Looking to buy my first DeLorean, have ZERO experience with these cars. Advice?

[AgentDL]

I've always wanted a DeLorean (huge BTTF fan) and in a few months will be in a position to buy one. Thing is, I've never driven one, ridden in one, or even really sat in one. I'm also not really a "car guy" so I'd be looking for a clean, functional, user-friendly car that works the way it's supposed to (please don't laugh!) and can be repaired by someone else when necessary.

Next weekend I'll be meeting Ken at Pedigree Motors here in South Florida for my first hands-on/educational session on these cars... but in the mean time, any advice from you folks?

Am I crazy and/or unprepared for owning a DeLorean based on my lack of knowledge and relative unwillingness to deal with breakdowns/problems?

Thanks in advance!

[krs09]

I also bought my D without driving/riding in or really sitting in one also learned to drive stick in my D (everyone thought I was crazy for that one). But unless you have a substantial income or very little to no bills it would be a good idea to get willing to do some or most of your own work. The car may be in good shape to start but on a 30yr old car things WILL break down. Just sayin

[Nicholas R]

You have to be a little crazy to get involved with DeLoreans no matter what. :wink:

Welcome to the forum! Hopefully you can learn a lot from Ken. Best of luck with whatever you do!

Just remember, it's going to be 30 years old no matter what. There will be things that need repaired from time to time. It's cheaper to learn to fix them yourself, but going in, if your prepare yourself to pay to repair it, you may be ok,

[AgentDL]

I also bought my D without driving/riding in or really sitting in one also learned to drive stick in my D (everyone thought I was crazy for that one). But unless you have a substantial income or very little to no bills it would be a good idea to get willing to do some or most of your own work. The car may be in good shape to start but on a 30yr old car things WILL break down. Just sayin
Thanks for the input! I'll have enough disposable income that paying for repairs won't be an issue. I'm just not in a position to really do any of it myself. Are they ridiculously expensive to repair? Do they require specialized mechanics?

[krs09]

Thanks for the input! I'll have enough disposable income that paying for repairs won't be an issue. I'm just not in a position to really do any of it myself. Are they ridiculously expensive to repair? Do they require specialized mechanics?

Well I never changed my own oil on my 99 monte but did all of my own work on my delo (rebuilt engine,suspension,wiring ect) It amazing what you can learn from this site and the help from Dave @ DMCMW and all vendors, SpecialT's web site is very usefull aswell. EVERYTHING is scary when you don't know what your doing but with some knowledge and confidence its crazy how much you can do! Not to mention doing your own work will be crazy satisfying and who knows you just might have fun doing it. I do, I think a lot of us do... + 1 on being crazy getting involved in D's at all.

[Jeff K]

Don't do it, unless you have a ton of cash or mechanical experience.

These are old finicky cars developed with some real slipshot engineering.

I've owned two. (still one one)

Jeff

[ccurzio]

I knew NOTHING about auto repair when I bought my DeLorean. Now I know NEXT to nothing, but I've accomplished some repairs and learned a whole hell of a lot.

Changing out the clutch slave cylinder was probably the most involved repair project I've done on it.

[opethmike]

26566

[AugustneverEnds]

I've always wanted a DeLorean (huge BTTF fan) and in a few months will be in a position to buy one. Thing is, I've never driven one, ridden in one, or even really sat in one. I'm also not really a "car guy" so I'd be looking for a clean, functional, user-friendly car that works the way it's supposed to (please don't laugh!) and can be repaired by someone else when necessary.

Next weekend I'll be meeting Ken at Pedigree Motors here in South Florida for my first hands-on/educational session on these cars... but in the mean time, any advice from you folks?

Am I crazy and/or unprepared for owning a DeLorean based on my lack of knowledge and relative unwillingness to deal with breakdowns/problems?

Thanks in advance!

Welcome to the world of DeLorean!!!

I'm sure most people will agree your best course of action is to buy a car that is in very good condition. As in, has been restored and all maintenance is up to date and documented. Take your time in trying several different Ds before you make your selection. You are located in South Florida; there are plenty of qualified shops that you should investigate and contact and get to know. It is essential that you invest in a set of shop manuals. And as you can see the forum has plenty of support. And don't forget to have a blast getting hopelessly obsessed with all things DeLorean! :)

Happy Hunting!!!

[vwdmc16]

+1 on above. The biggest tips i can think of: Be open minded and whatever your expectations are as far as performance/quality/etc --lower them. It seems that anyone that knows of these cars "know" are junk/slow/bad, yet in my experience nearly none of them have any first hand experience with them either, the cars get a bad rap from these people. If you come from a car history background of only owning nice new or expensive cars your whole life you may be disappointed with your first encounter with a D, On the other hand if all you have owned is a Yugo or a junk Malaise-era american car then a decent D will be the nicest thing in the world.

My point is to be realistic about expectations: its a 32+ year old low production hand built car that was rushed into production. Lotus did great with the engineering in the time space they had but Im pretty sure Toyota invested more R&D and testing into the armrests on the new Siennas than DMCL did as a whole. Unless you buy a perfect example and just squirrel it away these car's usually require some decent looking after but for many that is half the fun! So as people will say buy the nicest one you can afford, I bought a real junker and the only reason I can afford it is because im a professional mechanic.

However most owners didnt buy a D to drive all the time and do everything, To them and maybe to you it's a weekend toy that is just for show. That brings up another point these cars also come with a fame/popularity generator, trying to go to the store and mind your own business with it becomes difficult as Delorean's can gather alot of attention. If you dont like talking with random people every time you go out(usually answering the same questions over and over and correcting alot of misinformation too), its not the car for you. I got my car because of my love for BTTF too but I think I have heard more Flux capacitor joke than anyone should every be subjected too.

That said im not saying dont go for it, Please try it out and its pretty likely you will love it.

[JohnZ]

Welcome!

Advice: double the money, triple the time!

;)

[PB Co]

Regardless of if you're going to work on the car or not, you should at least know your way around. A member here was in my area and agreed to meet up. I asked him to show me the basics inside and out. This way you won't go fumbling to pop the hood, engine cover, or fuse box when you're shopping. Sellers usually want their DMC12 go to a good home, especially when it's been cared for and maintained. Knowing more about the car will not only help you establish a fair price, but also increase your chances of the seller wanting to sell it to you.

Plenty of great resources here, read around and get a feel for the typical work needed. For a not-yet-owner like myself I now believe I know way too much about the DMC12 not to own one.

[jerzybondov]

+1 on above. The biggest tips i can think of: Be open minded and whatever your expectations are as far as performance/quality/etc --lower them. It seems that anyone that knows of these cars "know" are junk/slow/bad, yet in my experience nearly none of them have any first hand experience with them either, the cars get a bad rap from these people. If you come from a car history background of only owning nice new or expensive cars your whole life you may be disappointed with your first encounter with a D, On the other hand if all you have owned is a Yugo or a junk Malaise-era american car then a decent D will be the nicest thing in the world.

My point is to be realistic about expectations: its a 32+ year old low production hand built car that was rushed into production. Lotus did great with the engineering in the time space they had but Im pretty sure Toyota invested more R&D and testing into the armrests on the new Siennas than DMCL did as a whole. Unless you buy a perfect example and just squirrel it away these car's usually require some decent looking after but for many that is half the fun! So as people will say buy the nicest one you can afford, I bought a real junker and the only reason I can afford it is because im a professional mechanic.

However most owners didnt buy a D to drive all the time and do everything, To them and maybe to you it's a weekend toy that is just for show. That brings up another point these cars also come with a fame/popularity generator, trying to go to the store and mind your own business with it becomes difficult as Delorean's can gather alot of attention. If you dont like talking with random people every time you go out(usually answering the same questions over and over and correcting alot of misinformation too), its not the car for you. I got my car because of my love for BTTF too but I think I have heard more Flux capacitor joke than anyone should every be subjected too.

That said im not saying dont go for it, Please try it out and its pretty likely you will love it.

Totally agree with all of the above. Most new owners' issues are expectation related. Get the best you can afford. Don't be surprised when it goes wrong. It's a 33 year old car that was underdeveloped in terms of design & production, hand built by a generally un/newly-skilled workforce and once built was average at best in terms of performance and handling by early 1980s standards, which were pretty low. And while cars have moved on hugely since then, each DeLorean is now 33 years more decrepit. This is why management of expectations is important, even if you buy a 'new-build' from DMCH.

[andyd]

26566

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[papanoel]

I also bought my D without driving/riding in or really sitting in one also learned to drive stick in my D (everyone thought I was crazy for that one). But unless you have a substantial income or very little to no bills it would be a good idea to get willing to do some or most of your own work. The car may be in good shape to start but on a 30yr old car things WILL break down. Just sayin

Thats funny. The delorean is my first car and I bought it without a license. AND I'm learning to drive stick in it. I do have my license now though.

[D Knight]

It's just like any other car built 30 plus years ago in terms of maintenance/upkeep. If you go in knowing it's not as refined as new cars that benefit from 30 plus years of technological advancements, you'll be fine. I haven't put much into mine for the last few years as far as regular maintenance or repairs. I've done some cosmetic stuff that didn't NEED to be done, it was totally drivable and reliable. But it was severely neglected by the PO. A restored car will make a great reliable driver. Get the best car you can afford. I will say this, I've been restoring Pontiac f cars for years, this car is much easier to restore! Less expensive too! Jump in, and have fun. Just be ready for the BTTF jokes/comments and misinformation about it and it's creator.


-D Knight-

[TheSmokingMan]

I'll echo whats already been said. Buy the best example you can afford. Something with documentation that has been properly maintained would be ideal. The rule of $25k applies here. If you buy a car that's $15k, expect to Spend $20k to make it as good as a $25k car (especially if you are paying someone to do the work for you).

The best advice I can give you is to make friends with a local owner, or group of owners near you. Take someone experienced with DeLoreans along with you when you start looking. I guarantee you'll be glad you did.

[Some guy]

Here are some of the things to look for in my opinion.
1, Fuse box is behind the passenger seat. lift up the cover and make sure it is not a rats nest.
2, make sure the frame is not rusted by the front drivers side tire. (leaking break or clutch fluid)
3 make sure the frame is not rusted by the engine (these are common spots)
4 make sure the coolant bottle is stainless steal. (The original plastic one, i think are past there life.)
5 if you are buying a manual, make sure the clutch line is stainless steal.
6 check the "drive shafts" Make sure the rubber CV boots are not cracked
Other then those, just check the normal stuff. Make sure it runs, looks and drives good.

Once you buy it, be ready for;
Lots of pictures, (i make sure i have sun glasses in the car at all times.)
lots of the same BTTF quotes.
maintenance is on all cars, but take it to someone who knows what a Kjet fuel injection system is.

If you take a girl out on a date in it, down play the car, and let her think all the people looking at the car is because of her.

[Dangermouse]

This is always a useful post, if you haven't already read it:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?371-Please-read-before-posting-%93I-want-a-cheap-DeLorean%94-or-%93Project-Car-Wanted%94-threads

[AgentDL]

Hi folks,

First of all, wanted to thank everyone for their input. I'm checking back in now that I've gotten to know the DMC-12 a little better, thanks to Ken at Pedigree Motors in Delray Beach, FL. I've gone up to Ken twice, first to get my first hands-on experience with the car and a ride-along, and again to go for a test-drive once I had a chance to reacquaint myself with manual transmission in between visits (hadn't driven stick in 10 years).

So... I want one of these cars. I know that for a fact, and I'm ready to buy one within the next month or so.

I want a car that is as fuss-free as possible. As I mentioned, I'm not a mechanic or car guy, and I want to minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired, or with something not functioning properly. I know that's a tall order on this car but I want to get as close as possible to this scenario, as opposed to "I'll take an OK car and don't mind tinkering with it." I'm trying to figure out, in reality, how much I am going to have to spend to get this type of car. I can afford paying a higher-end price point, but don't want to spend a lot of extra money unnecessarily.

For example, the car that Ken is showing is a DMC-Florida car on consignment. Less than 10K miles, completely restored (whatever that means), stage 2 motor upgrade, stage 1 exhaust upgrade, Eibach suspension upgrade, upgraded exhaust tips, upgraded sound system, M/T, comes with DMC warranty for 6/12 months. An awesome, heavily-upgraded car in amazing condition and supported/backed by DMC-Florida. Asking price is $55K with probably just a little bit of wiggle room.

I checked out another car today at a local exotics dealer that was acquired out of an estate. 25K miles, A/T, pristine interior and exterior, good service history with recent work done, and otherwise stock. Asking $35K. I did not drive it (yet). Being sold by someone that barely knows about these cars and will obviously provide no support whatsoever once it's sold.

So, a $20,000 difference in asking price for two vastly-different cars that both appear to be in the condition I'm looking for. A couple questions:

Based on the quality level I'm looking for, is there anything specific I should be looking for on the cars I'm looking at?
Do the upgrades mentioned on the more expensive car add enough value to justify the cost?
Would you pay a premium to buy a waranteed car from a DMC franchise instead of a private buyer? How much?


And of course, any other feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Kane]

So, a $20,000 difference in asking price for two vastly-different cars that both appear to be in the condition I'm looking for. A couple questions:

Based on the quality level I'm looking for, is there anything specific I should be looking for on the cars I'm looking at?
Do the upgrades mentioned on the more expensive car add enough value to justify the cost?
Would you pay a premium to buy a waranteed car from a DMC franchise instead of a private buyer? How much?



1. Some of the things to check were listed in a previous post
2. Some people will disagree, but I don't think the upgrades are worth a $20,000 difference. The DMC Florida car partly costs so much more because it is a DMC Florida car. That's about it.
3. I would whole-heartedly say no. The warranty is all well and good, but not worth enough to justify buying the higher priced car (upgrades not withstanding).

I would suggest checking out the cheaper car. The seller may not provide support, but you can still go to DMC Florida to have work done. They will answer all your questions and be a great source to get parts through. I think a stock DeLorean is fine for me, so I don't need Stage 2 or anything. But some people want to push the power of this old car and see where they can take it. LANAAAA! DANGER ZONE.

[AgentDL]

1. Some of the things to check were listed in a previous post
2. Some people will disagree, but I don't think the upgrades are worth a $20,000 difference. The DMC Florida car partly costs so much more because it is a DMC Florida car. That's about it.
3. I would whole-heartedly say no. The warranty is all well and good, but not worth enough to justify buying the higher priced car (upgrades not withstanding).

I would suggest checking out the cheaper car. The seller may not provide support, but you can still go to DMC Florida to have work done. They will answer all your questions and be a great source to get parts through. I think a stock DeLorean is fine for me, so I don't need Stage 2 or anything. But some people want to push the power of this old car and see where they can take it. LANAAAA! DANGER ZONE.

Thank you. I still need to test-drive a stock car. The upgraded car was definitely fun to drive as far as the power and the exhaust notes but I have no basis for comparison.

[DeLorean03]

A new victim...er....soon to be owner :).

Welcome to the community. I read most of this thread, and here are my thoughts:

1. That $20k difference = you're paying for dealing with a car from a DeLorean vendor. Nothing wrong with that, but that is a lot of ki-zah to say "it came from DMC-X".

2. The warranty sounds attractive, but inevitably, it will run out, and you'll be on your own or paying $$$$ to have them fix it - if you decide to take it to strictly DMC vendors. Not to say this is a bad thing. I had my auto trans serviced by DMC-MW, and I was VERY pleased with their work.

3. I try not to get too much into the "get ready for hell" mode with soon to be owners for two reasons:

a. There's no need to be a "sky is falling" kind of guy.

b. New owners will learn, soon enough, that there is a balance of fixing vs driving this car.

That being said, for whatever reason, my car's K-Jetronic was ALWAYS wonky in one way or another. 1 week it was great, another week it was weird, another week it misfired, another week it straightened itself out, another week I had manual fuel gauges on the car diagnosing things, another week more stuff broke, another week it ran again, and another week it acted wonky again. It never seemed to be solid as a rock for me. It was ALWAYS something.

Now, my car seemed to be the exception. Most - not all - but most other owners seem to have good experience with the KJet fuel system. For me, the KJet was about as dependable as waiting for a boat to arrive at a train station. I don't say all of these things trying to discourage you; I say them to get you mentally ready - remember - dreaming is nearly always better than the reality.

Make no mistake, the car is 33 years old, things will break. It just happens. It's ok though - we have a pretty solid community and excellent members here and at DMCToday that are willing and able to help.

Words of advice:

1. Be patient. I cannot stress that enough.

2. Buy good tools - not cheap ones. Craftsman/Kobalt/Husky/Stanley tools are welcome members in my garage. Air tools will SERIOUSLY save your butt - believe me. Remember, this is your car - take awesome care of it.

3. If stuck, Florida has a solid number of owners. Providing pizza/take out/ free lunch or pizza and a 12 pack of beer will typically be very welcoming to other owners for help/tech day if you need assistance.

4. See the big picture. Do not focus on fun things like fancy radios, ground effects, color changing lights, and remote lock/unlock kits. Make sure your car is in solid shape - brakes, cooling system, and fuel system mainly. All the toys won't mean a dang thing if you cannot start it and drive it.

5. Never, ever, ever throw anything away unless it is snapped in half or broken beyond recognition. We have seen some members in a nasty jam because they threw things away they thought could not be used or would be easy to replace.

6. Emoticons here help a lot. We have had some mountains from molehills happen due to things being misconstrued.

7. Make friends both here and face to face. Fellow owners can and will definitely provide some solid support and save your butt in a time of uncertainty.

8. It's just a car. It's a very special car - but - it is not a rocket ship. As long as you keep oil and coolant in it, pretty much everything can be fixed. You may get stumped and frustrated. Walk away - cool off - don't keep working while angry or out of frustration. You will break things. The most steady and surgical hands can become sledgehammers when working out of emotion. It can be fixed. It will get fixed. Maybe not now or tomorrow, but it will get fixed.

Looking forward to you joining us as a fellow owner soon! Explore these forums thoroughly; there's a lot of information here.

[NightFlyer]

That being said, for whatever reason, my car's K-Jetronic was ALWAYS wonky in one way or another. 1 week it was great, another week it was weird, another week it misfired, another week it straightened itself out, another week I had manual fuel gauges on the car diagnosing things, another week more stuff broke, another week it ran again, and another week it acted wonky again. It never seemed to be solid as a rock for me. It was ALWAYS something.

Now, my car seemed to be the exception. Most - not all - but most other owners seem to have good experience with the KJet fuel system. For me, the KJet was about as dependable as waiting for a boat to arrive at a train station. I don't say all of these things trying to discourage you; I say them to get you mentally ready - remember - dreaming is nearly always better than the reality.

You LOVE K-Jet and we all know it, so drop the routine already :biggrin:


Make no mistake, the car is 33 years old, things will break. It just happens. It's ok though - we have a pretty solid community and excellent members here and at DMCToday that are willing and able to help.

Thanks for mentioning DMCToday - you da man! :thumbup:


2. Buy good tools - not cheap ones. Craftsman/Kobalt/Husky/Stanley tools are welcome members in my garage. Air tools will SERIOUSLY save your butt - believe me. Remember, this is your car - take awesome care of it.

Made in USA tools are preferable to Asian made garbage.

However, I think in the case of the OP, who sounds like he has no interest in getting his hands dirty, it would be better for him to budget accordingly. Plan on $500-$1k annually to have someone else maintain whatever car you end up buying. Some years, you won't need anything other than fluid changes - those will be cheaper than your budgeted expectations. Other years though, you'll need a new clutch or the trans rebuilt - those will be significantly more expensive years than your budgeted expectations. In the long run though, it should work out to average somewhere around there.

So long as you have realistic expectations, you'll be alright. But to expect any 33+ year old car (and especially a marginally engineered car such as a DeLorean), even if it has been restored/rebuilt, to perform without much issue for the next decade and 120k miles with only oil changes, as you would a new car, is wholly unrealistic and your just begging/asking for trouble.

A AAA card is essential for someone like the OP.


4. See the big picture. Do not focus on fun things like fancy radios, ground effects, color changing lights, and remote lock/unlock kits. Make sure your car is in solid shape - brakes, cooling system, and fuel system mainly. All the toys won't mean a dang thing if you cannot start it and drive it.

Well, now you're just being a killjoy, aren't you? Everyone knows that a banging stereo, color changing lights and door launchers are way more important than a solid cooling system, functioning brakes, etc!

Of course I'm being sarcastic.

Biggest mistake new owners make is to continue driving the car while it's overheating. That's a big no-no!


6. Emoticons here help a lot. We have had some mountains from molehills happen due to things being misconstrued.

As you didn't use an emoticon here, I'm going to interpret this as being a personal slam against me and get all bent out of shape over it! :mad2:

J/K - although, we have been somewhat light on BS and drama lately (ever since the brake upgrade kit war died down)...


Explore these forums thoroughly; there's a lot of information here.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=27356&d=1400617394

[DWDuck]

If you take a girl out on a date in it, down play the car, and let her think all the people looking at the car is because of her.

Can't think of anything to say in reply. Just grinning...

[acaciolo]

I started out the way you did. I actually got info on that $55k car in fla (that the told me they would sell for for $50k).

then I spoke to josh at DPI about one of his $45k complete rebuilds (which I still dream about...)

but I ended up with an amazing car for $24k with 13k miles in terrific shape.

I purchased a stainless exhaust form josh and a bunch of other parts (from grady, dmcmw, dpi) and have the car being updated now. fuel lines...master cylinder, belts, gaskets, fuel pump, etc. I will probably spend about $4-5k on everything (including tires, springs, shocks) and I'll have a great, updated car for under $30k. If I didn't go that route (and didn't enjoy this upgrade part so much,) I probably would have gone the josh DPI route.

Tony c

[Mark D]

55K for a DMCFL rebuilt car and 35K for a private party sale both sound pretty high, especially the latter.

DMC vendor rebuilt cars give you the warm fuzzy of knowing that it was recently refurbished by someone who knows what they are doing and the limited warranty is nice but I don't feel it's worth a 20k premium. I like to work on my own cars so I don't really see the value there. If you want a turn key car with as few worries as possible it may mean something to you, but even DMC-X cars will have problems. They are using the same components that everyone else buys to fix their cars. Think of it in terms of maintenance you may need to do down the road... There's no way you're going to need to spend 20K in repairs to fix up that similar 35K car.

You shouldn't expect to even pay 35K for a cosmetically clean, updated, well maintained DeLorean. The private party seller you're considering sounds overpriced. It would literally need to be in perfect condition with all of the known mechanical issues recently fixed with lots of receipts to prove it. I'm talking Fresh rebuild similar to what DMCFL would do.

For what you're looking at in terms of reliability and 'get in and go' usage I would steer you away from low miles original cars because that just means you know it's going to need a lot done to it as soon as you start driving it.

Best bang for your buck would be to find a well maintained enthusiast owned car in the mid to high 20K range and then put a few thousand into repairs if anything needs attention Then you'll have the reliability that you're seeking and not break the bank on a fully refurbished car.

[NightFlyer]

For what you're looking at in terms of reliability and 'get in and go' usage I would steer you away from low miles original cars because that just means you know it's going to need a lot done to it as soon as you start driving it.

Disagree with this portion of your comment.

When I bought my car, it was all original and had low miles. First thing I did was take it on a 2,000 mile vacation to Mount Rushmore and back. Only problems encountered were a hot start problem (caused by the original accumulator), and I rolled the driver's side window down too far, causing it to jump the track. Other than that, those were the only problems I encountered before I stored the car away for roughly a decade. The awakening process required fuel system and brake work, but that was all admittedly caused by my improper storage.

As many know, I'm still running the factory original belts, plastic header bottle, plastic tanked radiator, factory fuel hoses, factory coolant system hoses, Ducey alternator, factory clutch fluid, etc. Hell, up until last year, I was even still running the NCTs (I only replaced them to preserve them, but will have them on my car for the trip to DCS and back).

It's all about proper storage and maintenance vs having the latest and greatest in new parts on the car, IMHO.

Also, with an original car, you don't run into any DPO surprises....

[DMCMW Dave]

Disagree with this portion of your comment.

When I bought my car, it was all original and had low miles. First thing I did ..............

What year was that? Not trying to give you a hard time, but if at that time it was only 8-10 years old, it's a lot different from what people are finding in low mile survivor cars.

[Delorean02378]

http://store.delorean.com/p-10550-the-illustrated-buyers-guide-to-delorean-automobiles.aspx

Best $29.95 you'll ever spend on anything Delorean related.

[NightFlyer]

What year was that? Not trying to give you a hard time, but if at that time it was only 8-10 years old, it's a lot different from what people are finding in low mile survivor cars.

2002 - so the car was 21 years old. For at least 17 of those years, the car was stored with the wheels off in a temp and humidity controlled carcoon.

[DMCMW Dave]

I have 3 cars listed on the DMC Houston site now. We're trying something a bit different with a couple of them. http://delorean.com/for-sale/

I am only speaking for DMC Midwest, the dealers are at this point somewhat independent in how we do the pre-owned car side of the business. We do very few of these cars as they take low priority to our customer-pay work.

One (3808) is fully refurbished. That means everything that normally ever goes wrong with a DeLorean is replaced/updated. For example the window motors worked, but we replaced them anyway. Same for the cooling system, brakes, tires, wheels, fuel, and electrical system. This is the only way we've been selling cars here for the past several years, and they go in the low 40s (plus options). Details on the listing. It's actually a very fair price considering everything that is done here. Yes, high compared to do-it-yourself work or a "not so fresh" car. A very good deal compared to buying an unknown car and sending it in to a shop for refurbishment. I've had people bring me "great deal" eBay cars and end up spending considerably more. We don’t start with basket-case cars, i.e. frame work is a non-starter, as is interior work needing much more than headliners.

The other two listed cars are the “experiment”. They are "Partial/In Process" refurbs. The price shown is as-if-completed like the first one. At this time the two cars are in the process of being repaired to "nice driver" status. For example the brakes are working (nothing stuck or worn out) we let it go. If they are bad they get rebuilt (in the case of 3981, the brakes got a full rebuild). They are both nice cars to start with. We will finish them to whatever level the buyer would like.

Overall the cars have been fully inspected and will be brought up to a high level of safety and reliability without replacing items that are in functional condition. Pricing on these depends on how much of the remaining detail work you may wish to do yourself, but you can be assured that the basic car is safe and sound.

In all cases the will come with a list of everything that was done, and everything else that could / should be done to hit that 40K + mark.

Contact me directly off-list for more information.

[AgentDL]

http://store.delorean.com/p-10550-the-illustrated-buyers-guide-to-delorean-automobiles.aspx

Best $29.95 you'll ever spend on anything Delorean related.

Bought! Thanks!

[Mark D]

Disagree with this portion of your comment.

When I bought my car, it was all original and had low miles. First thing I did was take it on a 2,000 mile vacation to Mount Rushmore and back. Only problems encountered were a hot start problem (caused by the original accumulator), and I rolled the driver's side window down too far, causing it to jump the track. Other than that, those were the only problems I encountered before I stored the car away for roughly a decade. The awakening process required fuel system and brake work, but that was all admittedly caused by my improper storage.

As many know, I'm still running the factory original belts, plastic header bottle, plastic tanked radiator, factory fuel hoses, factory coolant system hoses, Ducey alternator, factory clutch fluid, etc. Hell, up until last year, I was even still running the NCTs (I only replaced them to preserve them, but will have them on my car for the trip to DCS and back).

It's all about proper storage and maintenance vs having the latest and greatest in new parts on the car, IMHO.

Also, with an original car, you don't run into any DPO surprises....

I think we've been down this rabbit hole before and I know I'm not going to change your mind but here I go anyway...

I understand that since your car is mostly original you tend to favor originality rather than updated cars, but this is what the OP said:


I want a car that is as fuss-free as possible. As I mentioned, I'm not a mechanic or car guy, and I want to minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired, or with something not functioning properly. I know that's a tall order on this car but I want to get as close as possible to this scenario, as opposed to "I'll take an OK car and don't mind tinkering with it."

To "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired" the OP going to want to find a well maintained car with the known problem issues already addressed. This will satisfy the OP's requirements better than an original car with old parts that are going to fail sooner rather than later. It's not a matter of opinion, it's math. If a belt, hose, or fluid has a service life of X miles, Y running hours, or Z heat cycles if you start with a 33 year old part that is already partially worn it will not last as long a brand new part. Reliability (like the OP is seeking) is knowing that your car isn't going to break down due to some aged rubber component finally failing or some flawed electronic component releasing the magic blue smoke. The examples you gave of your failed accumulator, window regulators, and brakes are perfect examples of parts that should be updated and not original for maximum reliability. Given what the OP is looking for, your stance that his requirements might somehow be met by an original car with minimal updates is not sound advice. Someone wanting a car to jump in and drive shouldn't have to worry about rolling down a window too far (if that's even possible to do)

You said "It's all about proper storage and maintenance vs having the latest and greatest in new parts on the car, IMHO."

Parts like hoses, belts, fluids are consumable items and proper maintenance is to replace these items before they fail and potentially cause further damage to the rest of the car. There is absolutely no reason to wait to replace a belt until it fails when the consequence is an inoperable water pump and overheated engine... not to mention being broken down on the side of the road wherever the failure happens to occur. For $14 I'll replace that belt every 5 years and know with absolute certainty that it won't fail because it's old and worn. The belt still might fail for some other reason but I've "minimized to the best extent possible" that I'll have a failure of that component. Same is true for replacing fuel hoses as a preventative measure rather than waiting until they fail and possibly start the engine (or entire car) on fire. How sure are you that next time you drive your car the plastic coolant bottle won't split at the seam and start puking coolant all over the road? I'm 100% sure mine won't because it's sitting in a box and there is a stainless steel part in its place.

I'll agree there is a certain charm to running original components. I still haven't replaced my browned dash yet even though I have a new DMCH reproduction. But to purposely not replace consumable parts for the sake of being able to rattle of a big list of items that haven't failed yet makes no sense. Parts that might make a difference in the concourse competition? Ok, I can see the possible benefit there. But not changing your clutch fluid just because? Makes no sense and is not good maintenance practice. You're free to do whatever you want on your own car but I feel like I've got to say something when you start advising new/potential owners that this is the way to go.

[DeLorean03]

I'm watching this one. Let's stay civil, but I am definitely interested in the points and thoughts raised here:

:popcorn:

[Mark D]

I'll just add that the majority of the comments I made are specific to the OP's situation, his stated mechanical ability, and what he's looking for in a DeLorean. I wouldn't be recommending a potential owner to look at higher end rebuilt cars if he/she wanted a project car and had the mechanical ability and desire to take on repairs right out of the gate.

I'm interested to hear what other people's opinions are too. Some guys go way overboard on PM and thats equally as puzzling as running original brake fluid in a 33 year old car. Guys on the E46 BMW forum say complete replacement of the cooling system (hoses, radiator, thermostat housing, coolant expansion tank, level sensor, pulleys and tensioners.... EVERYTHING) is required at 60,000 mile intervals. I put on about 30k a year so total cooling system replacement every 2 years is rediculous.

[NightFlyer]

I'm watching this one. Let's stay civil, but I am definitely interested in the points and thoughts raised here:

:popcorn:

Well then, with that kind of trepidation, how could I not respond :biggrin:


I think we've been down this rabbit hole before and I know I'm not going to change your mind but here I go anyway...

I understand that since your car is mostly original you tend to favor originality rather than updated cars, but this is what the OP said:



To "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired" the OP going to want to find a well maintained car with the known problem issues already addressed. This will satisfy the OP's requirements better than an original car with old parts that are going to fail sooner rather than later. It's not a matter of opinion, it's math. If a belt, hose, or fluid has a service life of X miles, Y running hours, or Z heat cycles if you start with a 33 year old part that is already partially worn it will not last as long a brand new part. Reliability (like the OP is seeking) is knowing that your car isn't going to break down due to some aged rubber component finally failing or some flawed electronic component releasing the magic blue smoke. The examples you gave of your failed accumulator, window regulators, and brakes are perfect examples of parts that should be updated and not original for maximum reliability. Given what the OP is looking for, your stance that his requirements might somehow be met by an original car with minimal updates is not sound advice. Someone wanting a car to jump in and drive shouldn't have to worry about rolling down a window too far (if that's even possible to do)

You said "It's all about proper storage and maintenance vs having the latest and greatest in new parts on the car, IMHO."

Parts like hoses, belts, fluids are consumable items and proper maintenance is to replace these items before they fail and potentially cause further damage to the rest of the car. There is absolutely no reason to wait to replace a belt until it fails when the consequence is an inoperable water pump and overheated engine... not to mention being broken down on the side of the road wherever the failure happens to occur. For $14 I'll replace that belt every 5 years and know with absolute certainty that it won't fail because it's old and worn. The belt still might fail for some other reason but I've "minimized to the best extent possible" that I'll have a failure of that component. Same is true for replacing fuel hoses as a preventative measure rather than waiting until they fail and possibly start the engine (or entire car) on fire. How sure are you that next time you drive your car the plastic coolant bottle won't split at the seam and start puking coolant all over the road? I'm 100% sure mine won't because it's sitting in a box and there is a stainless steel part in its place.

I'll agree there is a certain charm to running original components. I still haven't replaced my browned dash yet even though I have a new DMCH reproduction. But to purposely not replace consumable parts for the sake of being able to rattle of a big list of items that haven't failed yet makes no sense. Parts that might make a difference in the concourse competition? Ok, I can see the possible benefit there. But not changing your clutch fluid just because? Makes no sense and is not good maintenance practice. You're free to do whatever you want on your own car but I feel like I've got to say something when you start advising new/potential owners that this is the way to go.

A couple of flaws in your logic here:

1) A low mileage all original car that was stored and maintained properly isn't going to have much wear on the parts (including rubber components, as the biggest detriments to rubber are 1) ozone exposure, 2) uv exposure, 3) extreme and frequent shifts in humidity, and 4) exposure to chemicals that it's not resistant to). A low mileage car, such as mine was when purchased, that was stored properly, such as mine was when first purchased (indoors, fluids drained, wheels/tires off, in a temp and humidity controlled carcoon) isn't going to have the kind of wear or age on it to warrant changing parts, at least not until failure - unless you just like throwing money away. Or is Houston sitting on a warehouse and a multi-million dollar investment in nothing but junk simply because it's mostly all 33+ years old?

2) While there are admittedly weak spots in both the engineering of the assembled car and in certain parts contained on the car, many of the "known problems," as you called them, are based upon a represented failure rate pool of less than 1% (and even then, it's questionable) - hardly what I'd call a representative sample to definitively claim outright that something is defective, at least IMHO anyway. For example - the plastic coolant header bottle. How many actual failures are you personally aware of or have seen definitive proof of such failures from sources such as this forum or the DML? Now, of those actual/confirmed/hear-say failures, how many of those people can definitely and truly claim that their car was never overheated, which could very well be the cause of such failures? Where I come from, using a product in a fashion not directed by the manufacturer, such as driving a vehicle to the point where it's suffering from overheating, doesn't make the component parts within the system responsible for a failure should they fail when experiencing conditions that they were never designed/engineered/intended to tolerate - wouldn't you say that's fair? And yet, I've been told countless times that 'oh, but someone had coolant melt right through their plastic bottle,' as if that was definitive proof of the substandard quality of the plastic bottle. Um, isn't it obvious that if the owner is running their car to the point where the coolant is hot enough to accomplish melting through the rather thick thermo-polymer of the bottle that the owner is using their vehicle in a manner that is most definitely NOT recommended by the manufacturer? Is it just me, or does much of the community suffer from lack of common sense when such an incident is blamed on the bottle being defective as opposed to the owner of the car for not maintaining their cooling system in such a condition that it keeps the car at it's designed running temperature?!?! The only car I know of that actually openly advertised - 'drive it 100 miles without coolant, we designed to be able to do that without wrecking anything,' were Cadillacs featuring the Northstar system (and believe me, after having owned many with the now infamous head bolt lifting problem, which is commonly misdiagnosed by trained/certified mechanics as a head gasket problem, those claims weren't exactly true either, as is solidified by that the fact that they don't advertise this on any of their new designs despite having advanced in technology by more than a decade - gee, I wonder why, right). Or, we can talk about the scare within the community over TABs - how many actual failures (not just fatigue or bending - actual failures)? And yet, for many this a 'must do' at some point because the oem ones are complete junk - right? And yet, many have hundreds of thousands of miles and over 33 years on them and are still going strong - but how can that be, as I thought they were junk? If properly maintained and if the car is being driven normally (as opposed to being driven hard), I personally see nothing wrong with the oem TABs - thus definitely not a 'must do' IMHO. I could could go on all day regarding community lore that is based on overreaction or less than actual empirical/proven evidence, (plastic/nylon fuel lines, plastic/nylon clutch line, etc) but I won't waste any more time, as I believe I've proven my point.

Having said that, there are some things that I do support taking care of - a majority of which have to do with the Lucas electrics. I fully support being proactive with the door lock control module and cooling fan circuit, but even if a car didn't have those, they're simple add-ons that anyone with a fourth grade reading level and can follow written instructions can perform in less than an hour for a few hundred bucks. A car not having these mods, but otherwise being perfect, certainly wouldn't keep me from purchasing the car - would it keep you from purchasing the car if you had the OP's expectations?

As to the two (extremely minor) problems that I personally experienced: 1) why would anyone change an accumulator before it fails, and 2) the window problem in my car was a build problem and not a defective part problem. And who replaces power window motors before they fail (as is an EXTREMELY common occurrence across all makes/models dating to the '70's/'80's)?

3) Any old car you buy is going to require regular maintenance and repair/replacement of old components at some point (provided you keep it long enough to experience such). I quite frankly, I haven't seen proof that rebuilding/restoring/updating helps keeps problems to a minimum. Case in point, look at all the owners of rebuilt cars, Michael, George, etc, on this forum who, despite owning fairly fresh rebuilds/updates/restores/etc, have many of the same problems as the rest of us. Thus, in all honestly, what good did doing those rebuilds/updates/restorations actually accomplish for those owners? In fact, all it appears to have done (via empirical evidence) is send parts that were otherwise good and functional to the junk bin earlier than they otherwise would have been. As many here know, I'm of the mindset that 'if it isn't broke, don't fix it.' That doesn't mean that I don't believe in proper preventative maintenance, but replacing otherwise good parts merely for the sake of replacing them, or updating/upgrading things that haven't actually been proven to be actual problems simply because it has been perpetuated in community lore as being the right thing to do, are hardly what I'd call proper preventative maintenance.

So, there you have it. My two cents anyway. I just wanted to offer a different perspective, and one that's based upon actual observation and supportable empirical evidence.

Does that make me right - of course not. There is no right or wrong here - it's a wholly subjective issue, which is precisely why we should be open to and offering of all perspectives, right?

The OP is a big boy, is fully capable of reading everything here, and coming to his own conclusion.

Cheers to all :thumbup:

BTW - I honestly don't favor originality over updates. I'm a 'to each their own' kinda guy :smile:

[DMCMW Dave]

1) A low mileage all original car that was stored and maintained properly :

That's the rub. I've seen tons of low mile original cars. Less than 1000 miles. A couple less than 300. Only one I can recall that was "stored properly". Most were abandoned in the garage with a full tank of gas and covered with garage crap for 30 years. And then marketed as a "survivor" car with no fuel system, stuck brakes, coolant that has long ago turned into rusty water, and 30 years worth of mouse houses in cubbyhole and engine.

[NightFlyer]

That's the rub. I've seen tons of low mile original cars. Less than 1000 miles. A couple less than 300. Only one I can recall that was "stored properly". Most were abandoned in the garage with a full tank of gas and covered with garage crap for 30 years. And then marketed as a "survivor" car with no fuel system, stuck brakes, coolant that has long ago turned into rusty water, and 30 years worth of mouse houses in cubbyhole and engine.

Absolutely - that's why I made sure to qualify it. :hihi:

And I agree, it is difficult to find properly stored cars, which raises a another good point - it's important to know what you're looking at (or get someone who does) when assessing a car for purchase as opposed to blindly trusting the assertions/puffery of the seller. :yoda:

[DMCMW Dave]

when assessing a car for purchase as opposed to blindly trusting the assertions/puffery of the seller.

NEVER EVER buy a high dollar car sight unseen, without at least the right (and round-trip ticket) to walk away from it when you come to pick it up. My comment on this topic is that the airline ticket will be the cheapest and best money you spend on the car. Especially if it gives you the power to renegotiate or walk away from a truly bad car.

I know someone will pipe up about a good experience with long-distance sight unseen purchases, but I find that the bad-experience people won't say anything.

[Mark D]

1) A low mileage all original car that was stored and maintained properly isn't going to have much wear on the parts (including rubber components, as the biggest detriments to rubber are 1) ozone exposure, 2) uv exposure, 3) extreme and frequent shifts in humidity, and 4) exposure to chemicals that it's not resistant to).

"Much wear" vs "No wear". The OP wants to "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired" A brand new rubber coolant hose on a rebuilt car is going to minimize risk of failure. No matter how well you store rubber parts they are still 30 years old and have some wear.


A low mileage car, such as mine was when purchased, that was stored properly, such as mine was when first purchased (indoors, fluids drained, wheels/tires off, in a temp and humidity controlled carcoon) isn't going to have the kind of wear or age on it to warrant changing parts, at least not until failure - unless you just like throwing money away. Or is Houston sitting on a warehouse and a multi-million dollar investment in nothing but junk simply because it's mostly all 33+ years old?

Houston is not selling 30 year old NOS belts or 30 year old NOS coolant hoses. They're also not using brake fluid that's been in an unsealed container for 30 years (like your vented clutch reservoir). I'm not advocating replacing parts for the sake of replacing parts.... I'm specifically talking about consumable maintenance parts that should be replaced because at their current age (regardless of storage conditions) they have reached their end of life and are no longer as reliable as new parts. Sure they may still work, but for how long? The point is that new is more reliable than old, and reliability is the specific issue of the OP's concern. Remember? He wants to "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired"



2) While there are admittedly weak spots in both the engineering of the assembled car and in certain parts contained on the car, many of the "known problems," as you called them, are based upon a represented failure rate pool of less than 1% (and even then, it's questionable) - hardly what I'd call a representative sample to definitively claim outright that something is defective, at least IMHO anyway. For example - the plastic coolant header bottle. How many actual failures are you personally aware of or have seen definitive proof of such failures from sources such as this forum or the DML? Now, of those actual/confirmed/hear-say failures, how many of those people can definitely and truly claim that their car was never overheated, which could very well be the cause of such failures? Where I come from, using a product in a fashion not directed by the manufacturer, such as driving a vehicle to the point where it's suffering from overheating, doesn't make the component parts within the system responsible for a failure should they fail when experiencing conditions that they were never designed/engineered/intended to tolerate - wouldn't you say that's fair? And yet, I've been told countless times that 'oh, but someone had coolant melt right through their plastic bottle,' as if that was definitive proof of the substandard quality of the plastic bottle. Um, isn't it obvious that if the owner is running their car to the point where the coolant is hot enough to accomplish melting through the rather thick thermo-polymer of the bottle that the owner is using their vehicle in a manner that is most definitely NOT recommended by the manufacturer? Is it just me, or does much of the community suffer from lack of common sense when such an incident is blamed on the bottle being defective as opposed to the owner of the car for not maintaining their cooling system in such a condition that it keeps the car at it's designed running temperature?!?! The only car I know of that actually openly advertised - 'drive it 100 miles without coolant, we designed to be able to do that without wrecking anything,' were Cadillacs featuring the Northstar system (and believe me, after having owned many with the now infamous head bolt lifting problem, which is commonly misdiagnosed by trained/certified mechanics as a head gasket problem, those claims weren't exactly true either, as is solidified by that the fact that they don't advertise this on any of their new designs despite having advanced in technology by more than a decade - gee, I wonder why, right).

The statistics, percentages, and personal experiences of others do not change the fact that the plastic bottle can fail in a way that the stainless bottle cannot. Here comes the broken record:
The OP wants to "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired" the most reliable option is a car with a stainless coolant bottle. He will never have to worry about a stainless coolant bottle splitting open even if the car was operated under conditions the manufacturer did not intend. That cannot be said about a plastic coolant bottle of a a less robust design.



Or, we can talk about the scare within the community over TABs - how many actual failures (not just fatigue or bending - actual failures)? And yet, for many this a 'must do' at some point because the oem ones are complete junk - right? And yet, many have hundreds of thousands of miles and over 33 years on them and are still going strong - but how can that be, as I thought they were junk? If properly maintained and if the car is being driven normally (as opposed to being driven hard), I personally see nothing wrong with the oem TABs - thus definitely not a 'must do' IMHO. I could could go on all day regarding community lore that is based on overreaction or less than actual empirical/proven evidence, (plastic/nylon fuel lines, plastic/nylon clutch line, etc) but I won't waste any more time, as I believe I've proven my point.

I believe you've proven that you are not so much interested in answering the OP's questions about which options are most reliable, but instead tried to explain how some of the known existing issues aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be. While you may have a point that certain failures are often overstated and hyped up, the reality is that 12.9 or inconel bolts are stronger and have less chance of failure than a 10.9 bolt. It doesn't matter how often the old ones actually fail, they do fail from time to time. So to "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired" the OP is better served purchasing a car with upgraded bolts.


Having said that, there are some things that I do support taking care of - a majority of which have to do with the Lucas electrics. I fully support being proactive with the door lock control module and cooling fan circuit, but even if a car didn't have those, they're simple add-ons that anyone with a fourth grade reading level and can follow written instructions can perform in less than an hour for a few hundred bucks. A car not having these mods, but otherwise being perfect, certainly wouldn't keep me from purchasing the car - would it keep you from purchasing the car if you had the OP's expectations?

Why be proactive with certain failure prone parts and not others? Just because you personally haven't replaced these other items yet doesn't mean they're not due for replacement. Like it or not your brake fluid is old and contaminated with water. The delicate balance of crud currently preventing leaks in your master/slave cylinders is not as reliable as new components with fresh brake fluid.

If I was the OP and wanted to minimize my risk of having the car end up in the shop due to an eletrical issue I'd get a car with updated electronics. Given the option between two otherwise identical cars where one had the original electronics and the other with updated I'd chose the updated car every single time.



As to the two (extremely minor) problems that I personally experienced: 1) why would anyone change an accumulator before it fails, and 2) the window problem in my car was a build problem and not a defective part problem. And who replaces power window motors before they fail (as is an EXTREMELY common occurrence across all makes/models dating to the '70's/'80's)?

As your own personal experience has shown, a car stored for a lengthy period of time even when stored with meticulous care can still have accumulator failure. Storage is not particularly kind to this component. The OP doesn't want to buy a car and in a short period of time get stranded with a hot start condtion due to a failed accumulator. To best meet his specific needs he should buy car that has already had the fuel system sorted out, including replacement of the accumulator.

Power window motors are notoriously failure prone on DeLoreans. My own personal car has broken power windows that I have not repaired yet. The OP doesn't want to deal with inoperable windows and wants to "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired" He should therefore buy a car that has had the window motors/regulators replaced.


3) Any old car you buy is going to require regular maintenance and repair/replacement of old components at some point (provided you keep it long enough to experience such). I quite frankly, I haven't seen proof that rebuilding/restoring/updating helps keeps problems to a minimum. Case in point, look at all the owners of rebuilt cars, Michael, George, etc, on this forum who, despite owning fairly fresh rebuilds/updates/restores/etc, have many of the same problems as the rest of us. Thus, in all honestly, what good did doing those rebuilds/updates/restorations actually accomplish for those owners?

Like I said before, I didn't expect that I'd be able to change your mind. You seem to be hung up on the fact that certain things have not failed on your car yet so they must not be an issue. You're proud of the fact that you're still using parts that have failed on most other cars. Fix as fail maintenance is an OK strategy if you don't mind the unexpected nature of making repairs on an undefined schedule. PM allows you to chose when your car is out of service to be repaired. The OP is seeking as few repairs as possible with no surprises. I'm not sure if you're being intentionally vague with your examples of rebuilt cars having the same problems as original cars...Were the 'same problems' related to parts that were replaced or original parts that were not rebuilt?



In fact, all it appears to have done (via empirical evidence) is send parts that were otherwise good and functional to the junk bin earlier than they otherwise would have been.
What empirical evidence are you referring to?



As many here know, I'm of the mindset that 'if it isn't broke, don't fix it.' That doesn't mean that I don't believe in proper preventative maintenance,
Yes, actually, it does.

If a part isn't "broke" and doesn't get replaced until it actually fails that is called "maintenance."

If you fix something prior to it breaking that is called "preventative maintenance."

When your 30 year old coolant hoses fail and you conclude per your maintenance strategy that it is now time to "fix it", you will be on the side of the road calling a tow truck and later perform maintenance to repair said blown up coolant hose.

If you were to replace that same coolant hose tomorrow you will have performed preventative maintenance to stop such a situation from happening. The OP wants to minimize his chance of being stranding and having to perform maintenance on the fly. Therefore buying a car that has had the most preventative maintenance already performed is in his best interest.

With PM you get to chose when your car is out of service. Fix as fail maintenance doesn't let you chose when parts get replaced.



but replacing otherwise good parts merely for the sake of replacing them, or updating/upgrading things that haven't actually been proven to be actual problems simply because it has been perpetuated in community lore as being the right thing to do, are hardly what I'd call proper preventative maintenance.

I am in no way advocating replacing good parts merely for the sake of replacing them. I'm talking about replacing wear items and increasing overall reliablity by replacing parts that are known to have failure issues. "Perpetuated community lore" items you referenced like the coolant bottle and TABS are still items that have documented failures. Even if the numbes are overstated, failures have still happened and preventative steps can be taken to avoid similar failures. This is the very definition of preventative maintenance. Items on your personal car that you are touting as original are due for preventative replacement, including fluids, hoses, belts. The fact that you intend to wait until these items leak or fail completely is "hardly what anyone would call proper preventative maintenance." Your "if it ain't broke" method is called fix-as-fail maintenance which is a completely different method of maintaining a car than PM.



So, there you have it. My two cents anyway. I just wanted to offer a different perspective, and one that's based upon actual observation and supportable empirical evidence.
All you've provided is your own personal experience... what supportable empiracle evidence have you provided? That when a part fails it is, in fact, in need of replacement?

Your perspective is that you prefer to fix things as they fail, and that you think it's a better strategy than PM because you're not replacing potentially good parts with new parts that might have a higher failure rate than an original part. My recommendation to the OP was that for someone like him who is seeking maximum reliability he should buy a car that has known failure issues already addressed prior his purchasing the car. This will yield better results than buying a mostly original car.


Does that make me right - of course not. There is no right or wrong here - it's a wholly subjective issue, which is precisely why we should be open to and offering of all perspectives, right?
The OP is a big boy, is fully capable of reading everything here, and coming to his own conclusion.
Cheers to all :thumbup:

Hopefully he sees that a car with brand new parts and up to date PM will give him fewer issues than one with mostly original parts maintained with a fix as fail strategy.

[refugeefromcalif]

NEVER EVER buy a high dollar car sight unseen, without at least the right (and round-trip ticket) to walk away from it when you come to pick it up. My comment on this topic is that the airline ticket will be the cheapest and best money you spend on the car. Especially if it gives you the power to renegotiate or walk away from a truly bad car.

I know someone will pipe up about a good experience with long-distance sight unseen purchases, but I find that the bad-experience people won't say anything.

I SO want to make a comment on my High Dollar, Long Distance, Sight Unseen Vender DeLorean purchase...

George

DISCLAIMER: No, I didn't buy my car from DMCMW.

[NightFlyer]

I SO want to make a comment on my High Dollar, Long Distance, Sight Unseen Vender DeLorean purchase...

George

DISCLAIMER: No, I didn't buy my car from DMCMW.

Somehow, I saw this one coming :biggrin:

[NightFlyer]

"Much wear" vs "No wear". The OP wants to "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired" A brand new rubber coolant hose on a rebuilt car is going to minimize risk of failure. No matter how well you store rubber parts they are still 30 years old and have some wear.



Houston is not selling 30 year old NOS belts or 30 year old NOS coolant hoses. They're also not using brake fluid that's been in an unsealed container for 30 years (like your vented clutch reservoir). I'm not advocating replacing parts for the sake of replacing parts.... I'm specifically talking about consumable maintenance parts that should be replaced because at their current age (regardless of storage conditions) they have reached their end of life and are no longer as reliable as new parts. Sure they may still work, but for how long? The point is that new is more reliable than old, and reliability is the specific issue of the OP's concern. Remember? He wants to "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired"

In theory, I'll agree with you. But unless you're actually using a component until the expiration of it's useful life, then you actually have no idea how long it will last. It's a simple matter of probability. And while probability is admittedly on your side, it's also somewhat probable that you could end up with a defective new part or a new part that won't last as long as the old part for a variety of reasons.

Case in point example here is the distributor cap. The new caps being sold for our cars appear to be of a significantly inferior build quality than the old caps were. I was going to change mine out as a part of tune up, but seeing as how my old cap was in good shape, functioned well, and appeared to have much usable life in it, I stuck with running the stock/OEM cap and put the new one on the shelf.

Also, unless the OP is wealthy to the point where money is no object (which I'm guessing he isn't, otherwise he would have already purchased a car and probably through a specialty car agent such as Wayne Carini), then I'm guessing that he's also looking to get the best value for his dollar. Buying an original car for a fair price accomplishes two things: 1) no DPO surprises, and 2) it could represent the best value for the dollar. It also allows the OP to prioritize and specify specifically what he wants done with car, without having to pay double by replacing unacceptable upgrades that were included in the purchase price.

Example: Seller has an upgraded up the wazoo DeLorean, but part of the upgrades included a new set of Primewell tires. Seller added $100 to the purchase price to account for the new tire, which buyer is willing to pay because it's less than what a new set of the exact same tires would run him and they're new so they must be good, right? Ah, but Steve Rice had a set of these cheap made in China tires on his car - not only did they ride horribly, but he only got about 3,000 miles out of them before the tread separated from the sidewall and put him on the side of the road. I logged more successful miles on my original NCTs than those brand new tires did for Steve. Luckily, Steve was prepared with a jack and a full size spare and immediately drove to a tire store and changed out all the tires with new made in USA Futuras (made by Cooper and an exclusive chain house brand). The point is that the buyer would have been better off buying an original car for a fair price and putting whatever tires he wanted on the car, than buying the completely upgraded car at the premium price, because the upgrade wasn't only not worth the premium, but in this case, was worse than what came on the original car. That's just one example.


The statistics, percentages, and personal experiences of others do not change the fact that the plastic bottle can fail in a way that the stainless bottle cannot. Here comes the broken record:
The OP wants to "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired" the most reliable option is a car with a stainless coolant bottle. He will never have to worry about a stainless coolant bottle splitting open even if the car was operated under conditions the manufacturer did not intend. That cannot be said about a plastic coolant bottle of a a less robust design.

The only benefit that a stainless bottle provides over a plastic one is knowing that it probably won't fail should you overheat the car. But if you're overheating the car, you already have problems and are damaging way more than just the header bottle by doing so. Thus, running a stainless bottle isn't minimize anything, as you'd still need to resolve why the car was overheating in the first place, which in the OP's case, would require a trip to the shop. Thus, your logic fails in this regard - sorry.



I believe you've proven that you are not so much interested in answering the OP's questions about which options are most reliable, but instead tried to explain how some of the known existing issues aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be. While you may have a point that certain failures are often overstated and hyped up, the reality is that 12.9 or inconel bolts are stronger and have less chance of failure than a 10.9 bolt. It doesn't matter how often the old ones actually fail, they do fail from time to time. So to "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired" the OP is better served purchasing a car with upgraded bolts.

I'm personally unaware of single car that suffered a TAB failure (bending doesn't count). I've seen a few that were so rusty that they snapped in half upon attempted removal, but I have to wonder if 1) the TA shields were in place on those cars, and 2) how the car was used and maintained by the owners who permitted them to get into such a rusty condition. I've yet to see a failure of a properly maintained TAB. Can you cite one? If there's no evidence of failure, then why is an upgrade warranted? Under your logic, the OP should get the stainless panels upgraded to 316 stainless, as it's more resistant to corrosion than 304, never mind that panel failure isn't a widespread occurrence, but has happened to a few cars. Right? Where do you stop?


Why be proactive with certain failure prone parts and not others? Just because you personally haven't replaced these other items yet doesn't mean they're not due for replacement. Like it or not your brake fluid is old and contaminated with water. The delicate balance of crud currently preventing leaks in your master/slave cylinders is not as reliable as new components with fresh brake fluid.

Because I've actually directly personally seen and also heard of and seen widespread (more than just a few random incidents and anecdotes) empirical evidence of failures of those parts, that's why.

And yeah, I know my clutch fluid (which should be addressed as a part of PM) is contaminated with water. I would have flushed and replaced it with new, but that crud is what's currently preventing it from leaking. As I don't have time to deal with rebuilding the master and slave before DCS, and as it's still functioning just fine, I'll run it like that for the time being. I did so all last year just fine.


If I was the OP and wanted to minimize my risk of having the car end up in the shop due to an eletrical issue I'd get a car with updated electronics. Given the option between two otherwise identical cars where one had the original electronics and the other with updated I'd chose the updated car every single time.

Given how we've all seen via this and other forums how some PO's upgrade the electrical system, I'd personally much rather have an original car that hasn't been hacked by someone else (or even multiple people), and have it upgraded by someone trustworthy to do the job right if I couldn't do it myself. Most of the electrical system upgrades, or at least the ones that I think are worthy of doing, are relatively easy to do and require little skill other than following the printed instructions.


As your own personal experience has shown, a car stored for a lengthy period of time even when stored with meticulous care can still have accumulator failure. Storage is not particularly kind to this component. The OP doesn't want to buy a car and in a short period of time get stranded with a hot start condtion due to a failed accumulator. To best meet his specific needs he should buy car that has already had the fuel system sorted out, including replacement of the accumulator.

Actually, I believe that my accumulator failure was due to the introduction of ethanol blended fuel after it had been dry for so long, as opposed to the storage of the car itself causing the failure. As it's a little difficult to go back and replicate the event using pure gas (ethanol free), this is admittedly only speculative. However, an accumulator failure hardly strands you, as you have the option of swapping plugs to start the car, or waiting for it to sufficiently cool. There was also the hot start relay fix for those who were so inclined to use it.

As far as getting a car that had the fuel system sorted out by professionals, both Michael and George have cars that had the fuel systems sorted out by the top dogs in the game - DMC franchises. And yet, both have experienced just as many fuel issues as I did with my stock setup. So what exactly did that sorting of the system do for those owners, other than command a premium in purchase price and drain their bill folds / bank accounts?

If a car is running well upon inspection and and a thorough test drive (40 minutes +), then IMHO, the fuel system is good to go, or at least as good it gets for our cars anyway.


Power window motors are notoriously failure prone on DeLoreans. My own personal car has broken power windows that I have not repaired yet. The OP doesn't want to deal with inoperable windows and wants to "minimize to the best extent possible the amount of time it spends being worked on or repaired" He should therefore buy a car that has had the window motors/regulators replaced.

No more so than other cars from that era. In fact, my stock/OEM window motors on my DeLorean function better than any era big 3 vehicle that I've personally ever owned, and that's saying a lot IMHO.

If they're working well and weren't exposed to extreme corrosion from water infiltration, then they'll probably continue to work well indefinitely into the future. Definitely something that I wouldn't be replacing until it's broken, as I can live a few days without being able to roll down the window. But that's just my opinion. Unless you're buying a $50k+ DMC/DPI car, then you really don't know how fresh the new motors are, or if they'll outlive properly maintained low use originals, do you?


Like I said before, I didn't expect that I'd be able to change your mind. You seem to be hung up on the fact that certain things have not failed on your car yet so they must not be an issue. You're proud of the fact that you're still using parts that have failed on most other cars. Fix as fail maintenance is an OK strategy if you don't mind the unexpected nature of making repairs on an undefined schedule. PM allows you to chose when your car is out of service to be repaired. The OP is seeking as few repairs as possible with no surprises. I'm not sure if you're being intentionally vague with your examples of rebuilt cars having the same problems as original cars...Were the 'same problems' related to parts that were replaced or original parts that were not rebuilt?

Well, there's the guy from CO with the expensive rebuilt car who had such troubles that he took the car to DPI and spent another boat load of money, essentially rebuilding it yet again. I take it that you've already seen George's comment, so I won't go further into his adventures. There's Michael, who has had a run of fuel system issues lately - just check his posts. In fact, there's not a single person who's an active member of the online community who reported perfect operation of their car after work and upgrades were performed by the pros that I'm personally aware of. If you are, then please cite them here for us so that the OP has a basis of comparison.


What empirical evidence are you referring to?

The evidence contained within the online community. I've read numerous reports about how the plastic bottle is bad, but seen little proof of actual failures, and even then, the owners couldn't claim that their cars were never overheated. I've read time and again how the TABs should be changed, yet haven't seen evidence of a single failure. Etc.

I've directly seen and seen numerous evidence posted by others of electronic failures.

And I've read threads/posts by owners of rebuilt/upgraded cars that have just as many issues and similar issues as original cars do. I've already cited the examples of the CO guy, George, and Michael. There are others as well - just search this and other forums. I've yet to see a single owner of a rebuilt car from anywhere report that 3 or 4 years after the rebuild/upgrades, they're yet to experience an issue outside of expected wear with their car.

If I'm wrong about any of this, then please cite specific examples.



Yes, actually, it does.

If a part isn't "broke" and doesn't get replaced until it actually fails that is called "maintenance."

If you fix something prior to it breaking that is called "preventative maintenance."

When your 30 year old coolant hoses fail and you conclude per your maintenance strategy that it is now time to "fix it", you will be on the side of the road calling a tow truck and later perform maintenance to repair said blown up coolant hose.

If you were to replace that same coolant hose tomorrow you will have performed preventative maintenance to stop such a situation from happening. The OP wants to minimize his chance of being stranding and having to perform maintenance on the fly. Therefore buying a car that has had the most preventative maintenance already performed is in his best interest.

With PM you get to chose when your car is out of service. Fix as fail maintenance doesn't let you chose when parts get replaced.

So George, Michael, the CO guy, and others, all chose when their problems occurred and when their cars were rendered out of service? Hmmm... based on what I read in their threads, I don't believe this to be true or accurate. Either one of us has a reading comprehension problem, or our computer screens are showing us two different accountings of the exact same postings...

And am all for doing maintenance on wear items and doing smart preventative maintenance. That's why I advocate for certain electrical upgrades.

However, I don't think a buyer is best to purchase a car that has already been upgraded - at least not when value for the dollar is a concern. If money is no object though, then buy a completely upgraded car that has a bunch of overbuilt parts that you'll never actually benefit from, and have proven to be no more reliable than a properly maintained original car. At least with the properly maintained original car, you have input and control of the upgrading process, as opposed to potentially getting stuck with a DPO (dreaded previous owner) situation.



I am in no way advocating replacing good parts merely for the sake of replacing them. I'm talking about replacing wear items and increasing overall reliablity by replacing parts that are known to have failure issues. "Perpetuated community lore" items you referenced like the coolant bottle and TABS are still items that have documented failures. Even if the numbes are overstated, failures have still happened and preventative steps can be taken to avoid similar failures. This is the very definition of preventative maintenance. Items on your personal car that you are touting as original are due for preventative replacement, including fluids, hoses, belts. The fact that you intend to wait until these items leak or fail completely is "hardly what anyone would call proper preventative maintenance." Your "if it ain't broke" method is called fix-as-fail maintenance which is a completely different method of maintaining a car than PM.

The two items referenced do not have a voluminous documented failure rate - a few incidental and anecdotal cases have been documented at best, which puts the failure rate at somewhere around 1% if that. If that's conclusive of defectiveness or warranting replacement to you, then so be it. IMHO, it's not, and I'm only here offering my opinion. With the electrical issues that I do believe warrant upgrading, the documented failure rate is more than double.

I've no problem with allowing a belt to fail - that's why I carry a spare with me. But a belt is a wear item, and I would include it as a PM item.

I'm not advocating against PM. I'm just stating that I wouldn't be scared off from a car that had original belts, as having them changed, even by a garage, is cheap, and by initiating the change yourself, you know you're getting a fresh one and you aren't paying a premium for a belt that appears new but could already have a few thousand miles on it.

Case in point - first thing I do after buying any used car is drive it home and change the oil. Doesn't matter if the dealership or PO tells me that they just put fresh oil in - I'm doing it myself for my own piece of mind of knowing exactly how many miles are on the oil, regardless, thus I'd prefer that the PO doesn't put fresh oil in it, unless I witness it, as I'd really rather not pay any premium for that. Same applies for a belt or other regular wear items. But that's me.

One of the strangest moments I ever had selling a used car was when the buyer called me almost a month after the sale had taken place and asked me when the oil was last changed because he wanted to know when he should be changing it. I honestly couldn't believe that he even asked that question, as I just assumed that everyone was like me in this regard (I was very young and naive at the time). Boy did that experience open my eyes up to the mentality of the masses.


All you've provided is your own personal experience... what supportable empiracle evidence have you provided? That when a part fails it is, in fact, in need of replacement?

Your perspective is that you prefer to fix things as they fail, and that you think it's a better strategy than PM because you're not replacing potentially good parts with new parts that might have a higher failure rate than an original part. My recommendation to the OP was that for someone like him who is seeking maximum reliability he should buy a car that has known failure issues already addressed prior his purchasing the car. This will yield better results than buying a mostly original car.

Again, the evidence that's posted here and on other online forums and in related publications. I've given several specific examples. I don't see the need to go into everything. It's all out there, and you can research it on your own. As I said, prove me wrong if you can by citing to specific examples. I've referenced the lack of evidence of actual failure in any significant numbers - if you can prove me wrong, then by all means. Etc.

I'm all about getting the best value for my dollar and making my own decisions about my car, as opposed to buying someone else's potential hack job / mistakes, while paying a premium for it because I was inadvertently led to believe that it represented upgrades/improvements.


Hopefully he sees that a car with brand new parts and up to date PM will give him fewer issues than one with mostly original parts maintained with a fix as fail strategy.

I hope he pursues a car that's right for him, as that will represent the best value for his dollar, however he decides to go.

Cheers! :smile:

[Jonathan]

NEVER EVER buy a high dollar car sight unseen, without at least the right (and round-trip ticket) to walk away from it when you come to pick it up. My comment on this topic is that the airline ticket will be the cheapest and best money you spend on the car. Especially if it gives you the power to renegotiate or walk away from a truly bad car.

I know someone will pipe up about a good experience with long-distance sight unseen purchases, but I find that the bad-experience people won't say anything.

I'll admit it. My car was not even close to what I thought I was buying and I didn't go see it myself beforehand. I asked a coworker (that I didn't really know well either) that was based in that city to go see the car for me, but this didn't help much in the long run. He didn't know what he was looking at/for and he wasn't spending his own money, he was advising me on how to spend mine. My car wasn't really high dollar at $22k originally, but when you double that cost in the next couple years, it certainly turns into one. If I got a re-do, there's no way I buy that car (or perhaps any DeLorean, but that's another matter).

...I didn't read much of this thread, but was drawn to it after seeing some speed-rant-posting tonight in a few different threads by one or two guys. But for this thread, and a couple others, holy sh!t boys, could you get over your need to prove how smart you are or how big your Johnson is? Geez, we get it. You both have valuable opinions and you're both likely right in a number of ways. I think my page down button on my keyboard started smoking trying to get past all the ego. None of us like getting corrected nor criticized, on car theories or spelling... no matter who was right or wrong. Leave it at the kiddie table and come back to join the rest of the adults.

[Rich_NYS]

...I didn't read much of this thread, but was drawn to it after seeing some speed-rant-posting tonight in a few different threads by one or two guys. But for this thread, and a couple others, holy sh!t boys, could you get over your need to prove how smart you are or how big your Johnson is? Geez, we get it. You both have valuable opinions and you're both likely right in a number of ways.

HAHAHA....I couldn't keep up, and I'm a speed-reader!

[Rich_NYS]

And THAT ladies & gentlemen, is what happens when really smart dudes throw down! :strongman:

Whew! That was awesome.....

[NightFlyer]

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=27542&d=1400728279

[Mark D]

lol...yeah I think we've got that topic covered. It was really interesting to see all your point-counter point arguements. I'm surprised anyone else was interested enough to read through everything. I didn't expect we'd get anywhere really, but you made some good points and I hope you at least see where I'm coming from (even if you disagree.) :thumbup:

[NightFlyer]

lol...yeah I think we've got that topic covered. It was really interesting to see all your point-counter point arguements. I'm surprised anyone else was interested enough to read through everything. I didn't expect we'd get anywhere really, but you made some good points and I hope you at least see where I'm coming from (even if you disagree.) :thumbup:

Absolutely, your points are all 100% valid, and I wholly agree with them, just not absolutely. :thumbup:

Too many factors involved for this to be labeled an objective situation where there's only one right answer, at least IMHO anyway. That's why I wanted to offer a different perspective that often isn't raised by others (I know on many of these points, I'm often a lone or singular voice).

One thing I forgot to mention that I feel definitely warrants mentioning is that sometimes the upgraded or 'improved' parts aren't as good or robust as the factory original parts. The reproduction dash is one thing that I've seen many complaints about on this and other forums. As another example, the reproduction fuel sending unit was known for only ever reading 3/4 full on the gauge, being bouncy, failing to trigger the low fuel warning lamp, etc. Not that I don't commend Houston for making the effort and actually offering something that does work, as I always do and appreciate their efforts, even when they sometimes come up short (it's really no different than pattern parts when you put it in context to the rest of the automotive world and aftermarket, sometimes they nail it and sometimes the best they can do is close enough) - just saying that many times, it pays to have the original stock part in well preserved condition as opposed to the so-called improved part.

Room for all voices, perspectives, and opinions here :biggrin:

[Mark D]

One thing I forgot to mention that I feel definitely warrants mentioning is that sometimes the upgraded or 'improved' parts aren't as good or robust as the factory original parts.


Yeah I agree with this, especially in regards to the dash... I haven't decided if I'll just redye my original or swap over to the reproduction I bought. My original one hasn't cracked yet and it seems to have better fit and finish than the injection molded repro, aside from the fact that the original one has the tendancy to turn brown in the sun.

[Nick774]

You got to want it. We found a De Lorean in such bad shape it was nothing more than a corpse, believed to have been destroyed. We spent two years worth of pain, gain, sweat, and drain but throughout it all its absolutely worth it, especially if you are mechanically inclined. Doing our own rebuilding this allowed us to purchase everything necessary to rebuild it entirely. Frame off, replaced frame, replaced motor, suspension, bushings, AC etc. all on a tight budget. Go to home depot and pick up an inexpensive electric welder if you have a steady hand. Everyone will think your nuts yet so damn cool real quick! Photograph everything you do make yourself a step-by-step album and organize, organize, organize. Just got my car back from Toms garage tonight and I'm looking to fire it up in the next couple of days. A mechanically skilled significant other is a huge help too. Go for it with a very open mind and infinite patience and its the ultimate joy. And not to mention a community of helpful and friendly people. And please post lots of pictures on here

[aotmfilms]

Here are some of the things to look for in my opinion.
1, Fuse box is behind the passenger seat. lift up the cover and make sure it is not a rats nest.
2, make sure the frame is not rusted by the front drivers side tire. (leaking break or clutch fluid)
3 make sure the frame is not rusted by the engine (these are common spots)
4 make sure the coolant bottle is stainless steal. (The original plastic one, i think are past there life.)
5 if you are buying a manual, make sure the clutch line is stainless steal.
6 check the "drive shafts" Make sure the rubber CV boots are not cracked
Other then those, just check the normal stuff. Make sure it runs, looks and drives good.

Once you buy it, be ready for;
Lots of pictures, (i make sure i have sun glasses in the car at all times.)
lots of the same BTTF quotes.
maintenance is on all cars, but take it to someone who knows what a Kjet fuel injection system is.

If you take a girl out on a date in it, down play the car, and let her think all the people looking at the car is because of her.

Thank you for the info! :)

[aotmfilms]

A new victim...er....soon to be owner :).

Welcome to the community. I read most of this thread, and here are my thoughts:

1. That $20k difference = you're paying for dealing with a car from a DeLorean vendor. Nothing wrong with that, but that is a lot of ki-zah to say "it came from DMC-X".

2. The warranty sounds attractive, but inevitably, it will run out, and you'll be on your own or paying $$$$ to have them fix it - if you decide to take it to strictly DMC vendors. Not to say this is a bad thing. I had my auto trans serviced by DMC-MW, and I was VERY pleased with their work.

3. I try not to get too much into the "get ready for hell" mode with soon to be owners for two reasons:

a. There's no need to be a "sky is falling" kind of guy.

b. New owners will learn, soon enough, that there is a balance of fixing vs driving this car.

That being said, for whatever reason, my car's K-Jetronic was ALWAYS wonky in one way or another. 1 week it was great, another week it was weird, another week it misfired, another week it straightened itself out, another week I had manual fuel gauges on the car diagnosing things, another week more stuff broke, another week it ran again, and another week it acted wonky again. It never seemed to be solid as a rock for me. It was ALWAYS something.

Now, my car seemed to be the exception. Most - not all - but most other owners seem to have good experience with the KJet fuel system. For me, the KJet was about as dependable as waiting for a boat to arrive at a train station. I don't say all of these things trying to discourage you; I say them to get you mentally ready - remember - dreaming is nearly always better than the reality.

Make no mistake, the car is 33 years old, things will break. It just happens. It's ok though - we have a pretty solid community and excellent members here and at DMCToday that are willing and able to help.

Words of advice:

1. Be patient. I cannot stress that enough.

2. Buy good tools - not cheap ones. Craftsman/Kobalt/Husky/Stanley tools are welcome members in my garage. Air tools will SERIOUSLY save your butt - believe me. Remember, this is your car - take awesome care of it.

3. If stuck, Florida has a solid number of owners. Providing pizza/take out/ free lunch or pizza and a 12 pack of beer will typically be very welcoming to other owners for help/tech day if you need assistance.
4. See the big picture. Do not focus on fun things like fancy radios, ground effects, color changing lights, and remote lock/unlock kits. Make sure your car is in solid shape - brakes, cooling system, and fuel system mainly. All the toys won't mean a dang thing if you cannot start it and drive it.

5. Never, ever, ever throw anything away unless it is snapped in half or broken beyond recognition. We have seen some members in a nasty jam because they threw things away they thought could not be used or would be easy to replace.

6. Emoticons here help a lot. We have had some mountains from molehills happen due to things being misconstrued.

7. Make friends both here and face to face. Fellow owners can and will definitely provide some solid support and save your butt in a time of uncertainty.

8. It's just a car. It's a very special car - but - it is not a rocket ship. As long as you keep oil and coolant in it, pretty much everything can be fixed. You may get stumped and frustrated. Walk away - cool off - don't keep working while angry or out of frustration. You will break things. The most steady and surgical hands can become sledgehammers when working out of emotion. It can be fixed. It will get fixed. Maybe not now or tomorrow, but it will get fixed.

Looking forward to you joining us as a fellow owner soon! Explore these forums thoroughly; there's a lot of information here.

All good points in BOLD. Thank you for sharing your knowledge as I am in the same boat as the OP except for the fact that I am in Michigan vs. the OP in FL. Thanks again.
--Aotmfilms

[aotmfilms]

http://store.delorean.com/p-10550-the-illustrated-buyers-guide-to-delorean-automobiles.aspx

Best $29.95 you'll ever spend on anything Delorean related.

Got it, and the parts manual, and the Mechanics Manual. :D

[aotmfilms]

I'll admit it. My car was not even close to what I thought I was buying and I didn't go see it myself beforehand. I asked a coworker (that I didn't really know well either) that was based in that city to go see the car for me, but this didn't help much in the long run. He didn't know what he was looking at/for and he wasn't spending his own money, he was advising me on how to spend mine. My car wasn't really high dollar at $22k originally, but when you double that cost in the next couple years, it certainly turns into one. If I got a re-do, there's no way I buy that car (or perhaps any DeLorean, but that's another matter).

...I didn't read much of this thread, but was drawn to it after seeing some speed-rant-posting tonight in a few different threads by one or two guys. But for this thread, and a couple others, holy sh!t boys, could you get over your need to prove how smart you are or how big your Johnson is? Geez, we get it. You both have valuable opinions and you're both likely right in a number of ways. I think my page down button on my keyboard started smoking trying to get past all the ego. None of us like getting corrected nor criticized, on car theories or spelling... no matter who was right or wrong. Leave it at the kiddie table and come back to join the rest of the adults.

Not trying to be an A$$ but WHO purchases a car and does not go SEE it???? That BLOWS MY MIND! If you can afford to pay 22k for a car, you could afford to pay $600 bucks for a hotel room and a plane ticket/car rental. Me? I'm DRIVING to DMCMW, not going to buy a car without feeling it, sitting it in and driving it. Not gonna happen, especially for 25 to 35k range. If I do not get one there then I will DRIVE to Paducah to see one there (600 miles one way), and if I don't get that car, I will FLY to DMCH or DMCFL and look at one there (1,000 miles or more). Notice that I will probably be in the red a couple of thousand dollars in my search? BUT I will know what I want. Anybody can BS you on the phone, MOST people will not BS you to your face.

Your money, your rules. My money, my rules and my rules say I need to see the car run, I need to drive the car, sit in it and FEEL the car. So I apologize if I have offended you. Just me.

In saying this, this is how I am looking at a purchase and my expectations. I have been researching this for the past year and this is what I have come up with. Kind of a "Mission Statement"

Let me know if you think I'm out of wack on this, please.

My determinations/expectations (DMCMW and Private Sell):

For 20k, good engine, good trans, fair suspension (a strut to be gone is expected), AC blows hot air.
For 25k, good engine, good trans, good suspension (struts, steering ok), all safety stuff in good order, AC blows somewhat cool air, able to sit in seats without a spring up your a$$. Some documentation on previous repairs requested.
For 30k, all the above, but the AC needs to be cold like a pissed off chick in the middle of winter. New tires, doors open correctly.
For 35k it better be toe crinkling good too without a warranty. Seats in good condition, no cracks, Passenger window works, driverside thinks about working most of the time, no cracks in the dash.
For 40K it needs to be able to, while I'm sitting in it, transport me back to 1982, when I first sat in a new one, come with some type of warranty, BOTH windows work.
For 45K, All the above, new stuff like HID lights or some aftermarket stuff needs to be on it, Stage II comes to mind. Excellent documentation on previous services.
For 50K, All the above, new 14" tire in the luggage area, no dings at all, not even a scratch. Car starts all of the time without issue.
For 55K Better have Paris Hilton in the passenger seat hooking me up.
For 60k and above, BTTF Conversion, Paris Hilton in the passenger seat with Irina Shayik, both hooking me up :D

(Some of this is me being a jokester, some of it is not, but this is my expectation for DMCMW or Private Sell is for the car to start when I turn the key and all safety issues taken care of or atleast informed about prior to purchase).


Thank you for reading.
--Aotmfilms

(Sorry OP if I hijacked your thread, no offense but this thread has helped me out, Thank you)