H4 conversion questions

[Farrar]

Question for those who have replaced their sealed beams with H4s:

Since all four sealed beam bulbs have the same dimensions, would I simply buy two of each H4 housing -- two left and two right?

After that, I just install the correct bulbs -- 55-watt bulbs for low-beams and 80-watt bulbs for high-beams -- is that correct?

Thanks in advance.

Farrar

[Farrar]

Also, I recall reading somewhere that the sockets must have two of the wires swapped -- which ones?

Thanks again in advance.

Farrar

[WelmoedJ]

When you look at the pins of the lamp (pins towards you, middel pin up) then

left = GND
right = high beam
top = low beam

I know the original high beam is not connected on the outer units.
Should you do that (like I did) you will have all 4 lamps produce high beam.

On low beam only the outer units will work.

[Farrar]

When you look at the pins of the lamp (pins towards you, middel pin up) then

left = GND
right = high beam
top = low beam

I know the original high beam is not connected on the outer units.
Should you do that (like I did) you will have all 4 lamps produce high beam.

On low beam only the outer units will work.

Ah, thank you Welmoed! So does this mean I install the same wattage dual-filament bulb in all four housings?

Farrar

[WelmoedJ]

Ah, thank you Welmoed! So does this mean I install the same wattage dual-filament bulb in all four housings?

Farrar

Yes, Farrar.
Over here the "official" values are 60/55W12V (hi/low).
There are a couple of shops selling 100/80W12V but these will get you a citation as they are not allowed (in Europe).

Furthermore, I found that Philips has the best brightness (seems to lighten farther and more).
However it may well be that Philips is not sold in the USA under its own name.

[Farrar]

Thanks, Welmoed!

Here's my shopping list:

Small Square Headlight Kit, Right Side 6.5" X 4" - Quantity: 2
Small Square Headlight Kit, Left Side 6.5" X 4" - Quantity: 2
H4 60/55w Halogen Composite Headlamp - Quantity: 4

Total cost: $98.44 plus shipping.

I look forward to doing this conversion as well as painting my rusty headlight buckets soon! :)

Farrar

[WelmoedJ]

I know the original high beam is not connected on the outer units.
Should you do that (like I did) you will have all 4 lamps produce high beam.
On low beam only the outer units will work.

I may have given you a wrong advice about the high beams.
I had no high beam on my Pontiac outer units.

I thought this over and think our D switches both inner and outer units on high beam.
No need to have two lower beams unless you want to improve the low lights (in that case conenct the low beam on the inner units too).

[Farrar]

I thought this over and think our D switches both inner and outer units on high beam.

This is correct; sorry I forgot to mention it earlier.

I've ordered the parts and look forward to better vision at night. :)

Farrar

[Farrar]

They arrived today! The housings include a small blue light. I assume it is meant to be a "running light" but I will leave it disconnected since I understand only law enforcement are allowed to have blue lights.

Farrar

[Farrar]

Since the bulbs are only 55W on low, it would require less than 20 amps to have all four low-beam filaments engaged. (High beams are 60W which means 20 amps, so I will change fuse #15 to 30 amp rating.)

Perhaps I would like to have all four bulbs engaged on low-beam. It may look silly compared to other DeLoreans, but I like having more light... has anyone else done this?

Farrar

[DCUK Martin]

The wiring for H4's is as follows (in the car's perspective)

Left: Black
Top: Red/Blue
Right: White/Blue

European/Japanese outer headlights have a beam pattern which gives the light thrown out a "horizon" and lifts towards the roadside (depending on the country). These are much better to see by than many aftermarket US lights which simply give a diffused light. More power comes a distant second to a decent beam pattern. I always use vanilla 55/60W bulbs and always get great illumination with Hella outer lenses.

[Farrar]

The wiring for H4's is as follows (in the car's perspective)

Left: Black
Top: Red/Blue
Right: White/Blue

Thanks, Martin! You just saved me the step of getting out my multimeter. :)


I always use vanilla 55/60W bulbs and always get great illumination with Hella outer lenses.

I will be using the "vanilla" 55/60W bulbs here as well; High-Intensity Discharge (HID) bulbs just became illegal in Louisiana. The new glass is clearer than the old sealed-beams', and the extra twenty watts will, I'm sure, make a great difference.

Farrar

[Farrar]

Thanks to everyone here for your help! The new housings and bulbs are installed. I haven't aimed them yet, but I can already tell they're brighter.

31353134

Farrar

[DMC5180]

Farrar,

I Know It's your Money, But you should have bought Real HIGH BEAM housings for the Inner lights. Light projection down the road would be much better. I would NOT run 4 LOW Beams. You will constantly get Flashed by people thinking your on HIGH BEAM. Do not install 100/80W bulbs You will melt things in the wiring. NOT GOOD.

I have a friend that installed those housings, he has since replaced them with the CIBIE E2 spec housings. he said the improvement was dramatic.

Just my Opinion

[delornut]

High-Intensity Discharge (HID) bulbs just became illegal in Louisiana.

Farrar[/QUOTE]


Just curious, many new cars come with HID headlights. How does your local law enforcment differenciate?

Bruce Benson

[WelmoedJ]

Just curious, many new cars come with HID headlights. How does your local law enforcment differenciate?
Bruce Benson

I presume the US has overriding laws for that, just as in Europe.
According to the Dutch traffic law HID light units may not be installed in cars that have halogen type light units (H1, H4 and so).
Also light systems of cars that have been approved for road worthiness upon marketing from factory may not be changed into an other type of light system.

That probably covers what your laws may be like.

[Farrar]

I Know It's your Money, But you should have bought Real HIGH BEAM housings for the Inner lights.

I didn't see any available. Suggestions?



I would NOT run 4 LOW Beams. You will constantly get Flashed by people thinking your on HIGH BEAM.

I'm not, and I won't.


Do not install 100/80W bulbs You will melt things in the wiring. NOT GOOD.

I didn't, so I won't -- and yeah, that would be bad.


I have a friend that installed those housings, he has since replaced them with the CIBIE E2 spec housings. he said the improvement was dramatic.

Well, that's convenient -- for you. I posted about these housings weeks and weeks ago and nobody said a word about them, so I decided to go ahead and be the first to try them. Now that I have them installed up you jump and say "Hey! Bad idea! I know this guy... and here's something better."

I suppose it's all fine and large for you to insult my choice after the fact, but your opinions -- however ill-informed -- would have been worth more before the new housings and bulbs had been installed.

Thanks for your opinion, I guess.

Farrar


Just curious, many new cars come with HID headlights. How does your local law enforcment differenciate?

You're not allowed to put HID bulbs on any car that didn't come with them from the factory.

Farrar

[WelmoedJ]

H4 units house a double filament bulb.
The units are designed to provide good lighting in both low and high beam.
Over here in Europe they are used on the D for inner and outer units, no problems regarding the spread and distance of the beams.

If you're content with this, way to go, Farrar!

[DMC5180]

Farrar,

I was unaware you had been looking to do the conversion kit thing. Please don't take offense. Although, it's too late for you now, here is the place to get the (technically)correct housings for someone else. H4 Hi/Lo and H1 Hi.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html

DMCH also sells the same 4 housing setup.

Regarding Aftermarket (HID) bulbs. Yea, I can believe they are illegal now. Those Cheap Aftermarket (drop-in) conversions do not take into account the optics required for HID bulbs. You cannot simply swap out halogen bulbs to HID. They will blind oncoming traffic. FWIW: I run HID's but the Kit I have was DOT Approved by Sylvania as part of there Xenarc product line. They no longer make the kit. But a similar kit is still available from the place I bought mine.

[Farrar]

Holy cow. I don't use my high-beams enough to warrant spending over $200 on them. Thanks, though.

Farrar

[DMC5180]

You can thank the weak dollar for that. They come from Europe. They used to be $65 ea at daniel stern lighting.

[MartyP]

Anyone tried those Halo or angel eyes they sell on EBAY ? I wonder how they look and fit ?

Any pictures ?

Farrar, these looks good, where you get them ?

[WelmoedJ]

I have angel eyes on my car (only the inner units).
Moved them from my first D to the black one.
They are looking good and the high beam is also great.

Over here these angel eyes are allowed if fitted with "normal" white light.
Allowed to be used as parking lights (city lights) too.
The ones that can switch colours or have another colour are forbidden.

[Farrar]

Farrar, these looks good, where you get them ?

I bought two left and two right from here (http://www.sherco-auto.com/headlampconv.htm). You will notice that they are listed as H4656 housings -- at the time that I was looking I could not find housings specifically listed as being for H4651 replacement. Dennis has since pointed me to proper H4651 replacement housings, which come from Europe and are $80 each. The housings I bought are currently on sale for $22.11 each.

They don't come with installation instructions, but installation is pretty straightforward. I removed the little blue bulb/socket/pigtail from each housing (the same size bulb as our six door lights) and covered the resultant hole with white electrical tape -- blue running lights are illegal where I live unless you're a cop, plus I don't think the housings would fit with the pigtail sticking out the back, and I didn't want to mess with wiring those up anyhow.

Side note: I bought four H4 bulbs (12v 60/55W), which means that I have dual-filament bulbs in the high-beam housings, but that only the 60-Watt filament is engaged when high-beams are selected. I suppose you could install H1 bulbs in the high-beam housings, but I goofed when I made my order and the H4s seem to work fine despite the fact that only one filament is used.

I hope all of this makes sense; I haven't had my coffee yet today.

Farrar

[TTait]

I've been curious about the black housings on eBay - anyone ever seen these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/77-95-DMC-Delorean-4-Black-Headlights-4x6-w-adapter-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c5e61bfe9QQitemZ19056 2025449QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

They might look nice next to the black center grill. Just curious to see a pic and know how well they work.

[Farrar]

I've been curious about the black housings on eBay - anyone ever seen these?

Not until now.

I like the opportunity of leisure time promised with the units:


use the included adapter to play in the back of the new light,

Oh boy, time to play! :D

Farrar

[dmc6960]

Strait out of the years listed in the Gold Portfolio.

[Farrar]

I noticed last night that when the low-beams are active, it looks like there's a slight amount of voltage going through the high-beams as well -- the filaments are dimly lit.

Do the +/- leads for the high-beams also need to be switched? I figured since there are only two of them it didn't matter which way the current flows.

Maybe I will get H1 bulbs instead and see if that cures the problem; I only put dual-filament bulbs in there because I didn't know what I was doing yet. :lol:

Farrar

[DCUK Martin]

I noticed last night that when the low-beams are active, it looks like there's a slight amount of voltage going through the high-beams as well -- the filaments are dimly lit.


That means the 3 wire bulbs are not wired correctly. Remember it is in the car's perspective - left means "towards the left of the car".



Do the +/- leads for the high-beams also need to be switched?


No

[WelmoedJ]

I noticed last night that when the low-beams are active, it looks like there's a slight amount of voltage going through the high-beams as well -- the filaments are dimly lit.

Do the +/- leads for the high-beams also need to be switched? I figured since there are only two of them it didn't matter which way the current flows.

If the filaments seem to be lit, that could indicate a wrong flow or bad ground.
Make sure the wires are connected to the right pins.



Maybe I will get H1 bulbs instead and see if that cures the problem; I only put dual-filament bulbs in there because I didn't know what I was doing yet. :lol:


H4 units can only be fitted with H4 type bulbs. H1 will not fit.

[Farrar]

That means the 3 wire bulbs are not wired correctly. Remember it is in the car's perspective - left means "towards the left of the car".

OK, thanks -- I have to swap the black and white/blue wires, then. That's easy enough.


H4 units can only be fitted with H4 type bulbs. H1 will not fit.

Hm, good to know. Lots of websites I see advertise H1 as "high." So I continue to use H4 bulbs with one unused filament for my "high beams."

Farrar

[AdmiralSenn]

Anyone have any info on the ebay H4 conversion kits? I know I'd need to beef up the wiring (headlight switch is already modified with a relay) but has anyone had any problems or had a good reason NOT to go with them? (Besides the worry of buying something from an auction that lists that it fits DMCs from 77-95.)

I'm ALMOST tempted to get the "Angel Eye" ones but I'm worried that in a week I'll think they look idiotic. Anyone done this?

I'm weighing my options here as I want to replace my headlights BEFORE I spend forever putting the fascia back on.

[WelmoedJ]

Farrar also asked this question IIRC at page 2 of this thread.
I have the angel eyes on my car (enlarge my avatar and you will see them).
In incandescent light (warm white) they look good to me.

Perhaps to make sure you can enlarge it, here it is again:
6002

[AdmiralSenn]

Farrar also asked this question IIRC at page 2 of this thread.
I have the angel eyes on my car (enlarge my avatar and you will see them).
In incandescent light (warm white) they look good to me.

Perhaps to make sure you can enlarge it, here it is again:
6002

That does look good - I'm sold on the design now. Any thoughts on quality or reliability?

[WelmoedJ]

No info on reliability/quality.
Mine came with my first D.
After totalling that one, I moved the angel eyes to the black car.
They're on that one for over 3 years now and total life is 5 years without any deterioriation.

Lense is glas, reflector is metal.
See to it that you get that type (I'm not sure what brand it is).

[AdmiralSenn]

No info on reliability/quality.
Mine came with my first D.
After totalling that one, I moved the angel eyes to the black car.
They're on that one for over 3 years now and total life is 5 years without any deterioriation.

Lense is glas, reflector is metal.
See to it that you get that type (I'm not sure what brand it is).

Will do. Thanks for the info! 5 years is pretty good considering these things can't be all that old on the market anyway.

[DMC5180]

I believe EDD (DMCEU) carries the angel eyes.

I have a friend that just removed an H4 conversion kit he had in favor of the DMCH performance Headlights. He is much happier with the CIBIE E2 spec units.

If your interested I can ask him if he wants to sell the H4 kit. He only had them on the car for a year and very few driving miles. NDH.

[AdmiralSenn]

I assume they're not angel eyes, which is okay as I'm not completely set on those. Depends on the price though - part of the reason I'm looking at these kits is the price point. I got a bit of money for my birthday to spend on the car but it's not a whole lot.

And I did see Ed's lights but DAAANNNG those are expensive. Right now I'm 99% sold on the ebay angel eye kits just because they're cheap and seem to be decent quality.

This week I'm going to start repainting the headlight buckets (not that they really need it that badly but I want to make sure I get as much done as I can). I'd like to order my new headlights, whatever they are, by Wednesday at the latest.

[DMC5180]

How much are the EBay one your looking at? I did a quick search and found various kits in the $100 price range.

[AdmiralSenn]

Anywhere from $~70-100 depending on if I want the premade wiring harness conversion pieces or not.

[DMC5180]

Ok, I'll ask my friend what he wants for them. They do have the conversion harnesses. I helped him do the original installation and in the process reconfigured (Repinned) the adapters too correct the polarity difference between Sealed beams & H4's. So it literally would be a plug-n-play install for you. FYI the housing he has are called (Diamond Cut Style)

If you repositioned the wires in the LO/HI outer Factory connector (swap the side terminals) you would not need the adapters. The HI inner Factory connector can be used as is without an adapter (plugged in Upside down) This would leave the top LO Beam bulb terminal open.

I'll PM you when I have a response from him.

[Farrar]

If you repositioned the wires in the LO/HI outer Factory connector (swap the side terminals) you would not need the adapters. The HI inner Factory connector can be used as is without an adapter (plugged in Upside down) This would leave the top LO Beam bulb terminal open.

This is exactly what I did on mine. Also changed the 20-amp fuses to 30-amp fuses. No problems so far.

Farrar

[DMC5180]

I'm not sure I would recommend upsizing fuses. This just forces problems to some place else and do NOT use so called HIGH output bulbs. The wiring is not designed for the extra load. Just keep the fuse box terminals and fuses clean or fresh. Fuses are cheap It's probably not a bad Idea to put new ones in every 5 years or so.

[LEVY]

I just saw this thread, a little late for Farrar but it might not be for others.

The following paragraph was posted on the old forum by someone, I copied and saved it but for some reason his name was not included. If it was your post, please let us know!

Here it is:



HEADLIGHTS UPGRADE PROBLEMS

Original H4 sealed-beam lights work fine both on high and low beam, however when I connect-up the new lights (globes) they do not dip correctly, and when on high beam, the outer headlights dull for some reason.

However when on low beam, the inner lights which are supposed to be off, illuminate with a faint glow as if there's a bad earth connection somewhere. So I cannot work out why the sealed beams work fine yet the new globed lights don't.
________________
There's the source of your problem. The original sealed beams are not H4's and the pins are arranged in a different pattern.




Re-Wiring headlight connectors for H4 bulbs

The DeLorean has US-style Sylvania sealed beam headlights as standard. The outer lenses are a 3-pin twin filament type for main and dip beam, and the inner lights are just main beam and have a 2-pin connector.

Our replacement lights use a standard 3-pin H4 bulb. This is not a problem on the inner lights because the two-pin connector fits the 3-pin bulb and powers the high beam filament without a problem. The pin positioning is identical on the 3-pin connector apart from being upside-down, relative to the old sealed beams, when the new lamps are installed.

Unfortunaltely, the connections on the 3-pin plugs on the outer lights are not the same on the H4's as on the original sealed beams. Symptoms of lights not having had their wiring corrected include the dip and main beams being seemingly reversed, and when on dip beam, seeing the high beam lights glowing slightly. Re-wiring is very simple, once you know the correct order - and not altogether simple to work out!

These instructions are given in the car's perspective - ie "left" means "towards the left side of the car". And you will need to re-wire both three pin connectors behind both outer lights.

Using a small flat-bladed screwdriver, carefully prise down the locking tabs in the spade connectors, allowing them to be pushed through and out of the back of the plastic housing. Once out, carefully prise them up again so they can be locked back into place.

Re-install the BLACK wire(s) to the LEFT
Re-install the WHITE/BLUE wire(s) to the RIGHT
Re-install the RED/BLUE wire(s) to the TOP

[DMC5180]

A little late for sure.

We already addressed how to correct the wiring.

It's still good info that should be saved in resources.

[Elvis]

I'm not sure I would recommend upsizing fuses. This just forces problems to some place else and do NOT use so called HIGH output bulbs. The wiring is not designed for the extra load. Just keep the fuse box terminals and fuses clean or fresh. Fuses are cheap It's probably not a bad Idea to put new ones in every 5 years or so.


But I do recommend it as the 20A fuses will melt the fusebox as the get very hot
when used close to their rating. I poste pics of measurements years ago when we also
found out that the original sealed beam only had around 35W but the european
standard ist 55W/60W.

Still even the 30A fuses will burn when a short occurs. I've been using it for >5 Years now.


I also highly recommend to install an extra 10A fuse in the fat red wire of the Door Lock ECU !

[DMC5180]

I suppose if that circuit is running at the high end of the fuse rating, then that would be different. If circuit is pulling 20 amps then a 20 amp fuse is not enough and you would need to bump up your margin. If it is then I would change my position it. I still think oxidation plays a lot into melting fuses. I will agree if you have an instant dead short a 30 amp will blow nearly as fast as a 20 amp. Your wiring is still protected.

Standard bulbs are rated 65/55W Multiply 65W x 4= 260W/13V= 20A So Ya I would increase this fuse size. I did not realize we are running so close to the rating.

Imagine a High Output bulb 100/80W 400W/13V= 30.7A

The way my HID's are configured, the standard high beams are H1 65W x 2. the outer HID's remain ON via a Bridging diode during high beam operation are 35W x 2

200W/13V=15.38A My 20 amp fuse is just fine for my application.