General Farrar's car blog [Archive] - Page 4 - DMCTalk Forum

Farrar

03-05-2012, 10:42 AM

Mine is the same way, 8 washers on the driver's seat glued to each other and to the seat tracks. None on the passenger seat.

Yes, at first I thought they were corroded together, but when I got that pair loose I noticed that they were actually adhered on purpose. Now this explains why the driver's seat always looked like it sat slightly higher than the passenger seat -- the question is: why was this done? If it's on more than one car, there must have been a reason for it. I am tempted to just put one washer around each stud on both seats before I reinstall them, but if there was a good reason to put all eight washers on one seat, then maybe I should find that reason before I start playing with the JB Weld and Rustoleum...

Just thought of something: if the wood behind the passenger seat has come undone from the bottom, that means there are only a few screws holding it onto the other panels, right? I should be able to remove it. A friend of mine has access to a big work table and a jig saw, so we could cut a replacement panel.

Bitsyncmaster

03-06-2012, 08:27 AM

Without the washers under the seats, you will have a hard time sliding the seat forward or aft. I think it makes clearance for the carpet to not rub when sliding the seat.

Farrar

03-06-2012, 09:14 AM

Without the washers under the seats, you will have a hard time sliding the seat forward or aft. I think it makes clearance for the carpet to not rub when sliding the seat.

So does that mean that I should put 8 washers under the passenger seat, too? Or put four under each seat?

sean

03-06-2012, 09:18 AM

So does that mean that I should put 8 washers under the passenger seat, too? Or put four under each seat?

Id go with 8 all the way around.

Farrar

03-06-2012, 12:44 PM

Id go with 8 all the way around.

Thanks. Good thing they come in packs of 100...

FYI, I ordered washers with a 10mm hole and 20mm outer diameter. That's not quite as wide as the original washers, but I couldn't find anything available in that exact size. And at 2.2mm thick I think they will do the job of raising the seats past the carpet.

In other news, can anyone think of a material which is just as strong as 1/2" plywood but not as thick? I am considering replacing the wood panels behind the seats (one of which was damaged by water anyway) and would like to adhere some soundproofing material to the back. But the soundproofing material is at least 1/4" thick. That means the panels would have to be half as thick as stock. Lighter than plywood would also be good, but I am sure that's a tall order -- for light weight, strength, and durability, it's hard to beat The Original Carbon Fiber©.

sean

03-06-2012, 01:12 PM

Any thought given to some thin plywood wrapped in fiberglass? You could probably cut the thickness in half and still be plenty strong with a few layers of fiberglass.

Farrar

03-06-2012, 01:20 PM

Any thought given to some thin plywood wrapped in fiberglass? You could probably cut the thickness in half and still be plenty strong with a few layers of fiberglass.

That's a good thought. I wish I had access to my porch right now as there are a number of things I would like to make out of fiberglass... unfortunately, they're renovating our building so for the next few months I have no outside space to set up a workbench. I figure, however, that I can get away with setting up a couple of sawhorses in the parking lot one Saturday or Sunday when the weather is good, run an extension cord out the apartment window, and cut a new panel.

What about buying a sheet of 1/2" fiberglass and cutting it to fit? Can you cut fiberglass with a jigsaw or saber saw? Would the edges need to be re-epoxied for strength?

stevedmc

03-06-2012, 01:22 PM

In other news, can anyone think of a material which is just as strong as 1/2" plywood but not as thick?

Have you considered using transparent aluminum?

Farrar

03-06-2012, 01:24 PM

Have you considered using transparent aluminum?

No, but I could use Lexan and be able to see the mice building nests in the car...

Farrar

sean

03-06-2012, 01:25 PM

What about buying a sheet of 1/2" fiberglass and cutting it to fit? Can you cut fiberglass with a jigsaw or saber saw? Would the edges need to be re-epoxied for strength?

I didnt know you could by sheets of 1/2" fiberglass. It would probably take a special blade for your jig saw to cut it and of course wear a mask. Sanding the cuts is probably all you would need to do afterward but again, I didnt know you could get 1/2" fiberglass sheets.

No, but I could use Lexan and be able to see the mice building nests in the car...

Farrar

Not if its covered in sound proofing.

Farrar

03-06-2012, 01:32 PM

I didnt know you could by sheets of 1/2" fiberglass.

You can, but they're expensive!!!

Not if its covered in sound proofing.

Ah, you saw through my joke. Damn. :lol:

Seriously, though, that brings up a point -- I bet plywood is better at dampening sound than any kind of plastic or fiberglass.

I might just see what kind of wiggle room I have behind the 1/2" plywood panels. If I have 1/2", then that's enough for some serious soundproofing, weight gain be damned.

stevedmc

03-06-2012, 01:39 PM

weight gain be damned.

People always amuse me when they talk about making modifications to their cars to decrease vehicle weight. People never seem to consider just loosing 20 or 30 pounds off of the driver.

sean

03-06-2012, 01:40 PM

Have you considered using transparent aluminum?

Pfft, that's so 1986
http://www.startrek.com/uploads/assets/articles/4430b22bddd62f953258cc328340cd1d9f05cfb2.jpg

People never seem to consider just loosing 20 or 30 pounds off of the driver.

BURN!!! Farrar just got Riced!

Farrar

03-06-2012, 01:46 PM

People always amuse me when they talk about making modifications to their cars to decrease vehicle weight. People never seem to consider just loosing 20 or 30 pounds off of the driver.

Over the past year, I have been trying to make my car faster by losing weight. Unfortunately, I am thinner but heavier than I was six months ago. Muscle is denser than fat. I have yet to reach the point where I am losing size AND weight -- it's a long process. But look at it this way: if I am lighter and so is the car, that's a win-win, right? :)

P.S.: Carrying 100+ pounds of tools in the trunk doesn't help the car be faster, either, but it does help make it more reliable. :lol:

stevedmc

03-06-2012, 02:04 PM

Over the past year, I have been trying to make my car faster by losing weight. Unfortunately, I am thinner but heavier than I was six months ago.

You look like you have been losing weight to me. I'm not one to compliment another man's appearance but yeah, Farrar doesn't look as big to me as he was a year ago.

sean

03-06-2012, 02:10 PM

P.S.: Carrying 100+ pounds of tools in the trunk doesn't help the car be faster, either, but it does help make it more reliable. :lol:

Double edged sword right there...

Farrar

03-06-2012, 02:29 PM

Farrar doesn't look as big to me as he was a year ago.

I'm not as big, but I am heavier. It's weird. Back then I weighed 205. Now my pants are two inches slimmer and I weigh 225! That is proof that I am gaining muscle, but that I still have more fat to lose. I am doing it the slow way: instead of working out really hard at the gym and going on a crash diet, I am simply eating healthier and going on long walks. I figure it's better for my long-term health. Plus walking around the neighborhood at a brisk pace is free. Gym memberships are expensive.

Back on topic: my McMaster order arrived a few minutes ago! Exciting times. :)

Double edged sword right there...

True. And actually, I only carry my electrical kit, spare belts, and a few metric wrenches with me. It's just these days with the car not going anywhere except for short test drives, I might as well just leave the toolboxes in it. :lol:

Well, it looks like I wasted a few bucks. Not the first time with this car, of course. But anyway, check this out. The screw and washer on the left came out of the car. The screw and washer on the right are -- or were going to be -- their McMaster replacements. (Of six such screws in the interior of the car -- two holding down the shifter plate, and four holding down the glove box, this is the only one which looks original.) The stock screw is definitely too small to be #8 size, but the screw on the right is #6 and it's obviously smaller. Is there an elusive #7 size for sheet metal screws out there somewhere, or is this some metric-sized sheet metal screw I've never heard of before?

8829

But at least I did have some success. Check out the replacement for the missing rear body bolt, compared with the original on the left:

8830

I think that will do the trick! BTW, "safety blue" was cheaper, and since it's in the pontoon no one will ever see it anyway. I wanted to spring for stainless. Maybe some day.

And while we're at it, say hello to my new license plate bracket mounts, pre-installation:

8831

The jack nuts came with an "installation tool," but it's what you would expect for free: a piece of crap. My "installation tool" will be a much longer Allen-head screw and a spacer. Fortunately these are SAE sized so I can get those at my local Ace Hardware.

But back to the sheet metal screws, the ones that go into the speed-nuts -- are they metric? Or size #7 that I've never heard about? I feel silly now -- I have 50 each of the screws and countersunk washers. Maybe I will just buy smaller speed-nuts! :lol:

jawn101

03-06-2012, 07:57 PM

The jack nuts came with an "installation tool," but it's what you would expect for free: a piece of crap. My "installation tool" will be a much longer Allen-head screw and a spacer. Fortunately these are SAE sized so I can get those at my local Ace Hardware.

If the tool you got is the little metal shim with a hole at either end, it works surprisingly well... you don't need much more than that :)

Farrar

03-06-2012, 08:18 PM

If the tool you got is the little metal shim with a hole at either end, it works surprisingly well... you don't need much more than that :)

Really? Okay, it looks pretty flimsy to me, but I might as well give it a try! Thanks.

jawn101

03-06-2012, 08:28 PM

Really? Okay, it looks pretty flimsy to me, but I might as well give it a try! Thanks.

If you're doing them in large quantity you might find yourself wishing for something a little easier to use, but for just the two at the license plate frame or other one-offs, the shim works a treat.

Farrar

03-06-2012, 08:47 PM

If you're doing them in large quantity you might find yourself wishing for something a little easier to use, but for just the two at the license plate frame or other one-offs, the shim works a treat.

Yeah, it worked pretty well just now -- I replaced the one jack-nut that was missing, and then stopped when I realized that the screws I bought are a hair too short. Three more to go, but I will have to buy more machine screws first. :lol:

BTW, when the original jack-nut fell out, it left a hole larger than original, which is why I went with 1/4"-20 machine screws. I had to push the new jacknut in with my thumb, but it didn't deform.

Also, the heads of the new screws are just big enough to fill the countersink in the license plate frame. In fact, they may stick out a hair, but I don't think anyone will notice, especially since they're black. It's too dark to get a picture now, but I will try to snap one tomorrow.

Farrar

03-07-2012, 11:57 AM

Okay, now that my girlfriend is out of town for two days, it's time for me to turn the livingroom into a workshop. ;)

First task: the loose seat studs. Do I JB-Weld them back on, or should I ask a friend of mine who has a TIG welder at his house if I can bring the seats to him? I don't know the different types of welding (TIG, MIG, is there another?) so I am not sure if his would be the right type. What do y'all think?

dmc6960

03-07-2012, 01:50 PM

Any weld will be better than JB....Weld...:hmm:

TIG.

jawn101

03-07-2012, 02:11 PM

Any weld will be better than JB....Weld...:hmm:

TIG.

Especially with something that will see constant shear forces like the seat bolts, JB "weld" just won't cut it.

Farrar

03-07-2012, 02:18 PM

Any weld will be better than JB....Weld...:hmm:

TIG.

Especially with something that will see constant shear forces like the seat bolts, JB "weld" just won't cut it.

OK, thanks, guys. I have sent him an e-mail. Fingers crossed -- he's a pretty busy guy.

dvonk

03-07-2012, 11:26 PM

Especially with something that will see constant shear forces like the seat bolts, JB "weld" just won't cut it.

+1, JB Weld is great stuff in certain circumstances, but it is too brittle to flex if either piece of the 'weld' moves at all.

Farrar

03-07-2012, 11:33 PM

+1, JB Weld is great stuff in certain circumstances, but it is to brittle to flex if either piece of the 'weld' moves at all.

Sounds to me like JB-Weld is not an adhesive at all. Disappointing.

Anyway, I hope the guy I know with the TIG welder at his house e-mails me back.

In other news, remember the plywood behind the passenger seat? I asked a friend of mine if it would be possible to cut something that large in his shop. He said it's easy-peasy and will take a matter of minutes to cut -- all three pieces if I desire. Nice! Now I just have to wait for him to get back in town. And buy a saber saw and a sheet of 1/2" plywood. :D

jawn101

03-07-2012, 11:36 PM

He said it's easy-peasy and will take a matter of minutes to cut -- all three pieces if I desire. Nice!

Is there a template for cutting these out there somewhere? It seems like the consensus is that in most cars, there's more epoxy than wood back there and it's impossible to get the panels off without destroying them. My passenger side and center piece are OK, but the driver's side is dry rotted at the bottom where the compartment door sits, so I'd love to make a new one. But what's left of the panel is so fragile there's no way I'd get it off in a piece that could be used as a template.

Farrar

03-07-2012, 11:40 PM

jawn101

03-07-2012, 11:48 PM

I would use a tape measure to measure from the top of the panel all the way to the floor before you remove what's left of the panel, and then use that measurement when you make your marks to cut the new piece.

My driver's side wood panel is still adhered. I'd make a template for you, but 1) I can't remove it without probably cracking the fiberglass, and 2) knowing how DeLoreans were put together, no two of these wood panels are alike. :lol:

Thanks for the offer :) One of these days I'll have to attack that project.

On another note, I sort of feel like we should start our own forum called 'Jon and Farrar talk to each other all day.com' as we seem to run into each other in a lot of threads.. :lol:

Farrar

03-08-2012, 12:04 AM

Thanks for the offer :) One of these days I'll have to attack that project.

If you're lucky, you will be able to find a good noise dampener to adhere to the back of the plywood panels. After looking back there I think I have decided that I can probably get away with 1/2" of foam, assuming it is soft enough to compress where the tolerance isn't quite so large.

On another note, I sort of feel like we should start our own forum called 'Jon and Farrar talk to each other all day.com' as we seem to run into each other in a lot of threads.. :lol:

I have questions, you have answers... Seems reasonable enough, right?

Farrar

Update: McMaster sells an adhesive-backed foam rubber which reduces noise by 75% and is one inch thick. It is soft, so it is compressible -- I wonder if I could get away with it behind the wood panels.

jawn101

03-08-2012, 10:05 AM

Farrar

03-08-2012, 10:21 AM

The thing that would concern me about putting it behind is that you've then got two adhesive bonds, one from the wood to the foam, and one from the foam to the fiberglass. The foam will probably disintegrate or rip and the wood may come loose as a result. Why not just dynamat over the front of the replacement wood panels?

Dynamat is good for increasing the density of a panel to move its resonant frequency down to a point where it's no longer annoying. I was looking for something which actually absorbs sound. The reasons I would adhere it to the back of the panel would be because I need the material to face the direction the sound is coming from.

The foam is a combination of open-cell and closed-cell polyurethane. Polyurethane has a very long lifespan (as you can tell from our facias) so I am not worried about it disintegrating.

Adhesive "from the foam to the fiberglass"? I don't get your meaning there, I'm afraid. I plan to "line" the wood with the foam, and then adhere the wood to the fiberglass like stock.

jawn101

03-08-2012, 10:37 AM

Adhesive "from the foam to the fiberglass"? I don't get your meaning there, I'm afraid. I plan to "line" the wood with the foam, and then adhere the wood to the fiberglass like stock.

I was envisioning a 'sandwich' of materials like this (the fiberglass is the body tub):

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8837&d=1331220881

Please forgive the crudity of this model, I didn't have time to make it to scale or to paint it.

If that's not what you meant then I stand corrected. I do get what you're saying about sound absorption vs mitigation. I am just not sure how you'll be able to do it without compromising the integrity of those wood panels. Are you just planning to tuck the foam around the edges? Or make a "sandwich" that has fiberglass, wood, foam, wood?

Farrar

03-08-2012, 10:55 AM

jawn101

03-08-2012, 11:03 AM

I now see that we are talking of different installations. Here's a (crude) diagram of what I am talking about. This is a side-view -- the empty space to the left holds the battery.

8840

Insulation would go only on the wood panel behind the seat. I have not got around to the floor yet as my carpets are toast, but I imagine something akin to Dynamat would work to lower the resonant frequency of the body tub in those areas.

I see what you're getting at and I think we're talking about the same thing - but the wood isn't just glued to the floor of the tub, it's adhered to the whole back structure as well. So in your diagram, the 'red' adhesive should be under the blue foam where it bonds to the body - unless you're planning to change that. But without that adhesive there, I would think the panel would rattle around.

Farrar

03-08-2012, 11:05 AM

the wood isn't just glued to the floor of the tub, it's adhered to the whole back structure as well.

It IS?! Holy crap -- my car is worse off than I thought. In my car, those panels are only stuck to the floor and nothing else. I had no idea they were supposed to be adhered elsewhere. *sigh* More work for me, then...

jawn101

03-08-2012, 11:09 AM

It IS?! Holy crap -- my car is worse off than I thought. In my car, those panels are only stuck to the floor and nothing else. I had no idea they were supposed to be adhered elsewhere. *sigh* More work for me, then...

I was afraid that was going to be your answer... maybe that's why you think you need foam behind them :)

Of course I will caveat this whole conversation by saying that they are adhered *in my car* and maybe my installer was just overzealous. But I believe they are like that in most cars.

dmc6960

03-08-2012, 01:45 PM

Both you guys are way over thinking in a spot you really dont need to.

The wood panel behind the seats, which closes off the battery bay and storage compartment doesn't need all the soundproofing your thinking about. A layer of dynamat extreme over the wood would be plenty. Due to the thickness of the wood and all of the epoxy (supposedly, perhaps not in Farrar's case) those panels do not pass much sound or resonate themselves. What you really need to take care of in the back, is the bottom of the shelf (between the two electrical bays) and the rear wall below the rear window (both fiberglass and OEM wooden closing panel). THOSE are the most crucial areas of soundproofing behind the seats. (and the "OEM" body tub holes if you have an early VIN).

Much of the sound being passed into a car is in lower frequencies. These are very difficult to "absorb", as the foam must be very very thick. The alternative is blocking the sound, which can be accomplished with minimal space, at the expense of weight. A "Loaded Mass Damper" is what your looking for here. It is best to be sandwiched between two pieces of acoustic foam to decouple it from the solid surfaces. McMaster sells both acoustic foam and 1lbs/sqft vinyl mass dampers which I will be using for just this purpose in the next month or two. This type of soundproofing will be very effective in the rear shelf/wall area. Be sure to get some dynamat on the fiberglass first though before adding the foam sandwich!

jawn101

03-08-2012, 01:52 PM

Bitsyncmaster

03-08-2012, 03:49 PM

I agree 100%. When I did my dynamat in the car I double-layered the firewall and "Y" over the transmission. But I didn't put a single thing on the wood panels. I was just trying to figure out why our dear Farrar felt like he needed it there, and now we know!

Low on my list of things to do is to replace the wood with foam that I have covered with a few layers of fiberglass. Not only to maybe help with noise but probably drop 20 lbs. of weight.

Farrar

03-08-2012, 04:56 PM

jawn101

03-08-2012, 04:59 PM

Looks like I will have to see where the old adhesive was, is, or should be when I pull the panel out next week. After that, I will have to start with plain old plywood and take it from there. Making a new fiberglass/foam sandwich panel would be awesome, but I have way too many things to do before Orlando. I would at least like to finish my console, and that is a small amount of fiberglass fabrication!

Hey, on the plus side since your panels aren't adhered as resolutely as the rest of ours... you might be just the savior we need to make those templates for cutting new ones :) That was what I meant by "impossible to remove without destroying" :lol:

Farrar

03-08-2012, 07:24 PM

Just thought of a great license plate: "BTTFU."

Anyway...

Funny thing: the bolt I bought to replace the body bolt in the right rear pontoon is a 10mmx1.5 bolt. However, the hex head is smaller than the original bolt: instead of 17mm, it is 5/8".

I also notice that it's Grade 10.9 -- I hope that's strong enough. ;)

Oh, and I had a thought about threading silicone vacuum hose through the pontoon in place of the original plastic line: take the hard plastic line out, then get a piece of coat hanger and fish it through the dead space. Then push the silicone hose over the coat hanger. It'd be like using a needle to pull thread in reverse. I'll let you know how this works, if I get a chance to try it this weekend. (I have some research to do for another English paper, and the weather might not hold out, either.)

Bitsyncmaster

03-08-2012, 07:49 PM

Oh, and I had a thought about threading silicone vacuum hose through the pontoon in place of the original plastic line: take the hard plastic line out, then get a piece of coat hanger and fish it through the dead space. Then push the silicone hose over the coat hanger. It'd be like using a needle to pull thread in reverse. I'll let you know how this works, if I get a chance to try it this weekend. (I have some research to do for another English paper, and the weather might not hold out, either.)

Just tape the new hose over the plastic pipe and then pull the plastic pipe back inside. That's what I did.

Farrar

03-08-2012, 07:52 PM

Just tape the new hose over the plastic pipe and then pull the plastic pipe back inside. That's what I did.

What kind of tape did you use? My car is so filthy that I can't get tape to stick to anything. It's why I haven't taken off my door panels -- I can't even get screws to stick to the end of a screwdriver with tape. The pollen in the air will, if nothing else, diminish the sticky's stickiness.

Bitsyncmaster

03-08-2012, 07:57 PM

What kind of tape did you use? My car is so filthy that I can't get tape to stick to anything. It's why I haven't taken off my door panels -- I can't even get screws to stick to the end of a screwdriver with tape. The pollen in the air will, if nothing else, diminish the sticky's stickiness.

The hose I used was tight on the pipe but use stretchy electrical tape just to make sure it holds. The only electrical tape I use is TARTAN 1710 pn 49656 distributed by 3M. You can find it at most hardware stores.

Spittybug

03-08-2012, 08:23 PM

Pollen is so thick here that EVERYTHING is a light green from the pine trees. Oh yeah, I've got to be the only guy in the world that gets bird poop on his car WHILE it's in the garage. I guess those birds are avoiding all of that pollen too!

Farrar

03-08-2012, 08:45 PM

Here it's the oak pollen which is bad. If I don't take a Zyrtec before I go outside, I start coughing like an asthmatic. It's awful!

Farrar

03-09-2012, 08:18 PM

OK, so feel free to pick this apart and make corrections to it. I was bored at work and started looking stuff up online and trying to think if I could make a door lock circuit which would

a) work with either solenoids or actuators
b) is cheaper than new lock module and draws less standby current than stock/LockZilla
c) be compatible with off-the-shelf remote keyless entry (RKE) systems -- the $50 kind.

8870

I think that will give you about a half-second pulse. But I am bad at math. Also, I am essentially teaching myself electronics, and if you take into account the facts that I started with no knowledge of the subject, and that I am both a bad teacher and a lazy student, then you can probably guess (correctly) that my lessons are sporadic, difficult, and confusing. This circuit may in fact make no sense at all, but I had fun drawing it. :lol: Opinions? Ron? :)

Farrar

03-11-2012, 06:33 PM

<soapbox>

For $600 plus shipping I can get carpet... and I can get a 3.0L engine from a 1992 Eagle Premier for just $100 more -- with free shipping.

What... the...

</soapbox>

sean

03-11-2012, 07:07 PM

<soapbox>

For $600 plus shipping I can get carpet... and I can get a 3.0L engine from a 1992 Eagle Premier for just $100 more -- with free shipping.

What... the...

</soapbox>
Supply and demand :hmm:

Farrar

03-13-2012, 09:40 AM

I am getting tired of waiting. With no TIG welder in sight, I am prepared to simply epoxy a jam-nut onto a big washer, then start the de-rusting and Rustoleum painting. No one is interested in selling their used carpet, and I am tired of having the console and seats in my living room. I have driven the car without carpets installed before. But driving without seats is impossible.

dmc6960

03-13-2012, 09:51 AM

If you have the parts separated from the seat and in your hand, just stop by any machine shop or even exhaust shop and have them spot the weld on for you. It'll only take a minute and probably cost $5-$10 if even that for the trouble. JB is just asking to do it again.

Farrar

03-13-2012, 10:13 AM

The jam nut will stop the stud from wiggling. The fender washer will be adhered to the jam nut just so that it won't fall off during installation. Since I have Moroso engine epoxy left over from my VOD operation, I will use a tiny bit of it instead of JB Weld. If it lets go, then I will only have to deal with reattaching the fender washers to the jam nuts the next time I take the seats out.

Farrar

03-15-2012, 01:16 PM

jawn101

03-15-2012, 01:21 PM

By the way: My efforts to get the work done at a machine shop were unsuccessful -- either the shop foreman says that they don't do jobs that small, or they didn't return the message I left on the machine, which I presume to mean the same thing. I am guessing they figure it wouldn't be worth the time for the amount of money they'd make tack-welding two studs.

What about a muffler shop? Those guys weld all day long. It's only like 10 seconds worth of work for someone with the right tools. It sounds like it's turning out to be frustrating but I still think you'll regret not welding it properly.

I bet a lot of plumbers would have welding supplies as well. Or a body shop.

Farrar

03-15-2012, 01:29 PM

What about a muffler shop? Those guys weld all day long.

There's an idea! I will see what happens.

Farrar

03-17-2012, 04:24 PM

Well, the muffler shop guys didn't seem interested. Ace Hardware has M8 jam nuts in stock, so I bought eight of them. These will take the place of the giant washers -- they're the same thickness. I will place a nylon washer between the fiberglass and the hex nuts -- in the event that anything is torqued too much, the nylon washer will sacrifice itself by deforming, thus saving the fiberglass and/or stud threads.

At least that's the plan...

Still no carpet. No one wants to sell me a used set. Maybe Houston has some old carpet they took out of a "new build" that they could sell me for cheap. I will give them a call if I have some time.

Farrar

03-17-2012, 09:16 PM

First coat of Rustoleum is on the passenger seat hardware. This Rustoleum is fantastic stuff -- I brushed on a fairly thin layer and as it dries I can see the brush-strokes vanishing. Won't help the bubly texture of the rusted metal underneath, though. :lol:

For preparation, I hit the rust with my Dremel's little wire brush, then sandpaper, then Acetone, then a vacuum cleaner to make sure the surface was super clean and there weren't any little bits hiding in the nooks and crannies. I have to wait 24 hours between coats, which means the earliest the next coat can go on is 7pm tomorrow. I plan to do a coat a night every night this week that I can, which means three to five, then re-install the seats next Saturday.

I bought some posterboard to start making templates for my custom console, and a remote keyless entry system which consists of two remotes and a control module. I will start testing that as soon as I am able, since I have only 30 days to return it if it doesn't suit my needs.

First coat is dry. Looks good so far! :D

9048

Spittybug

03-18-2012, 08:03 PM

Farrar, it's time....... save your pennies and come over to the "light" side: EFI. Ditch that old fashioned carb and find salvation.................

Farrar

03-18-2012, 08:22 PM

Farrar, it's time....... save your pennies and come over to the "light" side: EFI. Ditch that old fashioned carb and find salvation.................

I would love to, but at the moment I am working on the lock module/ remote keyless entry/ starter interrupt, fixing the seat bottoms, replacing the wood and carpet, replacing the evaporator...

BTW, here's my lock module. I finally got it open! :D

9069

From what I understand, I am to replace the two innermost/topmost resistors with 10k ones, correct?

Later that same evening

Remote Keyless Entry installation is in progress. I had to call it quits for the night, but I am hoping to get back to it later this week. It will be difficult working on this, the console, and the seats all at the same time. I hope I can keep my head on straight.

And then there's the wood panel -- that will have to wait until this weekend at the earliest, as I do not have a shop at my disposal.

Farrar

03-20-2012, 10:02 PM

Second coat of Rustoleum went on the passenger seat hardware tonight. As someone pointed out in another thread, it's nice using oil-based enamel -- if you have to wait two days between coats, no problem. Fume control while painting is being handled excellently by the bathroom vent fan. Makes me think it will be easier to fabricate small fiberglass parts than I originally thought -- no need for an outdoor workshop if I can just cover the bathroom in protective plastic and turn on the fan before I work. :D

Also made a tiny bit of progress on the RKE installation tonight, before I had to get back to my homework. The RKE module includes a way to send a ten-second signal to the parking lights when the "unlock" button is pressed. I added a relay to give my car this functionality. This makes a total of four relays -- one for the lock signal, one for the unlock signal, one for the starter kill, and one for the parking lights. There's also a "trunk pop" option which involves -- you guessed it -- another relay! (Obviously I am not using this since I don't have a trunk actuator -- yet.) I don't know where the manufacturer of this system expects folks to get all of this extra space for relays. Modern cars always seem to have everything crammed into as little space as possible. For my installation, I plan on getting a project enclosure from Radio Shack, cutting the appropriate holes in it, and mounting it inside the driver's cubby hole for easy access.

The great thing about this system is that every pulse it sends is negative. I was concerned with having to install diodes everywhere, but since all I have to do is make connections to ground, and most everything on the car is switched ground anyway, it's not as much of a fuss as I thought it would be.

Anyway, here's where I am with that:

9133

You can see that, as usual, I am labeling the relay sockets. And just for fun, I used some of the old relay sockets that I removed from the car a little while ago. :)

dvonk

03-21-2012, 10:50 AM

...and if having two people (sean & dermot) with similar avatars isnt confusing enough, enter Farrar. :lol:

sean

03-21-2012, 10:55 AM

...and if having two people (sean & dermot) with similar avatars isnt confusing enough, enter Farrar. :lol:

He just couldn't refrain from the awesome any longer :D

dvonk

03-21-2012, 10:57 AM

clearly--i guess ill just have to keep calm...

ccurzio

03-21-2012, 11:07 AM

Just made this. It's a quick-fix.

http://i.imgur.com/KsthV.png

sean

03-21-2012, 11:09 AM

Just made this. It's a quick-fix.

:D Nice!

dvonk

03-21-2012, 12:02 PM

haha, love it. :lol:

Farrar

03-22-2012, 11:53 AM

In other news, I am still looking for a set of used floor carpets for my DeLorean. As long as they are in decent shape I will be fine with them. Mine are rusty and I am not putting them back in. I can't afford new ones right now.

stevedmc

03-22-2012, 11:57 AM

...and if having two people (sean & dermot) with similar avatars isnt confusing enough, enter Farrar. :lol:

What about me?

dmc6960

03-22-2012, 12:00 PM

Ahh! Its the signature banners all over again!

Farrar

03-23-2012, 09:59 AM

What about me?

There, there, now.

The awful weather here means I have no time outside with the car. I haven't even replaced the vacuum hoses yet, and those materials arrived weeks ago. So I have decided to see what I can do inside. I think I will take some measurements and start working on a console redesign. It's been in my head for a while, and I have most of the parts I need, but I need to get things firmly on paper with actual numbers attached so I can begin making stuff.

It occurs to me that if I make the console go all the way to the floor (which I would like), plus kick-panels which do the same, I would only require a longish piece of carpet to go from the footwells to behind the seats. Until I have the money for real carpets from Houston or another vendor, I could always just cut something to fit between the kick-panels and the console. It wouldn't look great, but it would work as a stopgap measure and possibly get me to Orlando.

For kick-panel construction, I am reading up on small-scale fiberglass fabrication. Does anyone have a good book or other reference material they could recommend for this? Thanks!

Farrar

03-24-2012, 04:47 PM

I have come down with some sort of sickness, but I can still get things done inside. Today, I finished cleaning and conditioning one of the seats. Just for the sake of comparison, here's a photo.

9211

Obviously, the cleaned and conditioned one is on the left.

I think I last cleaned and conditioned the seats last summer -- while in the car, though. The leather is a lot thirstier than I expected: I had to keep reapplying conditioner before I could successfully "remove the excess with a dry cloth." The excessive shine goes away after a little while, but I do like the way the Mother's cleaner and conditioner makes the black leather black again.

Edit: I see that it's time to clean my camera lens! Sorry about that. :lol:

sean

03-24-2012, 06:40 PM

I have come down with some sort of sickness, but I can still get things done inside. Today, I finished cleaning and conditioning one of the seats. Just for the sake of comparison, here's a photo.

Obviously, the cleaned and conditioned one is on the left.
.

Edit: I see that it's time to clean my camera lens! Sorry about that. :lol:

Looks good! Get well, the pollen has been kicking my ass lately, all kinds of congested for the last week or so.

jawn101

03-24-2012, 11:42 PM

Farrar

03-25-2012, 01:00 PM

Looks good! Get well, the pollen has been kicking my ass lately, all kinds of congested for the last week or so.

Thanks! I think it is partly lack of sleep. I got home from last night's gig at about 1:15am and had an omelette for supper (thank heaven for the 24-hour diner in my neighborhood), then slept for 10.5 hours. Feeling better already. :)

Which did you use? The Mothers, or Skidmores, or something else? They look really nice so I will use whatever you did. :)

I have always used Mothers. I am a bit anal-retentive about cleaning -- in my opinion it's not clean until the rag comes away with nothing on it. Therefore, I had to use the Mothers leather cleaner a few times in certain areas -- I think the previous owner had problems getting to the sides of the seats, for example. I cleaned the seat, then had lunch, and then did conditioning runs waiting five minutes between applications. So this took a few hours. It's definitely not a "touch-up" product that you would just take to the car show and use at the last minute, but I can say I have had good results with their products so far.

Edit: Now that I think of it, the leather might have been so difficult to clean due to salt water. I really need to fix my air conditioning. :lol:

Farrar

03-25-2012, 08:15 PM

Got nothing done today, but got these together for y'all to look at. It's what I plan to do with my console and kneepads after I am all done.

Here's what we all know and love:

9257

And here is how I want mine to be.

9256

Not much of a visual change, but lots to be done literally "behind the scenes."

jawn101

03-25-2012, 09:58 PM

Farrar

03-25-2012, 10:08 PM

What are the up/down arrows? The window switches?

Yeah. Sorry about that; they're not very clear, are they? I am not very good at drawing, even with a computer to help me. :lol:

jawn101

03-25-2012, 10:10 PM

Yeah. Sorry about that; they're not very clear, are they? I am not very good at drawing, even with a computer to help me. :lol:

Well I figured it was either that or the controls for the hover conversion :)

Farrar

03-25-2012, 10:16 PM

Well I figured it was either that or the controls for the hover conversion :)

Sure, all I need is four 1000HP engines for my quad-rotor conversion. :hysterical:

Farrar

03-26-2012, 03:37 PM

OK, just for fun... possible new kneepad-mounted HVAC vents...

9281

or

9280

The above are 2.5" vents.

9282

The above is 2.25" and although it's smaller and has that weird three-vane design I think it looks better... black instead of chrome.

What do y'all think?

sean

03-26-2012, 03:44 PM

I only like the last one because it is black in color. All three are kinda "meh" but I think whatever you go with it should not be shiny or chrome. Just my opinion of course.

dmc6960

03-26-2012, 03:54 PM

Just remember you have a car where the only circles are the wheels, steering wheel, and HVAC knobs. I personally think the round vents look out of place in the car, even when used in DMCH's 2004 prototype interior. That said, I've also visualized square and rectangular vents in the kneepads and they also look mildly out of place. Even when using identical vents to the center console or door vents (to be DMC-Correct). Having not found a way to satisfactorily (at least, to me) add/replace the existing vents I've chosen to maximize their effectiveness with tint, sealing (door vents), and making cooled seats.

Farrar

03-26-2012, 07:34 PM

I only like the last one because it is black in color. All three are kinda "meh" but I think whatever you go with it should not be shiny or chrome. Just my opinion of course.

Yeah, I am not installing anything else shiny/chrome so I prefer the black. Unfortunately, it doesn't look really nice in my opinion: I really like the straight-across look instead of the Mercedes-Benz look for the vanes.

Just remember you have a car where the only circles are the wheels, steering wheel, and HVAC knobs.

And headlight switch and hazard switch.

I personally think the round vents look out of place in the car, even when used in DMCH's 2004 prototype interior. That said, I've also visualized square and rectangular vents in the kneepads and they also look mildly out of place.

Agreed. I toyed with the idea of vertically-oriented rectangular ones a la Proto-1, but that ducting would be a nightmare to fabricate. It may sound strange, but the interior doesn't really look good with any particular vents. Even the stock ones to me look like an off-the-shelf, make-it-fit solution (although I know they were typical for the time). Of course, since I will not be altering the original kneepads but rather making my own, I can always go back to stock, or make something else, later if I like.

If y'all see anything better -- black, round, in about the same size -- please let me know. I like options. :)

Thanks!

Farrar

03-27-2012, 11:42 AM

stevedmc

03-27-2012, 11:57 AM

I found another option. I am not too hot on it, but it should get the job done without being unnecessarily ugly. And since it's a standard size I can replace it with something better when available.

93099308

2.5" wide and $15 each. For $60 + S&H I think I can live with it for the time being. And my girlfriend will like it since it can be completely closed easily, forcing all of the cold air to go to me. :lol:

I so much need to do this. The vents behind the console could easily be blocked off and the side vents could be tapped into. I so much hate having to line up the center console vents when taking console in/out of the car.

Edit: I forgot to mention but I think you are looking in the wrong place for vents. You could easily get some modern vents at your local salvage yard or ebay.

Farrar

03-27-2012, 12:08 PM

I so much need to do this. The vents behind the console could easily be blocked off and the side vents could be tapped into.

Either that or create a ducting arrangement which will redirect the console-vent air which to the innermost vents in the kneepads and redirect the door-vent air to the outermost vents in the kneepads. If I can teach myself fiberglass fabrication, or bend plastic appropriately using a heat gun, I intend to go this route.

Farrar

03-29-2012, 10:06 PM

Tillsy

03-29-2012, 11:11 PM

OK, so I am sorry I haven't been able to keep anyone updated on my progress here, but this week is fundraising week where I work, plus I had a math test and a paper due. Next week is Spring Break and my girlfriend will be out of town for six days, so let's hope that I can get some work done!
I might take this quiet opportunity then to voice up and let you know I am one of the lurkers that have been following every post in your thread for more than half a year now and enjoy sharing your journey - cheers :)

Farrar

03-31-2012, 03:09 PM

Thanks, Chris! Is it cool weather down there yet? I was sweating buckets today after just a few minutes inside the car and wishing that I had a/c in it.

One step at a time, though, right? Here's a quick video to show where I am at the moment.

http://youtu.be/t24Owr9cCV4

stevedmc

03-31-2012, 05:27 PM

Farrar

03-31-2012, 07:19 PM

Oh my. Now I want to take my car apart.

You will end up scratching your head a lot.

The plastic piece above the battery that the electrical bracket is attached to seems to be simply glued on each side. It's very flexible. As for how the bracket is fastened to the plastic, I have no clue. There are no holes for screws under there, and besides if you used a screw to hold the bracket on, the screw would poke down into the battery compartment.

My friend Lewis and I made an appropriate wood panel in a matter of minutes with his saber saw. I am currently cutting the necessary bevels around the wood piece with my Dremel tool's router bit, and about to glue on the top piece, then drill holes in it. I might paint it black before putting it in, but I'm not sure I will considering the amount of time that would add to the project.

Bitsyncmaster

03-31-2012, 07:42 PM

You will end up scratching your head a lot.

The plastic piece above the battery that the electrical bracket is attached to seems to be simply glued on each side. It's very flexible. As for how the bracket is fastened to the plastic, I have no clue. There are no holes for screws under there, and besides if you used a screw to hold the bracket on, the screw would poke down into the battery compartment.

My friend Lewis and I made an appropriate wood panel in a matter of minutes with his saber saw. I am currently cutting the necessary bevels around the wood piece with my Dremel tool's router bit, and about to glue on the top piece, then drill holes in it. I might paint it black before putting it in, but I'm not sure I will considering the amount of time that would add to the project.

The relay bracket has one screw in the back and I think should have one or two on the right side. My right side screw had to be ground off so I installed one new screw more in the middle of the bracket down into the battery compartment with a nut inside the battery compartment.

Farrar

03-31-2012, 09:10 PM

The relay bracket has one screw in the back and I think should have one or two on the right side. My right side screw had to be ground off so I installed one new screw more in the middle of the bracket down into the battery compartment with a nut inside the battery compartment.

Dave, I am glad to see someone has done this, because I was thinking of the same thing... good to know that you can get a nut and the end of a screw in there without interfering with battery placement.

In other news, I beveled the edges of the wood panel where necessary using my Dremel tool's router bit at the lowest speed. With that done, I applied Liquid Nails to adhere the small piece to the top rear of the panel -- I was tempted to just use wood screws, but since I had it I figured I might as well use it. I may put screws in just for peace of mind, though.

With the wood pieces set aside for the adhesive to dry, I am getting other work done: currently I am making templates for my custom console build. Here is where I am so far as I take a break for dinner.

9367

I used ordinary posterboard for the templates for a couple of reasons: first, it is cheap and plentiful; second, I can cut it with ordinary scissors; third, I can fold it and rip it to shape while it is in the car; fourth, I can tape sheets of it together to make adjustments without the result being too thick to move around in the car. Of course, it was so humid outside today that it started wilting almost immediately after I took it out of the apartment, but that is not a problem so much as a surprise.

I realized that the plastic I bought from McMaster in late 2010 (when I first thought about doing the console and nothing else more important had cropped up) is too small. For the long side pieces, I need about five feet by two feet of a flexible plastic material which is easy to cut, like ABS or nylon. Is there a source someone here could recommend?

OK, never mind that question. I found TAP Plastics online. They will sell "cut to order" plastic sheets.

Nylon would be ideal, but they don't have it. My choices are PVC or ABS.

PVC at a minimum thickness of 1/8" would not have the flexibility I need, plus it would be too thick when the foam and vinyl are applied.

ABS they sell at a minimum thickness of 1/32" but I think that would be pushing it in terms of flexibility. I think 1/16" would do nicely, but they don't have that, either. My choices are 1/32", 3/32", 1/8", or incrementally greater. I will go with 3/32", I think. That should be about the thickness of the original cardboard, and also thick enough to hold the hardware I need to install into it (L-brackets, thread inserts, etc.).

Farrar

04-07-2012, 03:05 PM

To quote James T. Kirk, "Well, that's... just... lovely."

I finally got back to the replacement panel, and when I was drilling one of the holes, the drill bound up inside the plywood.

9600

... and it tore off the piece I had adhered to the back.

9601

So that project is now ruined. I no longer have access to my friend's shop or equipment, because he's going to be too busy to help me over the next few weeks. So it looks like I will put the original damaged wood panel back inside the car. The confidence I had in myself which made me think that I could make a new console vanished instantly as soon as that back piece was ripped off. Nonetheless, I will go ahead and buy the plastic; as with all of my projects, the original pieces and parts will be kept on hand so that in the event of failure the stock parts can be put back on.

Since Liquid Nails was unable to adhere two pieces of plywood together under the stress of a 3/8" drill bit, I doubt the same product would be strong enough to adhere a piece of wood to a fiberglass body shell under the stress of heat, humidity, and vibration. What adhesive would y'all suggest?

DMCMW Dave

04-07-2012, 04:16 PM

Since Liquid Nails was unable to adhere two pieces of plywood together under the stress of a 3/8" drill bit, I doubt the same product would be strong enough to adhere a piece of wood to a fiberglass body shell under the stress of heat, humidity, and vibration. What adhesive would y'all suggest?

That is surprising since they use it to hold houses together. Are you sure the plywood was clean?

Windshield urethane is my default nevergonnacomeapart adhesive of choice, although I have not tried it on wood. Actually the most common wood glue is plain old (Elmer's) wood glue!

Farrar

04-07-2012, 04:41 PM

Are you sure the plywood was clean?

Not really. I have never worked with plywood before, so I just followed intuition. I sanded it until it wasn't rough and blew it off with canned air, and made sure nothing came off on my hand when I touched it, but that's no guarantee.

Perhaps I did not clamp the pieces together tightly enough. Either that or "project grade" Liquid Nails is not as good as the regular stuff. I just bought that variety because it was in a smaller tube and I did not want to be wasteful.

I have made some progress.

Vacuum hoses replaced with silicone:

9613
9615
9614

As you can see, I also replaced the hard plastic vacuum tube with a silicone hose. From the tank in the left pontoon to the smaller hose at the HVAC control, it is now one continuous piece of silicone hose.

dmc6960

04-07-2012, 10:13 PM

The best construction adhesive you can buy is "PL Premium". You can find it at Menards in the caulking section. Lots of different grades of PL, but Premium is the best. It's Urethane based similar to the windshield adheasive Dave mentioned. As long as the surfaces are clean, it will never come loose.

Farrar

04-07-2012, 10:31 PM

I've never heard of Menards but I will look for that product. Thanks! :)

qwerk

04-07-2012, 10:53 PM

I've never heard of Menards but I will look for that product. Thanks! :)

It's a pretty big hardware store chain here in the Midwest. Worked there from 5am - 9am, M - F the summer before my freshman year of college. Not a bad gig.

Farrar

04-12-2012, 10:47 PM

OK, I really need to change out that oil seal and put somewhat of an interior back in the car... A few days ago when the work crew started putting the siding on the next building, I asked if they needed me to move my car. "No, it's not in the way," they said. They put caution tape around it, but today one of my neighbors saw a guy working on the third floor balcony lose his hard hat, and it fell inches from my front bumper! Needless to say, I moved the car when I got home from work today ... but by pushing it instead of driving it. :( Electrically almost nothing is connected inside, and I was afraid that if I re-connected the battery and turned the key, I'd start blowing fuses.

*sigh* I wish I had more time and money to work on my D... but then again, who doesn't?

Personal note: this morning I heard on the radio that it was the birthday of a writer who decided to move to Oregon and take up mountain climbing, then got a job as a salmon farmer to support his climbing habit. It's backwards from the way most people are taught to think about their jobs, but in a strange way, it makes sense: he knew he'd have a boring job, but always enough money to do what he really loved, even though there was no profit in it. I thought that was an interesting way of looking at things. Anyway, nighty night.

My DeLorean budget is now severely limited by the unexpected $650 I just spent on my daily driver. I probably will not finish my current to-do list before Orlando. *sigh*

Farrar

04-18-2012, 07:27 PM

The AFR gauge I bought (before my PT blew my budget, of course) arrived today. I will install it when I get the chance. It has a ten-year warranty -- I'm impressed.

At this point I am not sure I want to go ahead with a complete re-vamp of the car's interior. I may simply do the console and leave it at that -- concentrating instead on getting the engine vacuum-leak-free and the transmission gear-oil-leak-free first, then get the air conditioning going. *sigh* I will never finish this car...

jawn101

04-18-2012, 07:32 PM

I will never finish this car...

Finishing's no fun :) It's a journey, not a destination.

Even if you don't agree, keep telling yourself that :)

stevedmc

04-18-2012, 07:44 PM

Sweet. Does the AFR gauge just hook up to an oxygen sensor?

For what it's worth, I checked my plugs using Bill's dual plane manifold and size 48 jets. My plugs are perfect.

9767

Farrar

04-18-2012, 11:45 PM

Sweet. Does the AFR gauge just hook up to an oxygen sensor?

Correct, but only a narrowband one like the DMC-12 originally came with. The fancy wideband sensors like the EFI folks have are too awesome for this unit.

It has a digital readout which will indicate levels from 8.82 to 19.1, and next to it an LED which will indicate yellow (lean), green (stoich), or red (rich).

Farrar

Bitsyncmaster

04-19-2012, 05:41 AM

Correct, but only a narrowband one like the DMC-12 originally came with. The fancy wideband sensors like the EFI folks have are too awesome for this unit.

It has a digital readout which will indicate levels from 8.82 to 19.1, and next to it an LED which will indicate yellow (lean), green (stoich), or red (rich).

Farrar

I would only trust that indicated value around 14.7. That is all a narrow band sensor can do. That is why they had to develop the wide band sensors.

Farrar

04-19-2012, 09:52 AM

I would only trust that indicated value around 14.7. That is all a narrow band sensor can do. That is why they had to develop the wide band sensors.

I wondered about that... the gauge can only be as accurate as the information it's given.

In other news, it looks like my interior redesign is going to be placed on hold. My car is being treated like a piece of furniture by the construction crew working on my apartment building, so I need to get it moving again. If I have driven it to work, they can't eat their lunch on it. (I am threatening to sue the company if any damage arises from this mistreatment, and will report them to the BBB as soon as I have their name, phone number, and address.)

Once again, the DeLorean suffers from its movie star status and becomes, in the minds of plebes, "public property." What. The. Fuck. People.

dvonk

04-19-2012, 11:10 AM

jesus, the nerve of some people...

Farrar

04-19-2012, 11:18 AM

jesus, the nerve of some people...

They must be cheap. Anyone know how to say "Get the fuck off of my car, you bastards" in Spanish?

jawn101

04-19-2012, 12:24 PM

They must be cheap. Anyone know how to say "Get the fuck off of my car, you bastards" in Spanish?

uhh... I know 'carro' and 'bastardo'

8 years of Spanish classes... sigh :)

David_NYS

04-19-2012, 05:11 PM

My car is being treated like a piece of furniture by the construction crew working on my apartment building, so I need to get it moving again. If I have driven it to work, they can't eat their lunch on it. (I am threatening to sue the company if any damage arises from this mistreatment, and will report them to the BBB as soon as I have their name, phone number, and address.)

Once again, the DeLorean suffers from its movie star status and becomes, in the minds of plebes, "public property." What. The. Fuck. People.

I think would lose my mind if that happened to my car! I might actually have to call the police... to keep them safe from me! the nerve of some people! :hatchet:

My insurance comany required me to submit a signed statment saying I would agree to always keep it in a garage a night. I would be nervous not to. I kept it out in the day last week to treat the leather in the sun, and when I came back, I could swear there were fingerprints that were not there before I left. I'm afraid that if I left it out over night, some drunk guy or girl would want to sit on the hood, or something...

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to coming down and meeting you guys (Gulf Coast Deloreans) for a tech day, I'm just waiting on some parts for my fuel system. :grouphugg:

stevedmc

04-19-2012, 05:57 PM

they can't eat their lunch on it. Are they eating sandwiches or buckets of chicken?

Farrar

04-19-2012, 07:17 PM

I think would lose my mind if that happened to my car! I might actually have to call the police... to keep them safe from me!

Apparently their supervisor gave them hell for it. I am guessing someone looked at it and saw the interior all messed up with wires everywhere and thought it was an abandoned vehicle (despite the current license plate).

Before I left work, I thought about a plan to bring out my Claymore if I saw them lounging around it again.

Best plan is just to get it running again. I will put the interior back in it. I will forget cutting a new wood panel for behind the passenger seat -- the stock one, damaged though it may be, is going back in for now. After that, I will do the electrical stuff (RKE and interior lights), and work on that output shaft seal.

By the way, Steve -- what did you need for the transmission final drive drain/fill plugs? I will have to buy one. Since it seems I am doing this job every year or two, it will be worth the investment. It's a square bit, right? What size?

stevedmc

04-19-2012, 07:23 PM

How about I come by Saturday morning to offer my services? I was going to help Jim with his AC but he hasn't called me back yet.

I've got no clue what tools are needed but I know they are in my car.

We can even do brake pads if you want.

Btw, if memory serves correctly we will just need a small socket for the plugs, a punch, a seal puller, and a big socket for tapping the new seal in. All of that stuff is already in my car.

Ron

04-19-2012, 07:45 PM

They must be cheap. Anyone know how to say "Get the fuck off of my car, you bastards" in Spanish?
I think a Pump Shotgun (http://www.sounddogs.com/sound-effects/25/mp3/235200_SOUNDDOGS__gu.mp3) is universal language.

Farrar

04-19-2012, 09:15 PM

How about I come by Saturday morning to offer my services? I was going to help Jim with his AC but he hasn't called me back yet.

I've got no clue what tools are needed but I know they are in my car.

We can even do brake pads if you want.

OK, thanks! I will go to O'Reilly tomorrow, and I will get the pads, gear oil -- and brake fluid: in order to avoid pushing crap up into the system, I am told to open the bleeder when you compress the piston back up before putting the new pads in, and top off with fresh brake fluid.

Also, O'Reilly has one more oil seal in case I manage to frig this one up. By the way, you can add National Part Number 1962 to yout crossover parts list -- it's not rubber, it's the exact same metal/spring/rubber as OEM which lasted almost 30 years.

I need to go to Harbor Freight to get a trickle charger. I will ask for a seal puller, too. Anything else?

stevedmc

04-19-2012, 10:02 PM

OK, thanks! I will go to O'Reilly tomorrow, and I will get the pads, gear oil -- and brake fluid: in order to avoid pushing crap up into the system, I am told to open the bleeder when you compress the piston back up before putting the new pads in, and top off with fresh brake fluid.

Also, O'Reilly has one more oil seal in case I manage to frig this one up. By the way, you can add National Part Number 1962 to yout crossover parts list -- it's not rubber, it's the exact same metal/spring/rubber as OEM which lasted almost 30 years.

I need to go to Harbor Freight to get a trickle charger. I will ask for a seal puller, too. Anything else?

Nah, we should be good for Saturday but you're doing most of the work. I don't want to get too dirty since I've got a BBQ to go to that night.

Btw, James has some cheap black carpet (new) for $400 if you are interested in it.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3695-New-DMCH-carpet-set-BLACK&p=52063#post52063

jawn101

04-19-2012, 10:54 PM

Go for the carpet, man. It's a great deal. I bet black would look really sharp in there too.

dvonk

04-20-2012, 12:32 AM

Anyone know how to say "Get the fuck off of my car, you bastards" in Spanish?

i should, since i live in "Little Mexico" (i.e., South O (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans_in_Omaha,_Nebraska))... we're a minority in our neighborhood.

from Wikipedia:
The largest concentration of Mexicans and Mexican Americans in Omaha lived near the packing houses and Union Stockyards of South Omaha.

Today the majority of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans live in South Omaha, also called the Southhood or South O. A strong Mexican-American presence thrives there, with numerous public murals and exhibitions of Mexican culture throughout the community. Along with a variety of businesses, churches and community organizations, the area features El Museo Latino. [...] In 1998, the community was estimated to have 20,000 Latino families.

im sure everyone cares. :lol:

Dangermouse

04-20-2012, 09:00 AM

They must be cheap. Anyone know how to say "Get the fuck off of my car, you bastards" in Spanish?

You need a hat.

A Magic Hat

A Magic Green Hat

Just leave it sitting on your passenger seat. Problem solved.

http://artoftrolling.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/yahoo-answers-troll-get-it-a-little-dirty-for-extra-legitimacy.jpg

Farrar

04-20-2012, 10:21 AM

Forget Border Patrol. I need a hat with "INS" on it.

None of the local parts houses have front or rear brake pads in stock. Sadness.

Edit: holy crap, you can actually buy (http://www.4armedforces.com/product/2097_JW_BORDER/Border-Patrol-Ball-Cap.html) those hats!

stevedmc

04-20-2012, 11:08 AM

None of the local parts houses have front or rear brake pads in stock. Sadness.

I almost forgot what the old guy at Autozone told me a year ago when I asked for brake pads for a 77 Mercuri Capri. He basically told me he didn't have any in stock and that I should get rid of the old Capri since its getting harder to get parts for cars that old. I just kept my mouth shut and left.

OK, thanks! I will go to O'Reilly tomorrow, and I will get the pads, gear oil -- and brake fluid:

Don't forget you will need DOT4 brake fluid.

Farrar

04-20-2012, 12:05 PM

Success! O'Reilly is overnighting my brake pads (front: 1974 Mercury Capri, rear: 1993 Jaguar XJS Base) from their hub to my local store, and I will pick them up first thing tomorrow morning, along with a good amount of DOT 4.

stevedmc

04-20-2012, 12:06 PM

Farrar

04-20-2012, 12:17 PM

Btw, don't sue me if something goes wrong. Remember I don't have a brain.

I will be doing all of the work, remember? You can just sip Cheerwine and supervise.

Well, "Brake Pad and Final Drive Oil Seal Day" has been postponed thanks to an incredible amount of rain which has just been dumped on the region in just the past 45 minutes. (And it's still raining.) Nonetheless, I went out and bought front and rear brake pads, brake fluid, gear oil, seal puller, drain plug socket set, and battery trickle charger.

At this point I have all of the tools necessary to change that transmission oil seal myself -- except for the seal installation tool, which I can rent from the auto parts store. Prior to today I was planning on using Steve's seal puller and drain plug socket, but those tools weren't that expensive.

DMC5180

04-21-2012, 12:03 PM

Farrar ,

Did those pads come with anti-squeal shims? I just put on a fresh set of Ceramic pads (so called low dust) I bought from Hervey 4 years ago. After about a day of driving (break-in) they squeal like pig now. The pads appeared to have an anti-squeal backing bonded on them. I guess I'm going to have try and resurface the disc and put anti-squeal compound on them. Since I already had the car up on jack stands for New tires, it took all of 3 minutes per corner. Be sure to push the pistons back with the old pads in place then remove them. I found that a 90° nail puller works well for this. I used a screwdriver styled pry-bar facing inboard on the inside pad and the short end of the 90° nail bar on the outer pad. All I did was catch the pad backplate (with pins in place) then leveraged the bars against each other creating an outward (push back) movement. Once there was enough space between the disc and pad I slid the nail bar between them leveraged them the rest of the way back. Eventually, I am going to do a caliper rebuild, but I'm not ready for that yet. Btw. It is recommended that when you push the pistons back, you open the bleeder and drain the Old fluid out rather than push back up the system then Do fresh fluid bleed.

stevedmc

04-21-2012, 12:19 PM

A c clamp works good too for pushing the pistons back in. I have two in my tool bag.

Farrar

04-21-2012, 01:05 PM

Did those pads come with anti-squeal shims?

No. I have been recommended to use something called BG Stop Squeal. They say you put it on and it takes about fifteen minutes to dry, or more if it's cooler or humid, so you apply it to the pads and let it dry while you get the wheels and old pads out.

It is recommended that when you push the pistons back, you open the bleeder and drain the Old fluid out rather than push back up the system then Do fresh fluid bleed.

This is why I bought a big bottle of DOT 4.

A c clamp works good too for pushing the pistons back in. I have two in my tool bag.

Yep. You use the C-clamp and old brake pad to compress the piston (or pistons if there's more than one per caliper) and open the bleeder screw.

I have been preparing for this job by watching YouTube. ;)

DMC5180

04-21-2012, 03:20 PM

You have too remove the caliper for the C-clamp method. I pushed mine back without removing the caliper. Which is why I was able to do it so quickly. Interesting note: Although all pistons moved easily. The RF Caliper pads had worn down to .080 (outer) & .200 . (Inner) The L/F pads were equal at .200 remaining. The rear pads were fairly equal at about .300 remaining.

Farrar

04-21-2012, 03:23 PM

You have too remove the caliper for the C-clamp method. I pushed mine back without removing the caliper.

What did you use -- channel-lock pliers?

All right, the weather dried up and I am now concentrating on getting the interior wired up so that I can start and drive the thing when I have replaced the oil seal. The battery read 12.35v before I put it on the trickle-charger; I will leave it on the charger for a few hours, and have it ready to put back in the car when I am ready to try to start it.

New question: how in the HELL do you replace that body bolt in the right rear pontoon? Do you have to take the back of the car off?

jawn101

04-21-2012, 06:35 PM

New question: how in the HELL do you replace that body bolt in the right rear pontoon? Do you have to take the back of the car off?

Not easy or an answer you wanna hear, but yeah - I think the only way to do it is to remove the rear fascia. The only access into that pontoon is via the large hole at the bottom of the rear section. I can't remember if the muffler will have to drop too but definitely the fascia does.

Farrar

04-21-2012, 08:25 PM

Not easy or an answer you wanna hear, but yeah - I think the only way to do it is to remove the rear fascia.

:mad2:

Oh, well. Thanks. The fascia will have to come off for paint eventually. I guess I will replace the bolt then. *sigh*

In other news, the glovebox in my car completely fell apart when I was removing it today. :angry0:

jawn101

04-21-2012, 08:52 PM

:mad2:

Oh, well. Thanks. The fascia will have to come off for paint eventually. I guess I will replace the bolt then. *sigh*

In other news, the glovebox in my car completely fell apart when I was removing it today. :angry0:

Bummer. What fell apart? The actual box itself?

Farrar

04-21-2012, 10:13 PM

Bummer. What fell apart? The actual box itself?

Yes, as I was lifting it out the edges cracked and fell off. Lesson learned: push the glove box up from underneath when removing.

But at least I did make some progress: firmed up the connections on the blower motor resistor, replaced the blower motor switch, double-checked all the connections behind the radio bracket and replaced it. Tomorrow, I may put the console back on, weather and time permitting.

DMC5180

04-21-2012, 10:54 PM

I figured I'd try anti-squeal compound on the pads before give in to having them turned. I took some photos of Tools I used for brake pad push back & replacement.

9828

Pry bar, Fur tree tool , nail puller

9829

9830

leverage the pry-bar and nail puller against each other forcing the pads away from disc.

9831

Finish the push back by slipping the fur tree tool between disc and pad and pry pads all the back.

9832

9833

Dangermouse

04-21-2012, 11:16 PM

I had never thought of doing that before taking the old pads off to push the piston back!

I guess you just have to be careful of the rotors.

Farrar

04-21-2012, 11:51 PM

Thanks for the photos, Dennis! I don't have all of those tools, but I get the gist. Clever!

In other news, there seems to be no way of stopping water from entering my battery compartment, even when the car is sitting. I have no doubt that this is how the passenger-side carpet ended up soaking wet, and the seat hardware rusted, with all the water coming from behind.

Since I don't use the trailing arm shields, I have the urge to simply get some good gaffer's tape and tape over all of the holes in the battery compartment. I may figure out a tie-down strap while I am at it, or I may not, depending on my feelings about starting yet ANOTHER project.

Supposed to be good weather tomorrow. Here's hoping...

DMC5180

04-22-2012, 12:13 AM

I just checked the thickness of my rotors to see if they were turnable. They are at the minimum (11.7) mm now. So, I'm going to install new rotors instead. I had a set on hand that I bought a few years back in anticipation of needing them eventually.

dmc6960

04-22-2012, 01:43 AM

I'll betchya $1000 that your water problem is actually related to an impossible-to-seal leak near the windshield drain. It's related to some plastic infill panels glued to the body tub at the HVAC box. The water then soaks through the carpet then into the battery compartment. You don't want to completely seal off the battery compartment as the battery can outgass hydrogen and some other nasty gasses.

I had this particular leak on my car for two years before I could seal it. HOWEVER... Since you will soon be removing your whole HVAC box for your evaporator replacement, this will provide you with just the possibility of a good fix. Hose down your windshield once it's removed and you'll see where it's coming in.

Farrar

04-22-2012, 10:41 AM

I'll betchya $1000 that your water problem is actually related to an impossible-to-seal leak near the windshield drain.

I think you misread what I typed earlier -- the water is coming in BEHIND the seat. It first shows up underneath the battery.

Anyway, I am glad I am not the only one who buys parts because I will need them later... I've got a box of parts somewhere including an evaporator ready to install...

It just occurred to me that I actually do NOT have all of the tools required to change out that seal on the transmission -- I will need something to punch out that little roll pin. Suggestions? Also, can I re-use the roll pin or is it a part which needs to be replaced with a fresh one?

Ron

04-22-2012, 12:14 PM

I think you misread what I typed earlier -- the water is coming in BEHIND the seat. It first shows up underneath the battery.
Maybe the area around the bulkhead connector compartment, backlight, crack in pontoon???
Water will follow the outer door seal then sneak inside the wall and collect under the battery if it is too far inboard or the adhesive is bad....check the two spots below in particular:
9835

Farrar

04-22-2012, 12:58 PM

Maybe the area around the bulkhead connector compartment, backlight, crack in pontoon???
Water will follow the outer door seal then sneak inside the wall and collect under the battery if it is too far inboard or the adhesive is bad....check the two spots below in particular:
9835

I have never seen water in those areas.

For now I will consider this a process of elimination. I have sealed up those holes with aluminum duct tape and will check the area regularly.

Farrar

04-23-2012, 10:32 AM

I'd post this to the "What have you done to your DeLorean today?" thread, but I lost track of it. I would've updated this last night, but the Internet was out for some reason.

Yesterday's work:

- removed right-hand driver-side kneepad
- removed glove box (what's left of it)
- replaced blower motor switch
- re-installed radio/HVAC bracket
- re-installed console
- re-installed wood panel behind passenger seat, and connecting piece between two panels
- re-installed wood panels on rear parcel shelf
- re-installed rear interior wall
- re-installed carpet on parcel shelf
- re-installed battery
- fired up the engine and let it idle, made sure radiator fans come on and off like they should
- took video of the engine running to prove alternator linkage does not interfere with fan blades
- washed all stainless panels and glass
- re-installed dash mat
- moved the car to a parking space right next to my apartment's living-room window
- put a cover on the car for the first time since I bought it in 2007

The battery was fresh, so the first time I turned the key, it fired right up after the fuel bowl filled. However, after I had cleaned the stainless and glass and was ready to drive it, the starter would not engage via the key, even though I made doubly sure I was in Park (I also tried Neutral), so I had to leave the key on and start the engine from the engine compartment. This is a problem I have had off and on for at least a year, and I do not know what causes it. Also, the engine did not idle too badly the first time I had the engine running yesterday, but when I was moving it to the other parking spot, it sounded pathetic. When I touched the gas pedal to move into the space faster, VROOM the engine went way up and ran smoother than idle, which is odd. This behavior would seem to indicate that the idle mixture is too rich causing the engine to stumble, but the fact that it idles high (above 900 RPM) without any pressure on the throttle plates would seem to indicate a vacuum leak, which would result in a lean mixture. Also, I noticed what seemed to be a lack of grip when I turned the steering wheel. I am guessing there was sand under the wheels, but I will raise the front end and have a look at it anyway just to be sure, before I put the car back on the road.

Note: I still have not changed out the output flange oil seal, but I wanted to move the car anyway, which is why I put everything back together.

DMC5180

04-23-2012, 01:48 PM

Confirm your Neutral/park switch and downstream harness connections. Place gear selector in either position. Pull the Start Inhibit relay (Next to RED Resistor cube) then (Continuity test) Terminal (30) (center rear) to ground. If you have continuity, try swapping in different relay and see what happens. If No continuity, check Red bulkhead connection. Back probe W/Y wire coming from the Red Bulkhead connector and a Black (Ground) wire in the same plug. (On a manual trans car the W/Y simply jumpers to ground). If you get an OPEN it's either the switch or an adjustment. If you get continuity, then place the Ground side probe to the Engine, This will confirm the ground to frame. Other remote possibilities ( flakey ignition switch) or connections to the inhibit relay socket.

Farrar

04-24-2012, 09:55 AM

Confirm your Neutral/park switch and downstream harness connections...

Wow, nice troubleshooting procedure, Dennis! Thanks! I will get to that this weekend if I can. :)

In other news, I've often heard that the back plate for the Sanden SD508 (and SD5H14 for R-134) compressors was unavailable. Well, I found something a while ago which looks awfully familiar... correct me if I'm wrong, somebody, but isn't this (http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/air-conditioning/sanden-sd-508-vertrical-gm-pad-back-16.php) it?

dmc6960

04-24-2012, 10:25 AM

correct me if I'm wrong, somebody, but isn't this (http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/air-conditioning/sanden-sd-508-vertrical-gm-pad-back-16.php) it?

Certainly looks like it!

Ron

04-24-2012, 10:33 AM

Also, the engine did not idle too badly the first time I had the engine running yesterday, but when I was moving it to the other parking spot, it sounded pathetic. When I touched the gas pedal to move into the space faster, VROOM the engine went way up and ran smoother than idle, which is odd.Sounds like the choke is set wrong to me... Are you setting it with the throttle held ~half open and the engine DEAD cold (as in has sat ALL night)?

Farrar

04-24-2012, 01:49 PM

Sounds like the choke is set wrong to me... Are you setting it with the throttle held ~half open and the engine DEAD cold (as in has sat ALL night)?

I haven't done that in a while, but yes, that is how I set it.

Although the engine idles like crap when started cold, it idles even worse when started hot.

AdmiralSenn

04-24-2012, 03:10 PM

Wow, nice troubleshooting procedure, Dennis! Thanks! I will get to that this weekend if I can. :)

In other news, I've often heard that the back plate for the Sanden SD508 (and SD5H14 for R-134) compressors was unavailable. Well, I found something a while ago which looks awfully familiar... correct me if I'm wrong, somebody, but isn't this (http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/air-conditioning/sanden-sd-508-vertrical-gm-pad-back-16.php) it?

It says it's a 5-bolt Q head, so unless it's listed wrong, yes, that is our compressor head. Nice find!

Farrar

04-24-2012, 03:50 PM

It says it's a 5-bolt Q head, so unless it's listed wrong, yes, that is our compressor head. Nice find!

Thanks! I actually ran across it while looking for HVAC vents. I just happened to poke around because I saw they sold replacement parts for GM AC systems, and there it was :D

Farrar

04-27-2012, 12:22 PM

jawn101

04-27-2012, 12:50 PM

Quick question: how difficult is it to replace the sway bar bushings and brackets? My brackets are scratched from when the car was lowered (too much) and I would like to replace the parts in that area with Toby's kit. Do I have to watch out for springy suspension parts? Should I raise the car on jack-stands or ramps?

I am mentioning this because on another thread someone mentioned annoying front-end vibration at speed which was cured by installation of Toby's sway bar hardware kit. My car has pretty much always had that symptom so I was thinking of trying that solution. The rubber could stand to be replaced regardless.

Thanks in advance!

Easy. All you need is a wrench and for the car to be high enough for you to get under it. The sway bar will drop down about 4" when released from the crumple tube, so don't get wanged in the head by it. It's easy enough to move back into position by hand but I used a floor jack to help keep it in place while I put the brackets back on so I'd have both hands free. Not hard though.

Farrar

04-27-2012, 08:03 PM

Thanks, Jon!

jawn101

04-27-2012, 08:06 PM

Thanks, Jon!

No prob :) It isn't any harder to do the bushings for the sway bar in the LCAs at the same time, so if you are feeling like those need to be done this is a good time. Or if you wanna paint your sway bar (I sure as hell do!)

Farrar

04-28-2012, 03:27 PM

Today, I got back to the problem of the engine not starting with the key.

When I re-wired the relay sockets, I put everything back the way I found it. But the Start Inhibit Relay does not seem to be wired as indicated in the diagram (http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=105&d=1306264553).

Note that I never had problems starting the car with the key until about two years ago, and it was only intermittent. Now it's almost constant -- in fact, the last several times I tried to start the engine, I had to do so from the engine compartment, so I think it's valid to say that it's now a consistent problem.

I confirmed continuity to ground through the neutral safety switch. I confirmed good connections on the brown wire (terminal 30) and the yellow/white wire (one of the coil terminals, I can't remember which).

Edit: I also swapped out the relay with a known good relay to no effect.

What I cannot, at the moment, confirm, is either of the other two wires. One red/white wire has a length added onto it of plain white wire; looks like someone clipped it too short by accident and then just added a few inches to make it fit. But then instead of a second red/white wire, I have a blue wire which disappears behind the rear parcel shelf wall. What would appear to be the second red wire terminates in a wire nut underneath the relays, and it has been there ever since I bought the car in 2007.

When I put my meter between the red/white wire in the socket and ground, and turn the key, I get no reading.

When I put my meter between the orphaned red/white wire and ground, and turn the key, I get no reading.

Leaving that aside, I decided to just start the engine from the engine compartment and, with every vacuum port but PCV blocked (also excepting one port for a vacuum gauge) I fired 'er up. Still idles like shit. I saw what looked like water in the carburetor chimneys, so I revved up the engine and sprayed some carburetor cleaner down its throat, but that only helped it run smoother for a few seconds. When it settles back into idle, it misses so badly that it jostles me as I sit in the seat.

I took some video of the entire process, but it will be a while before YouTube processes it. (Just wait until you see the vacuum gauge -- worst vacuum readings I have ever seen!)

In the meantime, I guess I am going to have to cancel my DCS registration. It looks like Sparky won't be reliable any time soon.

stevedmc

04-28-2012, 04:58 PM

How about I come over after work one night this week and see what I can do? I'm curious how the car would idle if I were to put my carb and manifold on your car. Have you checked your spark plugs? We could swap ignition modules too and see what happens.

I forgot to mention but I have an ulterior motive to get your car ready for DCS. I really don't want to be alone with Bill for 3 nights. I'm not sure I would survive.

Farrar

04-28-2012, 05:17 PM

How about I come over after work one night this week and see what I can do? I'm curious how the car would idle if I were to put my carb and manifold on your car. Have you checked your spark plugs? We could swap ignition modules too and see what happens.

Your carb and manifold would be steaming hot after that 90-minute drive! I am not sure I could operate on anything that hot... usually, I let the engine sit overnight if I am to work on it.

I forgot to mention but I have an ulterior motive to get your car ready for DCS. I really don't want to be alone with Bill for 3 nights. I'm not sure I would survive.

Bill doesn't like me anymore... I might have to room with someone else anyway.

sean

04-28-2012, 06:04 PM

Your carb and manifold would be steaming hot after that 90-minute drive! I am not sure I could operate on anything that hot... usually, I let the engine sit overnight if I am to work on it..
I think that was Steve's way of hinting to spend the night ;-)

Bill doesn't like me anymore... I might have to room with someone else anyway.

Dang, we just added the fourth member to the pack or you colud have joined us.

Farrar

04-28-2012, 06:11 PM

I think that was Steve's way of hinting to spend the night ;-)

Maybe he's heard tell of my famous cooking skills!

Dang, we just added the fourth member to the pack or you colud have joined us.

Doesn't matter.

I put the cover back on the car. I was going to check and see if the new blower motor switch works... but why bother? I'm not going anywhere, and even if I were I have no a/c. If I want hot air blowing in my face, I can just roll down the windows -- assuming they haven't already broken when I wasn't using them.

stevedmc

04-28-2012, 07:34 PM

I think that was Steve's way of hinting to spend the night ;-)

Dang, we just added the fourth member to the pack or you colud have joined us.

Nah. I don't mind getting my hands burned. I've taken my hot manifold off in parking lots before and it's no big deal to me.

Farrar

04-28-2012, 10:26 PM

Nah. I don't mind getting my hands burned. I've taken my hot manifold off in parking lots before and it's no big deal to me.

That's good, because the guest bedroom is currently taken up with other stuff. No one could sleep in there!

Monday and Wednesday nights are out.

I can only put one video in each message, so here's the first one of five made this morning/afternoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAQZXrXi3W8

Here's the second video of five made this morning/afternoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wop7n6j84ec

Here's the third video of five made this morning/afternoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXKQhggqGeE

Here's the fourth video of five made this morning/afternoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDa8FG7nN2Y

Here's the fifth and final video made this morning/afternoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EzoiQVibwc

DMC5180

04-29-2012, 12:14 AM

Getting back to your no start from switch issue. Do a continuity check of the W/R wire between the ignition switch connector and the relay socket. You said, when you connected your meter to ground and either W/R wire you got nothing. One of the W/R wires in the socket goes to the starter so you shouldn't see anything on one wire. But the other W/R wire is from the Ignition switch. You should have seen 12V with the key in the start position. Also, the brown wire in the socket should be connected to the Blower fan breaker. I believe this was part of a service bulletin. http://www.dmcnews.com/bulletins/ST-05-2.82.html If your breaker has been replaced it may have ring terminals now. disconnect one side of the Breaker then check to see which wires are hot with the key ON. Make sure the jumper is connected the hot side.

Ron

04-29-2012, 03:38 AM

+1 Dennis

=======

FYI, the yellow/white (actually W/Y) wire you mentioned going to a coil terminal should go to the Neutral Switch -- The yellow/white (W/Y) on the coil terminal goes to the Ballast Resistors....

The Blue wire is probably a replacement from the ignition switch (or to the solenoid...not enough info...)
If Dennis' checks don't clear it up, see if the Blue wire has 12V with the key at "Start".
If not,pull the main coil wire and make certain it is in neutral for Safety. Then jump 12V to the each of the remaining wires you mentioned earlier to find which energizes the solenoid...try the W/R ones first.
It should be easy from there on....

Fan Speed Breaker to 30 (Brown).
Neutral Safety to 85 (W/Y).
Ignition Switch to 86 (W/R, ?Blue? )
Starter Solenoid to 87 (W/R, ?Blue?)

Bitsyncmaster

04-29-2012, 05:58 AM

DMC5180

04-29-2012, 10:45 AM

For what it's worth. I have found a relay ground wire to be bad. It read about 200 ohms from the pin to a real ground. I inspected the crimps and never found why it was bad. So I just made up a new relay ground buss for that bank of relays.

I only found it by measuring the ground pin with an ohm meter to the common ground point.

Interesting. In this case the Inhibit Relay, is an isolated ground circuit thru the neutral safety switch to ground. But I can see your point in checking resistance.

Bitsyncmaster

04-29-2012, 11:15 AM

Interesting. In this case the Inhibit Relay, is an isolated ground circuit thru the neutral safety switch to ground. But I can see your point in checking resistance.

This bad ground was on the cooling fan relay. My solid state relay still worked but that would have not worked with a mechanical relay. I never liked those double wires crimped into the terminals so my new harness has one wire crimps into a large junction. Should do the top bank that way someday.

DMC5180

04-29-2012, 12:11 PM

Daisy chaining grounds like that certainly creates lots of potential week links. I was surprised to see they had done it like that instead of a Cluster bundle found in several other locations of the harness. The (A/C panel , lambda, and Heated RW Timer) are chained together.

dvonk

04-29-2012, 05:33 PM

the liquid in the boosters in your 'Whats in the chimneys' video is gasoline... or at least it should be. :lol:

check out this episode of How It's Made:
(this is the first time ive heard this female narrator. i prefer the U.S. narrator, Brooks T. Moore.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdV7HYjQvDo

you can watch the whole spot (c. 5 mins) or jump directly to the boosters in action at 5:03 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdV7HYjQvDo&feature=player_detailpage#t=303s).

congerz83

04-29-2012, 07:30 PM

I really don't want to be alone with Bill for 3 nights. I'm not sure I would survive.

I realize I'm way late with this... but what the hell...

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q152/congerz83/Vehicles/untitled2.jpg

stevedmc

04-29-2012, 07:33 PM

I realize I'm way late with this... but what the hell...

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q152/congerz83/Vehicles/untitled2.jpg

Don't talk like that. Bill is currently mad at me and Farrar. I don't think you want to get added to the list.

congerz83

04-29-2012, 07:38 PM

Don't talk like that. Bill is currently mad at me and Farrar. I don't think you want to get added to the list.

I may've been on that list before the both of you... :lol:

Farrar

04-30-2012, 10:00 AM

the liquid in the boosters in your 'Whats in the chimneys' video is gasoline... or at least it should be.

The reason I was suspicious is because it didn't look quite like gasoline. Maybe it's because I was wearing my sunglasses, but the color didn't look right. Also, gasoline and water are slightly different when it comes to viscosity, and the way it was dripping made me think of water. Of course, since the engine was rocking that may have created the illusion that the droplets were different.

"Boosters"? Ha! This is a DeLorean!

On the off chance that a backwards PCV valve was causing the miss, I turned it around to match Steve's and made sure it rattles. No effect. One evening later this week (probably Thursday) he may stop by so we can swap carburetors and/or intake manifolds and see if that fixes the idle problem. Maybe I just did a shitty job of rebuilding the carburetor. It wouldn't be the first time I screwed something up on the first attempt.

stevedmc

04-30-2012, 02:33 PM

One evening later this week (probably Thursday) he may stop by so we can swap carburetors and/or intake manifolds and see if that fixes the idle problem. Maybe I just did a shitty job of rebuilding the carburetor. It wouldn't be the first time I screwed something up on the first attempt.

I thought we were talking about Tuesday?

On another note, let it be known that Bill ain't mad at me. We're still going to be roomies. Hopefully Farrar will join us if we can get his car road worthy and his AC working by then.

If Farrar doesn't go, then I will only have Bill to blame for the shaving cream in my shoes.

sean

04-30-2012, 02:34 PM

If Farrar doesn't go, then I will only have Bill to blame for the shaving cream in my shoes.

At least you hope it's shaving cream he puts in our shoe.

stevedmc

04-30-2012, 02:35 PM

At least you hope it's shaving cream he puts in our shoe.

You better hope we aren't in the room next to you. :deviltail:

sean

04-30-2012, 02:35 PM

You better hope we aren't in the room next to you. :deviltail:

You know it!

dvonk

04-30-2012, 11:09 PM

The reason I was suspicious is because it didn't look quite like gasoline. Maybe it's because I was wearing my sunglasses, but the color didn't look right. Also, gasoline and water are slightly different when it comes to viscosity, and the way it was dripping made me think of water. Of course, since the engine was rocking that may have created the illusion that the droplets were different.

i noticed on the DMCSouth forum that they stopped dripping after spraying carb cleaner into them. makes me wonder if there were deposits that were interrupting the flow and pulling the droplets out of the main stream.

Farrar

05-01-2012, 10:43 AM

i noticed on the DMCSouth forum that they stopped dripping after spraying carb cleaner into them. makes me wonder if there were deposits that were interrupting the flow and pulling the droplets out of the main stream.

Maybe it's time for me to try rebuilding the carburetor again. The last time I just cleaned it with the spray because it didn't look that dirty to me, but perhaps I should soak it in varnish or whatever that stuff is for a day and a night like Bill does.

stevedmc

05-01-2012, 11:03 AM

Maybe it's time for me to try rebuilding the carburetor again. The last time I just cleaned it with the spray because it didn't look that dirty to me, but perhaps I should soak it in varnish or whatever that stuff is for a day and a night like Bill does.

No need for all of that. The main things that matter when rebuilding your carb is that you replace the power valve and the fuel pump accelerator thingie. The rest of the kit is just cheap gaskets. Oh, and we have to make sure your jets are clear. Compressed air is good for making sure the jets are clear.

Another important thing durring reassembly is to make sure you reinstall the choke correctly. If your choke isn't installed right your fast idle screw thingie won't work like it is supposed to.

If you are still game for working on your car tonight I can come by. If we need to rebuild the carb all we need is a $20 kit from Autozone. I rebuilt mine about a year ago just for the experience.

Farrar

05-01-2012, 11:14 AM

I didn't mess with the choke position. I just replaced the gaskets and such.

Thursday night would be better; my girlfriend's not feeling well so I will be busy working culinary magic tonight.

stevedmc

05-01-2012, 11:27 AM

I didn't mess with the choke position. I just replaced the gaskets and such.

Thursday night would be better; my girlfriend's not feeling well so I will be busy working culinary magic tonight.

Sounds good to me. Hope she feels better soon.

dvonk

05-01-2012, 02:42 PM

Maybe it's time for me to try rebuilding the carburetor again. The last time I just cleaned it with the spray because it didn't look that dirty to me, but perhaps I should soak it in varnish or whatever that stuff is for a day and a night like Bill does.

it could be worth a shot, especially if the rebuild kit is $20 like steve said. if you are a visual learner, this PDF full of photos (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=motorcraft+2100+rebuild&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therangerstation.com%2Ftech_l ibrary%2Fpdf_documents%2Fmotorcraft_2150_carb.pdf&ei=bC2gT9nXAuOi2wWuyqzSAg&usg=AFQjCNHUL7HJN1QozE-QhQ40G-Rt8pKXPA) might be helpful locating all the passageways in the 2100 to blow out.

when was the last time you rebuilt it?

Farrar

05-01-2012, 02:43 PM

when was the last time you rebuilt it?

Over a year ago. I rebuilt it because the engine was idling like crap... :lol:

stevedmc

05-01-2012, 03:06 PM

it could be worth a shot, especially if the rebuild kit is $20 like steve said. if you are a visual learner, this PDF full of photos (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=motorcraft+2100+rebuild&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therangerstation.com%2Ftech_l ibrary%2Fpdf_documents%2Fmotorcraft_2150_carb.pdf&ei=bC2gT9nXAuOi2wWuyqzSAg&usg=AFQjCNHUL7HJN1QozE-QhQ40G-Rt8pKXPA) might be helpful locating all the passageways in the 2100 to blow out.

when was the last time you rebuilt it?

We will know if he needs a rebuild or not after I put my carb on his car.

Ron

05-01-2012, 03:15 PM

We will know if he needs a rebuild or not after I put my carb on his car.
+1

dvonk

05-01-2012, 07:50 PM

We will know if he needs a rebuild or not after I put my carb on his car.

definitely a benefit of the modular nature of the carb setup. im curious to hear about the results...

stevedmc

05-01-2012, 08:23 PM

definitely a benefit of the modular nature of the carb setup. im curious to hear about the results...

Yeah if that don't fix it I want to make sure he is getting spark on each wire. I'm a mini Bill in training. I keep a tool for testing spark in my car at all times.

It's going to be so much fun swapping parts until we figure out what's wrong. I'm willing to swap anything except for engines.

Farrar

05-01-2012, 10:11 PM

I keep a tool for testing spark in my car at all times.

A screwdriver and a set of non-conductive gloves? ;-)

Ron

05-01-2012, 11:26 PM

A used spark plug?

stevedmc

05-01-2012, 11:30 PM

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Great-Neck-Adjustable-ignition-spark-tester/_/N-255s?itemIdentifier=10257

sean

05-02-2012, 06:55 AM

A used spark plug?
+1

Farrar

05-04-2012, 10:54 AM

Steve came over last night and we swapped intake manifold/carburetor assemblies. Although my engine didn't idle perfectly, it idled a hell of a lot better on his carb/manifold than on mine, so we decided to rebuild the carburetor. (I only did a half-job of it last time.) While we had the thing apart, he noticed that I was running #50 jets in my carburetor. This could result in a rich running condition, so he installed a set of #48s that he had on hand.

The super-thick gasket that Bill had mounted the carburetor on top of in almost four years ago was toast as soon as we pulled the carburetor up, but that gasket did not come with the rebuilt kit. I decided to use the spacer I had bought off of eBay last year in place of the thick gaskets, and just use ordinary paper gaskets on either side of it.

Unfortunately, the spacer is thicker than the thicker than the mounting gasket. So I will take out one of the studs from the intake manifold and take it to the hardware store tomorrow to find longer replacement studs. Knowing that Bill gets most of his hardware from McMaster, I am tempted to think that it's a metric part, since the nylon hex nuts have a 13mm diameter -- but strangely, McMaster doesn't sell stainless nylocks in metric, so I will rely on the good folks at Ace to determine the size and thread pitch of the stud, so that I can buy appropriate replacements.

To be continued...

stevedmc

05-04-2012, 11:13 AM

sean

05-04-2012, 11:24 AM

Yeah. What he said. I'm not even a carburetor guru according to this forum btw.

Poor Steve. It's a good thing you have DMCsouth then.

Farrar

05-04-2012, 11:26 AM

I'm not even a carburetor guru

Neither am I, according to Bill.

I don't like the term "guru" anyway -- I have visions of someone approaching a Tibetan monk at the top of a mountain to ask what size jets he needs in order to keep his engine from bogging down at idle. Not very "zen," is it?

stevedmc

05-04-2012, 11:35 AM

Poor Steve. It's a good thing you have DMCsouth then.

DMCSouth sucks. At least on here there are people for me to tick off.

On another note, Farrar forgot to mention the hot blonde we saw last night. I think she was genuinly interested in me.

jawn101

05-04-2012, 11:39 AM

On another note, Farrar forgot to mention the hot blonde we saw last night. I think she was genuinly interested in me.

Coffee doesn't count

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/461207/thumbs/s-STARBUCKS-BLONDE-large300.jpg

opethmike

05-04-2012, 11:39 AM

DMCSouth sucks. At least on here there are people for me to tick off.

On another note, Farrar forgot to mention the hot blonde we saw last night. I think she was genuinly interested in me.

I think Mr. Rice needs a hug. *hugs Mr. Rice*

sean

05-04-2012, 11:41 AM

Coffee doesn't count

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/461207/thumbs/s-STARBUCKS-BLONDE-large300.jpg

Bwhahahahahahahaha
WIN!

Farrar

05-04-2012, 12:04 PM

On another note, Farrar forgot to mention the hot blonde we saw last night. I think she was genuinly interested in me.

Oh yeah, sorry about that. That happens to me so often that I forget it almost instantly.

What a shame she didn't get off the phone or follow you.

stevedmc

05-04-2012, 01:02 PM

Oh yeah, sorry about that. That happens to me so often that I forget it almost instantly.

What a shame she didn't get off the phone or follow you.

Farrar has a girlfriend, so he might get in trouble if he tried getting too friendly. I on the other hand will be single until sometime around June 2014 so I've got complete freedom until then.

I think Mr. Rice needs a hug. *hugs Mr. Rice*

I wanted a hug from her, not you.

Farrar

05-04-2012, 03:41 PM

Farrar has a girlfriend, so he might get in trouble if he tried getting too friendly.

My girlfriend is incredibly tolerant of how friendly I am with my other female friends.

There's no point to me ever buying a lottery ticket. I won when I met her.

I am thinking of selling some of the parts that came with my car in order to help finance its restoration. Would anyone like to buy a stock exhaust system from me? I have no idea what it's worth. I also have a set of cracked rear taillight lenses and all the K-Jet stuff I removed when I put the carburetor on four years ago, including stainless steel-braided fuel lines. No idea what they're worth, either. I have thought about eBay, but I'd rather just bring stuff to DCS and avoid shipping expense/reimbursement.

dvonk

05-04-2012, 09:09 PM

Steve came over last night and we swapped intake manifold/carburetor assemblies. Although my engine didn't idle perfectly, it idled a hell of a lot better on his carb/manifold than on mine, so we decided to rebuild the carburetor.
[...]
To be continued...

good to hear that you were able to get some results. hopefully the rebuild & jets will cure your engine ailments.

Farrar

05-05-2012, 09:36 AM

good to hear that you were able to get some results. hopefully the rebuild & jets will cure your engine ailments.

Me, too. Now I am torn -- use the carb spacer with longer hold-down studs or just buy the original mounting gasket and have done? I will mull this over while I chop up video for my English final (topic: "DeLorean on a budget?")

Ron

05-05-2012, 10:59 AM

Me, too. Now I am torn -- use the carb spacer with longer hold-down studs or just buy the original mounting gasket and have done? I will mull this over while I chop up video for my English final (topic: "DeLorean on a budget?")If the "plate" is really an adapter (ie it diverts the flow in any way) pitch it.

Farrar

05-05-2012, 12:13 PM

If the "plate" is really an adapter (ie it diverts the flow in any way) pitch it.

Do you mean the spacer? It isn't.

stevedmc

05-05-2012, 12:16 PM

Me, too. Now I am torn -- use the carb spacer with longer hold-down studs or just buy the original mounting gasket and have done? I will mull this over while I chop up video for my English final (topic: "DeLorean on a budget?")

I would think the original gasket would be cheaper, easier to install, and would get a much better seal. Its only $5ish and a whole lot less headache.

Farrar

05-05-2012, 12:18 PM

I would think the original gasket would be cheaper, easier to install, and would get a much better seal. Its only $5ish and a whole lot less headache.

I will check out getting one of these. My plans have changed and it is vital that I get the D roadworthy ASAP. We're moving -- AGAIN. (Soon.)

stevedmc

05-05-2012, 12:23 PM

I will check out getting one of these. My plans have changed and it is vital that I get the D roadworthy ASAP. We're moving -- AGAIN. (Soon.)

Hopefully the thing will be drivable once you get the carb on the back (except for the start issue of course). Don't make me drive all the way down there just to install a $5 gasket otherwise I might turn a Bill on you (joking).

Are you getting the apartment with the nice carport/garage you are talking about? That would be sweet.

Ron

05-05-2012, 12:34 PM

Do you mean the spacer? It isn't.
Sorry, yes, the spacer.

Farrar

05-05-2012, 12:41 PM

I hope to nail down the starting issue soon.

Are you getting the apartment with the nice carport/garage you are talking about? That would be sweet.

Yep. Although the garage ups the rent a bit, it will be in a secure, covered storage facility. I will then be able to get collector-car insurance on it. The money I save by switching from my regular insurance policy means I will about break even with the garage rental. It also means I can leave the car on stands/ramps for any length of time necessary to get work done, not having to worry about rain. I think that's a big win.

stevedmc

05-05-2012, 12:49 PM

I will then be able to get collector-car insurance on it. The money I save by switching from my regular insurance policy means I will about break even with the garage rental.

Thats pretty sweet. I've considered buying a house with a garage just for insurance purposes but since I put 10k miles a year on my car and use it as a semi daily driver I have a feeling I would get in trouble if I had an accident with collectors insurance.

Farrar

05-05-2012, 01:00 PM

Thats pretty sweet. I've considered buying a house with a garage just for insurance purposes but since I put 10k miles a year on my car and use it as a semi daily driver I have a feeling I would get in trouble if I had an accident with collectors insurance.

You'd have to disconnect your angle drive a lot and/or lie to the insurance company... both bad ideas. :lol:

Ron

05-05-2012, 05:20 PM

You'd have to disconnect your angle drive a lot and/or lie to the insurance company... both bad ideas. :lol:Just wait a while, it'll break.

stevedmc

05-05-2012, 05:22 PM

Just wait a while, it'll break.

Not mine. I've got a Hervey angle drive.

dvonk

05-05-2012, 07:15 PM

Although the garage ups the rent a bit, it will be in a secure, covered storage facility. I will then be able to get collector-car insurance on it. The money I save by switching from my regular insurance policy means I will about break even with the garage rental. It also means I can leave the car on stands/ramps for any length of time necessary to get work done, not having to worry about rain. I think that's a big win.

sounds like a good deal. a garage was one of my criteria when we were looking at houses.

and +1 on the $5 gasket, even just for testing/troubleshooting. you can always add the spacer in later, right?

Farrar

05-05-2012, 07:32 PM

you can always add the spacer in later, right?

I'd have to buy longer studs, first.

Speaking of which: Two of the studs on the manifold I bought from Bill were not straight, so I decided to put nuts on them and tap with a hammer until the studs were straight. This plan worked for straightening the studs, but when I tried turning the nuts out, the studs came out.

I have school work to do right now, so I am leaving the car alone for the rest of the weekend. I will not have a chance to get back to the car until after my final exams later this week, so I have a little while to make up my mind what to do about this. In the meantime, I have an apartment to pack.

Farrar

05-06-2012, 01:52 PM

I bought the thick mounting gasket from AutoZone and some blue Loctite for the studs. As it happens, the studs themselves are straight -- it's the holes that are not tapped properly, so I had to bend the studs after they were put in to get everything on top of the manifold.

Anyway, the engine idles better now. I think the smaller jets help (#48 instead of #50), but I still can't get a smooth idle on just the idle air jets like everybody says I should be able to. Instead, I have to set the idle using the curb idle screw, then adjust the air mixture screws until the idle gets better. I still get an occasional miss, but it's not as bad as it was.

I don't know if it has something to do with steel bolts and washers plus aluminum intake manifold plus aluminum/magnesium engine block, but I always find that I need to re-tighten the intake manifold bolts once the engine is good and hot. I expect all those metals and alloys expand and contract at different rates.

Next tasks:

1. It sounds like I have something rubbing up front, and I have a sneaking suspicion that it's a dragging brake pad because it has a "sandpaper" sound to it. I need to change the brake pads anyway, so that will be easy to inspect. I will check the whole suspension and steering up there anyway, just to be sure.

2. The HVAC blower does not blow in Vent mode. It blows on Max and Norm but not Vent. Not sure about Heat/Defrost, but it also blows fine on Bi-Level.

3. Gear oil leak from passenger side output flange. I bought the oil seal but have yet to install it. Need to rent a seal install tool.

4. Evaporator replacement. Will need lots of help for this.

Since I am moving in the next two weeks, I will not be able to finish all of those tasks before DCS, so I will not see y'all in Orlando. Maybe in 2016, depending on where the next DCS is.

stevedmc

05-06-2012, 06:52 PM

Anyway, the engine idles better now. I think the smaller jets help (#48 instead of #50), but I still can't get a smooth idle on just the idle air jets like everybody says I should be able to. Instead, I have to set the idle using the curb idle screw, then adjust the air mixture screws until the idle gets better. I still get an occasional miss, but it's not as bad as it was.

You can only adjust the idle mixture screws when the car is at operating temperature and the choke plate is fully open. I've found the best thing to do is go for a brief drive (about 10 minutes) to get the car warmed up. Then pull over in a parking lot somewhere (secluded of course) and start doing your adjustments.

Basically you should only adjust the fast idle screw when the car is cold and you should only adjust the idle mixture screws when the car is hot. I've found parking lots to be the best place for doing both of these things.

Farrar

05-06-2012, 06:54 PM

In other news: I finished the video for the final presentation in my English class! There's a four-minute time limit, so this is all I could come up with. However, since I had never done video editing before, it was enough work just putting this together. Still, it was fun. Audio is one of my hobbies -- maybe I will add video to the list, as well. :)

It's being presented Thursday, but y'all get a sneak peek. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTvUO4ouGBc

stevedmc

05-06-2012, 07:00 PM

Farrar

05-06-2012, 07:05 PM

Its beautiful. Brought a tear to me eye.

Thanks! I wish I had more time for the video, but I had to leave a lot out to meet the four-minute time limit...

stevedmc

05-06-2012, 07:08 PM

Thanks! I wish I had more time for the video, but I had to leave a lot out to meet the four-minute time limit...

You made me look like a decent human being. It really was amazing.

Farrar

05-06-2012, 09:40 PM

You can only adjust the idle mixture screws when the car is at operating temperature and the choke plate is fully open. I've found the best thing to do is go for a brief drive (about 10 minutes) to get the car warmed up. Then pull over in a parking lot somewhere (secluded of course) and start doing your adjustments.

Basically you should only adjust the fast idle screw when the car is cold and you should only adjust the idle mixture screws when the car is hot. I've found parking lots to be the best place for doing both of these things.

I will really need to learn how to tolerate very high temperatures, if the adjustment has to be made hot. I always end up burning my knuckles on the thermostat housing.

stevedmc

05-06-2012, 10:02 PM

I will really need to learn how to tolerate very high temperatures, if the adjustment has to be made hot. I always end up burning my knuckles on the thermostat housing.

Just drive to Harbor Freight, pickup some gloves, and make the adjustments in the parking lot (wearing the gloves of course).

Farrar

05-07-2012, 03:24 PM

I am pretty sure the radiator cooling fans had come on at least once the last time I tried adjusting the idle air mixture screws. The cooling fans cycling is how I know the engine is at operating temperature. Nonetheless, it couldn't hurt. Now that my math final is over with, I only have an English portfolio to assemble. After that, I will be busy packing up the apartment, but I will try to find some time this weekend to try to make that adjustment again.

Farrar

05-07-2012, 05:13 PM

In other news, I cancelled my DCS registration. Looks like the rest of the GCD crew are on your own.

stevedmc

05-07-2012, 06:28 PM

In other news, I cancelled my DCS registration. Looks like the rest of the GCD crew are on your own.

Stinking club president/founder/treasurer/secretary/administrator, etc...

Farrar

05-07-2012, 11:26 PM

Stinking club president/founder/treasurer/secretary/administrator, etc...

Not so much a "club" as a loose association of people with the same automotive affinity. But that doesn't make for a nice three-latter acronym.

dvonk

05-07-2012, 11:34 PM

In other news: I finished the video for the final presentation in my English class...

nice video, your professional narration really brings it all together! :thumbup:

In other news, I cancelled my DCS registration. Looks like the rest of the GCD crew are on your own.

ah, thats too bad, i was looking forward to meeting you in person. :frown:

we shall meet at another juncture, no doubt. i hope your move goes well!

Farrar

05-09-2012, 10:20 AM

dvonk

05-09-2012, 11:03 AM

Picking up the keys to the new apartment (and the remote for the garage!) on Friday. This will be -- I hope -- the fastest move ever: I have been packing every night since we decided to get out, with the exception of yesterday when I had a migraine. Man, nobody ever told me how bad migraines can be... I hope this doesn't mean that I have suddenly become prone to them, because aging suddenly looks a lot worse than it did last week.

until i got a migraine, i just thought everyone who complained about a migraine was being a wimp about a headache. boy was i wrong. ive only had the one, and that was plenty for me.

anyway, congrats on your new garage (oh yeah, and apartment :wink: )!

Farrar

05-09-2012, 11:33 AM

until i got a migraine, i just thought everyone who complained about a migraine was being a wimp about a headache.

Ha -- me, too! I will sympathize with those folks a lot better now.

anyway, congrats on your new garage (oh yeah, and apartment :wink: )!

That's pretty much how I feel -- if it were air conditioned I would probably sleep in there. :lol:

dvonk

05-09-2012, 02:39 PM

That's pretty much how I feel -- if it were air conditioned I would probably sleep in there. :lol:

haha, totally. its a dream of mine to one day have a climate-controlled garage. of course, it would also have a lift, big air compressor, lots of room, etc... :biggrin:

Farrar

05-09-2012, 10:53 PM

I think one of those MaxJax things would be enough for my personal garage. I am sure I can convince my significant other that it would be worth the investment. :)

jawn101

05-09-2012, 10:56 PM

I think one of those MaxJax things would be enough for my personal garage. I am sure I can convince my significant other that it would be worth the investment. :)

I would *love* one of those. It would give me the ability and courage to tackle things I just don't do now. Good luck with that... (and if you're renting, don't let them see the holes in the floor!)

Farrar

05-10-2012, 10:28 AM

(and if you're renting, don't let them see the holes in the floor!)

Ha! I was speaking in the long term for when we are in our own place and not renting... but yeah, it would be interesting to see if I could get away with it.

I will be making some alterations to the apartment (putting shelves and clothing rods in closets, etc.) but those can all be easily undone with some spackling paste.

I am still wondering why I cannot start the car with the key. I ignored the weird blue wire and connected the two red/white wires the way they're supposed to be. My car has had the early-VIN wiring mod done and I have verified with Steve's help that it was done properly. I have verified the Neutral Safety Switch works and has good contact, and I have verified that the Start Inhibit Relay works and has good contact. Yet with everything wired up as it is supposed to be I still have to jump the starter motor manually. I am stumped, but I don't want to have to tear the wiring harness apart just now. Any thoughts?

stevedmc

05-10-2012, 10:48 AM

Yet with everything wired up as it is supposed to be I still have to jump the starter motor manually. I am stumped, but I don't want to have to tear the wiring harness apart just now.

Run a wire from your bulkhead mod through the firewall and into the car. I would suggest that you run the wire through the hole in the battery compartment. Tuck the wire somewhere convenient such as between the passenger seat and the console. Then run a wire directly from the positive terminal to the same location in your cabin. Now you can start the car from inside (whether it is raining or not).

For a more permanent fix, go down to Oreilly's and get one of those fancy push buttons for starting cars and hook it up to your wires. Or you could just use a really heavy duty switch.

Either way, just run some wires into your car and at least you will be able to conveniently enjoy your car until the issue is resolved.

dmc6960

05-10-2012, 11:06 AM

Do some voltage tests on the start inhibit relay socket. Make sure they all behave like they should and are securely fastened to the socket.

The relay coil GND should only have GND when not in gear.
The relay coil 12V should get 12V when the key is turned to start.
The relay power input should be 12V at all times.
The relay power output should turn the starter (test with a jumper).

Report back and we'll go from there.

Farrar

05-10-2012, 12:49 PM

The relay coil GND should only have GND when not in gear.
Check.

The relay coil 12V should get 12V when the key is turned to start.
No.

The relay power input should be 12V at all times.
Check.

The relay power output should turn the starter (test with a jumper).
No.

A little additional info: In order to turn the starter motor, I use a wire spliced into the red/white wire at the bulkhead connector. I touch it to the positive jump post in the engine compartment and the starter motor turns every time. So I know the connection at the bulkhead is good. Not sure if that is relevant. I originally installed that wire just to have a way to start the engine from the engine compartment while working on the car, but now I have to use it all the time. It does turn the starter motor without fail, so I assume the connections at the starter motor itself are also good. Not sure if that is relevant at this stage, but I thought I'd mention it.

Bitsyncmaster

05-10-2012, 01:11 PM

Check.

No.

Check.

No.

Your problem is the lack of 12 volts on the relay contacts. With the relay modification that should have been done, that 12 volts was attached to the door lock circuit breaker.

dmc6960

05-10-2012, 01:14 PM

Ah HA! There seems to be two problems here then. Both need to be troubleshot individually.

First, your start inhibit relay not getting its coil 12V from the ignition switch. This is bad! Under the drivers side dash, you should see I think two harnesses going into the steering collumn. One of them contains all the wires for the ignition switch. Your interested in the brown one and the white/red wire. Disconnect it and test CONTINUITY on the ignition switch side. Turn key to start, you should get a connection. Next, take a jumper and connect the brown to the white/red wire (make sure your start inhibit relay is still removed). Now with that jumper in place, check for relay coil 12V at the relay socket.

Next, it would appear that supplying 12v to the relay output pin does not turn the starter. Lets test for something else then. Find your "hot start" relay socket. Its got a white/red wire. Give it 12v, does your starter engage? Test continuity between that that wire on the hot start relay socket and the start inhibit relay socket. They should be connected. After those checks, you'll need to remove the engine harness from the bulkhead connectors and test for either 12v (with everything jumped) or continuity on the bulkhead connector for the starter and the power out from the start inhibit relay socket.

Report back.

Your problem is the lack of 12 volts on the relay contacts. With the relay modification that should have been done, that 12 volts was attached to the door lock circuit breaker.

Proper service bulletin mods has that relay getting its power input from the blower fan breaker, not the door lock breaker.

However the door lock breaker is a GREAT place for really good 12V testing power.

Farrar

05-10-2012, 01:32 PM

stevedmc

05-10-2012, 05:31 PM

Thanks, guys!

I will try these and report back on the next good-weather day (or when I finally get the car in the garage...)

So glad I have this forum and the DML to help me troubleshoot the little things that get me scratching my head over this car. :)

No need for troubleshooting. Just mount a fancy push start button somewhere in the car, run some wires to it, and presto, you've got a fancy exotic car with a push start ignition.

I'm thinking something like this would look really nice in place of the dimmer knob or cigarette lighter.

10343

This could easily be mounted inside one of those console dummy switches:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/DOR4/85935/N0212.oap?ck=Search_start+button_-1_2314&keyword=start+button

Farrar

05-10-2012, 09:34 PM

This could easily be mounted inside one of those console dummy switches:

That would be the worst possible option -- I hit those switches all the time with my elbow. Just what I need -- the starter motor engaging when I am going down the highway at 60 MPH. :lol:

First, your start inhibit relay not getting its coil 12V from the ignition switch. This is bad! Under the drivers side dash, you should see I think two harnesses going into the steering collumn. One of them contains all the wires for the ignition switch.

I have the steering wheel canopy off right now... should I just test at the switch itself? Or is there a connection somewhere inside the wrap of the harness that may have snapped? I have seen some strange stuff inside those harnesses, so there's no telling.

You know, it's funny how these cars work... I think "All right, I've got it running fine, so it's time for some fun," and then suddenly something happens, like the air conditioning explodes or the key stops working. I should never do anything except basic maintenance and repair to this car, because as soon as I think I can spend some car money on something fun, it comes to bite me in the ass. :lol: