EZ Pass ?

[thirdmanj]

So, who here is really familiar with EZ Pass? A 10minute Google search didn't really get me the answers I was looking for, so I figured I'd try the 1st best place for great automotive advice on the Internet. ;)
My main question is I've got an EZ pass transponder and I want to know if it absolutely NEEDS to be mounted on the windshield. I'd prefer not to mount it all. The reason I ask, is that a friend of the wife's sent her EZPass back to the company in the mail, didn't use the special bag and it tracked (and charged) her AAALL the back in the delivery truck. So, anyone here who use it just keep it in their glove box or something?

[Bill6298]

In Florida I use the SunPass that is temporarily mounted on the windshield with a plastic holder and suction cups. Assuming Virginia is also RFID technology, it's possible the scanner can access your EZPass in a different location but the risk is it won't pick up 1 out of 100 times. Not sure if your state will automatically check your license plate against their EZPass database to avoid sending you a ticket. IF you can experiment without getting fines, I say go for it. There are some toll roads in Florida where they don't even care if you have the SunPass. They simply bill by license plate if you don't have one.

Can you get a suction cup version instead of the windshield sticker version? Otherwise, I would find a workaround that keeps the transponder near the front of the car for timing purposes. Don't mount it to a surface that could interfere with the RFID operation. I believe it's best to not put a metal surface between the transponder and the scanners. Line of sight isn't required. My RFID tag is actually inside of the plastic holder.

25116

[Jimmyvonviggle]

Just curious as to why you don't want to stick it to the windshield. I just stick my Florida mini sun pass on my windshield below and to the right of my mirror. I can't see it when I am driving, and really helps when travelling. Some places fine you if they catch you with the cameras.

[EdR5150]

In Illinois, I've mounted my IPass behind the grill. It always registers in the toll booth. No problems yet.

I had my windshield tinted, and didn't want to risk ruining the tint with adhesives. Plus I prefer to keep the windshield free of stick-on gadgets.

[Rich]

....I've got an EZ pass transponder and I want to know if it absolutely NEEDS to be mounted on the windshield.....So, anyone here who use it just keep it in their glove box or something?

It does not NEED to be mounted on the windshield or the front bumper. Those are just the places it is sure to work best.

We rest ours on the dashboard of the car when we need to pay a toll, then put it away since we do not like to ever see it. Works that way every time, whether in our D or our DD.

It is possible that yours will work even if it is in or on the center console of a car or even in the glovebox. Depending on how fast you go thru the toll-pay zone, what kind of antennas they are using and where your transponder is you may get varying results with that. As with the delivery truck story you tell.

If you want to be sure it WON'T transpond when it's going someplace then you do need to put it in the conductive pouch it came in or in some other conductive box/bag/enclosure so it hides from the antennas....or de-activate the account, in which case it will still "read" but will not result in any charges to the account.

The typical USA setup is a 900MHz RFID system in case that matters.

[DMC5180]

+1 with ED,

I have the Illinois I-PASS transponder (it also works with EZ-pass Systems). I Installed the DMCH UV/IR windshield a couple years ago and unfortunately the IR blocked RFID transmission. After looking into the Optional Front License plate mounted transponder, (very large and ugly) I decided to attach my glass mounted transponder to the backside of the front grill with VHB tape (everything is plastic up there so no worries of transmission blockage). No issues at all with it mounted there. In the event the transponder does not get picked up, the system will photograph your License place and match it up with the registered
Transponder account, known as a (V-toll) virtual toll.

Before I had the IR windshield I used to just set the transponder on the dash or top of the center console (A/C vents)

As side note, when they mailed the transponder to me, it was wrapped in aluminum foil inside a bubble pack envelope so it would not be picked up in transit. No special bag just FOIL.

[Notifier]

I was driving a spare work truck one day and forgot to check for an ezpass before I left. Got to a toll booth and realized I forgot to grab one, but was too late, already in the ezpass only lane and couldn't get over. So said f-it going through anyway. There was one somewhere in the truck because the display came up PAID. Wasn't on the windshield or front bumper, didn't find it in the glovebox, I'm guessing it was under or between a seat.

My question is, can they be painted? I thought about painting mine black to blend in with the windshield.

[thirdmanj]

Thanks for all the great responses, guys!!

[David T]

Thanks for all the great responses, guys!!

There is a great article in Pop Sci about a guy who hacked one to make a noise every time his E-Z Pass got read. Driving around Manhattan it got hit multiple times and he was nowhere near a toll booth. It turns out NYC reads those tags to measure traffic flow. It doesn't take much imagination to guess they could be tracking someone. I keep mine in it's special bag when it is not being used. I have that little plastic holder with suction cups but I have also tried it just sitting on the dash. Some cars with a special windshield have metal in them and the E Z Pass MUST be up at the top in the center of the windshield where it can be read. Here in New Jersey someone figured out they were ALL illegally mounted on the windshield! It turns out that DMV says you cannot place ANYTHING on the windshield that can obstruct vision. The only exception was the inspection sticker. DMV had to change the rules to allow the E Z Pass! In the beginning E Z Pass was ticketing everyone who was going too fast through the toll booths. Turns out they never had ANY authority to issue speeding tickets! NJ was one of the last States in this area to get E Z Pass up and running and it was WAY over budget! It is a great system but the way it was implemented was a boondoggle to say the least. I like it but it is just another way for the government to pick your pocket at 60 MPH!

[thirdmanj]

There is a great article in Pop Sci about a guy who hacked one to make a noise every time his E-Z Pass got read. Driving around Manhattan it got hit multiple times and he was nowhere near a toll booth. It turns out NYC reads those tags to measure traffic flow. It doesn't take much imagination to guess they could be tracking someone. I keep mine in it's special bag when it is not being used. I have that little plastic holder with suction cups but I have also tried it just sitting on the dash. Some cars with a special windshield have metal in them and the E Z Pass MUST be up at the top in the center of the windshield where it can be read. Here in New Jersey someone figured out they were ALL illegally mounted on the windshield! It turns out that DMV says you cannot place ANYTHING on the windshield that can obstruct vision. The only exception was the inspection sticker. DMV had to change the rules to allow the E Z Pass! In the beginning E Z Pass was ticketing everyone who was going too fast through the toll booths. Turns out they never had ANY authority to issue speeding tickets! NJ was one of the last States in this area to get E Z Pass up and running and it was WAY over budget! It is a great system but the way it was implemented was a boondoggle to say the least. I like it but it is just another way for the government to pick your pocket at 60 MPH!

:ohcrap: Mind.Blown.
Fuck it. I'm moving to Alaska to hunt wolves.

[jangell]

Most of this has already been covered, but I'll throw in my two cents:

I have an EZ-Pass on my DeLorean. I got the license plate mounted one. In the other car we have the windshield mount on. The license plate one is simply bolted on using the existing license plate bolts. The windshield one is velcro'ed to heavy-duty velcro tape stuck tot he windshield. We keep the RF shield bag in the glove box in case we need to remove it (say, if the car has to be towed).

These transponders don't need line of sight, but they're not super strong. They're RFID tags -- the signal from the tool booth thing is what powers them, and that causes them to return their code (as such, they don't have batteries, and is why you have to put them in an RF shield bag when not in use). They suggest mounting them on the windshield to ensure they have a good signal -- specifically to the right of the rear view mirror (I think this is to deal with some high-end cars with electric front defrosters; the (gold?) coating that makes that work without wires running through the glass acts as a faraday cage, but they leave a small part untreated so that you can use garaged door openers and the like. Also the transponder is hidden from your view by the mirror, and thus doesn't affect your vision).

While you can leave them in the glove box or under the seat or whatever, it may not always register, and there's no way to know without actually driving through a toll booth -- and even then it sometimes might register and sometimes might not. Putting it behind the grill seems like a good idea -- there's lots of space back there, it's surrounded by relatively little plastic and not a lot of metal, and shouldn't have a problem getting a single to the transponder. As mentioned, if the EZ Pass isn't detected they'll take a photo of your plate and debit your account as through it was; it's just more prone to error and doesn't give you immediate feedback like the transponder does.

As for concern about tracking: there's are big plates on the front and back of every car with six to eight alphanumeric characters on them. If they really want to track you, license plate readers would work on everyone, and not just those who happen to have a transponder. You can probably build a license plate reader for under $100, including the camera, a Raspberry Pi, storage and battery (might even be able to get it down to $50 if you're clever). It would also have longer range than the transponder does, although it would require line of sight.

I actually avoided EZ-Pass for years because I had heard they had been used for ticketing (I now think it's an urban legend or a worry of what could happen; I didn't know it was actually true). I then realized that if they started doing that, people would stop using EZ-Pass. And if they really wanted to, the cameras they already have at the toll booths to register people who don't pay (or whose EZ-Pass didn't register) could easily be used for the same purpose without having a transponder in your car.

I also remember when it was found that NYC was tracking EZ-Pass transponders for traffic purposes. It was a big deal for a bit on the tech sites, but it was pointed out that NYC uses a number of mechanism to monitor traffic, and this was just one of them (I forget the others at the moment). This is all a big catch-22, trading convenience for anonymity, just like you do when you use Facebook or whatnot. It just happens that most of the time you want the service more than you want the thing you lose, or that the loss is small enough to be worth the trade.

Apparently Massachusetts is considering getting rid of all conventional toll lanes and replacing them entirely with EZ-Pass. If you don't have one, they'll just use your license plate to send you the bill.

-- Joe

[David T]

Most of this has already been covered, but I'll throw in my two cents:

I have an EZ-Pass on my DeLorean. I got the license plate mounted one. In the other car we have the windshield mount on. The license plate one is simply bolted on using the existing license plate bolts. The windshield one is velcro'ed to heavy-duty velcro tape stuck tot he windshield. We keep the RF shield bag in the glove box in case we need to remove it (say, if the car has to be towed).

These transponders don't need line of sight, but they're not super strong. They're RFID tags -- the signal from the tool booth thing is what powers them, and that causes them to return their code (as such, they don't have batteries, and is why you have to put them in an RF shield bag when not in use). They suggest mounting them on the windshield to ensure they have a good signal -- specifically to the right of the rear view mirror (I think this is to deal with some high-end cars with electric front defrosters; the (gold?) coating that makes that work without wires running through the glass acts as a faraday cage, but they leave a small part untreated so that you can use garaged door openers and the like. Also the transponder is hidden from your view by the mirror, and thus doesn't affect your vision).

While you can leave them in the glove box or under the seat or whatever, it may not always register, and there's no way to know without actually driving through a toll booth -- and even then it sometimes might register and sometimes might not. Putting it behind the grill seems like a good idea -- there's lots of space back there, it's surrounded by relatively little plastic and not a lot of metal, and shouldn't have a problem getting a single to the transponder. As mentioned, if the EZ Pass isn't detected they'll take a photo of your plate and debit your account as through it was; it's just more prone to error and doesn't give you immediate feedback like the transponder does.

As for concern about tracking: there's are big plates on the front and back of every car with six to eight alphanumeric characters on them. If they really want to track you, license plate readers would work on everyone, and not just those who happen to have a transponder. You can probably build a license plate reader for under $100, including the camera, a Raspberry Pi, storage and battery (might even be able to get it down to $50 if you're clever). It would also have longer range than the transponder does, although it would require line of sight.

I actually avoided EZ-Pass for years because I had heard they had been used for ticketing (I now think it's an urban legend or a worry of what could happen; I didn't know it was actually true). I then realized that if they started doing that, people would stop using EZ-Pass. And if they really wanted to, the cameras they already have at the toll booths to register people who don't pay (or whose EZ-Pass didn't register) could easily be used for the same purpose without having a transponder in your car.

I also remember when it was found that NYC was tracking EZ-Pass transponders for traffic purposes. It was a big deal for a bit on the tech sites, but it was pointed out that NYC uses a number of mechanism to monitor traffic, and this was just one of them (I forget the others at the moment). This is all a big catch-22, trading convenience for anonymity, just like you do when you use Facebook or whatnot. It just happens that most of the time you want the service more than you want the thing you lose, or that the loss is small enough to be worth the trade.

Apparently Massachusetts is considering getting rid of all conventional toll lanes and replacing them entirely with EZ-Pass. If you don't have one, they'll just use your license plate to send you the bill.

-- Joe

Actually the E Z Pass does have an internal battery. That is how it was hacked. When it gets read the battery has to power it and the circuit senses that voltage drop and signals you to the read. In the beginning in NJ the batteries were dying and E Z Pass was charging for replacements. After that uproar they improved the battery. In today's environment there are cameras everywhere. If they don't see you from that there is always your cell phone. Or if you have a modern car with something like On-Star or whatever they call it, they can find you. I have gone through the toll lanes and had misreads, they have your picture and just bill your E Z Pass account. Used to be they would add an administrative fee, with all of the problems they have had they don't do that anymore. They DID slap a $1 fee per month onto everyone's E Z Pass account just because they could! Thanks, Gov Christie! If you want to go "off grid" it is getting harder and harder. Watch Breaking Bad final season.

[jangell]

Actually the E Z Pass does have an internal battery. That is how it was hacked. When it gets read the battery has to power it and the circuit senses that voltage drop and signals you to the read. In the beginning in NJ the batteries were dying and E Z Pass was charging for replacements. After that uproar they improved the battery.

I did not know that -- I had assumed they were simple passive RFID tags, but I just did more research and found numerous references to batteries in the devices used in many states. I admit I was wondering how he had hacked it to add a light/buzzer thing; I just assumed he added his own power. You'd think they'd add a switch to turn them off if they were battery powered, though. And I wonder why they didn't just use a purely passive system like RFID so that they didn't have to deal with batteries.


In today's environment there are cameras everywhere. If they don't see you from that there is always your cell phone.

Cell phones are an excellent point, and much more useful to track a person than an EZ-Pass transponder would be. Android and iOS allow you to opt-in (I think it's opt-in, anyway) to sharing your location data so that you they can create their own maps of areas and to figure out what the traffic is like. My iPhone will even tell me how long it will take me to get home, or -- more interestingly -- how long it will take me to get to work or my garage based on the days and times I tend to go to those place.

Stores can track where people are and how long they are in particular based on their cell phone's cell, WiFi or Bluetooth radios. They don't actually care about YOU per say, but the aggregate data about who goes where and when for how long so that they can better design their store and advertising. They also do a lot of tracking of purchases (with loyalty cards or simply credit/debit cars used in-store), to the point that Target was able to predict when women were pregnant before they told anyone else based on changes in their purchasing habits. They also had to modify their super-targetted circular mailers to be less targeted, because people found it creepy when items were targeted so specifically at them.

Also, here's a great fun Onion video about cameras being everywhere (and not even surveillance cameras): http://www.theonion.com/video/police-slog-through-40000-insipid-party-pics-to-fi,14337/


Or if you have a modern car with something like On-Star or whatever they call it, they can find you. I have gone through the toll lanes and had misreads, they have your picture and just bill your E Z Pass account. Used to be they would add an administrative fee, with all of the problems they have had they don't do that anymore. They DID slap a $1 fee per month onto everyone's E Z Pass account just because they could! Thanks, Gov Christie!

I don't think MA has any surcharge on EZ-Pass accounts, but they also haven't had the problems you seem to be having in NJ either. I have gone through toll lanes and not had the "paid" light illuminate, but it was deducted based on the license plate image just as you say.


If you want to go "off grid" it is getting harder and harder.

The fiction books "Daemon", "Freedom TM" and "Kill Decision" by Daniel Suarez talk a lot about information availability and surveillance, although in a different way. There's a lot of sci-fi sounding tech in that book that is either actually real or very close to real (fMRI usage, MetalStorm-style firearms, self-driving cars, 3D printing, augmented reality, etc -- the first book is about four years old, incidentally, when all this tech was a bit more nascent), that if I didn't follow tech as closely as I do I'd have thought he just made it up.


Watch Breaking Bad final season.

That is an excellent show.

-- Joe

[Bill6298]

I did not know that -- I had assumed they were simple passive RFID tags

Florida killed off the battery powered SunPass in favor of the passive models. They actually forced me to migrate by giving me a free passive model without the battery. No more audible feedback that the thing is working.