Backing washers on Delorean.EU LCA brackets

[jackb]

I just got my LCA brackets in the mail, looking forward to installing them.
I've read quite a bit about other users saying to use large diameter washers on both the inboard and outboard side of the poly bushings, and use longer bolts to make it work. No problem, I ordered them minus the bolts/washers to save some money since I knew I'd be replacing them.

For the aft bracket, the outboard side of the poly bushing has a small recess. I will fill that with a smaller diameter washer, then a larger diameter washer over it on the outside.

The inboard side though...
The metal sleeve bushing (inside the poly bushing) is shorter than the poly bushing. It appears to be exactly short enough so the poly touches the frame, and the metal bushing butts right up to the ...I don't know how to describe it, but the stock LCA washer is not flush with the frame. The frame is raised slightly around the bolt hole.

If I put a large diameter backing washer on the inboard side, as several people recommend to help prevent the poly bushing from walking out, then only the center of the washer will be contacting anything (the raised portion around the bolt hole).

Suggestions? Just go with a large diameter washer on the frame side? Another washer with a larger inside diameter to fill up the space?

It's difficult for me to describe, so anyone with these brackets, please chime in.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/kaaooga3/dmc/42E4420C-5B49-4C4D-875C-1D156FCCE5C5_zpsz4soxtnm.jpg

[Mark D]

I installed thin large stainless washers on both the inboard and outboard side of the poly bushings. You do not want to add a small diameter washer to take up the gap you have shown in the photo. The poly will compress to the length of the metal sleeve when installed. You're seeing a gap there because the poly squishes outward and elongates when you force it into the the metal arm. Once there is clamp load on both sides from the washers it will force it back to the length of the sleeve and bulge outward a little. This is the intention of using the washers...to keep the arm from floating around on the bushing.

Double check all of your sleeves to make sure they are identical in length. If you install the sleeves into the bushings without the bushings installed into the arm they sleeves shoudl be the same length as the bushings.

I'll find some photos that should help explain if you still have questions.

[Mark D]

The photos I have didn't really show much...

This MS Paint diagram should explain it better though. I love MS Paint :blush:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=26275&d=1396540500

Note that this only applies to the inner bolt where the LCA attaches to the frame. At the shock mount position on the LCA you do not need an inner stainless washer since the flat surface of the LCA compresses the bushing.

[jackb]

That mspaint made it very clear, thanks! Those are the most clear, detailed answers on the subject I've read so far.

[Mark D]

Cool, I'm glad that helped!

One other thing that I forgot to mention was greasing the bushings. I used energy suspension formula 5 prelube. Any silicone grease should work, but I've found that the stuff from energy suspension is really sticky and waterproof and won't wear off. I've never had any squeaks using it on a few other cars.

I just applied a light coat on inside of the bushing where it contacts the sleeve. The inside of the bushing has a knurled texture to help hold the grease so it won't just push out.

I also put a thin coating on the outer flat surfaces of the bushing where it contacts the washers.

I didn't apply any on the cylindrical outer surface of the bushing where it contacts the control arm support brackets. I figured this would further reduce the chance of the supports sliding around on the bushings.

So far so good after a few thousand miles.

[Bitsyncmaster]

That mspaint made it very clear, thanks! Those are the most clear, detailed answers on the subject I've read so far.

+1

[Farrar]

Don't forget to use hardened steel washers. You probably already knew that, though.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Now that I have my LCA and bushings, I don't see how you can add any washers other than the ones included with the bushings and still have it fit between the two spacers welded to the frame. What am I missing?

[DMC5180]

Don't forget to use hardened steel washers. You probably already knew that, though.

The washers do not need to hardened (that's overkill) They do need to be thick (.100 or better)


Now that I have my LCA and bushings, I don't see how you can add any washers other than the ones included with the bushings and still have it fit between the two spacers welded to the frame. What am I missing?

Washers do not go on the LCA bushings, just the stabilizer link bushings inside and out.

BEFORE 2655526558

AFTER 2655626557

I have this setup on my car with ZERO movement since.

The kit consists of

16 AN 970-8 (mil-spec) Large area washers w/ class II Cad plating Dimensionally they are 2" OD x 1/2"ID x .104 thick. The stack up of washers 4 x .104 = .416 so the bolts must be .5 longer than the ones in the LCA link kit.
2 SAE Gr. 8 bolts 1/2-20 x 8.5" L Yellow zinc plate
2 SAE Gr. 8 bolts 1/2-20 x 6.0" L Yellow zinc Plate
4 1/2-20 nylock nuts (Mil Spec) w/ Cad plating.

All hardware can be purchased from www.Fastenal.com (http://www.Fastenal.com)

I happen to have a Fastenal Logistics Supply store on sight at my job. I get the corporate discount which is roughly 35% off retail I think.

I don't actively sell these kits. But I have had a couple requests for them from as far away as the UK where SAE hardware is difficult to get. I supplied those folks with the kit.

If anyone is interested you can PM me. The last set I did was about $30 including USPS small flat-rate shipping a year and half ago.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Washers do not go on the LCA bushings, just the stabilizer link bushings inside and out.

Thanks Dennis.

[jackb]

The washers do not need to hardened (that's overkill) They do need to be thick (.100 or better)



Washers do not go on the LCA bushings, just the stabilizer link bushings inside and out.

BEFORE 2655526558

AFTER 2655626557

I have this setup on my car with ZERO movement since.

The kit consists of

16 AN 970-8 (mil-spec) Large area washers w/ class II Cad plating Dimensionally they are 2" OD x 1/2"ID x .104 thick. The stack up of washers 4 x .104 = .416 so the bolts must be .5 longer than the ones in the LCA link kit.
2 SAE Gr. 8 bolts 1/2-20 x 8.5" L Yellow zinc plate
2 SAE Gr. 8 bolts 1/2-20 x 6.0" L Yellow zinc Plate
4 1/2-20 nylock nuts (Mil Spec) w/ Cad plating.

All hardware can be purchased from www.Fastenal.com (http://www.Fastenal.com)

I happen to have a Fastenal Logistics Supply store on sight at my job. I get the corporate discount which is roughly 35% off retail I think.

I don't actively sell these kits. But I have had a couple requests for them from as far away as the UK where SAE hardware is difficult to get. I supplied those folks with the kit.

If anyone is interested you can PM me. The last set I did was about $30 including USPS small flat-rate shipping a year and half ago.
Thanks Dennis, I saw your post on Talk after starting this thread, the fastenal source helped. I'm having issues with my local fastenal though, sending you a PM...

[Mark D]

Excellent info Dennis!

Although now I'm kind of confused what control arm support kit actually comes with these days in terms of hardware...

I think when I originally got my kit (ordered it through DMCMW) it had thick zinc plated washers but not enough of them to to stack on both sides of the outer bushing. Had I used additional thick washers (not supplied with the kit) the LCA pivot bolt would have also been too short as you have described.

Before I was able to install anything DMCMW supplied me with some thinner stainless washers with enough quantity to install them on both sides of the bushing as you have shown. They were thin enough that I was able to use the standard bolt that came with the kit although I only have 1 1/2 threads past the end of the nylock nut.

I used the standard thick washers where the supports bolt thru the shock with no issue with bolt length.

I'm wondering if the stainless washers at the LCA pivot are strong enough for this application or if I should consider swapping to zinc plated steel like you've got shown.

[jackb]

Excellent info Dennis!

Although now I'm kind of confused what control arm support kit actually comes with these days in terms of hardware...
I think when I originally got my kit (ordered it through DMCMW) it had thick zinc plated washers but not enough of them to to stack on both sides of the outer bushing. Had I used additional thick washers (not supplied with the kit) the LCA pivot bolt would have also been too short as you have described.

Before I was able to install anything DMCMW supplied me with some thinner stainless washers with enough quantity to install them on both sides of the bushing as you have shown. They were thin enough that I was able to use the standard bolt that came with the kit although I only have 1 1/2 threads past the end of the nylock nut.

I used the standard thick washers where the supports bolt thru the shock with no issue with bolt length.

I'm wondering if the stainless washers at the LCA pivot are strong enough for this application or if I should consider swapping to zinc plated steel like you've got shown.
I requested the bolts/washers be left out of my order when I placed it (from Europe). From having read about the washers, I knew I'd need to replace the bolts/washers that would come with it anyway, so why bother paying for them+shipping if I didn't need them in the first place? The brackets + shipping ended up costing $375. It would've been a bit more with the hardware included.