hard to shift into first

[acaciolo]

I've now owned 3886 for about 24 hours and it has been great (except for the damn hot start issue..but a fix is on the way for that.) I'll be taking it to my amazing european mechanic for some TLC (wires, plugs, belts, brakes, radiator fan, accumulator, etc.)

But I have 1 annoying problem that I was hoping some of you might have seen. The clutch (other than being kinda stiff) seems good, but I am going to bleed it and put in fresh fluid.

the annoyance is trying to get into first gear. It worked for a while..and works sometimes...but other times, I just hit a brick wall and it wont' it won't go into first. No problem with any of the other gears.

Linkage adjustment? I am going to have them change the trans oil also. I've seen lots of different suggestions about redline mtl, non synthetic, synthetic, etc. Suggestions on oil?

thanks!

tony c.

[DCUK Martin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng6-l2fhPXw

[acaciolo]

I don't know if I could've gotten a more perfect answer!

thanks for posting that.

tony c

[David T]

If you continue having problems with 1st gear it will be the roll pin in the transmission. Flush and bleed the brakes also. Since you are new (and I don't know where you are in PA) the DMA is having it's annual Spring Social and Tech session next weekend in Hackettstown, NJ. You may want to show up. Go over to the website for more information. As for the oil, any good, premium-branded 75W-90 gear oil will work but Redline MT-90 is also good. A little bit more expensive and not in every store. Just be sure to remove the level plug BEFORE removing the drain plug and having the right adapter helps. Very often the plugs are in there very tight and if you do not use the correct adapter you can have a lot of trouble getting them loose. BTW, you may also have worn rubber bushings in the shift linkage making it hard to shift and/or the pivot bolt may need some lubrication.

[Jonathan]

I don't know if I could've gotten a more perfect answer!

thanks for posting that.

tony c

Yea, definitely! Great video Martin! I have an automatic but still really enjoyed watching and learning a few things I did not know. Thanks!!

[acaciolo]

thanks david!

I am hoping to make it on the 26th. not sure if the new delorean will..but I hope to!

tony

[kings1527]

Great video, Martin. Perfect demo and explanation. Thanks a lot for posting this!

[DMCMW Dave]

If you continue having problems with 1st gear it will be the roll pin in the transmission. .

I can't say that I've ever seen a roll pin problem in first gear. Just second gear.

BTW the wrong oil will cause this problem.

Will it go into first if the engine is off, and/or if you put it in another gear first without releasing the clutch?

[acaciolo]

Hey Dave,

the won't go into first problem is intermittent. I've only had the car for 24 hours, but it seems as if it was worse as it got warmer, but I can't be sure. I did try going into other gears first, and that didn't seem to help. I didn't try it with the engine off. It truly feels like I am hitting a wall.

what do you say is the right oil? I've heard redline MTL is really good. And then I heard it wasn't. your thoughts? I want to make sure I use the right oil!

tony



I can't say that I've ever seen a roll pin problem in first gear. Just second gear.

BTW the wrong oil will cause this problem.

Will it go into first if the engine is off, and/or if you put it in another gear first without releasing the clutch?

[acaciolo]

4 redline options. My guy swears by mtl 75w80, but he isn't by any means a delorean expert!


MT-90 75W90 GL-4 Gear Oil
Popular in Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi, VW/Audi, Lotus Elise/Exige, Toyota

MT-85 75W85 GL-4 Gear Oil
Recommended for Nissan 350Z and 370Z (also most Maxima, Altima & Sentra), Mitsubishi Evolution, Hyundai, and Kia applications

MTL 75W80 GL-4 Gear Oil
Popular for BMW, Honda and Acura, Ford Focus, late-model Mini Cooper, Land Rover/Range Rover LT77S, Dodge & Jeep NV1500, NV3500 , NV3550 and NV5600 truck transmissions

75W90 NS GL-5 Gear Oil
Designed for transmissions and transaxles - helps to slow synchros for easier shifting across a broad temperature range

[vwdmc16]

Ill swear by MTL. It really helped my 2-3 shift as well. I agree with Martin, check the linkages

[DMCMW Dave]

My best results are actually with very generic 80W90. This ain't a race car.

[acaciolo]

what? I thought this was a race car!!! I actually have a drag race planned against my wife in her fiat 500c.

tony c

[Dangermouse]

Unless it's windy ......

[JohnZ]

...... on a slope....

[NightFlyer]

I've now owned 3886 for about 24 hours and it has been great (except for the damn hot start issue..but a fix is on the way for that.) I'll be taking it to my amazing european mechanic for some TLC (wires, plugs, belts, brakes, radiator fan, accumulator, etc.)

But I have 1 annoying problem that I was hoping some of you might have seen. The clutch (other than being kinda stiff) seems good, but I am going to bleed it and put in fresh fluid.

the annoyance is trying to get into first gear. It worked for a while..and works sometimes...but other times, I just hit a brick wall and it wont' it won't go into first. No problem with any of the other gears.

Linkage adjustment? I am going to have them change the trans oil also. I've seen lots of different suggestions about redline mtl, non synthetic, synthetic, etc. Suggestions on oil?

thanks!

tony c.

Hot start is more than likely being caused by the accumulator. Expected and not a huge deal. It's actually not that bad of a job if you use the two wrench scissor method to break the fittings free from the accumulator. I personally recommend getting the direct (full sized) stock/OEM replacement Bosch accumulator, as opposed to the much smaller ones that most vendors are currently offering (the exception being DPI, who was still offering the full sized accumulator last I heard anyway). If you're obtaining the part yourself, the direct stock/OEM Bosch accumulator is cheapest found from Summit Racing here:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bch-0438170029

While doing the accumulator, you'll want to change the accumulator hoses - cut the old ones off the barbs with a razor blade. Gates fuel injection hose with some injection hose specific hose clamps is the current go-to replacement.

As far as a tune up goes, I offer this advice:

If the cap on the car looks good and it's currently running fine, then I personally recommend staying with whatever you have on there as opposed to swapping it out with a new one, as the new caps that are currently being offered are of a significantly cheaper build quality than the older caps. The rotor remains virtually unchanged though, so if you want to swap that out with a new one, go ahead.

As for the wires, if you still have the original Bougicord wires, and if they look good, test fine, and are currently running the car just fine, then keep those as well - they're actually a very decent / high quality wire. If you must replace them though, then you'd be hard pressed to get better wires than MSDs. The Bosch replacement wires work fine as well, but aren't as nice as the MSDs.

For spark plugs, it's Bosch HR6DS (silver electrode) or HR6DC (copper electrode) only - don't compromise or run a different brand (even if others attest to others working OK).

As for brakes, unless you're experiencing an issue or noticing a hydraulic leak somewhere, then I'm assuming that you're merely looking at putting on new pads. EBC Red Stuff pads are considered the top of the line if you're a spirited/hard/performance braker. If not, then a ceramic set from any of the vendors will do just fine.

As for the radiator fans, unless you're having an issue, the factory fans are more then proficient and do just as good of a job (if not an even better job) as any of the aftermarket solutions that are currently being offered. So keep 'em unless they don't work or are exhibiting signs of dying (noisy bearings, drawing more amperage than spec, etc).

As for your first gear problem - are you saying that it won't let you put it into first at all, or that you can't get it into first without it grinding? My guess is that your car still has the nylon (plastic) clutch line that runs from the master to just before the slave cylinder. In hot weather or upon the car warming up to regular running temperature, the stock/OEM line is known to swell, thus limiting the amount of actual engagement of the clutch, which effects 1st gear and reverse the most, with the other gears to follow as/if the line continues to degrade. Before you mess with the linkage at all, replace that line with a vendor offered braided stainless sheathed line. Also, if the clutch fluid in the reservoir is greyish/blackish, then that means it's old and dirty. Right now, the dirt is actually preventing leaks from occurring in the system. When you flush it, replace it, and bleed it, the new fluid could potentially start to leak around worn/degraded master/slave seals and o-rings. So, while you're addressing the clutch, it wouldn't be a bad idea to pull both the master and the slave, and rebuild them. Unless the system is currently leaking, then I don't think that replacement is warranted - a clean up and rebuild should suffice both just fine. Also, don't forget to clean the reservoir. If the line connecting the reservoir to the master looks/feels bad, or is currently sweating, then you'll want to replace that hose as well - the popular replacement options are a piece of transmission cooler hose or a piece of tygon hose. I believe that the ID you'd need for this is 5/16", but don't quote me. Simply measure the old one when you pull it. DO NOT use a piece of fuel injection hose though.

If you're still having problems with the clutch, only then do we need to start looking elsewhere, such as with the linkage/crossgate or even inside the gearbox.

As far as gearbox oil goes, I'm with DMCMW Dave - generic 80w90.

Best of luck and enjoy! :thumbup:

[refugeefromcalif]

Hot start is more than likely being caused by the accumulator. Expected and not a huge deal. It's actually not that bad of a job if you use the two wrench scissor method to break the fittings free from the accumulator. I personally recommend getting the direct (full sized) stock/OEM replacement Bosch accumulator, as opposed to the much smaller ones that most vendors are currently offering (the exception being DPI, who was still offering the full sized accumulator last I heard anyway). If you're obtaining the part yourself, the direct stock/OEM Bosch accumulator is cheapest found from Summit Racing here:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bch-0438170029

While doing the accumulator, you'll want to change the accumulator hoses - cut the old ones off the barbs with a razor blade. Gates fuel injection hose with some injection hose specific hose clamps is the current go-to replacement.


The OP mentioned in his Wanted thread that he has a new accumulator on the way. Which one?...
We don't know if his car has the new fuel pump/sender combo. It could just need an inline check valve.
When my D had it's hot start issues, it turned out to be both.

Martin, Loved the video on the linkage! :thumbup:

George

[NightFlyer]

The OP mentioned in his Wanted thread that he has a new accumulator on the way. Which one?...
We don't know if his car has the new fuel pump/sender combo. It could just need an inline check valve.
When my D had it's hot start issues, it turned out to be both.

Martin, Loved the video on the linkage! :thumbup:

George

Just checked out the other post now - not sure what accumulator he ended up ordering.

I'm pretty sure that his car has a Bosch fuel pump, or possibly a Hervey unit of some sort, and while the internal check valves on those haven't seen the kind of failure rate that the new DMCH pump/sender combo unit has experienced, they can/do fail as well. Installing an external inline check valve on the feed line certainly doesn't hurt anything, is easy to do, is super cheap, and pretty much eliminates future fuel pump check valve concerns. The cadillac of external inline fuel pump check valves is the SMC valve sold by US Plastics Corp:

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=85394

http://www.dmctoday.com/showthread.php?276-K-Jet-DMCH-Fuel-Pump-Sender-Combo-External-Inline-Check-Valves&p=3911&viewfull=1#post3911

[NightFlyer]

One thing I forgot to mention - try double pumping the clutch before attempting to put it into 1st/reverse when it's acting up. If that seems to help, then it's definitely a hydraulic issue, and most likely the line

[David T]

One thing I forgot to mention - try double pumping the clutch before attempting to put it into 1st/reverse when it's acting up. If that seems to help, then it's definitely a hydraulic issue, and most likely the line

By all means, if the car has the plastic hose get it out. The symptom of the plastic hose is you can shift OK when cold but once the car heats up it gets difficult to shift into ANY gear. You cannot get full clutch release because the hose swells and reduces the amount of travel of the slave cylinder.

[DCUK Martin]

I don't know if I could've gotten a more perfect answer!


Let's just say you aren't the first person to pose the question ;)


If you continue having problems with 1st gear it will be the roll pin in the transmission.


As others have said, the roll pin problem is unique to 2nd because it retains the spring-loading of the selector fork in that direction - it won't affect any other gears.

As per my video, try lifting the gearstick over slightly as if for reverse, and selecting first. If it goes in then, your problem is an adjustment of the crossgate.




BTW, you may also have worn rubber bushings in the shift linkage making it hard to shift and/or the pivot bolt may need some lubrication.

Worn bushes just make for a sloppy/rattly shifter but won't prevent selecting the gears. The pivot bolt should be a regular check item, as in my video around the 6:50 mark.

[acaciolo]

thanks again for all the great advice! I did order the accumulator on thurs and it shipped right away. I think I paid a few bucks more than summiit ($119 maybe?) but it came with all the hoses. I got it from john.

I also ordered the clutch line and a few other things as per your suggestion today (including the check valve.)

I'll keep you posted..

[NightFlyer]

thanks again for all the great advice! I did order the accumulator on thurs and it shipped right away. I think I paid a few bucks more than summiit ($119 maybe?) but it came with all the hoses. I got it from john.

I also ordered the clutch line and a few other things as per your suggestion today (including the check valve.)

I'll keep you posted..

The difference between Summit and John/DMCH isn't just price. With Summit you'd get the full sized accumulator for $114, whereas with John/DMCH, you're actually getting a much smaller accumulator (one designed for 4 cylinder engines). Granted, they'll both perform the same task, and the smaller one should admittedly work just fine. No biggie - just something to keep in mind in the future :smile:

Sounds good.

Also, in the meantime, if you're still experiencing a hot start problem and don't have time to wait for the engine to cool in order to be able to start it up again, you can swap the plugs on the WUR/CPR (Warm-up regulator / control pressure regulator) and the CSV (cold start valve) to immediately start the car. Once running, quickly swap the plugs back to normal or you'll flood the engine.

Best of luck and have fun with your new DeLorean! :thumbup:

[acaciolo]

or I can just leave it running! I am only driving it a little now anyway. I'll take it out more next week.

ps...I can't help but want it to be perfect, so I ordered the larger one from summit this morning!