Delorean Radio Upgrade Decision

[TripleZeroFilms]

Hello all,

I'm getting ready to do some pretty heavy interior restoration and one of those jobs is a new sound system (as mine is completely stock). While I've not yet made a decision on speakers front or back (suggestions are welcome), my main issue has been the radio itself. The way I see it I have 3 options:

1. Buy the $200 DIN plate from DMC and then install a modern radio. The simplest solution, but not the cheapest or the most original looking (which would be nice to maintain).

2. Find/buy a Reto Radio and install it in the current plate. It should be noted that the "model 1" radios that matched our car have been discontinued and replaced with new ones that don't look right. In addition, some on this forum have expressed displeasure with their longevity.

3. Find someone who can completely gut and/or modify my existing Craig (the oldest style) with new tech and an AUX port. It's LCD screen is currently nonfunctional, but it otherwise functions fine (for 30yo radio).

I'm curious about any thoughts or experiences of those who may have experience with this topic. I'll be ordering parts shortly, so I need to decide if I should spring for the DIN before I do.

[mluder]

Dave Graham has had pretty good success in refurbing both old Craigs and ASI radios. He has a guy he uses in Vancouver BC where he lives. As part of this he has an AUX input installed for plugging a media player in-line using the devices headphone output. The schematic for how to do this is available somewhere on this message board. I might be able to find it in my records as well.

That being said, the Craig radios only output like 10 watts per channel (I'm sure someone will correct me) which is pretty week for any real volume. The amp starts to distort pretty quickly at higher volume. Also, the stock speaker sizes, including the rears are the wrong size and shape to get any real bass response. Some have added sub-woofers and an amp to the cubby behind the driver's seat and gotten good results an improved bass response. I suppose you could modify the Craig deck to have the amplifier stage removed. In other words diver the preamp signal to a separate outboard amplifier to get better available power to drive the speakers.

What it really boils down to is what you're after... Original appearance or quality sound.

In my car, I have the original Craig deck and have replaced all the speakers with the Infiniti Kappa line that was the choice de jour a couple years ago. Does it sound great? No. It's functional. I am thinking of adding a cubby sub and amp this summer and upgrading the wiring to heavier gauge and providing separate negative speaker leads (stock uses a common negative wire) to see if it improves. I like the stock look of the Craig so I don't really want to replace it and I can't bring myself to have the internals modified.

So... I don't have any real answer, just a couple more things to think about.
Good luck with your endeavor.

Cheers
Steven

[TripleZeroFilms]

Thanks for the input Steven!

I really do appreciate the look of the stock Craig, and would like to keep it as close to that as possible. I'm by no means an audiophile, but I also don't want to spend a ton of $$$ and wind up with a weak system. I'll look for the AUX diagram on here as that does sound promising, but I bounce back and forth on doing such a permanent modification (part of the reason I solicited for advice). If I were to continue to use my original radio (modded or not), I'll still have to get the display fixed as its impossible to find a station blind.

Truth be told, if I could get some decent sound quality and an AUX input while maintaining my originality I'd be happy. Bluetooth functionality would be nice too, but I feel that might be out of reach for anything but a new radio. As I said, I'm in the decision making process and welcome all advice and experience on the subject.

[Notifier]

I installed the Retro Sound radio and quite frankly not satisfied with the sound quality of the unit. Almost like I am missing something, and adjusting the bass, treble, and loudness settings does nothing. I'm using good quality speakers (the name escapes me but they were ones that were highly recommended on here) and rewired everything.

One thing to note, if you are going to install a Sirius/XM unit, the antenna will sit nicely on top of the metal piece for the center dash before you reinstall the dash cover. And the signal goes through just fine!

[Flicky]

You can keep the stock head unit in there and still be modern. Likely it is better to just buy one from someone that doesn't want their old one. Then you have a few choices for how to modernize your radio. The simplest way, under $100, is to use a FM integration device like these. Then you can just run your Pandora/mp3/hands-free from your phone.

Wired: http://www.amazon.com/iSimple-IS32-Universal-Integration-Smartphones/dp/B004613FCE
Bluetooth (w hands-free kit): http://www.amazon.com/iSimple-ISFM2351-TranzIt-Music-Steaming/dp/B00FRU5UNA/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A18CQ5FFITKTLU

If you want to build a "system" while retaining your stock head, then I'd use a DSP like a Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty ($120). This will let you balance inputs from various devices and drive your amps with minimal signal loss. You can also get the new 3Sixty.3 that will give you an EQ to correct the ancient electronics in that 30 year old beasty. If you do go this way I'd highly recommend having a pro shop give you an estimate first. Some are not familiar with brands that they don't carry. I'm always amazed at how fast car electronics evolve, so it really does pay to run into a local shop with a good reputation. This would be the $1000+ option.

[NightFlyer]

Keep the Craig unmodified - get the display fixed if you want, but other than that, leave it alone and use it solely for a tuner/cassette player.

As you want better sound, you'll need an external amp to drive whatever speakers you end up getting - just make sure that you get one that has an auxiliary input. That way, you can run a DAP without having to go through the Craig at all.

As for speakers, if you're sticking to the stock/factory locations only, the quality of the Infinity Kappas are tough to beat, and the Polk db series are a great value.

[Tomcio]

[...]the Craig radios only output like 10 watts per channel (I'm sure someone will correct me) which is pretty week for any real volume. The amp starts to distort pretty quickly at higher volume.

Steven, here I come to correct you ;)
The specs for the power amp in the Craig unit are:
Po = 5.8W (typ.) at Vcc = 13.2V, RL = 4Ω, THD = 10%
There is another thread about speaker choices and I did some calculations there. In short, the Craig unit is pretty much useless. We can expect about 4W max per side (two speakers) at 10% harmonic distortions. 0.5% THD at 0.5W. If you care about the quality of the sound get a decent head unit. Even with an external amp the Craig will not give you ANY quality.

[DavidProehl]

If you aren't an audiophile, I'll throw in another vote for keeping the stock radio. I replaced my stock speakers with Inifity Kappas and installed the iSimple FM Modulator (http://www.amazon.com/iSimple-IS31-Antenna-Modulator-Aftermarket/dp/B002U5XPBE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1397661794&sr=1-1&keywords=isimple+fm+modulator) ($25 shipped) for aux in.

Yes it isn't super powerful, but at 75% volume it hurts my ears anyway so I don't need more power. I also bought the DMC-CA kicker subwoofer and enclosure to balance it out though I haven't installed my amp yet.

It doesn't sound as perfect as a modern unit, but for a very subtle difference in quality I personally thought it was worth maintaining the original appearance of the Craig.

[mluder]

Steven, here I come to correct you ;)


:thumbup2:

BTW - For what it's worth, I'm going to investigate an outboard power amp that can accept a speaker level input to drive my Infiniti Kappas and possible storage compartment sub. I'l let everyone know what I find.

Cheers
Steven

[Flicky]

In the quest to turn your car into the scooby-doo mystery van, for some reason these electronics make me think of an old van with a "booster" and a stereo with a record player, I have found this thing.

http://www.amazon.com/Lepai-LP-269FS-Watts-Amplifier-Remote/dp/B0073WTG6M/ref=cm_cd_al_qh_dp_i

It is only $33.50 (with prime shipping) and it has a 4x45w amp that can take line level input. It also has a SD card reader that you could copy of bunch of your Bananarama albums too and then play them right from there, it even has a remote control. Now, the most interesting thing on it is that USB port. It is said that you can use a Bluetooth dongle there and then stream audio to the unit. This could actually be the all in one thingy to make a stock radio perform a little better and give you integration with modern audio devices.

Example bluetooth dongle:
http://www.amazon.com/SoundBot%C2%AE-Bluetooth-Universal-Transmitter-Compatible/dp/B00F25Z0FS/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ADMFJEYBD7NHZ

[TripleZeroFilms]

If you aren't an audiophile, I'll throw in another vote for keeping the stock radio. I replaced my stock speakers with Inifity Kappas and installed the iSimple FM Modulator (http://www.amazon.com/iSimple-IS31-Antenna-Modulator-Aftermarket/dp/B002U5XPBE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1397661794&sr=1-1&keywords=isimple+fm+modulator) ($25 shipped) for aux in.

Yes it isn't super powerful, but at 75% volume it hurts my ears anyway so I don't need more power. I also bought the DMC-CA kicker subwoofer and enclosure to balance it out though I haven't installed my amp yet.

It doesn't sound as perfect as a modern unit, but for a very subtle difference in quality I personally thought it was worth maintaining the original appearance of the Craig.

This strikes me as a very interesting option as perfect sound quality isn't a necessity. I know you touched on the sound strength, but what about clarity? Does the sound ever get too much static from competing signals?

Also, until this thread, I hadn't heard of the infinity kappas before but everyone seems to be bringing them up for a good stock locations replacement. I'll definitely have to check them out as I don't plan on adding speakers to any new locations. Do they make sizes to fit both front and back (A quick google search brings up the 3.5 front speakers but no 4 x 10 rear)?

[DavidProehl]

This strikes me as a very interesting option as perfect sound quality isn't a necessity. I know you touched on the sound strength, but what about clarity? Does the sound ever get too much static from competing signals?

Also, until this thread, I hadn't heard of the infinity kappas before but everyone seems to be bringing them up for a good stock locations replacement. I'll definitely have to check them out as I don't plan on adding speakers to any new locations. Do they make sizes to fit both front and back (A quick google search brings up the 3.5 front speakers but no 4 x 10 rear)?


I have Infinity 52.9 speakers (http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-529I-Inch-Two-Way-Speakers/dp/B00190Z7Z8) in the rear stock locations and Infinity 32.9 speakers (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-tyBTZo4B6N3/p_108329CF/Infinity-Kappa-32-9cf.html) in the front. Both of these are no longer being produced, but fit well in the stock locations. You should be able to find them if you look around. I found my 32.9's on eBay in brand new condition.

Because I'm using an FM modulator, there is some light static at high volume. The only way around that is to modify your Craig with an aux soldered in.

[vps3922]

Here are the instructions (from Todd) (http://1561project.com/?page=ipod-craig) I found a few weeks ago on how to add an aux to your Craig and install a switch to disable the receiver unit when using the AUX. Sounds like a great plan and I will definitely try it on my Craig.

[NightFlyer]

1) You're better off replacing the 4x10s in the rear with round speakers. 5.25" fit fine. I believe that at least one person squeezed 6" speakers in the stock rear locations, but had to significantly alter the speaker's basket to make them fit.

2) If you're going to use an external amp to drive all the speakers, then you can use the 2 ohm versions of the Infinity Kappas without issue, however, if you're using the Craig's op amps to drive them, then you'll want to stick with 4 ohm speakers only. To get the most out of new speakers though, you'll want to use an external amp to drive them, especially if you're retaining your the Craig as a HU.

3) No matter what 5.25" speaker you decide to go with for the rears, they're best used for mid-bass to high frequencies only. If you want bass and sub-bass frequencies, you'll want to add an amplified sub of some sort. The driver's side cubby is a popular location to mount a sub.

4) If you're going with a 4.1 setup (4 coaxial speakers and a sub), then you may as well get a 5 channel amp to power everything. Again, if you get an amp with an aux input, you can then use the Craig solely for tuner and cassette functions and not have to modify it at all. You'll also get better sound quality by by-passing the Craig and running your DAP (digital audio player) directly into an aux capable external amp.

[Flicky]

Have a look at these plates that let you easily put a 5.25 into a 4x10 speaker hole. Note that Fieros have the same speaker. I have attached a file that has the template the Fiero guys made. You can use thin wood, like balsa, for it.

Plastic version of the plate you can buy:
http://www.tlg-auto.com/fiero-4x10-into-5-25-speaker-adapters/

If you really want to use a 4x10 speaker then Memphis Audio is the best made today. Because 10 inches is so much longer than 4, it makes the speaker move funny...imagine if you had something touching the speaker all the time, it will never sound perfect like a round.
http://www.memphiscaraudio.com/products/speakers/power-reference-coaxial-speakers/15prx4102/

26606

[Tillsy]

Very interesting Flicky!!!

[vps3922]

...Again, if you get an amp with an aux input, you can then use the Craig solely for tuner and cassette functions and not have to modify it at all. You'll also get better sound quality by by-passing the Craig and running your DAP (digital audio player) directly into an aux capable external amp.

Wow! I learned something new. This solution never crossed my mind. I guess I have to do some investigation into Amps with full power and AUX input. I guess that there are AMPs that turn themselves off if no signal is provided...or I could tie it into the ignition circuit. That sounds so much better and less intrusion for the Craig.

I never understood why AMP manufacturers would not simply produce an AMP with a Bluetooth connector and release an iOS and Android APP to play the music and do all the adjustments (EQ, volume, etc.) through the APP. It would save them so much money that they have to pour into the development of a HU electronics and nearly everybody has a smartphone these days. But that is another topic.

[papanoel]

Have a look at these plates that let you easily put a 5.25 into a 4x10 speaker hole. Note that Fieros have the same speaker. I have attached a file that has the template the Fiero guys made. You can use thin wood, like balsa, for it.

Plastic version of the plate you can buy:
http://www.tlg-auto.com/fiero-4x10-into-5-25-speaker-adapters/

If you really want to use a 4x10 speaker then Memphis Audio is the best made today. Because 10 inches is so much longer than 4, it makes the speaker move funny...imagine if you had something touching the speaker all the time, it will never sound perfect like a round.
http://www.memphiscaraudio.com/products/speakers/power-reference-coaxial-speakers/15prx4102/

26606

Hey Flicky have you used this bracket yourself?

[Grover]

Hey Flicky have you used this bracket yourself?

Also, what is the point of the bracket if the rears are just held in with clamps around the bracket? Couldn't you just put the round speakers in the same bracket (bend it a bit and get a bigger clamp)?

[papanoel]

Also, what is the point of the bracket if the rears are just held in with clamps around the bracket? Couldn't you just put the round speakers in the same bracket (bend it a bit and get a bigger clamp)?

yeah i don't see the point either.