Ask Bill about carbing a DeLorean and other K-Jet/Carb tangets

[content22207]

If you don't want to take my word for it, simply push the plate closed with your fingers and see what happens.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

If you don't want to take my word for it,...
I remember what happened the last time I did that...


...simply push the plate closed with your fingers and see what happens.
That's pretty funny, but it wouldn't be "partially closed" nor prove anything, now would it?

But, since I don't have a hacked fuel system on my D, how about the next time we are at a meet we try it on your car? Now since you said never, I'd choose to do it after you shut your engine off, but while you hit the pedal once (per manufacturer starting instructions mind you), then step back and you start it back up.

Seriously, I just wanted to point out that it is not always the case, even with a perfectly tuned carb, and that it can be used as a diagnostic tool.
I have to admit messing with you is always fun, but you are making it too easy now.

Till next meet....

[DCUK Martin]

A healthy PRV pulls too much vacuum for the compression spring on the throttle cable alone to reliably close the throttle plates

Huh? The point of a butterfly valve is that the force required to open/close it is independent of the pressure/flow going through it.

[content22207]

Oh grow up -- K-Jetters have had to tighten their throttle return springs too.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Curious isn't it: I was kicked out of Mike Lund's EFI thread (posts deleted), yet Martin is allowed to come into a thread clearly labeled "CARB" / "Carbed Car" and start slinging disparaging comments around....

I've done a few more carb conversions than Martin has -- chances are I know better than he does what works in these applications (especially Motorcraft specific conversions).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

Just FYI, the fittings on the new fuel pump I bought are 3/8" NPT. Bill's carrier has 1/8" NPT fittings. I will seek adapters at the hardware store. This will make the pump sit a bit higher, so it will be necessary to lower the carrier inside the boot a little bit.

Farrar

[DCUK Martin]

Oh grow up -- K-Jetters have had to tighten their throttle return springs too.

Yahuh, but it has bugger all to do with engine vacuum, oh master of erroneous (and childish) comments.

[Ashyukun]

Just FYI, the fittings on the new fuel pump I bought are 3/8" NPT. Bill's carrier has 1/8" NPT fittings. I will seek adapters at the hardware store. This will make the pump sit a bit higher, so it will be necessary to lower the carrier inside the boot a little bit.

Farrar
I had a similar problem with the pump that I got- I needed a 1/8" NPT barrel adapter to put it in place of the one I took out. It's possible that Bill had installed one in the old one too, but it looked like the old pump had a male 1/8" NPT fitting on it vs. the new pump's female one.

[content22207]

Airtex E8012 has female 1/8 NPT threads on both ends.

This is the order of components that made your original fuel pump and carrier:
3535

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

The reducing bushing works fine on the bottom. For the top, I simply used a straight barb and an elbow fitting:

3543

Farrar

[stevedmc]

What kind of failures are you experiencing? My epoxy killed pump just sat there like a bump on a log (didn't do anything). I lost one pump to what appeared to be bearing failure (jumped around so much it was difficult to hold in my hand). It is possible my third pump did not die (the car bogged down just as Louie and I were passing an off ramp, so we zipped off the interstate, into the gas station at the top, and threw the spare into the tank -- it could have been a gust of headwind).

The pump currently in my tank got me Alabama to New Orleans, then went to/from Lexington, Pennsylvania, and DC twice, but I won't hesitate for a second to throw my spare in there if necessary.

Bill Robertson
#5939

The Airtex unit had been making some strange noises the past few weeks. My guess is it was on its way out. Yesterday, 150 miles from home, it started going out intermittently. The car would stall and then start back up (sometimes). I managed to limp around for 15 minutes while I drove around Jackson, MS looking for a place with shade to do some work. I ended up in the ghetto and decided to limp to the entrance ramp to the interstate. Luckily it got that far and then the fuel pump stopped for good.

I honestly spent more time driving around looking for shade then it actually took me to do the work. Since I carry a spare fuel pump I just swapped it out and was back on the road again. After taking a lunch break, and stopping at Autozone to get a new spare (made in china part), I was on my way again.

I think I purchased my spare Airtex unit at Advance Auto. Unfortunately I don't have my receipt (this is why I prefer Autozone) so it might be difficult to get it replaced. I bought the Adance Auto pump less than a year ago, installed it in the car, and kept the original as spare. I'm going to go to the store I bought it from and see if they will honor the warranty without a receipt.

Even if I didn't have a spare fuel pump with me the day still wouldn't have been too bad. I could have stopped at any auto parts store and gotten a fuel pump capable of filling my carburetor bowl. If I had been depending on a K-Jet fuel system I would be stranded in Jackson until a vendor could overnight me a part.

[sean]

Even if I didn't have a spare fuel pump with me they day still wouldn't have been too bad. I could have stopped at any auto parts store and gotten a fuel pump capable of filling my carburetor bowl. If I had been depending on a K-Jet fuel system I would be stranded in Jackson until a vendor could overnight me a part.

So carb owners should expect a 1-2 year lifespan, or even less in your case, out of a fuel pump and carry a spare just in case? Just curious as you and Farrar seem to be having pump woes but I've never heard Bill talk about pumps failing like this when promoting the carb kits.

[stevedmc]

So carb owners should expect a 1-2 year lifespan, or even less in your case, out of a fuel pump and carry a spare just in case? Just curious as you and Farrar seem to be having pump woes but I've never heard Bill talk about pumps failing like this when promoting the carb kits.

Keep in mind our fuel pumps cost about $40 and can be purchased at nearly any parts store. K-Jet pumps cost between $90 and $160. For the price of our pumps we can afford to carry a spare.

It isn't carb owners than should expect a 1-2 year lifespan on the fuel pump. It is Airtex owners who can expect a 1-2 year lifespan on the fuel pump. This is why I am switching to another brand.

[sean]

Keep in mind our fuel pumps cost about $40 and can be purchased at nearly any parts store. K-Jet pumps cost between $90 and $160. For the price of our pumps we can afford to carry a spare..

I wouldn't care if carb pumps were free and stock pumps were $300. If I get 15-20+ years outof a stock pump I'm pretty happy I don't have to make fuel pump replacement a random maintenance item.


It isn't carb owners than should expect a 1-2 year lifespan on the fuel pump. It is Airtex owners who can expect a 1-2 year lifespan on the fuel pump. This is why I am switching to another brand.

So it seems it is JUST this this pump that is the issue, was this the recommended pump? Curious that both you and Farrar were using them if they're substandard. Does Bill need to post a carb kit recall?

[stevedmc]

I wouldn't care if carb pumps were free and stock pumps were $300. If I get 15-20+ years outof a stock pump I'm pretty happy I don't have to make fuel pump replacement a random maintenance item.



So it seems it is JUST this this pump that is the issue, was this the recommended pump? Curious that both you and Farrar were using them if they're substandard. Does Bill need to post a carb kit recall?

I want to respond to this so much but I'll shut up and let Bill speak for himself.

[sean]

I want to respond to this so much but I'll shut up and let Bill speak for himself.

Bahahahahahaha, you wanted to respond but by saying you won't respond!?!? By all means, you dont need bills permission to speak I'm just asking serious questions. Future carb owners should know if their are issues with the kit. You've been happy with yours but have experienced some issues, why not let potential carb owners know. The carb kit is not infallible.

[stevedmc]

I was just going to say that Bill has demonstrated his desire to make improvements to his kits as he continues to develop them. In some ways each kit is a little better than the one before it as he continues to tweak things. I cant speak for another person but I wouldn't be surprised if another fuel pump finds its way into the kits.

This of course depends on a lot of things. I'm going to start testing another fuel pump soon. For all I know the replacement could be better or worse. Lots of factors could be causing the problem such as ethanol, driving on a low tank of gas (I normally buy gas when I have 4 gallons left), or a bad fuel pump as I suspect.

Only time will tell but testing a different pump is a good place to start for determining the problem.

[sean]

I was just going to say that Bill has demonstrated his desire to make improvements to his kits as he continues to develop them. In some ways each kit is a little better than the one before it as he continues to tweak things. I cant speak for another person but I wouldn't be surprised if another fuel pump finds its way into the kits.

This of course depends on a lot of things. I'm going to start testing another fuel pump soon. For all I know the replacement could be better or worse. Lots of factors could be causing the problem such as ethanol, driving on a low tank of gas (I normally buy gas when I have 4 gallons left), or a bad fuel pump as I suspect.

Only time will tell but testing a different pump is a good place to start for determining the problem.

IMO, darn good response to to my initial query. Is it recommended to carry a spare pump when bill installs a kit?

[Soundkillr]

Bahahahahahaha, you wanted to respond but by saying you won't respond!?!? By all means, you dont need bills permission to speak I'm just asking serious questions. Future carb owners should know if their are issues with the kit. You've been happy with yours but have experienced some issues, why not let potential carb owners know. The carb kit is not infallible.

Very true. Another perfect example of a fuel delivery issue, further proving my point that no product is a fail safe. That is why I would never praise the almighty carb as a end all be all solution. Youre still prone to problems.

[stevedmc]

No one has ever recommended that I carry a spare fuel pump. J made my own decision based on Bill and Farrar's honesty. Plus a spare fuel pump is cheaper than some of the tools I carry with me anyway.

If I was stranded without a spare fuel pump I still could have limped to Autozone by manually filling the bowl. You can't do that with Kjet.

[Soundkillr]

If I was stranded without a spare fuel pump I still could have limped to Autozone by manually filling the bowl. You can't do that with Kjet.

That isnt my point. My point is you can face issues either way, touting one method is better than another gets you no where. Its just as pointless ad me saying kjet wont deisel when I shut it off. I can pick pros and cons of both fuel delivery methods.

[stevedmc]

I never said carburetors are fail safe. What I am saying is there is a lot less to go wrong. My fuel system makes it possible for me to survive on my own. I don't need any special part that has to be ordered. I could have a complete fuel system failure including fuel pump, PVC valve, fuel filter, ripped fuel line, clogged jets, broken accelerator pump, etc. and still be able to get parts in any city big enough to have a parts store. Shoot, the carburetor itself could get zapped by aliens with a ray gun and I would still be able to get another carburetor locally. The only thing special about my fuel system is the intake manifold.

[Soundkillr]

Ok steve thats great for you, and im sorry you had issues with kjet. For the record I have owned my car for 13 years and have only had one fuel issue. I dont care if a carb owner fills a fuel bowl every 15 feet it does not make a fuel problem less of problem. You dont directly say a carb is fail safe. You dont have to. Its apparent with snide comments bashing kjet in every other thread. Ive said it again, to each his own, but kjet is reliable, and to assume its garbage falls along the same assumption that carbs are outdated junk.

[stevedmc]

Ok steve thats great for you, and im sorry you had issues with kjet. For the record I have owned my car for 13 years and have only had one fuel issue. I dont care if a carb owner fills a fuel bowl every 15 feet it does not make a fuel problem less of problem. You dont directly say a carb is fail safe. You dont have to. Its apparent with snide comments bashing kjet in every other thread. Ive said it again, to each his own, but kjet is reliable, and to assume its garbage falls along the same assumption that carbs are outdated junk.

I like turtles!

[content22207]

Turtles aren't the issue -- it's cheese. I like cheese.

Looks like it started to rain just in time for me to enjoy some fireworks.

Apparently Airtex pumps are only assembled in the US. Parts themselves are made overseas (Bangladesh?). Airtex made the change about 4 years ago. I wonder if merely sticking already assembled pumps from bulk overseas shipments into individual resale boxes qualifies for a "Made in USA" sticker?

I had excellent success with my first pump, which predated the manufacturing change. Had it not sucked up a piece of Hervey epoxy, I might very well still be using it today.

The problem isn't carburetion in general, it's crappy foreign made fuel pumps in particular. Absolutely no one has had any problems with their Made in USA carburetors. Or their made in USA intake manifolds (especially now that I have a halfway decent welder and a welding jig). No one has had problems with their Made in Israel throttle cable ends. Or their made in USA air filter housings (lids proudly individually hand made in Laurinburg NC).

The sun just came back, so I am going outside now. You all can continue to wallow in sophomoric and juvenile weenie waving without me. I make what I make. Care and attention to detail should be self evident. If you want a conversion, I will gladly make it for you (I may even drive to your house and help you install it, free of charge). Otherwise, there are plenty of vendors who deal in the stock setup who can meet your fuel delivery needs.

Grow up.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[SamHill]

You dont directly say a carb is fail safe. You dont have to. Its apparent with snide comments bashing kjet in every other thread.

I, for one, am above such K-Jet bashing. Good day to you, sir! I SAID, GOOD DAY!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on0W9pO2nwA

[stevedmc]

I, for one, am above such K-Jet bashing. Good day to you, sir! I SAID, GOOD DAY!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on0W9pO2nwA

Thats almost a recreation of the lightning scene in BTTF I.

[Soundkillr]

I, for one, am above such K-Jet bashing. Good day to you, sir! I SAID, GOOD DAY!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on0W9pO2nwA

Eh, at least the kjet car showed up. I saw smoke in the background. Fire perhaps from an alternative fuel car? :)

[stevedmc]

Eh, at least the kjet car showed up. I saw smoke in the background. Fire perhaps from an alternative fuel car? :)

That smoke was exhaust from the first couple of cars smoking the delorean.

[content22207]

Lest anyone think that mechanical fuel pumps are all sweetness and sunshine, this is how I had to drive one of my Lincolns home when it got a hole/tear in its pump diaphragm:
3600
(Engine is a high compression 460, so I traveled slightly less than a mile before the bottle had to be refilled -- it could only empty halfway before it dropped below the neck -- but on a more fuel efficient vehicle I would have traveled nearly two miles).

Steve is correct that the carburetor itself does not need a fuel pump to properly deliver fuel into the engine. Most high winged aircraft don't even have a fuel pump -- gravity alone feeds their carbs.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[nullset]

Cross posted from another thread:

Comparing a BTTF conversion to a carb conversion is either an attempt to be inflammatory, or simply displays significant lack of understanding.

Bill Robertson
#5939

If you actually read the entire thing you'd quoted, you'd see that I was saying exactly that. Start with "If you'll excuse the hyperbole. I know a carb conversion is not nearly as invasive".

I was on your side for once!

[sean]

I was on your side for once!

Bill is so hardcore martyr you can never be on his side. Even he is not on his side, that is how hardcore Bill is! :eek7:

[DMCMW Dave]

Do you typically leave the cover off over the pump like the photo a few pages back? What keeps water from collecting on top of the pump? Does this contribute to the short life you are seeing?

[content22207]

3655 3654

I'm not the one complaining about Airtex pumps. My first one did just fine until it sucked up a piece of Hervey epoxy (can't blame Airtex for that). My second pump did indeed suffer bearing failure. Based on subsequent headwind experiences (DeLoreans do catch headwind), I'm beginning to think my third one was replaced on a whim.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

3655 3654

I plan to install a similar skirt of black vinyl to protect the pump area from water splashing up. Fortuitous timing posting those photos, since I plan to install my solution tomorrow evening after work. :) Thanks!

Farrar

[Ashyukun]

I've been trying for a while to get a boot cover without the nubs on the hose entry points cut off so I can keep one covered vs. having an open one where the return hose would go.

For that matter, I'd love an un-cut boot itself too...

[content22207]

I plan to install a similar skirt of black vinyl to protect the pump area from water splashing up.

Water from below isn't an issue. There is only slightly more than 1/4" clearance between the pump boot and the closing plate. Perhaps a drop or two might get thrown up and manage to be deflected in, but that's it.

That screen keeps my windshield plenum drain from filling the boot up. In a stroke of genius, Lotus put the plenum drain directly above the fuel pump -- gotta love British engineering.

Stock boot covers are a PITA to install, and they shrink, get hard, and split with age. You will bankrupt yourself and drive yourself crazy trying to keep a cover over the pump.

I can pop my pump in and out in seconds. I did just that at Virginia Beach to show someone my tuna can baffle. A screen is so much faster and easier -- and it works just as well.

Speaking of which, a Virginia Beach area owner is running a similar screen, with similar good results.

A New York area owner is too.

When taking your measurements, note that I cut my rubber too short and had to extend it about 1" with Gorilla tape -- the screen does not drop straight down but angles rearward slightly to clear the boot.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

Bills distaste for DMCTalk moderation discussion can be continued here (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1237-Bill-doesn-like-DMCTalk-moderation***Split-from-Bill-s-carb-thread***).

[content22207]

Everybody bitching and complaining about fuel pumps conveniently forgets that you can run a Bosch unit if you want -- you just need to knock the pressure down before feeding it to the carb.

That is exactly how one of my school buses is set up:
3656

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

My vinyl skirt is too long or something; it doesn't quite fit right down in the gap like I thought it would.

But that's secondary to the fact that the new fuel pump as installed is too tall. I will have to figure out another solution. In case other carb users are curious about this particular fuel pump and how I manage it, I will let you know what I cobble together -- er I mean how I solve the problem. :)

Farrar

[content22207]

Take out these two components:

4001

Their only purpose is to position the pickup screen lower in the tank.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

Take out these two components:

4001

Their only purpose is to position the pickup screen lower in the tank.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Once again, I am cursed by being an early adopter.

My pipe cap is not tapped for 1/4" NPT.

There is no bushing in the pipe cap, just the close nipple, which will not come out. I've tried vise-grips and a hammer, and it won't move. Now I have a reducing coupling stuck in the bottom of the pump carrier, and that close nipple stuck in the bottom of the pipe cap.

Grr.

Farrar

[content22207]

There has to be something at the bottom -- a close nipple isn't long enough to go into the pump and extend all the way through the pipe cap.

Bill Robertson
#5939

I just pulled the pump out of #5939. It has a custom piece of brass tubing instead of a collection of brass fittings. I bet yours is identical.

My pipe cap is tapped 1/8 NPT. The tubing is threaded long enough to extend through the cap and into the pump.

Do you have a 1/4 NPT tap? If so, just convert your carrier into a later style (I buy the brass fittings from Lowes -- I like their barrel connectors better than McMaster's).

Bill Robertson
#5939

If anyone wants a spare, this is 1/3 of a parts house price: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NIEHOFF-FS-69-CPA-202-FORD-75-78-CHOKE-PULL-OFF-/190567097198?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5eaf236e

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

There has to be something at the bottom -- a close nipple isn't long enough to go into the pump and extend all the way through the pipe cap.

It looks like this:

4200

Looks just like the picture -- male on both ends. This has 1/8" NPT threads on it.

I managed to remove the coupling between it and the pickup screen, but that bit of pipe is stuck solid in that pipe cap.

Farrar

[content22207]

It's a custom piece of pipe. I cut the threads myself. They are at least twice as long as standard threads, to extend through the pipe cap and still grab the pump.

The pipe cap is just aluminum -- it should spin right off (unless you've managed to get a fitting stuck on the other end...).

If need be, just cut the pipe off and use the stuck fitting to spin the remaining threads out of the cap.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207]

Totally unrelated to Farrar's fuel carrier issues:

If any Motorcraft 2100 user wants a spare, this is 1/3 of a parts house price: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NIEHOFF-FS-69-CPA-202-FORD-75-78-CHOKE-PULL-OFF-/190567097198?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5eaf236e

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Do you typically leave the cover off over the pump like the photo a few pages back? What keeps water from collecting on top of the pump? Does this contribute to the short life you are seeing?

I took off my fuel pump cover after converting and gave it away as part of my trade for an engine. Not having it may have caused my fuel pump failure, but the inside of the fuel tank did look fine upon inspection.

Anyway, I was doing some work in there today anyway and decided to install a fuel pump cover. I picked mine up at the dollar store. I believe I got a package of 25 fuel pump covers for about $2 or $3.

[sean]

Anyway, I was doing some work in there today anyway and decided to install a fuel pump cover. I picked mine up at the dollar store. I believe I got a package of 25 fuel pump covers for about $2 or $3.

Carbariffic!

[content22207]

I reiterate: frame rail pumps are designed to get wet.

Factory design:
4256

Aftermarket design:
4257

I don't like water in my boot, so I rigged up a splash guard for the primary culprit (windshield plenum drain).

The argument that water is causing pump failure is a Red Herring. I think your problems are electrical. Consider this: what has failed on your pump: mechanical drive components or the electric motor itself? Both of my pump failures were mechanical (one sucked up piece of epoxy and one bearing failure), neither of which can be blamed on water exposure. My pump is grounded directly to the battery via two channels: the original frame ground and my ground bus (the frame is attached to the bus, which is itself attached directly to the battery). Electron supply is not an issue.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

Just FYI, the Spectra E8012S, which is made in China and available at AutoZone, comes with female 1/8" NPT threads on the bottom for attaching a fuel pickup filter (included). The pump has a 1/4" hose barb directly on top, so there is nothing to screw in and if you mount it in the boot the hose will stick straight up, but there is enough room to close the access cover under the spare tire well. The pickup filter included with the pump also has a 1/4" hose barb. It's a perfect fit for Bill's "in-tank" solution.

The pump comes with a one-year warranty, so keep your receipt.

Farrar

[stevedmc]

The pump comes with a one-year warranty, so keep your receipt.

You can walk into any Autozone, nationwide, without your receipt and they will gladly swap it out if you bought it from Autozone.

[content22207]

Autozone uses a phone number to look up your purchase history. If Farrar and Steve know each other's phone numbers, they can coordinate purchases so there is always a pump that is less than 12 month old one of the numbers, and use it accordingly if necessary.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Autozone uses a phone number to look up your purchase history. If Farrar and Steve know each other's phone numbers, they can coordinate purchases so there is always a pump that is less than 12 month old one of the numbers, and use it accordingly if necessary.

But do they track anything on the part such as a serial number?

[ramblinmike]

But do they track anything on the part such as a serial number?

No. I worked there.

[Ron]

PEUGEOT - RENAULT - VOLVO 90 V6 ENGINE
SAE
Automotive Engineering Congress and Exposition
Francois Gastinne, Peugeot; M. Laliere, Renault; Stephen Wallman, Volvo
(Pg. 11):

FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
Choice of system - The adoption of the continuous fuel injections (Bosch K-Jetronic) was decided upon the basis of the following major advantages:
1. Direct load sensing by the air metering device which continuously measures air flow through the engine.
2. Simple injector design since the fuel is continuously injected.
3. Fewer and simpler service requirements. Most components can be checked by a fuel pressure gauge.
4. Partial altitude compensation by the air metering device.
5. Less influence on actual air/fuel ratio by the EGR rate since actual flow is measured.

[content22207]

... 3. Fewer and simpler service requirements. Most components can be checked by a fuel pressure gauge....

:hysterical:

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

:hysterical:

[stevedmc]

:hysterical:

:hysterical: is how the AutoZone guys respond when you walk in there asking for KJet parts for a Delorean.

:thumbup: is how the AutoZone guys respond when you walk in there asking for a part for a 1970 Ford F150.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

Alright, saw this Delorean today...what kind of carb and intake manifold setup is this?

Carbs are Webers...just curious what vehicle the manifold and carbs came off of?

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/296944_10150768393400696_671145695_20498505_645624 8_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/292703_10150768393825696_671145695_20498514_145004 6_n.jpg

[Ron]

:hysterical: is how the AutoZone guys respond when you walk in there asking for KJet parts for a Delorean.

:thumbup: is how the AutoZone guys respond when you walk in there asking for a part for a 1970 Ford F150.

:screwy: is how the AutoZone guys respond if they know what the F150 parts are for, after you walk out the door.

:thumbup: is how DMCMW guys (and gals) respond when asking for KJet parts for a Delorean.

:rant: is what Delorians make Steve do.

:drunk: is what I have do when I visit Bill's thread(s), obviously.

:hatchet: is Bill and his Delorean.

[cineman]

Carbs, Italian weber 40 or 46 ;) used also on Porsche

4739
4738

intake are from Talbot Tagora V6 prv, the only factory 3x carb PRV, lot used by the Alpine guys... and very rare !
4740



Alright, saw this Delorean today...what kind of carb and intake manifold setup is this?

Carbs are Webers...just curious what vehicle the manifold and carbs came off of?

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/296944_10150768393400696_671145695_20498505_645624 8_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/292703_10150768393825696_671145695_20498514_145004 6_n.jpg

[Farrar]

4738


4740

Ooooh, that's pretty. :)

Farrar

[stevedmc]

:screwy: is how the AutoZone guys respond if they know what the F150 parts are for, after you walk out the door.

YEAH, you've obviously never gone into AutoZone asking for Ford parts.


EDIT: Just FYI, my local AutoZone guys (and gals) like me. Last time I was part shopping they let me go in the back and pick out my own parts since I was cross referencing some stuff.

[SamHill]

I checked on the price of one of those tripower set ups a year ago... IIRC they wanted $5K for the whole thing. That's a lot of money to use more gas (for a car that wasn't meant to race anyway.)

[Ron]

YEAH, you've obviously never gone into AutoZone asking for Ford parts.


EDIT: Just FYI, my local AutoZone guys (and gals) like me. Last time I was part shopping they let me go in the back and pick out my own parts since I was cross referencing some stuff.
You are right...not to go on a Delorean, as was implied.

Actually, I live in Ford country and with as much as I bill there a month they love me so I rarely have to do any cross referenceing....OMG I just remembered I went back there once and found a Ford (IIRC) coolant hose that would wrap around and go behind the compressor instead of rubbing everything in sight. But I didn't use it on my D. Really, I didn't! ...I gave it and some short pipes to Ben...you can ask him.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

Carbs, Italian weber 40 or 46 ;) used also on Porsche

4739
4738

intake are from Talbot Tagora V6 prv, the only factory 3x carb PRV, lot used by the Alpine guys... and very rare !
4740

Awesome! Thanks for the info!

[content22207]

OMG I just remembered I went back there once and found a Ford (IIRC) coolant hose that would wrap around and go behind the compressor instead of rubbing everything in sight.

Coolant return hose xRef's to a mid 1980's E150 van, but you probably already knew that.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

Stock DeLorean ignition is functional (most of the time), not optimal.

I prefer optimal performance over merely functional performance, just like nearly every other automobile manufacturer in 1981 (and since, to this very day), so:,

Then why do my modern cars not have a carb?

[content22207]

As this thread's title clearly indicates, it is the place for asking questions about installing a carburetor on your DeLorean.

If you have ignition questions, there is a different thread devoted exclusively to that topic.

If you have EFI questions, you can either start an EFI specific thread similar to this one, or perhaps use a existing thread like Mike Lund's failed conversion thread.

K-Jet questions can be asked in the General Forum since K-Jet is not a modification.

Asking questions in the appropriate threads helps keep the forum organized.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

As this thread's title clearly indicates, it is the place for asking questions about installing a carburetor on your DeLorean.

If you have ignition questions, there is a different thread devoted exclusively to that topic.

If you have EFI questions, you can either start an EFI specific thread similar to this one, or perhaps use a existing thread like Mike Lund's failed conversion thread.

K-Jet questions can be asked in the General Forum since K-Jet is not a modification.

Asking questions in the appropriate threads helps keep the forum organized.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Bill Robertson
#5939

As this thread title clearly states "other K-Jet/Carb tangets"

That's cool Bill, you're incapable of answering my question on your contradictory statement. Poor attempt at not answering it though.

[content22207]

With one exception (and a diesel powered school bus) every vehicle I own is carbureted, so I can not answer EFI questions from empirical experience. If you have an EFI question, I recommend posing it to someone with practical EFI experience. If you have a carburetor question, I would be happy to answer it.

Do you have a specific carbureted vehicle in mind that you wish to discuss?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

Do you have a specific carbureted vehicle in mind that you wish to discuss?


HA! No Im done with you not addressing your contradictory statement, not surprised though. Not sure I can take your inability to address it much more. :frantic:

[content22207]

My area of expertise is 1970's domestic automobiles, spilling into the early-mid 1980's. I have a wealth of practical experience in that area, and am fully qualified to answer any question you may have related to it.

I am very inexperienced with anything built after the mid 1980's. Someone with much more experience in that area would be better qualified to answer questions related to it.

It's no different than a dentist forwarding cardiovascular questions to a doctor who specializes in that area, and vice versa.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

YEAH, Bill should like my new signature.

[Ron]

Then why do my modern cars not have a carb?
What the Hell is wrong with you? You are supposed to be a moderator here!

Here in a carburetor thread, one of, if not THE, most visited, explosive threads on DMCTalk and you drop a flame like that!

:flamed:

EVERYBODY RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!! :burnout:

[Ron]

My area of expertise is 1970's domestic automobiles, spilling into the early-mid 1980's. I have a wealth of practical experience in that area, and am fully qualified to answer any question you may have related to it.

I am very inexperienced with anything built after the mid 1980's. Someone with much more experience in that area would be better qualified to answer questions related to it.

It's no different than a dentist forwarding cardiovascular questions to a doctor who specializes in that area, and vice versa.

Bill Robertson
#5939IMHO, that is about the poorest analogy I have ever seen.

Try a dentist and an oral surgeon.
...no that's not good...an oral surgeon has the knowledge but not necessarily the equipment a dentist does.

A medieval barber and dentist works quite well.

[content22207]

Do Ron and Sean (our ostensibly neutral moderator) have serious questions about carbureting a DeLorean, or did they just come in here to hurl invectives around?

Just so there's no misunderstanding: I specialize in adapting 1970's spec Mustang carburetors (2.8 liter V6, Motorcraft 2100/2150 with appropriate size venturis and jets) to stock DeLorean engines. Some owners have asked me to make adapter plates to mount said carburetors to Peugeot 604 intake manifolds they already have on hand (I only have one Peugeot manifold here, and it belongs to someone else -- I'm using it for testing purposes). Other owners have asked me to make complete intake manifolds from scratch.

Most owners also ask me to provide the carburetor itself, but not all do so.

Since every installation is test driven on my own car before I sign off on it, if I provide the carburetor as well as the manifold or adapter, it will already be set up for immediate use.

I do not use any other brand or size (ex: Autolite 4100) of carburetor for DeLorean installation. I may be willing to make an adapter or manifold for a different carburetor, but the owner him or herself will need to source and install the actual carb in that instance.

If an owner wants, I can source all the parts necessary for a complete conversion, including fuel pump and tank baffle, fuel filter and bracket, hoses and clamps, throttle cable adapter and bracket, even a custom air filter lid with factory size stickers.

After a summer hiatus I am again making conversions for owners in Massachusetts (604 manifold), Michigan (604 manifold) and Florida (complete manifold, he already has a suitable Motorcraft carb). If anyone else wants a conversion, this is a perfect time to request it since I am currently concentrating on making these over my many other projects.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

Do Ron and Sean (our ostensibly neutral moderator) have serious questions about carbureting a DeLorean, or did they just come in here to hurl invectives around?

HA! Another great rebuttal to a question you cant answer! Just because Im a mod doesn't me you cant ignore my questions any more than if I was Martin or Ron. Its amazing the lengths you'll take to not respond to folks with questions that aren't kissing your butt.

[stevedmc]

I can source all the parts necessary for a complete conversion, including fuel pump and tank baffle

YEAH, Bill gets a free tuna fish dinner out of this. I have yet to talk to a person who converted and received a baffle with its tuna fish intact.

[Soundkillr]

Do Ron and Sean (our ostensibly neutral moderator) have serious questions about carbureting a DeLorean, or did they just come in here to hurl invectives around?

Just so there's no misunderstanding: I specialize in adapting 1970's spec Mustang carburetors (2.8 liter V6, Motorcraft 2100/2150 with appropriate size venturis and jets) to stock DeLorean engines. Some owners have asked me to make adapter plates to mount said carburetors to Peugeot 604 intake manifolds they already have on hand (I only have one Peugeot manifold here, and it belongs to someone else -- I'm using it for testing purposes). Other owners have asked me to make complete intake manifolds from scratch.

Most owners also ask me to provide the carburetor itself, but not all do so.

Since every installation is test driven on my own car before I sign off on it, if I provide the carburetor as well as the manifold or adapter, it will already be set up for immediate use.

I do not use any other brand or size (ex: Autolite 4100) of carburetor for DeLorean installation. I may be willing to make an adapter or manifold for a different carburetor, but the owner him or herself will need to source and install the actual carb in that instance.

If an owner wants, I can source all the parts necessary for a complete conversion, including fuel pump and tank baffle, fuel filter and bracket, hoses and clamps, throttle cable adapter and bracket, even a custom air filter lid with factory size stickers.

After a summer hiatus I am again making conversions for owners in Massachusetts (604 manifold), Michigan (604 manifold) and Florida (complete manifold, he already has a suitable Motorcraft carb). If anyone else wants a conversion, this is a perfect time to request it since I am currently concentrating on making these over my many other projects.

Bill Robertson
#5939


Just so I understand, its ok for you to go into other threads and start jabbing about better fuel options or ignition options or jabs about how quickly you can access a slave cylinder, or how you can easily read casting numbers because you have simpler exhaust or how ford engineering trumps anything and everything, even when the original topic had nothing to do with any of those things, yet when sean makes a jab its suddenly unacceptable?

[sean]

yet when sean makes a jab its suddenly unacceptable?

To be clear, I aint jabbing but was confused by his inconsistency when he stated


I prefer optimal performance over merely functional performance, just like nearly every other automobile manufacturer in 1981 (and since, to this very day), so:,

To me this is counterintuitive when you consider Bills history of products he markets. I simpley asked why then is my 2010 car not carbed when he states that he prefers "Optimal preformance, just like nearly every other automobile manufacturer in 1981 (and since, to this very day)" So I dont think the logic is to hard to follow:

Bill prefers "optimal performance"
Bill prefers Carbs
Bill prefers optimal performance just like auto manufactures do to this very day
Auto manufactures of this very day should prefer carbs for their optimal performance. Right?

It seems Bill views me asking him a question as Admin abuse and a true spit in his face act so he choose to not answer my questions, much like most any Martin or Ron asks, so really I feel in good company over all!

[content22207]

HA! Another great rebuttal to a question you cant answer!

I was not present at any meetings where manufacturers discussed fuel delivery decisions, so anything I could say would be conjecture at best.

The historical record shows that both carburetion and Bosch mechanical fuel injection were eventually phased out, and neither is used in new consumer car production now (NASCAR still uses carburetors in its off road applications), so whatever manufacturers' reasoning was likely was similar in both instances.

The historical record does show that carburetion continued to be used in new consumer car production for many years after Bosch mechanical fuel injection was discontinued, whatever conclusion can be drawn from that.

The historical record also shows that Bosch mechanical fuel injection was never used as widely as carburetion (not a single American or Japanese manufacturer ever used it), whatever conclusion can be drawn from that.

Regarding the Motorcraft 2100 series in particular: last model year for its use was 1991 (V8 Jeeps). That carburetor had a 35 year production run, from its 1957 introduction as the Autolite 2100 (the company was not owned by Ford at that time -- Ford did not buy Autolite until 1961), through the moderate 1972 Motorcraft redesign/rebadging, to the late 1980's addition of electronic throttle feedback and active idle control. It was an extremely widely used carburetor (Ford used it worldwide; AMC, Chrysler, Packard, and Studebaker used it stateside). Millions of original castings are still in existence. New parts for repair or rebuild are inexpensive and readily obtainable. Any owner considering a Motorcraft 2100/2150 for his or her DeLorean certainly need not fear owning a rare or unusual carburetor.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Byrne Heninger also uses Motorcraft 2100's for his carb conversions.

One might think that Sean's antipathy towards carburetion would have subsided somewhat after Byrne started doing conversions, especially given all Byrne has done for Sean over the years. That Sean is even more aggressively antagonistic now is mystifying to me at least.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Soundkillr]

Byrne Heninger also uses Motorcraft 2100's for his carb conversions.

One might think that Sean's antipathy towards carburetion would have subsided somewhat after Byrne started doing conversions, especially given all Byrne has done for Sean over the years. That Sean is even more aggressively antagonistic now is mystifying to me at least.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Yea, and pilot singled out jesus. johnsons had kennedy killed, and so on....:)
Just because he ran with him doesnt mean he agrees with his business practice. One could even conclude sean is on his own now for a reason...

[sean]

One might think that Sean's antipathy towards carburetion ...

One might think that my repeated statements that I think carbing is fine for folks who want it would be enough for you to get it through that thick martyr head of yours but it seems you ain't happy unless you're feeling Admin abused :confused:. You sure do think a lot of yourself if you think I really give a shit who's car you convert. I've said it before(multiple times) and I'll say it again even though it's like talking to a wall with you:

I like Bill the person
I think DeLoreans that are carbed are fine with me
Internet Bill can be a real pain in the ass for some reason and not as fun to be around as Bill in person.
I don't think folks with a minor fuel problem should be told they need a carb kit to make all their fuel problems go away.

My view has NEVER changed but your bipolar internet persona has interpreted my view as something different from day to day.

I'm curious now how you're gonna twist this, probably just ignore it and talk about how you've been threatened to be exiled and burned for your carb believes or something like that.:bang:



, especially given all Byrne has done for Sean over the years.

Since you know even less about this than you think, future posts by you on the topic will be removed. Repeat offend and moderation will be in order.

[content22207]

My user ID only gets revoked when I PM you to fuck yourself (last time at least).

I have been *TEMPORARILY* banned three times over the years -- does any other user share that distinction?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207]

Where did my temporarily suspended 3 times post go? It *IS* a historical fact (on the old site Sean publicly stated that he could count on one hand the number of users he has suspended more than once -- it was in the old carburetion thread, right about the time Steve Rice was either threatened to be suspended or actually suspended, can't remember which).

For the record, I have only been banned for talking back to the moderator, not for anything mentioned above.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

Where did my temporarily suspended 3 times post go? It *IS* a historical fact (on the old site Sean publicly stated that he could count on one hand the number of users he has suspended more than once -- it was in the old carburetion thread, right about the time Steve Rice was either threatened to be suspended or actually suspended, can't remember which).

For the record, I have only been banned for talking back to the moderator, not for anything mentioned above.

Bill Robertson
#5939
This correct to my memory.

[content22207]

I just PM'd my eMail address to the owners I am working with (can you really read those BTW?), so if you want to suspend me for a fourth time, go ahead....

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

I'm curious now how you're gonna twist this, probably just ignore it and talk about how you've been threatened to be exiled and burned for your carb believes or something like that.:bang:
.


I just PM'd my eMail address to the owners I am working with (can you really read those BTW?), so if you want to suspend me for a fourth time, go ahead....

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dang man, right on queue. This is why I wanted to call you or you call me, something is worse in your eyes than it is mine. Anyway, call if you like I ain't mad except for that thing you pmd me about but otherwise in my eyes you and I are cool.

Also, Mike and I have NO access to PMs other than our own.

[content22207]

I'll be damned -- my password still works. This must be the new & improved kinder and gentler Sean in action.


Just so I understand, its ok for you to go into other threads and start jabbing about better fuel options or ignition options or jabs about how quickly you can access a slave cylinder, or how you can easily read casting numbers because you have simpler exhaust or how ford engineering trumps anything and everything, even when the original topic had nothing to do with any of those things, yet when sean makes a jab its suddenly unacceptable?

You ignorant fool. If you had been paying even a modicum of attention you would know that Dan is going to convert to carburetion. Those of us with carburetors do like to banter among ourselves about how much easier our engine access is than K-Jetters. If you don't like it, stop eavesdropping on our conversations.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

You ignorant fool. If you had been paying even a modicum of attention you would know that Dan is going to convert to carburetion.I have one of those serious questions you were talking about. I think it's serious when you call someone an ignorant fool-
Where in Soundkillr's post or in your (full) post that he quoted from is Dan mentioned?

Anybody?

[content22207]

This is the thread "Soundkillr" (name please...) was referencing, Post #5 in particular: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1438-Volvo-Ignition-Distributor-Versus-DeLorean-Ignition-Distributor

The questions Dan has been asking in the HEI thread make it seem that he is seriously considering whether or not to modify his ignition along with fuel delivery.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

???#5 is not your post???
If you meant #6, the only thing he mentioned that you also said in that post is about reading serial casting numbers, but nothing about exhaust being simpler to do because of exhaust like he said. And even that was on topic/subject. Oddly enough, all your posts, jabs or not, are on topic/subject in that thread.

Where are the other 5-6 things (not related to the topic) he was referring to?
I really don't see how, Bill.
Maybe you need to rethink this?

[content22207]

I don't need to rethink a damn thing.

This thread was started by Steve, but I'm pretty sure he had me in mind (if I'm wrong, Steve has only to say the word and I will stay out of it).

The HEI and Volvo Distributor threads are mine -- I can say anything I want in them.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Soundkillr]

Bill your the fool who is so one sided about everything! You offer some good advice in some threads but it is almost always followed by a snide remark or childish look what I can make better comment. If you are called out on it, then suddenly you lable that as a purist or someone who is out to get you.i dont give a damn whos post it was or who is converting what, othere people can read the same damn thread and get just as sick of it, I was mearly pointing out when its done to you, dare I say, you cant handle it. Just like you post bs in others threads, they or even I have the right to do the same. You really make yourself look stupid when you come off swearing about everything when you get angry. Relax you will live longer. Sound familiar? Name by the way is Ben Davis, want my address as well?

[Soundkillr]

I have one of those serious questions you were talking about. I think it's serious when you call someone an ignorant fool-
Where in Soundkillr's post or in your (full) post that he quoted from is Dan mentioned?

Anybody?

And there wasnt a quote Ron. Bill is just grasping at this point. "I am a fool who isnt paying attention and eavesdropping on conversations." This is what I mean when I say he cant answer call outs. This is a open forum, I can read and post what I want, and bill proves this practice every day. If bill had shown a modicum of attention he would note several other examples on my quote, not just one about casting numbers. By the way that was just a small list of examples. I could have filled the page.

[content22207]

What do you want to call me out on:
- That my DeLorean is faster than a stock DeLorean? I stand guilty as charged.
- That my DeLorean is more reliable than a stock DeLorean? I stand guilty as charged.
- That my DeLorean is easier to maintain than a stock DeLorean? I stand guilty as charged.
- That my DeLorean has fewer dollars invested in it than most DeLoreans? I stand guilty as charged.
- That I drive my car more than most DeLorean owners do, no matter the weather (even through actual tornadoes)? I stand guilty as charged.
- That I am more willing to reinvent whatever Lotus designed wrong than most DeLorean owners are? I stand guilty as charged.
- That I have never accepted a single penny, beyond materials reimbursement (not labor), for assisting other DeLorean owners with their cars? I stand guilty as charged.
- That I am willing to travel, free of charge, to other DeLorean owners' houses to help them work on their cars in their own driveways? I stand guilty as charged.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Soundkillr]

What do you want to call me out on:
- That my DeLorean is faster than a stock DeLorean? I stand guilty as charged.
- That my DeLorean is more reliable than a stock DeLorean? I stand guilty as charged.
- That my DeLorean is easier to maintain than a stock DeLorean? I stand guilty as charged.
- That my DeLorean has fewer dollars invested in it than most DeLoreans? I stand guilty as charged.
- That I drive my DeLorean more than most DeLorean owners do, no matter the weather (even through actual tornadoes)? I stand guilty as charged.
- That I am more willing to reinvent whatever Lotus designed wrong than most DeLorean owners are? I stand guilty as charged.
- That I have never accepted a single penny, beyond materials reimbursement (not labor), for assisting other DeLorean owners with their cars? I stand guilty as charged.
- That I am willing to travel, free of charge, to other DeLorean owners' houses to help them work on their cars in their own driveways? I stand guilty as charged.



Bill Robertson
#5939


Yea bill no big deal, those are all your opinions except the last ones. Im not going to enter a performance debate with you right now, but am willing to bet a kjet car with exhaust mods similar to yours will equal you in power. As it has been pointed out to you before, get a dyno and some balanced cars (fuel delivery aside) and dyno them. Or line them up on a track. I would be happy to.volunteer my car but that wouldnt be fair...
As far as calling you out, you have conveniently ignored the point again. You constantly jab at people, whatever the reason, and my initial post was simply bringing light to it. You still have not answered the question. Why can sean not bring up a question or a point, and you can?

[stevedmc]

YEAH, if Sean didn't suck so much he would start deleting posts with stupid personal attacks so we can get back to talking about carbs and the stunning waitress at iHop.

[content22207]

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?95-Ask-Bill-about-carbing-a-DeLorean-and-other-K-Jet-Carb-tangets&p=17812&viewfull=1#post17812

As stated, I can not speak for any manufacturer -- if you want to know what they were/are thinking, I suggest asking them directly.

I can speak to the historical record, which shows carburetion in wide scale use before and after K-Jet use, whatever conclusions you want to draw from that.

There is no agreed upon answer on the internet for what the last production car with a carburetor was, but all the various answers put it 1994-1995. The last production vehicles with a Motorcraft 2100 carburetor in particular (the carburetor I use) were 1991 V8 Jeeps.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

YEAH, I forgot to mention my generator has a carburetor on it. We are having a storm this weekend and I'm ready in case the power goes out.

I put fresh gas in it, sprayed a little carb cleaner in the air intake, and the thing started up first try. I love carbs.

[content22207]

As far as calling you out, you have conveniently ignored the point again. You constantly jab at people, whatever the reason, and my initial post was simply bringing light to it.

I'm up to page 15 already and not seeing it: http://dmctalk.org/search.php?searchid=54141

Page 4: I do make a jab at Justin, a friend I have known for many years, about buying a Ford. It's kind of like the jabs you made at Sean in the Bad Moderator thread, except that I only did it once.

I do make multiple comments in Farrar's blog thread, mostly about his neverending fuel pump problem (for example, on Page 5 I threaten to drive to New Orleans and install the damn thing for him). I know Farrar even better than I know Justin, and Farrar's neverending pump problem has gone on for ever....

The Ignition Coil Questions thread started veering off course, so I voluntarily split it to an HEI thread myself.

This thread and the HEI thread are of course full of people telling other people that they are full of shit (mostly Ron and Martin saying that to Steve and I, and vice versa). If you don't like it, don't read them. The post history does show that we keep those arguments in these two threads.

Anyway, as stated, I am more than halfway through rereading every single post I have ever made on this forum, and I just can't find actual instances of what you are intimating. Are you sure you haven't confused me with someone else?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

This thread and the HEI thread are of course full of people telling other people that they are full of shit (mostly Ron and Martin saying that to Steve and I, and vice versa).

YEAH, I got tired of reading Ron's opinion so I made a final post with what I experienced saying I wouldn't talk about it with Ron anymore. People can decide what they want to believe based on what happened to me or based on Ron's theories. The reality is I am not going to change Ron's mind and he isn't going to change mine. To think otherwise, after pages of debate would be foolish.

Anyway, we agreed to disagree and left it at that. On another thread he gave me some good advise and I'm thankful. He's probably a great guy and I hope to meet him and several others at DCS.

A debate is just a debate and nothing more. Its no reason to make enemies or get feelings hurt. I hope no one has any harsh feelings towards me or anyone else because of the debates that go on.

At work we have debates all the time, jokingly call each other morons, and at the end of the day we are all still friends. What sucks about the forums is we don't have the same type of interaction as in person and people seem to get bent out of shape when someone disagrees with them.

Relax guys. We are just here to talk about a crappy little car that all of us love, despite our differences.

[content22207]

a crappy little car

Any further comment from me would be redundant.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Any further comment from me would be redundant.

Bill Robertson
#5939

YEAH, It would cause a huge debate if you said it. Although, Ron did say that his car doesn't suck. Maybe he would like to debate this with me. I'm joking people! Just joking!

[Soundkillr]

I'm up to page 15 already and not seeing it: http://dmctalk.org/search.php?searchid=54141

Page 4: I do make a jab at Justin, a friend I have known for many years, about buying a Ford. It's kind of like the jabs you made at Sean in the Bad Moderator thread, except that I only did it once.

I do make multiple comments in Farrar's blog thread, mostly about his neverending fuel pump problem (for example, on Page 5 I threaten to drive to New Orleans and install the damn thing for him). I know Farrar even better than I know Justin, and Farrar's neverending pump problem has gone on for ever....

The Ignition Coil Questions thread started veering off course, so I voluntarily split it to an HEI thread myself.

This thread and the HEI thread are of course full of people telling other people that they are full of shit (mostly Ron and Martin saying that to Steve and I, and vice versa). If you don't like it, don't read them. The post history does show that we keep those arguments in these two threads.

Anyway, as stated, I am more than halfway through rereading every single post I have ever made on this forum, and I just can't find actual instances of what you are intimating. Are you sure you haven't confused me with someone else?

Bill Robertson
#5939

Im not confusing you with anyone. In the past there have been posts that are more on the tone of my car is better because x or look what I can do because of x. Or engineering sux because of x and I made it better with y. Its your tone and attitude. Call outs aside, most people dont take such a definsive approach as you. If I had a dollar for every time you have said deloreans suck and ford is better I could buy all of sedoc a meal at outback. I wont cite example with quotes, to much work. As far as ignoring your comments, I do it all the time, but in this case had an honest question as this seems to be a constant debate tactic. But I was a fool for my questioning the all knowing bill. :)

[content22207]

For the umpteenth time, Sean's question was answered: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?95-Ask-Bill-about-carbing-a-DeLorean-and-other-K-Jet-Carb-tangets&p=17812&viewfull=1#post17812.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Soundkillr]

And for the umpteenth time, not before you knocked on sean for whatever reason. That reason is why I asked why he is not free to ask questions or counterpoint without an attack. Then obviously you called me out for an acurate observation. Part of me wants to ask: what about deloreans do you like? Perhaps I should start another thread. I have a feeling it would be a short one....

[content22207]

Go back and reread the posts, you ignorant fool. Sean's and my disagreement came *AFTER* that post.

Moreover, our disagreement occurred via PM. The only thing that was posted publicly was the fallout.

You can ask any question you want (be forewarned that a moderator may delete it). I answer all questions I am qualified to answer. I may ask you to clarify what you are looking for first, just as I asked Sean to clarify his question immediately prior to Post #331.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Soundkillr]

Bill I can level myself to your debate tactics. Here goes. Your and idiot. I dont care what order it took place, you just had to bitch about being called out, yet you do it to others all the time. You are a real piece of work. Wanna take it to pm, you know the address, your bob and weave antics are not gonna work. Just keep name calling and perhaps you can fool yourself into thinking you are right.

[content22207]

Your and idiot.

Spell check: You're an idiot.

You explicitly stated in Post #357 that I only answered Sean's question after "knocking" on him:


And for the umpteenth time, not before you knocked on sean for whatever reason. That reason is why I asked why he is not free to ask questions or counterpoint without an attack....

That is factually incorrect. Post #331, the answer in question, occurred *BEFORE* any "knocking." You certainly cared in Post #357 what order events happened in -- your entire argument was premised upon it!

Moreover, if anyone on this forum deserves a little knocking, it is our supposedly neutral moderator. Sean is an asshole (ass whole?) -- period.

(Somebody had to say it...).

You and Sean apparently enjoy a close relationship, based on the inside jokes traded on this forum. That's fine and good, but don't come all unhinged if someone gives back to Sean just a small portion of the shit he dishes out daily. Sean is a big boy, fully capable of fending for himself. Trust me -- I've been fended three times already.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Soundkillr]

Oh forgive my spelling o wise one, im on a small phone with some form of a keyboard. Since you insist on acting like a child I will attempt to meet you on that level. We can continiue this pointless debate through pm. Unlike you I have never been banned and dont care to distract from the forum more than necessary. (To late in this case) I dont care if it was Sean or Ron or Martin or whoever, I asked a simple question, followed by observation. Im not the only one who has pointed this out to you. You are way to quick to post a woes me attitude. I will continue to do my best to ignore that about you. Now re read my post, order does not matter you still come off crying like a little girl. Woe is me! Lets take this debate to pm. Perhaps you need a time out.

[content22207]

I thought I was going to get one, but Sean's backbone went soft at the last minute.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Your and idiot.

YEAH, I love it when idiots don't use proper grammar. Sorry but I couldn't resist.

[Soundkillr]

YEAH, I love it when idiots don't use proper grammar. Sorry but I couldn't resist.

I would insult you, but this keyboard.sux. :)

[stevedmc]

I would insult you, but this keyboard.sux. :)

YEAH, enjoy my new signature.

[Soundkillr]

Thats nice, when I get some time (and lack of a life) ill make one for you. :)

[stevedmc]

Thats nice, when I get some time (and lack of a life) ill make one for you. :)

YEAH, I believe all this bickering takes more time than making a new signature. You suck.

[Soundkillr]

......You suck.
I am in good company! :)

[Ron]

Do Ron and Sean (our ostensibly neutral moderator) have serious questions about carbureting a DeLorean, or did they just come in here to hurl invectives around? ...I don't feel I have been hurling invectives here, but I can, and do it without stooping down to your level or, using sidestepping, selective memory, my emotions, fudging facts, irrelevant tangents, or going into Lala land like you.

Here is every post I have made this thread:




A partially closed choke plate will never cause a warm engine to rev high...
One can never say never around here!

Playing 's advocate-

A partially closed choke plate can indeed cause a warm engine to rev high:
-Set the fast idle cam you mentioned (that's its job).
-Compensate for vacuum leaks (a great test BTW).

=====

They should have named this "$tir$hit" instead of "woot"->
As far from invectives as one can get without ignoring the BS.
I purposely stayed out of your glorious fuel system hacking thread until I saw something that was wrong and tried to point it out, giving two examples. Just to keep things calm and let you know I wasn't stepping on toes -- I told you I was playing devil's advocate and even threw in a smiley... and the tidbit on the end.
Do you say, "Oh yeah....", so that people aren't misled, or, "No, I meant so-n-so", so that I might learn something?
NO, you come off with this sarcastic crud:

If you don't want to take my word for it, simply push the plate closed with your fingers and see what happens.

Bill Robertson
#5939
...and couldn't even get that one unrelated tidbit right!



If you don't want to take my word for it,...
I remember what happened the last time I did that...

That's pretty funny, but it wouldn't be "partially closed" nor prove anything, now would it?

But, since I don't have a hacked fuel system on my D, how about the next time we are at a meet we try it on your car? Now since you said never, I'd choose to do it after you shut your engine off, but while you hit the pedal once (per manufacturer starting instructions mind you), then step back and you start it back up.

Seriously, I just wanted to point out that it is not always the case, even with a perfectly tuned carb, and that it can be used as a diagnostic tool.
I have to admit messing with you is always fun, but you are making it too easy now.

Till next meet....

Here I point out yet another error (or sidestep) and tried to play along despite YOUR invective -- and swing things back on track.
Did you admit a fully closed choke had nothing to do with what YOU or I were talking about?
NO! ...as usual, you come off with something totally unrelated to prove/cover up, if anything.
Even after I explained why I made the earlier post (giving the benefit of the doubt) what did you do?
NOTHING, you just ignored your errors, a chance to prove what you were saying, and that you made misleading statements that less experienced people are reading.

[Do YOU remember what happened 'the last time I took your word for something'? I still have all of those emails and .com posts if you can't. That was a Carb-K Jet tangent if there ever was one and I see below you are harping about historical facts and missing posts. Would you like me to post it all here for the members benefit?]

=======

PEUGEOT - RENAULT - VOLVO 90 V6 ENGINE
SAE
Automotive Engineering Congress and Exposition
Francois Gastinne, Peugeot; M. Laliere, Renault; Stephen Wallman, Volvo
(Pg. 11):

FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
Choice of system - The adoption of the continuous fuel injections (Bosch K-Jetronic) was decided upon the basis of the following major advantages:
1. Direct load sensing by the air metering device which continuously measures air flow through the engine.
2. Simple injector design since the fuel is continuously injected.
3. Fewer and simpler service requirements. Most components can be checked by a fuel pressure gauge.
4. Partial altitude compensation by the air metering device.
5. Less influence on actual air/fuel ratio by the EGR rate since actual flow is measured.
This entire post was straight out a SAE paper, you know, by those people you keep throwing at us along with your conclusions on/of their conclusions.
Not even a possibility of invectives there.
And what was YOUR reaction to SAE papers?:


:hysterical:
Bill Robertson
#5939



======

is how the AutoZone guys respond when you walk in there asking for KJet parts for a Delorean.

is how the AutoZone guys respond when you walk in there asking for a part for a 1970 Ford F150.
is how the AutoZone guys respond if they know what the F150 parts are for, after you walk out the door.

is how DMCMW guys (and gals) respond when asking for KJet parts for a Delorean.

is what Delorians make Steve do.

is what I have do when I visit Bill's thread(s), obviously.

:hatchet: is Bill and his Delorean.
[I didn't bother pasting the other smilies in this "Quote" because I am lazy, except the the one, in case you are so thin skinned that you felt it was one of the "invectives" you were talking about :rolleyes: and wanted to say I intentionally omitted it,...and I kind of like it.]



YEAH, you've obviously never gone into AutoZone asking for Ford parts.


EDIT: Just FYI, my local AutoZone guys (and gals) like me. Last time I was part shopping they let me go in the back and pick out my own parts since I was cross referencing some stuff.

You are right...not to go on a Delorean, as was implied.

Actually, I live in Ford country and with as much as I bill there a month they love me so I rarely have to do any cross referenceing....OMG I just remembered I went back there once and found a Ford (IIRC) coolant hose that would wrap around and go behind the compressor instead of rubbing everything in sight. But I didn't use it on my D. Really, I didn't! ...I gave it and some short pipes to Ben...you can ask him.
Two guys cutting up is all I see here.

======




Then why do my modern cars not have a carb?
What the Hell is wrong with you? You are supposed to be a moderator here!

Here in a carburetor thread, one of, if not THE, most visited, explosive threads on DMCTalk and you drop a flame like that!



EVERYBODY RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!
All I can say here is, you were bent over grabbing your ankles pleading for that one.
BTW- Same applies as to why you are still driving a 1981 vehicle...

======




My area of expertise is 1970's domestic automobiles, spilling into the early-mid 1980's. I have a wealth of practical experience in that area, and am fully qualified to answer any question you may have related to it.

I am very inexperienced with anything built after the mid 1980's. Someone with much more experience in that area would be better qualified to answer questions related to it.

It's no different than a dentist forwarding cardiovascular questions to a doctor who specializes in that area, and vice versa.

Bill Robertson
#5939

IMHO, that is about the poorest analogy I have ever seen.

Try a dentist and an oral surgeon.
...no that's not good...an oral surgeon has the knowledge but not necessarily the equipment a dentist does.

A medieval barber and dentist works quite well.
Did you not see "IMHO"? It means "I My Humble Opinion". That is what people preface what they post with because they see where it may be mistaken as invective.
And that brings us to this post which you just replied after..., without one single word addressing it whatsoever, just another personal attack.

What, I should just ignore what I see as erroneous statements ( when people come here for information)?
Should I just come off with "Bullshit" like you do instead?
Post SAE papers and submit my own conclusions of their conclusions as some kind of "proof", rather than let the engineer's conclusions stand on their own?
Not cut up with one of your minions (no offense Steve), even when they start it with me?

Don't even consider that you are one tiny bit wrong -- Go ahead reread the entire thread looking for some insignificant thing I missed to capitalize on, while ignoring the rest including your invective posts to me (every single one!) showing how hypocritical your response is. Or you can just whip out more vulgarities and/or say you don't have the time or inclination and continue on as usual in your miserable world.
ipotplWy ab

[Ron]

I don't need to rethink a damn thing.

This thread was started by Steve, but I'm pretty sure he had me in mind (if I'm wrong, Steve has only to say the word and I will stay out of it).

The HEI and Volvo Distributor threads are mine -- I can say anything I want in them.

Bill Robertson
#5939
You do need to, just don't want to.
This thread is really a continuation of the .com thread with the same name.
You started those threads but you don't own them [insert one of Bills didn't you read vindictives here] -- anyone can say anything I want in them. ?SO WHAT?

[Ron]

What do you want to call me out on:
...
- That I have never accepted a single penny, beyond materials reimbursement (not labor), for assisting other DeLorean owners with their cars? I stand guilty as charged.
...
I can definitely load you boat on this one, if parts and/or parts never received are included.

[Ron]

As stated, I can not speak for any manufacturer -- if you want to know what they were/are thinking, I suggest asking them directly.Why not do it anyway -- you haven't had any problem posting your conclusions on/of their conclusions before now!

[Ron]

The Ignition Coil Questions thread started veering off course, so I voluntarily split it to an HEI thread myself. Only to avoid your bigger coil alone will improve performance statement(s) -- which you continued to ignore in the split too.

[Ron]

I answer all questions I am qualified to answer.
Bill Robertson
#5939See my previous post.

[stevedmc]

YEAH, I'm going to temporarily unsubscribe from this thread. Someone please let me know when this crap is over.

[Ron]

Now, that was hurling invectives around, SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

CALM DOWN FOR GOD'S SAKE BILL!


======

Just trying to drive everyones point home to him Steve.

Sorry for the bummer!!!

It's over as far as I am concerned.

[content22207]

Ron sucks.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

Ron sucks.

Bill Robertson
#5939
:hysterical:

That's much better! And it didn't hurt did it?

[DCUK Martin]

I answer all questions I am qualified to answer.

Bill Robertson
#5939

...and offer opinions and advice dressed up as "facts" on a topics which which you clearly aren't qualified to comment on...

[content22207]

Martin is a doo doo head.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DCUK Martin]

All I can say here is, you were bent over grabbing your ankles pleading for that one.

:hysterical:

[DCUK Martin]

Martin is a doo doo head.



I think, ladies and gentleman, that this signifies that we've finally beaten Bill into submission. He simply has nothing else to say. :thankyou:

[sean]

I think, ladies and gentleman, that this signifies that we've finally beaten Bill into submission. He simply has nothing else to say. :thankyou:

You had to say it didn't you.....Sigh..

[stevedmc]

I think, ladies and gentleman, that this signifies that we've finally beaten Bill into submission. He simply has nothing else to say. :thankyou:

No. It means he has realized that repeating the same information to you over and over again is pointless.

At least he is saying something different now. I don't argue with you guys because I'm not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mine.

[content22207]

Steve is a rocket scientist.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Steve is a rocket scientist.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Speaking of rocket scientist, I have a buddy who's dad is a rock scientist. He wasn't smart enough for rockets so he had to settle for rocks.

[sean]

Steve is a rocket scientist.

Bill Robertson
#5939

But couldn't figure out kjet?



****ducks**** :D

[stevedmc]

But couldn't figure out kjet?



****ducks**** :D

Smart enough to abandon it. I don't trust 30 year old parts.

[content22207]

Performance upgrade.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MjA4R6t1Fs

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

Smart enough to abandon it. I don't trust 30 year old parts.

Bwhahahahaha, better swap out the rest of the car while you're at it then.


Here's a new sig for ya "K-Jet, beyond rocket science"

[stevedmc]

Bwhahahahaha, better swap out the rest of the car while you're at it then. "

I am. One piece at a time. Door studs are next.

[content22207]

K-Jet just yields miserably slow performance, among its myriad other limitations and drawbacks.

It is an altogether unfortunate fuel delivery system, only used by a small segment of the already small European car manufacturing industry. And even they only used it for slightly more than a decade. What a terrible prank to play on the auto buying public.

Every other car manufacturer in the world wisely kept K-Jet at arms length.

Wise DeLorean owners do the same.

If you want your DeLorean to perform like a 1970's Mustang, at least give it the benefit of Mustang fuel delivery and Mustang ignition. Otherwise, the only person you will ever beat is Granny in a motorized scooter (with a battery running low).

K-Jet -- what a joke.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DCUK Martin]

No. It means he has realized that repeating the same information to you over and over again is pointless.


Good. I've told him many times that repeating an opinion doesn't make it fact.

...

Oh dear. Didn't last long, did he?


K-Jet just yields miserably slow performance, among its myriad other limitations and drawbacks.

It is an altogether unfortunate fuel delivery system, only used by a small segment of the already small European car manufacturing industry. And even they only used it for slightly more than a decade. What a terrible prank to play on the auto buying public.

Every other car manufacturer in the world wisely kept K-Jet at arms length.

Wise DeLorean owners do the same.

If you want your DeLorean to perform like a 1970's Mustang, at least give it the benefit of Mustang fuel delivery and Mustang ignition. Otherwise, the only person you will ever beat is Granny in a motorized scooter (with a battery running low).

K-Jet -- what a joke.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207]

Since it operates above atmospheric pressure, K-Jet technically does not suck -- it blows.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DCUK Martin]

used by ... the already small European car manufacturing industry.

Okay, could we knock this "Europe is an insignificantly small auto market" attitude of yours on the head once and for all? You're completely wrong, and I've only just spent the time to prove it.

A quick look at Wikipedia and guess what?

PSA made more cars in 2010 than Ford, Volkswagen made more cars than GM and Daimler AG made more cars than Chrysler. To these I could easily add BMW, Fiat, Renault, Porsche, Jaguar-LandRover and more. American makers trail a long way behind the Japanese and European makers for volume.

And yes, the US is the world's second largest consumer of automobiles for a single country. But Germany and Spain together account for more cars sold in 2010 than the US. Add to that France, The UK, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Ireland....... and all the rest, and I think you'll discover Europe to be the world's biggest car market.

Care to concede this point and quit making trolling remarks about European cars?

[content22207]

European cars suck.

As I was working on these latest conversions this afternoon, I was reminded just how standardized they are (no small feat when you consider every single component, from the fuel pump carrier at one end to the air filter lid at the other, is made by hand). Whatever anyone wants to say about carbureting a DeLorean, no one can deny that the design has remained *EXTREMELY* consistent over the years:

Number 1 (Farrar 2008 ):
4839

Number 2 (John 2009):
4840

Number 3 (Del 2009)

Number 4 (Jeff 2009)

Number 5 (James 2009)

Number 6 (Bill 2010)

Number 7 (Bob 2010)

Number 8 (Steve 2010):
4841

Number 9 (Sam 2010):
4842

Number 10 (Garen 2010):
4843

Number 11 (Rick 2011)

Slowly but surely this subset of the community is building a standardized knowledge base that owners can draw from well into the future.

BTW: Anybody missing pics -- please send me one.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[opethmike]

European cars suck.


Your face sucks.

[SamHill]

K-Jet just yields miserably slow performance, among its myriad other limitations and drawbacks.


Bill Robertson
#5939

Remember the article I posted about the 81 Vanagon's K-jet 0-60 time of 20 plus seconds? That got deleted.

[content22207]

To be brutally honest, it is probably North American emissions and fuel economy requirements that push K-Jet to its breaking point. Europeans seem to have much better success with it in high compression non-emissions applications.

North American K-Jet teeters on a knife edge of inoperablity. All it takes is one little variable to get out of whack, then the whole system falls down like a house of cards. That is why the General forum hosts a neverending supply of "my DeLorean won't start" threads, and why owners wonder why their DeLorean suddenly stopped running right when it was working perfectly fine yesterday.

These two posts in a current thread (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1293-DMC-stage-1-and-stage-2-engine-differences&p=17975&viewfull=1#post17975) bring up another weakness with K-Jet: injector variation. If all 6 injectors are not spraying equally (sometimes not even spraying at all), then there is absolutely no way your car will ever run right. Carburetion may not be perfect, but it does at least have only one centralized point of fuel delivery (two in the case of my fabricated manifolds, which isolate each venturi bore from the other).

Anyway, I have no desire to engage in yet another K-Jet vs carburetion pissing match. No one can deny that there is a small group of owners who, for whatever reason unique to each, do not want K-Jet. Protestations that "K-Jet can be made to work" and exhortations to "learn to live with it" ring hollow in their ears. They don't want K-Jet -- period. They want a traditional North American carburetor. No one is denying that many owners seem to at least come to peace with K-Jet, and some actually like it, but carb users are not those owners. They are themselves. For a variety of reasons they want a carburetor. Those are the people I work with.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[The Aviator]

BTW: Anybody missing pics -- please send me one.

Bill Robertson
#5939

yeah mine!! lol

[DCUK Martin]

European cars suck.

Very few american cars sell outside of America, but plenty of european cars sell in America. I think you're xenophobic rather than having any real reason to say european cars suck. That and you're sore about the point that Europe is actually a much larger producer and consumer of cars than the US.

BTW K-Jetronic was used in Europe extensively by Ford and I believe Vauxhall/Opel too (GM IOW).

[DCUK Martin]

North American K-Jet teeters on a knife edge of inoperablity. All it takes is one little variable to get out of whack, then the whole system falls down like a house of cards.

That is why the General forum hosts a neverending supply of "my DeLorean won't start" threads, and why owners wonder why their DeLorean suddenly stopped running right when it was working perfectly fine yesterday.


Thanks to you, a lot of people immediately jump to conclusions when "my car won't start" but often it's fuel pump or ignition related - something your carb'd engine has in common.

K-Jet can't go wrong overnight unless there's crap in the system. It's that simple.

The engine will run even if there's trouble with the lambda, cold start and idle systems. THESE ARE NOT PART OF THE INJECTION SYSTEM.

And yes, I'm no fan of the lambda system either and bin it where I can. But if not "teetering on a knife edge" means running rich all the time, I'd prefer to set up engines to run at optimum as designed.


If all 6 injectors are not spraying equally (sometimes not even spraying at all), then there is absolutely no way your car will ever run right.

And your point is.....? you've just said something similar to "the car will never handle right if one of the tyres is flat."



Carburetion may not be perfect, but it does at least have only one centralized point of fuel delivery.


Yeah, it's simpler and worse.



Anyway, I have no desire to engage in yet another K-Jet vs carburetion pissing match.


Oh good, feel free not to reply to this post.



No one can deny that there is a small group of owners who, for whatever reason unique to each, do not want K-Jet. Protestations that "K-Jet can be made to work" and exhortations to "learn to live with it" ring hollow in their ears. They don't want K-Jet -- period. They want a traditional North American carburetor. No one is denying that many owners seem to at least come to peace with K-Jet, and some actually like it, but carb users are not those owners. They are themselves. For a variety of reasons they want a carburetor. Those are the people I work with.


Can you undertake to get involved with other discussions without your soap box then?

[content22207]

K-Jet blows.

Martin is a doo doo head.

Steve is a rocket scientist.

And I've just been contacted by another owner interested in converting to carburetion.

Life goes on.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

Jim Edwards (Flyinglow) is missing his tank stud. If he ever rematerializes, and if he goes through with his planned carb conversion, he won't need any sort of baffle whatsoever.

I only include baffles for other carb converters because I still need to eat.

Bill Robertson
#5939

So you just drop a line down on the tank with a pick up screen on it?

[content22207]

No, I need to eat -- carb converters get the leftover containers (Farrar apparently needs to eat too -- he provided his own baffle).

Fuel in the bowl has its own buffering effect. If the pump sucks air, the venturis will never know it unless the bowl runs dry. You've got slightly less than a mile at low RPM's before that happens.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

Fuel in the bowl has its own buffering effect. If the pump sucks air, the venturis will never know it unless the bowl runs dry. You've got slightly less than a mile at low RPM's before that happens.

Bill Robertson
#5939
Still though, no pickup screen?

[content22207]

4865

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

I suppose that's a filter of some sort?

[Ron]

I like that Bill!

Until I saw you "had to eat", I was going to suggest something similar to one of these fluid conducting swivel joints (http://www.expresshoseandfittings.com/products/resources/HydraulicsInc/HC-100.pdf). (Check out the rotational torque rates p.27)

[content22207]

I like that Bill!

Ron just went down two points on the Suck-O-Meter.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

Ron just went down two points on the Suck-O-Meter.
Other than to say 'That's Punny', I wouldn't touch that line with a 10' pole....:doorpeek:



Hey, I thought I was off of your $hit list:


K-Jet blows.

Martin is a doo doo head.

Steve is a rocket scientist.

And I've just been contacted by another owner interested in converting to carburetion.

Life goes on.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207]

My sincerest apologies -- I did not mean to overlook you:

K-Jet blows.

Martin is a doo doo head.

Steve is a rocket scientist.

Ron sucks (but less than he did yesterday)

And I've just been contacted by another owner interested in converting to carburetion.

Life goes on.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

I suppose that's a filter of some sort?

This question seems to have been lost in the fracas, so I'll answer it: Yes, that is a 300-micron "fuel inlet filter." Some fuel pumps come with the inlet filter, but you can also buy them separately. Although it technically filters fuel, it is not to be confused with the main "fuel filter" which is far finer and sits closer to the carburetor.

Farrar

[sean]

This question seems to have been lost in the fracas,

Naw, I'm not sure bill is accustom to answering my questions ;-/. So it sounds like it is simply the carb kit version of a pick up screen.

[Farrar]

I've just been contacted by another owner interested in converting to carburetion.

I guess you will be wanting this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-66-Mustang-289-V8-Autolite-2100-2V-Carburetor-/330564834176?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf7331380), then. I was going to buy it as a spare, but my wallet can't handle it right now.

Edit: Never mind; wrong size venturi. Good thing I have an eye doctor appointment Thursday.

Farrar

[content22207]

I guess you will be wanting this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-66-Mustang-289-V8-Autolite-2100-2V-Carburetor-/330564834176?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf7331380), then.

I've got a house full of cores already.

That's an Autolite 2100. The Motorcraft redesign has a few advantages:
- Better pulloff
- Better choke plate to choke mechanism adjustment
- Bigger chimneys (you'll appreciate those if you ever need to fill the bowl manually)
- PCV in the carb itself (Autolites did PCV through a spacer between the carb and manifold)
- Spark advance barb (Autolites have a threaded port for a hard line)

Bill Robertson
#5939

Bad news: I just did a cost analysis, and inflation has driven up materials costs for a carb conversion. Bulk aluminum and aluminum pipe for the fuel pump carrier are the largest culprits. Brass fittings are up too, but they were only a couple of dollars to begin with. Fuel pumps have jumped up nearly $15, which is a 33% price hike. Altogether, before going to Autozone to research hose costs, it looks like 5 speed conversions are going cost me slightly more than $1,000 to make. Automatics will be at least $50 higher.

This assumes my aluminum welder isn't going to increase his labor charge too.

Still not a bad bargain when you consider *MY* labor is free (including driving to your house to help you install it, but you will have to feed me).

There is no charge for the tank baffle.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[congerz83]

I think my fuel pump is faulty. The car will die after going down a hill after it levels and starts to incline again. Then it leaves me stranded for about 10-20min until I can roll the car down to a flat surface and let it sit for a bit. It's a real pain in the ass when I'm trying to get to work on time. It's a bigger pain in the ass that I've only had the time to put about two tanks of gas in the car since my carb conversion. If they're cheap I may have to get two. :boxface:

[content22207]

First & foremost: make sure your problem is in fact the pump. You may have to look inside the bowl to make sure. I chased an intermittent problem on one of my church's school buses for months before I finally caught the vehicle red handed on the side of the road with an empty bowl (and even then the problem didn't go away -- I replaced the pump, but it happened again, ultimately turning out to be a bad tank pickup).

You will likely need to carry a volt meter and some wire to diagnose this one. I would run a dedicated ground wire from the battery to the front of the car (don't depend upon the frame ground -- more & more owners are reporting problems with the terminal that grounds the frame to the battery). If your pump does stop spinning, connect it to that ground. And of course check for 12v on the positive side.

Fuel pumps themselves don't usually come & go (mechanical or electrical). Mechanical pumps used to get weak, but they never came back to full strength (they just got weaker & weaker). Electric pumps typically stop working altogether and never come back. Fuel itself used to suffer what was known as vapor lock (gas boiled in the line so the pump was pumping vapor rather than liquid), which would come & go with heat, but that was a problem with engine mounted pumps -- tank mounted pumps can't vapor lock. An electrical problem could come & go, especially if it is caused by a failing solder joint.

Ignition problems definitely can come & go. I'd suspect an intermittent ignition problem before I'd suspect an intermittent fuel problem (an old mechanic once told me that 9 out of 10 vehicle running problems are electrically caused, not fuel related). When your car stops running, do you even have spark? A quick way to check is to clip a timing light on any plug wire, as close to the plug as possible, and watch for it to flash as you crank the engine (if you haven't done this mod, I highly recommend it so you can crank the engine while standing behind the car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQQiUh3lbdQ).

I can't help but wonder how many DeLorean running problems are simply caused by electricity's inability to do its job, some of which is faulty design, and some of which is simple degradation. Owners often are pretty good at checking the positive side of circuits, but tend to neglect the negative side (remember that the electrons actually flow from negative to positive -- that's why you see so many melted fuse blocks, inertia switches, etc).

I notice you haven't posted since August 12. Both of these threads were started since then. You might find them helpful as you run down this problem:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1360-Ground-Bus
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1371-DeLorean-Ground-Schematic

Check out these two consecutive posts: Dan in Florida had persistent electrical problems at his pump until he regrounded the inertia switch: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1328-Frustrating-Fuel-Problem!&p=15168&viewfull=1#post15168.

Dave McKeen also resolved a persistent pump problem by regrounding it: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1010-Fuel-pump-voltage&highlight=fuel+pump+ground.

My pump is connected directly to a 4 gauge ground bus (no inertia switch), which is itself connected directly to the battery -- guaranteed no electrical problems (I've also pulled the RPM relay out of the circuit -- those definitely fail after 12 plus hours of continuous use).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

(if you haven't done this mod, I highly recommend it so you can crank the engine while standing behind the car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQQiUh3lbdQ).

Hey, Bill -- use this video instead! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oELjZdBwe1Y

Farrar

[content22207]

Yeah, something wasn't set right when you filmed that.

This is how Farrar's engine typically starts, when he hasn't screwed something up (literally screwed -- like all great experimenters, Farrar can not resist turning screws, if for no other reason than simply to see what they do): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sFEpe9N1dQ&feature=related.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

Since it operates above atmospheric pressure, K-Jet technically does not suck -- it blows.
Bill Robertson
#5939With that logic carbs suck AND blow, huh?

[content22207]

Oh dear -- Ron just went back up on the Suck-O-Meter.

Hopefully he will behave himself so he doesn't peg the gauge altogether.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

Oh dear -- Ron just went back up on the Suck-O-Meter.

Hopefully he will behave himself so he doesn't peg the gauge altogether.

Bill Robertson
#5939Why is that? ...it is a legitimate question which I'm sure you feel qualified to answer, since it is about your statement, and it's sincere.
So, it is you that goes up on the Suck-O-Meter for not behaving, huh?

[content22207]

I am the evil overlord of alternative DeLorean fuel delivery, commanding an army of 11 minions.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

I am the evil overlord of alternative DeLorean fuel delivery, commanding an army of 11 minions.

Bill Robertson
#5939

I prefer "Provider of the Kool-Aid".

[content22207]

Nobody goes to ComicCon dressed up like Jim Jones.

I want a suit with big wings and an armored plate across my chest.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

Nobody goes to ComicCon dressed up like Jim Jones.


You could be the trend setter, just like carbs!

[Ron]

European cars suck.

Your face sucks.

Dang Bill, he wasn't kidding! ...what happened to you!?!
4916

[Ron]

I want a suit with big wings and an armored plate across my chest.

Bill Robertson
#5939Nevermind...I see you are working from the top down.

[sean]

Dang Bill, he wasn't kidding! ...what happened to you!?!
4916

Looks like he's mutated:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/87/277022248_dfdd3c7831.jpg
4917

[Ron]

So, without K-Jet to "blow" the fuel, carbed engines must suck more than K-Jet engines?

[content22207]

Carb envy appears to be affecting both your logic and coherence. Might be best for you to refrain from speaking publicly about the subject until you have received professional therapeutic assistance.

Not only is my carburetor bigger than yours, but I have a house full of the damn things.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

I have a house full of the damn things.

It's a carbrothel!

Farrar

[sean]

Carb envy appears to be affecting both your logic and coherence. Might be best for you to refrain from speaking publicly about the subject until you have received professional therapeutic assistance.

That's Bill speak for "drink the kool-aid!" :D

[stevedmc]

That's Bill speak for "drink the kool-aid!" :D

I prefer diet cheer wine!

[content22207]

I could trade in my Evil Overlord costume for a dirty raincoat.

"Hey little boy, don't you want a carburetor? All the cool kids have one. Just try one -- if you don't like it, you can always go back."

Bill Robertson
#5939

[SamHill]

Nobody goes to ComicCon dressed up like Jim Jones.


Bill Robertson
#5939

Bill R: How very much I've tried my best to give you a good fuel delivery. But in spite of all of my trying a handful of our people, with their lies, have made our lives impossible. There's no way to detach ourselves from what's happened today.

Lay down your burden. I'm gonna lay down my burden. Shall we lay them down here in Laurinburg?

SamHill: Are we gonna go back to K-Jet?

Bill R. : What's that? I want to see (voices shouting) ... please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please.

It's all over. Sean's argument has been murdered. (Music and singing.) Well, it's all over, all over. What a legacy, what a legacy. What the K-Jet Brigade doin' that once ever made any sense anyway? They invaded our privacy. They came into our threads. They followed us. Stevedmc showed them justice. Martin UK's points are all dead. (Music only.)

Please get us some fabricated manifolds. It's simple. It's simple. There's no convulsions with it. It's just simple. Just, please get it. Before it's too late. DMCH will be here, I tell you. Get movin', get movin', get movin'.

Farrar: Now. Do it now!

Bill R. Please. For God's sake, let's get on with it. We've lived--we've lived as no other people lived. We've had as much of this K-Jet horseshit as you're gonna get. Let's just be done with it. Let's be done with the agony of it. (Minions Applaud.)

It's far, far harder to have lived with K-Jet every day, than to die slow--they'll pay for it. This is a revolutionary conversion. This is not a destructive conversion. So they'll pay for this. They brought this upon us. And they'll pay for that. I leave that destiny to them.


(Voices.)

Bill R. Take our K-Jet wiring from us. We cut it out. We got tired. We didn't commit butchery, we committed an act of revolutionary fuel delivery protesting the conditions of an inhumane fuel delivery.

Nonsense.

(Tape Ends.)

[stevedmc]

Bill R: How very much I've tried my best to give you a good fuel delivery. But in spite of all of my trying a handful of our people, with their lies, have made our lives impossible. There's no way to detach ourselves from what's happened today.

Lay down your burden. I'm gonna lay down my burden. Shall we lay them down here in Laurinburg?

SamHill: Are we gonna go back to K-Jet?

Bill R. : What's that? I want to see (voices shouting) ... please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please.

It's all over. Sean's argument has been murdered. (Music and singing.) Well, it's all over, all over. What a legacy, what a legacy. What the K-Jet Brigade doin' that once ever made any sense anyway? They invaded our privacy. They came into our threads. They followed us. Stevedmc showed them justice. Martin UK's points are all dead. (Music only.)

Please get us some fabricated manifolds. It's simple. It's simple. There's no convulsions with it. It's just simple. Just, please get it. Before it's too late. DMCH will be here, I tell you. Get movin', get movin', get movin'.

Farrar: Now. Do it now!

Bill R. Please. For God's sake, let's get on with it. We've lived--we've lived as no other people lived. We've had as much of this K-Jet horseshit as you're gonna get. Let's just be done with it. Let's be done with the agony of it. (Minions Applaud.)

It's far, far harder to have lived with K-Jet every day, than to die slow--they'll pay for it. This is a revolutionary conversion. This is not a destructive conversion. So they'll pay for this. They brought this upon us. And they'll pay for that. I leave that destiny to them.


(Voices.)

Bill R. Take our K-Jet wiring from us. We cut it out. We got tired. We didn't commit butchery, we committed an act of revolutionary fuel delivery protesting the conditions of an inhumane fuel delivery.

Nonsense.

(Tape Ends.)

Is this supposed to be a parody of a song? Although I am a rocket scientist, for some reason I don't get it.

[SamHill]

Is this supposed to be a parody of a song? Although I am a rocket scientist, for some reason I don't get it.

*sigh*

YOUNG PEOPLE!

http://www.archive.org/details/ptc1978-11-18.flac16

[sean]

Is this supposed to be a parody of a song? Although I am a rocket scientist, for some reason I don't get it.

As less than a rocket scientist I get it even less.

[SamHill]

I prefer "Provider of the Kool-Aid"....



I get it even less

Cliff's Notes:

There was a cult leader named Jim Jones. He decided to take his cult followers down to Guyana. While there, he and his followers committed mass suicide by drinking laced kool aid.

The bizarre suicide was recorded on audio tape, as referenced above.

This is where the phrase "drinking the Kool Aid" comes from.

[stevedmc]

Cliff's Notes:

There was a cult leader named Jim Jones. He decided to take his cult followers down to Guyana. While there, he and his followers committed mass suicide by drinking laced kool aid.

The bizarre suicide was recorded on audio tape, as referenced above.

This is where the phrase "drinking the Kool Aid" comes from.

I thought it was the cult in Waco, TX that drank the Kool Aid.

[SamHill]

i thought it was the cult in waco, tx that drank the kool aid.

young people!

[sean]

Cliff's Notes:

There was a cult leader named Jim Jones.....
I knew who Jones was I just didn't know the transcript of the stupidity.

[Farrar]

"Ask Bill About Carbing A DeLorean And Other Kool-Aid/Cheerwine Tangents"

[Ron]

Carb envy appears to be affecting both your logic and coherence. Might be best for you to refrain from speaking publicly about the subject until you have received professional therapeutic assistance.

Not only is my carburetor bigger than yours, but I have a house full of the damn things.
As stated, I was using your logic...you just don't want to answer the question(s) as it will expose the flaw(s) in your statement(s). Instead you choose to start reaching for those ankles again and attack my intelligence.
Shame on you Bill!!!

I have a 1250 Holley that I could almost drop that puny thing you call a carburetor through.
You need to take a look in my parts shed...all of those 2100 would make your choke plate stand straight up.

P.S. My dog is bigger than your dog.

[content22207]

Jim Jones/People's Temple: Kool Aid (Jonestown Guyana)
David Koresh/Branch Davidians: Fire (Waco TX)
Heaven's Gate: Castration and asphyxiation (San Diego CA)

Don't you people watch the news?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207]

I have a 1250 Holley that I could almost drop that puny thing you call a carburetor through.

One of my school buses showed up with this oversized Holley monstrosity:

4926

I would throw it away, but I'm afraid the City of Laurinburg will arrest me for clogging up the landfill. What was Holley thinking? The little shoebox that replaced it not only starts easier and performs better on the highway, but it only occupies a fraction of the underhood real estate. It also is 10,000 times simpler/more reliable.

My dog passed away after 15 years. Say anything bad about her and I will punch you in the nose. You can say anything you want about a man's wife, or even his truck, but never bad mouth a man's dog.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

Nice try...Take the governor setup off of the Holley and look again, then try it on the highway again, and then put a kit in both and compare complexity again.

Sorry to hear about your dog.
(I should punch you in the nose for stooping so low -- Shame on you Bill!)

[sean]

My dog passed away after 15 years.

If true, I am very sorry. That's a long time buddy.

[content22207]

Nice try...Take the governor setup off of the Holley and look again, then try it on the highway again, and then put a kit in both and compare complexity again.

K-Jetter logic applied to a carburetor.

"It can be made to work. Just tinker with it, spend some money on it, and then try it on the highway."

"I don't want a Holley -- I want an Autolite."

"Your problem is you don't understand Holleys. They are better than you think."

"I don't don't care if Holley's were made of gold -- I want an Autolite instead."

"The bus came with a Holley -- you need to figure out why it's not working and fix it. "

"I don't care about originality -- I want an Autolite."

"I'M running a Holley no problem. In fact my Holley has never given me a bit of trouble. Based on my car's experience, Holleys are just fine."

"Good for you. I'm not telling you what to do with your car. My bus is titled in my name alone, and I want to put an Autolite on it."

"It is cheaper to figure out what is wrong with that Holley and fix it than it is to replace it."

"Saving money is not my objective -- getting an Autolite carburetor on my vehicle is. If it cost extra up front, one time only, that's fine with me. Everybody spends their money on something -- this is what I want to spend my money on."

"You're just too stupid to understand Holley's -- that's your problem."

"Why are you insulting me? If I said I wanted one color interior versus another, would you do that? If I said I wanted an automatic or manual transmission versus the other, would you do that?"

"There you go again. When you are backed into a corner, you change the subject."

"I'm not changing anything. I said in my very first post that I wanted an Autolite. That hasn't changed. I wanted an Autolite then, and I still want one now."

"If Autolites were so great, why did Ford stop using them and switch to Holley's?"

"Emissions. Holley made a carburetor that could limp the 429 through ever tightening government standards when even the 4300 couldn't (I'm going to install a 4100 BTW)."

"Hah! So you are going to go backwards in time rather than forwards."

"In the 1960's, the 4100 worked just fine. Many people still regard it as the best 4 barrel carburetor ever built. The damn things are bullet proof. You can even pull one off a junkyard car and use it as is (I plan to soak and put a kit in mine)."

"Holley's can be just as reliable. The only people who have problems with Holley's are people who don't know how to work on them. A properly cared for Holley can do everything that an Autolite can."

"We're not getting anywhere here. Let's look at it from another angle: whatever else you want to say, a Holley is twice as big. From an access standpoint alone, my Autolite will make engine maintenance easier."

"I can work around my Holley. Why don't you maintain or repair your engine the same way I maintain and repair mine?"

"Because I'm not you. I am me. For my particular needs, an Autolite will simply work best."

"Your lack of intelligence needs?"

"Why are you insulting me again?"

"Why are you changing the subject again?"

"You are the one who said I am stupid, not me. I'm not changing the subject -- I am responding to your post."

And so on ...

I wanted an Autolite 4100 on my bus, so I removed the Holley and put one on. It's my bus -- I can put anything on it I want.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

Don't you people watch the news?

http://chattanoogapulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/huey-lewis.jpg

:biggrin:

Farrar

[stevedmc]

David Koresh/Branch Davidians: Fire (Waco TX)

Come to think of it, I believe I remember reading some conspiracy theory that the US government ran some tests in Waco to see what fire would do to people.

I was an even younger whipper snapper when it happened so I don't remember what was on the news back then. I was too busy watching stuff like Looney Toons.

[Farrar]

Come to think of it, I believe I remember reading some conspiracy theory that the US government ran some tests in Waco to see what fire would do to people.

Now that's funny!

"Hm, I wonder what would happen to human beings if we set them on fire."
"They might burn."
"Maybe not. Didn't someone once say we're 80% water?"
"Hm, maybe. I was pretty blasted in the 8th grade."
"Yeah, me too. Well, let's find out if people burn. Has it been tried before?"
"Uh. I dunno."
[Flash on a portrait of Joan of Arc.]
"Well, let's run some tests."
"Where?"
"Texas. Big place. No one will ever find out."

Farrar

[Ron]

K-Jetter logic applied to a carburetor.
...
Poor Bill, there you go again. When you are backed into a corner, you change the subject.
Why are you changing the subject again?

(The rest of those are not what I have said as you seem to imply -- I don't care what people put on their vehicles, only that you keep making erroneous statements without answering questions about them.)

[content22207]

K-Jet blows.

Martin is a doo doo head.

Steve is a rocket scientist.

Ron just pegged the Suck-O-Meter.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DCUK Martin]

So where in your rant was you saying "I don't know why everyone gets so worked up about these silly little cars and their poorly engineered this, that and everything else. All you need is [insert some nonsense demonstrating lack of understanding of engineering principles*, geography*, demographics*, physics*, Mathematics*, Fuel injection*, any cars that aren't built on a ladder chassis, ride on leaf springs and weigh less than 3 tons*]"? :screwy: (* delete as appropriate)

You're always blameless in these arguments aren't you, Bill, everyone just picks on you, right?

[content22207]

everyone just picks on you, right?

Martin isn't a rocket scientist yet, but he does seem to be getting just a tad smarter (or at least more perceptive).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207]

Are there any carb'd Stage II's?


I'd say that there aren't.


Yet....


And how, praytell, do you intend to achieve this? Purchasing a kit yourself and selling off the parts you don't need?

My dream car: a trashed DeLorean that an owner has spent all his/her resources on a Stage II engine (and perhaps a stainless frame) and now his/her spouse is forcing him/her to sell rather than pour any more money into the damn thing. Throw a burgundy interior in it, Bondo & paint it white if necessary (black accents), then hit the road.

I'll be more than happy to sell the low mileage K-Jet components to anyone interested.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

My dream car: a trashed DeLorean that an owner has spent all his/her resources on a Stage II engine (and perhaps a stainless frame) and now his/her spouse is forcing him/her to sell rather than pour any more money into the damn thing.

There are many of us on here with cars like that minus the Stage II engine and stainless frame. The only difference is we are too stubborn to let our cars go.

Disclaimer: This in no way refers to Bill. He is a mirracle man and has a $10k car with very little cash investment and a lot of labor/love investment.

[content22207]

Not anymore -- #5939's upgraded suspension and a set of new tires just added nearly $1,500 to the price tag....

(I was already at $12K when I bought the new seat covers in 2008 ).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Not anymore -- #5939's upgraded suspension and a set of new tires just added nearly $1,500 to the price tag....

(I was already at $12K when I bought the new seat covers in 2008 ).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Stuff like tires, oil, insurance and taxes don't count.

[content22207]

Byrne doesn't exactly give his lower control arms away, but I am glad I made the investment. OEM arms are as cheap as can be. Upper arms at least have the benefit of wishbone design (and they have a 1/16" plate welded across the top). There is a small plate welded to the lower control arms, but it's for ball joint retention only.

To the best of my knowledge I will be the only owner running both Byrnes LCA's and Ed's outrigger brackets, basically transforming the lower control arms into wishbones. I anticipate extremely little fore/aft movement (when I did a dry run on #2508's suspension the difference from a stock LCA was stunning, even without the sway bar in place).

On the old DMCTalk site Ed posted pictures of his personal car, to which he added trust arms to the LCA's.

When I disassembled #2508's suspension, I discovered that one of the sleeves had separated from the bushing and the LCA had wandered onto the shock tower tube. Same thing happened to Pat Molamphy. Makes me wonder how prevalent that problem is.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

To the best of my knowledge I will be the only owner running both Byrnes LCA's and Ed's outrigger brackets, basically transforming the lower control arms into wishbones.

I would love to see a video of driving with your setup. Honestly, after seeing the video of stock LCAs I am somewhat afraid to drive my car. Shoot, I'm always afraid something is going to break off and kill me, but for some reason I keep on driving the dang thing.

Oh well, at least I don't have to worry about my car catching on fire due to a high pressure fuel system with 30 year old fuel lines. (I had to add this comment to stay somewhat on topic)

[content22207]

Aren't you running a set of Byrne's arms yourself? Did you notice any difference from just the arms alone?

When I was K-Jet (I successfully ran K-Jet for the first two years of ownership, thank you very much), my fuel lines were steel, not plastic:
5174

Bill Robertson
#5939

[opethmike]

Every single K-Jet car (Ferrari 308, Lotus Esprit, Mercedes 300E) I've worked on has the steel lines instead of the plastic/rubber hoses. Interesting that they didn't go that route.

I think you have mentioned it before Bill, but do you know what car your K-Jet engine was out of?

[content22207]

It's a used Renault block, probably from an R30. In the late 80's/early 90's a fellow in Ohio imported them for DeLorean owners who had barbecued their original engine. He advertised in the back of DeLorean World magazine. Darryl Givens has a lady friend with the same engine in her DeLorean.

I gave the fuel distributor to Welmoed, but still have all the other components if anyone wants them.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[joebob101]

Bill - My truck's been in the shop and I've been driving my D for the last few days. It's been so refreshing to drive this useable and fun car. Thanks so much for your hard work to develop the carb kit. The conversion has made my car driveable and reliable.
Now I have to get to work on that fuel gauge. I ran a whole tank of gas through the car and ran out tonight. Had to walk to get some gas.

[Farrar]

I'm with Joe -- until my current woes, the DeLorean was just as reliable as any other car I've driven. I used it as my daily driver for a while after we threw the carb on. I look forward to having that kind of peace of mind again -- knowing that I can only bring a few tools with me and have everything I need for an extended trip on short notice (like if a hurricane comes to town).

Farrar

[stevedmc]

Now I have to get to work on that fuel gauge.

DMCH sells a new fuel sender for just $99. It takes about 5 minutes to install.

[stevedmc]

Aren't you running a set of Byrne's arms yourself? Did you notice any difference from just the arms alone?

I'm running a set of his LCSs but still want things to be better than they have to be. I can't remember if there is any play in them or not. Its those youtube videos that scare me.

[content22207]

Byrne's arms have absolutely no flex themselves (the arm itself does not twist and flex). They are made of fabricated, not folded, 1/8" steel. The spring perch is 1/4" thick. The ball joint sits in a 1/2" thick pad. They are truly massive pieces of hardware, weighing approximately 7 lbs apiece. I am sure a ham handed tow truck driver could use them to pull a car onto his truck with no ill effects whatsoever (none of my tow hooks were structurally sound, so I cut them off. I am going to carry some nylon straps to use on the LCA's -- common practice on older model cars).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Hmm. I'll have to double check things before I spend the $340 on outriggers. I'm thinking about taking the front suspension off anyway to do some painting. I'll pull on the LCAs then and see if they move.

The whole reason I wanted the supports was because the youtube video of a stock suspension scared me.

[content22207]

Scary pictures:

5384

Shortly before the old .com site went down, an owner (in Europe IIRC) had the end of his arm tear off. There is no good way to reinforce that end of the arm -- it can't be boxed in if you still want to be able to change the ball joint in the future.

OEM control arms are made of 16 gauge low carbon steel (slightly less than half as thick as Byrne's sides and top). Byrne also uses high carbon steel. If you're happy using fender quality metal for lower control arms, stick with stock. Otherwise, I can think of no better place to upgrade your car.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

I can think of no better place to upgrade your car.

Cool. I will wait for this part to break next. :)

Farrar

[sean]

Cool. I will wait for this part to break next. :)

Farrar

Only a matter of time, right?

[Farrar]

Only a matter of time, right?

Well, every time I spend money upgrading some part of the car, an entirely different part breaks. If I manage to fix my a/c without a lower control arm snapping, then I might start saving for Byrne's units. However, if I manage to finish the a/c work without some other part of the car breaking, I will just start socking money away for whatever part the car next fails. It's sitting right now, which means something will break the next time I drive it.

Farrar

[sean]

Well, every time I spend money upgrading some part of the car, an entirely different part breaks. If I manage to fix my a/c without a lower control arm snapping, then I might start saving for Byrne's units. However, if I manage to finish the a/c work without some other part of the car breaking, I will just start socking money away for whatever part the car next fails. It's sitting right now, which means something will break the next time I drive it.

Farrar
I get lost on all the things you start "upgrading". Last I heard your carb wasn't working right. Then you got a cold. What is it now?

[stevedmc]

Then you got a old.

I don't understand what this means.

[sean]

Then you got a cold.

I don't understand what this means.

Fixed. Still getting used to this iPad

[Farrar]

I get lost on all the things you start "upgrading". Last I heard your carb wasn't working right. Then you got a cold. What is it now?

I did the H4 headlight mod and ripped out the old K-Jet wiring, and then started doing some other electrical stuff -- recall my cooling fan circuit modification, which I tested but haven't had a chance to install yet because my car was needed for a photo-shoot. Then my fuel pump died and I couldn't find a compatible one and all electrical work stopped. Now the engine misses at idle. (And when I was working on the engine missing at idle, the blower motor switch and dome light fixture broke and the interior lights stay on all the time.)

I have stopped working on the car entirely until I have a weekend to devote to it. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

Farrar

[content22207]

Start with the basics. Everything else is just accessories.

Something has changed at your engine that is now causing it to miss badly at idle -- either ignition, fuel delivery, or the engine itself.

It is highly unlikely the engine itself suddenly went bad. It may be a crappy French PRV, but at least it's not some damn General Motors block.

Check ignition with a timing light. If it flashes consistently on each spark plug, they are fine.

Unless you have verified that they are vacuum tight, disconnect all vacuum operated accessories from the engine (plug their ports of course). You don't need spark advance to set the idle screws, so plug it anyway. Then set the idle screws as mentioned in your blog. I do this every time I set up a new carburetor. Only takes a minute or two. If you can't get a nice smooth idle, break out the carb or brake cleaner -- outside air is still getting in *SOMEWHERE*.

Only after you have your engine idling smoothly again, worry about the rest of the car. You can drive the car without A/C, but A/C is useless if you can't drive the car.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

With all that has been going on, a quick look at a the plugs might not be a bad idea..

[sean]

With all that has been going on, a quick look at a the plugs might not be a bad idea..

It's so easy to think those plug wires are seated when they are not.

[stevedmc]

He could also have a loose wire at the distributor cap. That happened to me a few months back and the car ran like crap.

[content22207]

Jeez -- I can't even post carburetor specific comments in *THIS* thread without a moderator deleting them.

If you want to discuss carburetors, eMail me direct: [email protected].

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207]

Cross posted from the "Efi?" thread (General Forum):


The fact that there are still c-----s being made for the after market is no good reason to install one on a car that didn't have one in the first place. For that matter you can still find buggy whips and vacuum tubes. I don't see a whole big market (or much of a future) for them either. If you want to improve the reliability, and drivability of the Delorean the answer is not to go backwards technologically but forwards and that means EFI. The only way it makes sense is to go down a path that was created by others. It will save time and money. Other than that the best option is to try to keep the original K-Jet system functional. Probably cheaper and faster in the long run, just not as adjustable if you want to customize it. I don't see too many people saying they like the old bias ply tires back as opposed to the newer radial tires either. Most of the time improvements are created and make the previous technology obsolete. C-----s (and bias ply tires) are among them. Arguing over it and saying it makes access easier is no good argument to convert to c--bs. If access is so important converting to EFI solves that too.
David Teitelbaum

Can't speak for anyone else, but in my case multiport injection wasn't an option -- my heads were never drilled for injectors:
5416
(No, I was not about to drill holes in my zero mile crate heads, even if time had allowed).

I have already helped 11 other owners, and currently am in the process of helping 3 more, each of whom is perfectly capable of speaking for himself. Obviously there is a small demand for carburetion within this community (these people contacted me -- I didn't go to them).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

After 420 miles of trouble free driving, I lost another fuel pump today.

This time it was a Spectra (made in china) fuel pump that I installed about a month ago. This marks two fuel pump failures, one being Airtex and the other being Spectra.

I'm guessing my issue isn't fuel pump related. Perhaps it is a sucky ground connection that is causing pump failures for me and Farrar.

I was able to easily replace my fuel pump (15 minute job) with my spare and I was happily on my way. 30 minutes down the road my high beams decided to quit working. Fortunately the low beams kept working fine. Things are sounding to be more of an electrical problem every moment.

I'm back home from today's journey and am to tired to go outside to do any work. Tomorrow I will check relays, fuses, and of course ground connections.


Edit: I don't know if this makes a difference or not but I am using the DMCH headlight switch box/kit thingie.

[sean]

After 420 miles of trouble free driving, I lost another fuel pump today.

This time it was a Specta (made in china) fuel pump that I installed about a month ago. This marks two fuel pump failures, one being Airtex and the other being Spectra.


I'm surprised you guys have not resorted to some jerry-rigged mechanical fuel pump yet. Seems it would be fitting rather than relying on these modern pumps.



.
Edit: I don't know if this makes a difference or not but I am using the DMCH headlight switch box/kit thingie.

not sure if all the versions have them but check the inline fuse if it is present. I think it's a 5 but think you'd be safe to toss a 10 in there. A local owner had a similar issue with a DMCH unit and bumping the fuse amperage helped.

[stevedmc]

not sure if all the versions have them but check the inline fuse if it is present. I think it's a 5 but think you'd be safe to toss a 10 in there. A local owner had a similar issue with a DMCH unit and bumping the fuse amperage helped.

Did his low beams still work with the popped fuse? I still have low beams.

[sean]

Did his low beams still work with the popped fuse? I still have low beams.

It's been two months or so since and I don't recall which he lost but he did lose one of them, kept popping the fused link. Bumping up the fuse amperage fixed I so far.

[Ron]

Did you check fuse 15 and try swapping the low and high relays?

[stevedmc]

I'm back home from today's journey and am to tired to go outside to do any work. Tomorrow I will check relays, fuses, and of course ground connections.


Did you check fuse 15 and try swapping the low and high relays?

Poor Ron. When is he going to start to think before he writes?

[Ron]

Poor Ron. When is he going to start to think before he writes?I'm sorry. The previous post was over a half hour old and when I went back a page to see what was going on, I saw you were still on line and tried to catch you.
It won't happen again.

[stevedmc]

Carburetors are awesome. Especially the Motorcraft 2100.

[content22207]

I'll be damned -- my password still works.

I harbor no delusions that this message won't be deleted after Sean wakes up. That is how moderation on this forum works -- the moderator makes derogatory statements, then deletes all attempts to respond to them.

Pretty cavalier on his part, considering what we discussed shortly before he threatened to revoke my password at the beginning of the month. I have kept my mouth shut thus far, but am beginning to wonder why I don't talk....

That is not a threat -- just wondering why I should continue to take the high road when the moderator does not.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

I'll be damned -- my password still works.

of course it does, you've just been moved to the moderation list. No oversight on the pm either.


It's seems the Bill roller coaster has lead you there again. When you calm down youll be taken off just like before.


EDIT:
this was not meant to be a jab but rather a serious "why not?" question. With all that you have fashioned for your car I didn't think I was that far out there for you to adapt a mechanical pump.

I'm surprised you guys have not resorted to some jerry-rigged mechanical fuel pump yet. Seems it would be fitting rather than relying on these modern pumps.

[stevedmc]

Well I went to Autozone today and they swapped out my Spectra pump with no problem at all.

Before going to Autozone I checked my fuses since my high beams quit working last night. The high beam fuse was blown. I changed it out and I now have bright headlights again.

I wonder if a ground issue might be what caused my fuel pump and headlight failure in the same day.

I am too lazy to do a full bus ground right now but I am seriously thinking about running a ground wire directly from my battery to the fuel pump. It would only take 5 minutes to do and it should resolve my issue if it is ground related.

[Farrar]

I am too lazy to do a full bus ground right now but I am seriously thinking about running a ground wire directly from my battery to the fuel pump. It would only take 5 minutes to do and it should resolve my issue if it is ground related.

I'd suggest making a better ground for the inertia switch instead. It's good to be able to disable the fuel pump when you are working on the car and need to turn the key on but don't want the pump to run all the time. Having the fuel pump keyed to the main relay, as you have done, and grounding the pump directly to the battery (or frame, less wire to run) would mean that in order to stop the pump from running all the time when your key is on you'd have to open up the relay/fuse compartment and remove the jumper -- more trouble than tripping the inertia switch.

Farrar

[stevedmc]

As each day passes, the EFI thread reminds me more and more why I prefer the simplicity of carburetion.