Warning - Bad Left Fender posted on Ebay!

[TTait]

Fair warning:

this ebay item: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-1981-Delorean-driverside-fender-/251443462647?pt=Motors_Manuals_Literature&hash=item3a8b32c1f7&vxp=mtr

has been relisted on ebay.

I am the "jerk" referred to in the ad that bought this two months ago and had to return it. I'm out about 2 months and $80 in return shipping, as well as half a day taking it down to DMC-CA to have it looked at.

The ad states that the seller "has been told" that it can be repaired. Be aware that someone has already tried to repair this fender, and the stainless tore and was re-welded back together - creating a buckle in the surface, not a small dent.

According to Danny at DMC-CA there is not enough material to get the fender back into its proper shape. One could spend a few hundred dollars with them or another franchise to try to make it better - but it will never, in his opinion, look or fit correctly. This fender can be used in a painted car if bondo is applied to make it reform into the proper shape.

The seller is cagey, rude, and blatantly dishonest. Last time he posted this he added photos showing some of the damage and noting the dents just a day or two before the auction ended, most of that time he had it listed as a perfect piece. Even then (as now) the true extent of the damage is not disclosed and the repairability of the panel is misrepresented. When I disputed the auction with ebay, and sent them Danny's letter, they refunded my money on the spot, themselves, and apologized for his misleading ad. They are now trying to collect the money back from him, or may have done so already. This ad is just as bad.

The pictures do not show the extent of the damage. The ad does not mention that someone attempted to repair the fender already and failed at an epic level. Had a qualified repair person tried to fix it the first time, instead of tearing it, this might have been one more good part for our cars - as it is Danny pegged its market value as $0.00. It is worth several dollars for recycling or can be used on a painted car only.

If you need a paintable fender, please consider taking this one off the market. I'm still looking for a fender that can be repaired - but this one is not it.

I can provide copies of correspondence if anyone is serious - My goal is not to trash the seller but to protect the community.

If the ad disappears, be on the lookout for a LFF from Backintyme. Caveat Emptor. You have been warned.

Tom

[DeLorean03]

So........


1. Items posted for sale in any section must be for items you personally own. Do not post ads for parts or cars you saw for sale online somewhere, including ebay ads that are not yours. These threads will be deleted.



Now, I know your heart was in the right place for this one, and you're looking out for others within the community. That in mind, I will move this to Open Discussion since it is not a technical post or Q&A/Help Wanted style of post.

Good looking out - just make sure the rules are followed.

[TTait]

Mea Culpa. Thanks for fixing that...

[ssaleen]

Those pics are useless. You can't hardly see anything in them.

[David T]

Those pics are useless. You can't hardly see anything in them.

I don't care what Danny at DMC-CA says, ANY body panel can be fixed. With that being said, there are economic realities too. No sense spending more on buying a panel and fixing it than you could buy a good panel for in the first place. The other problem is misrepresentation. Buyers who cannot examine the item in person count on the seller to be honest. That is why pictures are so important. If they are not good and show the item in enough detail to let you decide if you want the part, you should not bid.

[Bitsyncmaster]

To get a fender perfect, you need to remove some of the thickness of the metal. If someone already removed a lot of metal then you would have to install a patch of new metal cutting out the thin areas.

[Rich W]

I don't care what Danny at DMC-CA says, ANY body panel can be fixed. With that being said, there are economic realities too. No sense spending more on buying a panel and fixing it than you could buy a good panel for in the first place. The other problem is misrepresentation. Buyers who cannot examine the item in person count on the seller to be honest. That is why pictures are so important. If they are not good and show the item in enough detail to let you decide if you want the part, you should not bid.

Without getting into too many "what if" scenerios, there are some types of body panel damaged that cannot be fixed for "stock" stainless appearance.

Many Fire Damaged body panels (especially heat warped doors) cannot be repaired, since the properties of the metal changes with extreme heat.

Some panels cannot be fixed with the existing metal (bent or torn beyond repair), but can be fixed by cutting and welding in new replacement SS.

Some compound angles are much more difficult than others to repair, such as the leading and trailing edges of the top portion of the front fenders.

Even with all of this in mind, I have not disposed of any burned or bent stainless panels.

[David T]

Without getting into too many "what if" scenerios, there are some types of body panel damaged that cannot be fixed for "stock" stainless appearance.

Many Fire Damaged body panels (especially heat warped doors) cannot be repaired, since the properties of the metal changes with extreme heat.

Some panels cannot be fixed with the existing metal (bent or torn beyond repair), but can be fixed by cutting and welding in new replacement SS.

Some compound angles are much more difficult than others to repair, such as the leading and trailing edges of the top portion of the front fenders.

Even with all of this in mind, I have not disposed of any burned or bent stainless panels.

That fire would have to get pretty hot to change the metal's characteristics enough to preclude it's reuse! I have seen Chris Nickelson's (sp) work, the guy is an artist with sheet metal. There is a video of him making a LFF from a flat sheet of S/S. That work doesn't come cheap but it shows what is possible. It may not make economical sense but anything is repairable. When there are no more LFF's available you start repairing what you can. If a section has been reworked too many times and is thin you can always weld a new section in, compound curves and all. I saw a hood that he did. After making it PERECT it got blown off the car by the wind (it hadn't been attached yet) and fell onto gravel. It was dinged ALL OVER. He made it look like new again.

[Rich W]

That fire would have to get pretty hot to change the metal's characteristics enough to preclude it's reuse! I have seen Chris Nickelson's (sp) work, the guy is an artist with sheet metal. There is a video of him making a LFF from a flat sheet of S/S. That work doesn't come cheap but it shows what is possible. It may not make economical sense but anything is repairable. When there are no more LFF's available you start repairing what you can. If a section has been reworked too many times and is thin you can always weld a new section in, compound curves and all. I saw a hood that he did. After making it PERECT it got blown off the car by the wind (it hadn't been attached yet) and fell onto gravel. It was dinged ALL OVER. He made it look like new again.

Hi David,

Funny you should mention Chris Nicholson. Nearly all of the comments I made in my last post on this thread were made by Chris N. himself.
Other than Rob Grady, I think I have spent more time working with Chris N. in the past decade than anyone else in the DeLorean community.
In fact, there is well over 100 hours of work on the DeLorean Limo alone, with six custom, hand made stainless panels from sheet stainless.
Most of the stock panels on the Limo were either previous collision, corrosion or vandalized damaged that Chris N. repaired and refinished.

Of the dozen or so burned panels from three salvage burn cars, Chris N. was able to "fix" one of them so far. The others were "deferred".
Of the dozen or so "torn" panels, from accident damage, Chris N. was able to repair over half of them, so far, by sectioning and welding.

Chris N. has re-finished over a dozen of my DeLoreans (some now sold) and, repaired and refinished enough spare panels for a dozen more.
Attaching a few "before" photos of some of the panels Chris N. has worked on (fenders and quarters) and one LF fender he has not tried yet.

25108

25109

25110

25111

The doors in the second photo are from the roll over car in the fourth photo. Chris N. has also "deferred" work on these doors, for now.
I acquired many of these damaged panels before I knew about Chris N., so as you can guess, I was very glad when I finally met him.

Later,
Rich W.

[TTait]

Yes, in fairness it may be possible to weld in a portion of a donor fender, or to cut out and rebuild the entire upper front corned, but the metal there was reworked until it was so thin that it tore. That tear was welded back together, poorly, creating additional buckles where the original metal was pulled together to fix the tear. In addition to the thin metal, now the new buckles would have to be worked out. As thin as the metal now is at the upper front corner, that corner would have to be cheated in to a smaller overall radius in order to work, and even then the new buckles introduced would have to be worked out. This fender was first in an accident, but the more difficult trauma is that someone without good repair skills tried to fix it themselves and made it far worse.

I have no doubt that if sent to Chris it could be cut and have a donor portion installed, but said repair would probably cost more than the resultant fender would be worth.

If someone wants to buy it I think that great - I don't want to see it get trashed. I hope it finds a home other than a scrap heap. My concern is that the fender has a lot more history and problems than the ad and photos suggest, and the seller has proven to be less than forthright on his previous attempt to sell it. I feel a sense of community here, and it wouldn't be right to not share what I found. This is not an attempt to slur the seller or punish him - this is about letting this community know that the ad on ebay is not an accurate description of the product.

T

[Spittybug]

FYI, I exchanged a couple of messages with the seller and frankly, he's a dick. He thinks it's a $3,000 fender as is. One of these Delorean "know it alls".

I too would recommend extreme caution....

[David T]

Hi David,

Funny you should mention Chris Nicholson. Nearly all of the comments I made in my last post on this thread were made by Chris N. himself.
Other than Rob Grady, I think I have spent more time working with Chris N. in the past decade than anyone else in the DeLorean community.
In fact, there is well over 100 hours of work on the DeLorean Limo alone, with six custom, hand made stainless panels from sheet stainless.
Most of the stock panels on the Limo were either previous collision, corrosion or vandalized damaged that Chris N. repaired and refinished.

Of the dozen or so burned panels from three salvage burn cars, Chris N. was able to "fix" one of them so far. The others were "deferred".
Of the dozen or so "torn" panels, from accident damage, Chris N. was able to repair over half of them, so far, by sectioning and welding.

Chris N. has re-finished over a dozen of my DeLoreans (some now sold) and, repaired and refinished enough spare panels for a dozen more.
Attaching a few "before" photos of some of the panels Chris N. has worked on (fenders and quarters) and one LF fender he has not tried yet.

25108

25109

25110

25111

The doors in the second photo are from the roll over car in the fourth photo. Chris N. has also "deferred" work on these doors, for now.
I acquired many of these damaged panels before I knew about Chris N., so as you can guess, I was very glad when I finally met him.

Later,
Rich W.

Yes, the Delorean community is lucky to have someone like Chris and his skills. Way back before Chris, Rob had a bunch of banged up panels so he built his green car out of them! Waste not, want not! Anyway, when the price of a good panel gets high enough because they are rarer, it will make sense to put the time into fixing the unfixable. After that source of parts is exhausted all that is left will be the occasional donor car being parted out or making a panel from scratch. We are still fortunate enough that we have a large supply of parts unique to the Delorean. Not the case with so many other "Orphan" makes.

[GS450-Junkie]

I understand your concern, and appreciate your findings on this forum. I was thinking of making a low ball offer on it, and now I'm glad I didn't. Thank you!






Yes, in fairness it may be possible to weld in a portion of a donor fender, or to cut out and rebuild the entire upper front corned, but the metal there was reworked until it was so thin that it tore. That tear was welded back together, poorly, creating additional buckles where the original metal was pulled together to fix the tear. In addition to the thin metal, now the new buckles would have to be worked out. As thin as the metal now is at the upper front corner, that corner would have to be cheated in to a smaller overall radius in order to work, and even then the new buckles introduced would have to be worked out. This fender was first in an accident, but the more difficult trauma is that someone without good repair skills tried to fix it themselves and made it far worse.

I have no doubt that if sent to Chris it could be cut and have a donor portion installed, but said repair would probably cost more than the resultant fender would be worth.

If someone wants to buy it I think that great - I don't want to see it get trashed. I hope it finds a home other than a scrap heap. My concern is that the fender has a lot more history and problems than the ad and photos suggest, and the seller has proven to be less than forthright on his previous attempt to sell it. I feel a sense of community here, and it wouldn't be right to not share what I found. This is not an attempt to slur the seller or punish him - this is about letting this community know that the ad on ebay is not an accurate description of the product.

T

[cyberflexx]

one of those BTTF customizer shops should use this fender instead of drilling into a good one. Keep the good ones for people who need repairs from wrecks. Just my 2 cents.

[LEVY]

one of those BTTF customizer shops should use this fender instead of drilling into a good one. Keep the good ones for people who need repairs from wrecks. Just my 2 cents.

If you are going to pay $70,000.00 + for one of those, bet you don't want it built with damaged body panels.

LEVY