Door sag on the new Delorean

[n29we]

Well the new car arrived last night from FL. It's been sleeping in a garage since the owner passed away in 2001. Anyway I had new lift struts ready to install and the install went smoothly but the drivers door doesn't go all the way to the top. I'm guessing the torsion bar is weak or broken? Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks Jim O

[ccurzio]

Cold weather never helps these matters. Everyone's doors tend to droop a bit during the winter months.

Wait until warmer weather before deciding if the torsion bar needs adjusting. If you try adjusting it now, you'll find your door bangs open during the warmer months.

[Jonathan]

+1 on what Chris said. There seems to be a noticeable difference above or below 70 degrees F.


...and the install went smoothly but the drivers door doesn't go all the way to the top ON IT'S OWN (?)

Assuming you meant the door doesn't go all the way to the top unassisted, right? As opposed to it won't go up all the way even if you use your hand, i.e. something is blocking it.

[louielouie2000]

You'd know if the torsion bar was "broken"- you wouldn't be able to open the door at all. Like the others said, wait until warmer weather & see what happens. More than likely the door isn't opening all the way on it's own because of the cold temperatures affecting your gas struts. If the door still sags when it's warmer, then look into getting the torsion bar adjusted. I'd suggest going to a local owners club gathering (DeLorean Mid Atlantic for you) or taking the car to PJ Grady since he's nearby.

[DeLorean]

Ditto on the bar not being broken, if it's broken you won't be lifting that door up without both hands from the exterior of the car, as it weighs about 100 lbs. the gas struts do almost nothing if the bar is busted.

Also, normal when cold is- door opens about 3/4 of the way, and you have to help it the rest of the way, but it should then stay. in 80 degree temps? the door will operate normally, and should open by itself fully, without bouncing.

[jmettee]

Good test on the torsion bar setting (no matter what the temperature is): without the gas spring installed, the door should hang almost closed, but with about a 6" gap at the bottom. If it sits all the way closed, it's either too weak or your roof is starting to delaminate from the body (becoming more of a problem as the bond fails with age).

[NightFlyer]

Cold weather. Wait for warmer ambient temps before assuming there's a torsion bar issue.

That said, I actual prefer struts that require a slight manual assist to get the doors into the fully open position, as strong struts will cause stress/wear on the aforementioned roof box and ball stud mountings. Of course, the ultimate choice is yours, but if going with a strut that ultimately causes the doors to bounce upon reaching the fully opened position, you might want to consider reinforcing the roof box and the ball stud mounting (there's a few products available on the market to reinforce the ball stud mounting). I'm still running the stock/OEM struts that came on my car from Dunmurry, and although I do need to manually assist them to the fully open position (less than an inch of travel), the struts hold them fully open just fine once in that position during the entire driving season. And my roof box and ball stud mountings look as new without any issues (which is preferred, because I'd really rather not mess with them if I don't have to). In the current ambient temps, my struts will only hold the doors between the 1/2 and 3/4 of the way open. Even after manually assisting to full open, they'll droop back down in the current ambient temps. But I also don't drive my car in the winter, so who cares. Food for thought for a new guy...

[n29we]

Cold weather. Wait for warmer ambient temps before assuming there's a torsion bar issue.

That said, I actual prefer struts that require a slight manual assist to get the doors into the fully open position, as strong struts will cause stress/wear on the aforementioned roof box and ball stud mountings. Of course, the ultimate choice is yours, but if going with a strut that ultimately causes the doors to bounce upon reaching the fully opened position, you might want to consider reinforcing the roof box and the ball stud mounting (there's a few products available on the market to reinforce the ball stud mounting). I'm still running the stock/OEM struts that came on my car from Dunmurry, and although I do need to manually assist them to the fully open position (less than an inch of travel), the struts hold them fully open just fine once in that position during the entire driving season. And my roof box and ball stud mountings look as new without any issues (which is preferred, because I'd really rather not mess with them if I don't have to). In the current ambient temps, my struts will only hold the doors between the 1/2 and 3/4 of the way open. Even after manually assisting to full open, they'll droop back down in the current ambient temps. But I also don't drive my car in the winter, so who cares. Food for thought for a new guy...

Thanks for the input!! When I got the car the drivers door strut would not even keep it up a little. The passenger door strut would keep it up a little but neither would hold them at the top or near even if helping them. The passenger side door with new strut will go nice and smoothly to the top and hold. The Drivers door with new strut will go up about 3/4 and stop. I can help it up but it will come back down to the 3/4 position. These struts were bought new from DMC TX. The workshop I have the car in is only kept about 55 degrees. BTW The torsion bar looks fine on drivers side. As quite a few have said I'll wait for temps to rise and see what happens thanks

[refugeefromcalif]

The passenger side door with new strut will go nice and smoothly to the top and hold. The Drivers door with new strut will go up about 3/4 and stop. I can help it up but it will come back down to the 3/4 position.

Just for Grins and Giggles, swap the 2 struts and see if the both doors still work the same.
I've bought New struts that didn't work as well as the old one(s).

George

[NightFlyer]

Thanks for the input!! When I got the car the drivers door strut would not even keep it up a little. The passenger door strut would keep it up a little but neither would hold them at the top or near even if helping them. The passenger side door with new strut will go nice and smoothly to the top and hold. The Drivers door with new strut will go up about 3/4 and stop. I can help it up but it will come back down to the 3/4 position. These struts were bought new from DMC TX. The workshop I have the car in is only kept about 55 degrees. BTW The torsion bar looks fine on drivers side. As quite a few have said I'll wait for temps to rise and see what happens thanks

Hmmm... at 55 degrees with new struts, they should be able to at least hold the door in the full open position. You'd also expect the new struts to mirror the performance of each other. And unless some kind of modification has been done, the doors roughly weigh the same, so there's no reason that they shouldn't perform as near equals unless there's a strut or torsion bar issue. As refugeefromcalif suggested, I'd try swapping the struts and see if you get the same results. That way you'll know if it's a defective new strut, or if it's the torsion bar needing to be wound up a spline or two on the driver's side. As the driver's side door sees more use over the life of the car than the passenger side door, it's not uncommon for the driver's side torsion bar to wear (lose elasticity - stored kinetic energy) a little quicker than the passenger side bar.

Also check the ball stud mounting (making sure that it's solid and straight) and inspect the roof box for separation issues, as either of those issues could also affect the performance of the doors.

Just make sure that you rule everything else out first before considering a torsion bar adjustment, as that is always the last fix that should be considered.

Best of luck :thumbup:

[mluder]

Hmmm... at 55 degrees with new struts, they should be able to at least hold the door in the full open position. You'd also expect the new struts to mirror the performance of each other. And unless some kind of modification has been done, the doors roughly weigh the same, so there's no reason that they shouldn't perform as near equals unless there's a strut or torsion bar issue. As refugeefromcalif suggested, I'd try swapping the struts and see if you get the same results. That way you'll know if it's a defective new strut, or if it's the torsion bar needing to be wound up a spline or two on the driver's side. As the driver's side door sees more use over the life of the car than the passenger side door, it's not uncommon for the driver's side torsion bar to wear (lose elasticity - stored kinetic energy) a little quicker than the passenger side bar.

Also check the ball stud mounting (making sure that it's solid and straight) and inspect the roof box for separation issues, as either of those issues could also affect the performance of the doors.

Just make sure that you rule everything else out first before considering a torsion bar adjustment, as that is always the last fix that should be considered.

Best of luck :thumbup:

Not ruling out some of the other potential problem areas mentioned here, I have brand new struts from Houston and on a cool day like today (54 degrees) even when I help it up, it still sags back down a couple inches. Definitely wait until warmer weather before messing with the torsion bars. You could cause more problems down the road - like a bent door (taco-ing) or causing the roof box to come loose.

If you do find that it's the torsion bars then get some help with them. You can do serious damage (expensive) if you don't know what you're doing.

Cheers
Steven

[Rich_NYS]

44 degrees w/brand new Strong Arm struts, my doors opened ~75%. If I assisted them to the top, they stayed there.

[Jonathan]

Anyone out there can pursue perfection if they so desire, but the reality is that not every DeLorean you see is capable of having flawlessly opening and closing doors. Some only take a little adjustment here or there to the striker pins, latches, or new struts. Others may take adjustments to the hinges or torsion bars. Some may need the roof box reworked. Even something as trivial as the weather striping getting in the way can make for that pursuit of perfectly functioning doors to be very consuming or unobtainable. Maybe it is possible with every car, but not everyone gets lucky and has an easy fix. The doors can be a "good enough" part of the car for many as sticking with your own dead brown grass can be a wiser option than chasing your buddies green grass.

[NightFlyer]

44 degrees w/brand new Strong Arm struts, my doors opened ~75%. If I assisted them to the top, they stayed there.

That's only cause you're running superior (and cheaper) Amazon struts :thumbup:

[mluder]

Not to derail this thread too much more... My DMC struts were a couple years old and not getting it up any more. Thought I'd try something else so I ordered the "soft lift" struts from Special T... they're supposed to go up quick and then slow down the last few inches. With no adjustment to the torsion bar the door shot up and bounced at the top. I immediately removed them for fear of destroying my roof box.

Cheers
Steven

[NightFlyer]

When my stock/OEM struts finally go, I plan on trying to have them professionally rebuilt to original specs. Absent that, I'd probably go with the Strong Arm struts from Amazon.

[Rich]

....My DMC struts were a couple years old and not getting it up any more. Thought I'd try something else so I ordered the "soft lift" struts from Special T... they're supposed to go up quick and then slow down the last few inches. With no adjustment to the torsion bar the door shot up and bounced at the top. I immediately removed them for fear of destroying my roof box.

Are you sure you are not still overloading your roof box - at the torsion bar mounts now - because the torsion bars got up-torqued by a PO and have not been de-torqued to work with good struts?

Remember, the roof box (at least the part that the torsion bar brackets anchor to) sees none of the door bounce impact so removing those new "bouncy" struts will not keep the roof box from delaminating.

Yes, too much door bounce isn't good, mainly for the lower strut pivot mount. Maybe that's what you were trying to save.

Over-torqued torsion bars cause door bounce with new struts. Maybe not every new strut, but it's a pretty common event, something that is bound to occur if any uninformed PO or a hack wrench ever got hold of your car in the past and upped them more than maybe one notch from the factory setting. Even just one notch can do it. As noted in other threads, door struts eventually lose charge (normal), doors droop (normal and due to strut degradation), bars get up-torqued to (mistakenly) compensate because somebody was too cheap to buy new struts or just jumped to that solution, then eventually new struts are fitted and make the door bounce at the top because the (previously up-torqued) bars are over-lifting vs. design specs.

[Rich_NYS]

That's only cause you're running superior (and cheaper) Amazon struts :thumbup:

Yessir! Solid recommendation from the NightFlyer administration.... :race:

[mluder]

Are you sure you are not still overloading your roof box - at the torsion bar mounts now - because the torsion bars got up-torqued by a PO and have not been de-torqued to work with good struts?


Not too concerned about this - My torsion bars have been checked and re-set twice now by Toby at DMCNW. Both times were after new struts were installed. Unless all the struts I've been getting from DMC are under powered?

Cheers
Steven

[JRNY13]

When I got my car the doors didn't come close to reaching the top on their own. I replaced the struts with Houston ones and it was only marginally better. I then replaced those with Special T struts and it's a lot better. The driver's side goes 90% to the top on its own. The passenger side bounces a little too much for my comfort. I simply guide it to the top when opened. The trouble is reminding a passenger to do the same.

[NightFlyer]

Does anyone know if Grady still sells his own strut? I believe that as of a decade ago, the struts that Grady was selling were either super close or matched the specs of the stock/OEM struts - can anyone confirm this?

[awildermode]

Another thing to look for is cracked fiberglass where the lower door strut mount is and/or a bent strut mount. Your struts may be fully extended but a damaged strut mount/fiberglass will make the door sag. You can get reinforcement brackets from any vendor.

[kings1527]

Not to derail this thread too much more... My DMC struts were a couple years old and not getting it up any more. Thought I'd try something else so I ordered the "soft lift" struts from Special T... they're supposed to go up quick and then slow down the last few inches. With no adjustment to the torsion bar the door shot up and bounced at the top. I immediately removed them for fear of destroying my roof box.

Cheers
Steven

I had the same problem, Steven. But it only occurred a few times. It was almost as if the struts needed to be broken-in with some opening/closing revolutions. I've had them in for about a year and the soft-lift struts are nice. If they're not used for a long time (such as vendor storage or a significant amount of time in the garage), the gas build up that causes the soft-lift seems to go away until you use it again.

[mluder]

I had the same problem, Steven. But it only occurred a few times. It was almost as if the struts needed to be broken-in with some opening/closing revolutions. I've had them in for about a year and the soft-lift struts are nice. If they're not used for a long time (such as vendor storage or a significant amount of time in the garage), the gas build up that causes the soft-lift seems to go away until you use it again.

Interesting. I did try cycling them a couple of times once installed but I probably needed to be a little more patient.
Maybe I'll chuck en back on and see what happens.

Cheers
Steven

[Patrick C]

For years I had vendor struts that worked fine until they wore out. Then I replaced them with the Amazon struts that people were raving about. I also replaced my door strut brackets with Heninger's upgrades at the same time.

Video of Amazon struts here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN5ep1jQo9c

I wasn't happy with this performance, so I replaced them with Hervey's soft lift struts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1QPhjivbtE

Videos after Torsion bar adjustment (down one notch):

Driver side:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eapUS6KByI
Passenger side:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMAZyJaHQrY

[kajcienski]

Does anyone know if Grady still sells his own strut? I believe that as of a decade ago, the struts that Grady was selling were either super close or matched the specs of the stock/OEM struts - can anyone confirm this?

I believe he only sells the "soft lift" that SpecialT is/was selling. Not sure. You should shoot him a call.

[NightFlyer]

Using the Wayback Machine, I was able to find this description of Grady's door struts:

"Our door and hood lift pistons are custom made for us and more closely resemble the originals in function and appearance than any other supplier. They use specially selected gas pressures, piston rod lengths, and even the finish on the ball studs. All of our lift supports have self cleaning pistons with O-ring seals and Teflon backup rings. They also feature exclusive triple-lobe rubber seals riding on chromium plated hardened steel piston rods for better gas and oil retention. Our manufacturer claims a design life of over half a million cycles in continuous use… two and a half times longer than competitive lift pistions. Some companies try to compensate for their single lip seals which are prone to leaking by using a higher gas charge. This places added stress on the lower mounting body ball stud, makes the door gain speed as it opens, and requires more frequent torsion bar adjustments. If you don't agree that our pistons are the best available, regardless of price, you can return them for a full refund."

Not sure if this is what he's still selling or not, as his current website doesn't offer a description. I'm currently using Grady struts from that era for my hood and louver and can personally attest to their premium quality. Wishing I would have bought some of the door struts back then, even though I didn't need them...

[NightFlyer]

For years I had vendor struts that worked fine until they wore out. Then I replaced them with the Amazon struts that people were raving about. I also replaced my door strut brackets with Heninger's upgrades at the same time.

Video of Amazon struts here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN5ep1jQo9c

I wasn't happy with this performance, so I replaced them with Hervey's soft lift struts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1QPhjivbtE

Videos after Torsion bar adjustment (down one notch):

Driver side:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eapUS6KByI
Passenger side:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMAZyJaHQrY

Those are great reference videos Patrick!

Before trying the Amazon struts, had you (or a known PO) messed with the torsion bar settings at all?

[Patrick C]

Those are great reference videos Patrick!

Before trying the Amazon struts, had you (or a known PO) messed with the torsion bar settings at all?

Before those struts, I went through Grady struts and Toby's temperature compensating struts. When I got my car, it had 6,500 miles and had been sitting for 17 years. Because of this, I believe Shannon Yocom and I did the first torsion bar adjustment my car ever had when I installed the Grady struts back in 2004. I seem to remember us kicking both bars down a notch when we installed those struts.

In any case, regardless of torsion bar adjustment, you can really see the difference in strength between Hervey's and the Amazon struts in the videos I posted since the bars remained at the same setting in the first several videos.

[NightFlyer]

Before those struts, I went through Grady struts and Toby's temperature compensating struts. When I got my car, it had 6,500 miles and had been sitting for 17 years. Because of this, I believe Shannon Yocom and I did the first torsion bar adjustment my car ever had when I installed the Grady struts back in 2004. I seem to remember us kicking both bars down a notch when we installed those struts.

In any case, regardless of torsion bar adjustment, you can really see the difference in strength between Hervey's and the Amazon struts in the videos I posted since the bars remained at the same setting in the first several videos.

Cool - I was just wondering as several owners seem to be running the Amazon struts without much issue.

I wish that all the different offered struts were rated by force/pressure, so that you'd know before purchasing if you'll get a soft strut or a strong strut...