the idle speed motor, I can see that it seems to stop trying to move about 50% open, approximately. When looking at it from the cold start valve connection side, it appears to go to it's default position by rotating towards the right (which if you were looking down on it would be counter clockwise). Then it tries to rotate back the other way, to the left (or clockwise if looking down on it from above). I can see the edge of the metal which would be the start of the part of the circumference which is blocking flow, but it can't seem to get it past about 40% even, less than half I'd say. I can hear/feel buzzing when it's trying to do this it would seem.

When I had it out on the workbench, I could gently put in a non-scratching poking device (aka extra chopstick from some dinner) and get it to move. But it had enough resistance to moving that it felt like it would move if you pushed on the edge, but not move farther than which you could still be pushing it, i.e. it would not spin or rotate on it's own if you gave it a push start. Like a propeller on top of a beanie hat... if you flick it, it'll spin round and round several times. My idle speed motor won't do anything even close to that. It's far from moving that freely. Not sure if it should, let me know how you think yours or others move.

My plan for tomorrow is to clean the motor the best I can and reinstall and check movement. I'll also check the curb screw and likely do so by removing the W pipe so I can say for sure what is happening behind there. I'll try the thermistor bypass too if able. Thanks Josh.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?241-What-have-you-done-to-your-DeLorean-today&p=100638&viewfull=1#post100638

I'm inclined to say that your ISM is good and that you're problem lies else where (most likely a bad electrical connection somewhere - assuming that you've already eliminated vacuum leaks from the list of potentials). If while cleaning it and rolling it back and forth (like making a snake out of a piece of clay) with your solvent inside, you can hear it clicking, then it's probably good.

Good post regarding checking for vacuum leaks:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1781-Lambda-problem&p=27383&viewfull=1#post27383

Other threads/posts that you may want to check out for further trouble shooting of the ISM and thermistor:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7053-Idle-ECU-***SPLIT-from-setting-idle***&p=101907&viewfull=1#post101907

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3432-nead-help-first-run-with-my-newly-buy-delorean-car-have-a-bad-idle&p=48144&viewfull=1#post48144

Keep us in the loop and best luck with everything :thumbup:

[DeLorean03]

I did have a question from the other thread... and that was just how do you bypass the thermistor? Disconnect something?

Answered on the other thread!

[Jonathan]

Answered on the other thread!

Great! Thanks to both of you! That gives me lots to work on and I'll report back what I find. :thumbup2:

[Jonathan]

First off, good call on the thermistor bypass test J and J.

This morning I put the ISM back in the car without additional cleanings. I confirmed all the hoses and electrical connections were back the way they were supposed to be and fired it up. It started right away and sat at 1,800 RPM or so. I get out and wiggled any of the connections or components I had thought might have been the culprit. No change. Before shutting it off though, I did see it go on it's own from 1,800 down to 1,400 and hunt back up to 1,600 or 1,800 or so. It seemed to get back to close to 2,000 and mostly stay there.

I made up a jumper and put it across the black/slate and black/yellow wires at the connector on the ECU. Started the car up and it went back to idling at 775. Shut the car off.

So, thanks a lot for getting me pointed in the right direction. However, before I go diving into a VoD entry and put this thermistor connector back on, are there any other additional tests I could do to really, really confirm it is the thermistor connector as opposed to some other coincidental problem? I guess it could be the thermistor itself having failed and the connector is still attached, and then I would need a new one of those I'd imagine.

The VoD doesn't look like a lot of fun, but considering I've never touched mine the entire time I've owned the car (2007) it might not be that bad of an idea to go in and attend to anything else in there not looking so good. I've had replacement spark plugs, wires and a few other odds and ends that I wasn't going to replace just for the heck of it, but if a bunch of the engine is already apart, these kinds of things will be getting done.

Let me know your thoughts or advice. :)

[DMCMW Dave]

Let me know your thoughts or advice. :)

Short answer, leave it jumped and move on. If you never drive the car in extreme cold you will never miss it.

The problem may not be the thermistor (I've never seen a bad one) but I have seen bad connections on the thermistor, so the ultimate repair will probably be free.

I'd feel better if the jumper was a resistor to simulate the thermistor, I don't recall the resistance offhand.

[NightFlyer]

Agree with Dave about permanently bypassing it, though being where you are (up north in Canada), you might actually have more of a use for a working thermistor than the rest of us. That said, bypassing it won't make all that much of a difference, even in cold temperatures - just a longer warmup period and you may have to nurse the throttle a little to prevent it from stalling out until warm enough.

Also agree that it's probably not the thermistor itself, but an issue with the connection.

As to what else you should do while you're in the VOD, should you decide to do this, the biggest thing is correcting any coolant hose/pipe leaks. Everything else that you could do while you're in there would constitute an optional endeavor IMHO (don't fix it unless it's broken is my motto).

Best luck Jonathan :thumbup:

[Bitsyncmaster]

Jumping the thermistor may affect starting cold (it does on my ECU) but it does not cost anything to try leaving it connected.

Hot it runs about 1 Kohm, cold is about 100 Kohm.

[DMCMW Dave]

Jumping the thermistor may affect starting cold (it does on my ECU) but it does not cost anything to try leaving it connected.

Hot it runs about 1 Kohm, cold is about 100 Kohm.

I knew you would have this answer in your head ;). . . . I have a test jumper made with something that was handy.

[DeLorean03]

I ran my car with a permanently bypassed idle speed thermistor for a long, long time (8 - 9 years).

No fires or anything :P.

Don't go tearing into the VOD unless you're replacing the water pump or something. It is not worth it for this fix.

Glad we were able to help, Jonathan! We had this happen when my car underwent a minor restoration in 2004 - solid 1800 - 2000. Credit for the fix goes back to DMChrome when he was still in the community.

[rothsean]

Make sure your throttle cable did not fall off track.

[Jonathan]

Well guys, thanks to many of you for the help. I had been holding off on another reply here as I thought I'd have even better news.

When the thermistor bypass test narrowed down what the problem is, I thought I could find out where the bad connection was. Dave and I earlier this week on email had talked about a bad connection at the bulkhead connectors. At one time I wiggled the bulkhead connector with the engine running at high idle and it had enough of an impact to stall the engine. As Dave pointed out, it might not say exactly what the problem is, but it is saying something.

I got thinking about the continuity test comment someone made and checked a few things. When I go from the engine side of the wiring on the bulkhead connector (presuming these black/yellow and black/slate are going directly to the thermistor), I get continuity (resistance was 20 Ohm or so, I don't recall exactly). When I check the two pins (44 and 50 I believe), it also gets continuity and a much higher resistance (200 Ohm or so). So I was thinking the problem is in the bulkhead connector itself.

I used some contact cleaner on both ends and it feels and appears snug when clipped together. I also looked behind the connectors from beyond the rear parcel shelf. Not a very good angle to see the backside of the connector though as it's just too small an area with a lot of wires in it. I did see what I think was a blue coloured diode in there as well as at least two of those red plastic splice things which I was not expecting to see. I can't rule out the problem isn't behind the connector there unfortunately.

I wasn't having much luck backing out the two wires from the ECU connector (is there a trick to this, or is it a matter of once they are in there they are staying?) I wasn't keen on cracking the plastic connector so I MacGuyver'ed an inbetween connector consisting of two extensions (a male spade entering the connector and a female opposite end attaching to the ECU itself) for the two wires that still needed to be connected; and then a jumper wire of two female ends just to go from the now empty remaining male spade ends on the ECU. I used insulated/rubber covered connectors on the ends of the extension wires and simpler ones on the jumper wires connectors just because there isn't a ton of space to put them all in there at once. It ain't pretty but I think it'll work for the time being. I just didn't want to change anything in a way I can't put it back later to how it was.

I fired the car up as is and it sat at 775 for mostly the whole time the car was running. I kept an eye on things as I put all the covers back on in the parcel shelf area. I was thinking I would let it sit there running until the cooling fans came on but that seemed to be taking forever and up until the last couple minutes, the idle never moved. Perhaps when it had gotten warm, temp gauge reading hot but not quite enough to turn the fans on, it hunted a bit but this was not much more than the +/- 50 RPM around 775 give or take a bit.

It seems ok as it is unless any of you think otherwise?

I agree on the cold temperatures and not needing it where I am. In the bulkhead connections schematic, it indicates 14.6 kOhms at 52 deg F so if the thermistor is based on temperatures below 52 deg F, it won't cause me much trouble. Not often anyway.

And just to poke fun a little bit, I'm not that far North!! lol Anyone living in the top of Michigan, or north of Milwaukee or most any of Minnesota is technically farther North than I am. Heck, the southern end of Ontario is farther south than the most northern part of California believe it or not :)

[NightFlyer]

And just to poke fun a little bit, I'm not that far North!! lol Anyone living in the top of Michigan, or north of Milwaukee or most any of Minnesota is technically farther North than I am. Heck, the southern end of Ontario is farther south than the most northern part of California believe it or not :)

For some reason, I thought that you were from somewhere further north in Canada - that's a my bad! You may now commence in dispensing my administrative punishment :whip:

[Jonathan]

For some reason, I thought that you were from somewhere further north in Canada - that's a my bad! You may now commence in dispensing my administrative punishment :whip:

Haha, no worries, eh! Your punishment is to sit through a 2 minute clip of Bob and Doug McKenzie teaching geography!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-ZvAVcBIrQ

Take off eh hoser?! :)