No Start

[thirdmanj]

I've just replaced the fuel accumulator, and now my baby won't start. She'll catch for a second or two and then die out. I've checked the lines, no kinks, no leaks. Whats wrong? HELP!

[Masaes727]

I am probably wrong in my opinion here. But I'll try anyways. I can see two possibilities. One it may not have had enough chance to prime and build up pressure to keep the car running, doubtful. Two would be that you have tried to start it enough times that the car has been flooded or by turning the key forward to let the engine prime it has gotten flooded.

[David T]

See if it will start doing the plug swap.
David Teitelbaum

[sean]

See if it will start doing the plug swap.
David Teitelbaum

Try that or jump the rpm relay and see if it will start

[DeLorean03]

Ok guys. Let's fill him in on what you're telling him. With 2 posts to his name, we have no idea if he knows what "the plug swap" means, or if he even knows what the RPM relay is. Let's fill in the blanks a bit.

First thirdman, get in your car. Turn the key to where the lights all come on (battery light specifically) but you are not trying to turn the engine over (you're not trying to start the car). This gives the fuel pump a moment to prime. Now, try turning the engine over (in other words, turn the key as far as possible as if you're trying to start the car), and pump the accelerator pedal while you do it (assuming you have an auto transmission). Sometimes, you can get the engine to catch by pumping the pedal, and the car may hold on long enough to start and idle properly. This would help get fuel through the fuel system - something that may not be the case if you just replaced the accumulator, and the fuel system hasn't had a chance to get fuel through the components.

If that doesn't work, do "the plug swap" as mentioned earlier. If you do not know what that means, this is what it means. There are two devices in your engine bay - the cold start valve and the control pressure regulator. Nevermind what they do, these are pictures of each:

The control pressure regulator: it'll be on the driver's side valve cover of the engine. It'll be directly north of the tube where you pour new oil in whenever you do an oil change (I'm assuming you've done oil changes, if not just look for the tube with a "little black hat" on the end. Right above that tube is the location of the control pressure regulator):
http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/warmupreg-066.jpg

The cold start valve:
http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/cold-start-loc.jpg

Now, you'll note there are "plugs" on each device - a blue one on the cold start valve (CSV) and a "grey" one on the control pressure regulator (CPR). Take the blue one off of the CSV, and take the grey one off the CPR. Hook the grey one onto the CSV, but DO NOT put the blue one on the CPR. Now, go try to start your car. It should start, and it'll be kind of "rough running." While this is happening, put the plugs back in their respective places (blue on CSV, grey on CPR). The car should hang on and idle smoothly after a couple seconds.

If that doesn't work, trying "jumping the RPM" relay. The RPM relay is located in the electrical compartment behind the passenger's seat. It looks like this:

http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/rpm-relay-new-old-style-gre.jpg

Once you've located it, unplug it from the electrical connector it's hooked up to. It'll only go back on one way specifically, so don't worry about how to reconnect when the time comes. From there, you need to devise a "jumper" - a wire with 2 male spade connectors - one on each end of the wire. Spade connectors typically are rectangular in shape. Once you've made the jiumper, "jump the RPM relay" as seen in this picture:

http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/rpm-relay-jumper.jpg

This, in essence, forces the fuel pump to run even if you are not trying to start the car. Once you've jumped the RPM relay as seen in the picture above, try to start your car. If it starts in this case, your RPM relay may be working intermittently. Unhook your jumper, re-hook the RPM back up to the electrical plug, and try to start your car normally. If it starts, good deal. If not, might need to look into a new RPM relay.

I hope I didn't come off as rude to the people who have made suggestions - I just wanted to fill in the details.

[sdg3205]

That last post by J. would be handy to have in the "How To" for future quick reference on no start threads.

thirdmanj, keep us posted. We'll git 'er goin.

[thirdmanj]

Well I got her going..... it was my bust. I was trying to reuse the old lines without knowing about the properties involved with the original "sweated" ones (I had two kinks that I hadn't seen). A rookie mistake. ALWAYS REPLACE OLD LINES! Delorean03, thank you so much for your very detailed post, I'll store it for future use, I may need it. Well she's a happy girl now, while she was up I also replaced the fuel filter, that one was much easier. But again, thanks again all, soooo much!

[TTait]

Have a nice drive!

[DeLorean03]

Delorean03, thank you so much for your very detailed post, I'll store it for future use, I may need it.


Thank you, sir (: . I am glad you got your car running. Was it the old rubber lines that were kinked on your new fuel accumulator? I just wanted to make sure I understood what happened, as any experience is good to know!

And thank you to those of you saying nice things to me about recent posts both publicly and privately. I know it can be very intimidating working on the DeLorean by yourself with no one to turn to and ask "What do we do now??" I just want to help whenever I can, and hey, if someone else's advice is what gets you up and running - by all means - I want to know and learn!

It's all about working together and helping each other out!

[thirdmanj]

That fuel filter I replaced was only two years old, and the gas coming out of it looked very clean, but I guess it was time, there is a noticeable difference in her performance. The really exciting news is the newly installed fuel accumulator! HOLY SHIT what a change! I barely even have to tap the ignition and that baby starts right up! I noticed she was being wonky on hot starts, so I figured WTH, replace the accumulator. Sure enough, perfect. I highly recommend dropping your old one and replacing it with a new one... AND USE THE NEW HOSES DMCH SENDS WITH IT!!! :wink:

[jerrysony]

Ok guys. Let's fill him in on what you're telling him. With 2 posts to his name, we have no idea if he knows what "the plug swap" means, or if he even knows what the RPM relay is. Let's fill in the blanks a bit.

First thirdman, get in your car. Turn the key to where the lights all come on (battery light specifically) but you are not trying to turn the engine over (you're not trying to start the car). This gives the fuel pump a moment to prime. Now, try turning the engine over (in other words, turn the key as far as possible as if you're trying to start the car), and pump the accelerator pedal while you do it (assuming you have an auto transmission). Sometimes, you can get the engine to catch by pumping the pedal, and the car may hold on long enough to start and idle properly. This would help get fuel through the fuel system - something that may not be the case if you just replaced the accumulator, and the fuel system hasn't had a chance to get fuel through the components.

If that doesn't work, do "the plug swap" as mentioned earlier. If you do not know what that means, this is what it means. There are two devices in your engine bay - the cold start valve and the control pressure regulator. Nevermind what they do, these are pictures of each:

The control pressure regulator: it'll be on the driver's side valve cover of the engine. It'll be directly north of the tube where you pour new oil in whenever you do an oil change (I'm assuming you've done oil changes, if not just look for the tube with a "little black hat" on the end. Right above that tube is the location of the control pressure regulator):
http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/warmupreg-066.jpg

The cold start valve:
http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/cold-start-loc.jpg

Now, you'll note there are "plugs" on each device - a blue one on the cold start valve (CSV) and a "grey" one on the control pressure regulator (CPR). Take the blue one off of the CSV, and take the grey one off the CPR. Hook the grey one onto the CSV, but DO NOT put the blue one on the CPR. Now, go try to start your car. It should start, and it'll be kind of "rough running." While this is happening, put the plugs back in their respective places (blue on CSV, grey on CPR). The car should hang on and idle smoothly after a couple seconds.

If that doesn't work, trying "jumping the RPM" relay. The RPM relay is located in the electrical compartment behind the passenger's seat. It looks like this:

http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/rpm-relay-new-old-style-gre.jpg

Once you've located it, unplug it from the electrical connector it's hooked up to. It'll only go back on one way specifically, so don't worry about how to reconnect when the time comes. From there, you need to devise a "jumper" - a wire with 2 male spade connectors - one on each end of the wire. Spade connectors typically are rectangular in shape. Once you've made the jiumper, "jump the RPM relay" as seen in this picture:

http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/rpm-relay-jumper.jpg

This, in essence, forces the fuel pump to run even if you are not trying to start the car. Once you've jumped the RPM relay as seen in the picture above, try to start your car. If it starts in this case, your RPM relay may be working intermittently. Unhook your jumper, re-hook the RPM back up to the electrical plug, and try to start your car normally. If it starts, good deal. If not, might need to look into a new RPM relay.

I hope I didn't come off as rude to the people who have made suggestions - I just wanted to fill in the details.

First of all thank you delorean3 for your detailed explanation.
I have the same problem. Car cranks but no starts. I did the "plug swap" and the car started, but if I remove the feet of the accelerator it dies again (automatic). If then I put the plugs back in their respective places it won´t start again. Any suggestions?
I have to mention that it all started since I replaced the injector seals Part #:102631, replaced the air intake gaskets GASKET KIT
102574 and repair the GSKT-LWR HSG/T/V Part #:102772. Has something to do with the distributor?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Rather then writing down pin numbers to know where to jump the RPM relay to power the fuel pump. Just remember to jump the two heavy wires. These happen to be brown and white/purple.

Now if your going to run the car on a trip without the RPM relay, you need a three way jumper, jumping the two heavy wires and the double wire pin (double yellow/red). That way your fuel pump and lambda system gets powered.

[David T]

First of all thank you delorean3 for your detailed explanation.
I have the same problem. Car cranks but no starts. I did the "plug swap" and the car started, but if I remove the feet of the accelerator it dies again (automatic). If then I put the plugs back in their respective places it won´t start again. Any suggestions?
I have to mention that it all started since I replaced the injector seals Part #:102631, replaced the air intake gaskets GASKET KIT
102574 and repair the GSKT-LWR HSG/T/V Part #:102772. Has something to do with the distributor?

The "plug swap" is only meant to get it started, once running you must quickly put the plugs back in their previous spots or it won't run very well. Since you replaced some gaskets you need to make sure you have no vacuum leaks or forgot to hook up any vacuum hoses.

[Ron]

I did the "plug swap" and the car started, but if I remove the feet of the accelerator it dies again (automatic). If then I put the plugs back in their respective places it won´t start again. Any suggestions?Sounds like you need a helper to un-swap the plugs for you??

Once you have confirmed there are no vacuum leaks and everything is hooked up stock, you might try removing the breather and giving it a shot of ether under the air flow sensor plate (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/vwdmc16/dmc/20121007_191134.jpg).

If you don't have ether, you can press the plate down as far as it will go (quickly) and immediately release it.
This makes all of the injectors spray fuel, so don't do it too many times or you will definitely flood the engine.

[jerrysony]

Sounds like you need a helper to un-swap the plugs for you??

Once you have confirmed there are no vacuum leaks and everything is hooked up stock, you might try removing the breather and giving it a shot of ether under the air flow sensor plate (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/vwdmc16/dmc/20121007_191134.jpg).

If you don't have ether, you can press the plate down as far as it will go (quickly) and immediately release it.
This makes all of the injectors spray fuel, so don't do it too many times or you will definitely flood the engine.
I just looked a loose hose. Is it ok or should it be attached to the pipe next to it? Could it be the cause?http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/25/61feff6e60563b7c658f756da8a750ce.jpg

[jerrysony]

I also noticed that the fuel lines 7 and 10 were swapped (see diagram below).
The thing is I unswapped them and now the car won´t start neither with the plug swap method nor using starter liquid right on the plate.
Any reason why the PO did that? Should I re-swap them?36985

[dn010]

That is just a "vent" hose.


I just looked a loose hose. Is it ok or should it be attached to the pipe next to it? Could it be the cause?http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/25/61feff6e60563b7c658f756da8a750ce.jpg

[Jonathan]

That is just a "vent" hose.

Depends which hose was being circled. I agree with you on the vent hose on the left coming from the top of the control pressure regulator.

The hose coming off the backside of the oil filler plug there looks to be like it also is cut off. It might just be the angle of the photo and it could be pointing straight down, but that one generally is plugged into the air filter housing. As part of the evaporative system to keep all fumes or gases contained, it recycles those fumes back into the air inlet system. I have heard others say this won't affect air or vacuum as it should be on the side of things before it gets metered, but I personally don't like to look past a known connection that isn't per the design and assume it isn't having an impact. Might be small, might be no impact at all, but is also very easy to connect it the way it was supposed to be.

3698636987

EDIT: Also, Jerry, what's that hose in the upper right hand corner of your photo, just to the right of the blue plastic connector? It looks to me like a hose with a split in it. The brownish diamond-y shaped part that looks like a split in the hose, but can't really tell.

[jerrysony]

Johnatan. That's preciselly the hose that goes out of the csv tÃ*o the distributor. The one that was swapped

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[Jonathan]

Johnatan. That's preciselly the hose that goes out of the csv tÃ*o the distributor. The one that was swapped

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So, a fuel line? Is it compromised in some way or is that just the way the image looks?

[dn010]

Take a picture of the whole engine, not so close as the last, maybe we can see what's going on.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[jerrysony]

Take a picture of the whole engine, not so close as the last, maybe we can see what's going on.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
I hope this helps. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/25/a6b24a9e39f8f128105fccf99b8ee963.jpg

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[Ron]

I also noticed that the fuel lines 7 and 10 were swapped (see diagram below).
...
Any reason why the PO did that? Should I re-swap them?Yes. Go by the diagram. ...Welcome to the PO Hater Club lol
That could explain a lot-
Connecting the FD control pressure port to the CSV would normally cause control pressure to go to primary pressure when the engine was hot or running (~71psi; same as when checking pressures and shutting the valve...; Lean). While cranking cold, the CSV would be open, allowing the control pressure to drop drastically. Normally that would push it way rich, BUT, since the CPR is connected to a FD primary pressure port (meant for the CSV), the primary pressure would drop drastically as well (E.G. ~32psi on a cold engine @ 70F) -- Not enough to open the injectors (~55psi). If I have it right here, it could only get fuel from the CSV.

At this point, I'd at least re-check the easy to get to plug wires for spark and the easy injectors for fuel when pressing the air sensor plate down. If OK and it still don't start, I'd suspect the plugs were fowled by now?? (Check the easy ones using the coil wire, or spare plug wire, straight to the coil...).

[Ron]

I can't tell from the pic here...did you re=route everything by the diagram already?


EDIT:
Might not matter now, but just in case-

...using starter liquid right on the plate.You should press the plate open and spray the ether under it....

[jerrysony]

Hi Ron.
I already re-routed everything according to the diagram. No hose is compromised. Already tried spraying starter liquid over the plate, and still nothing.
I have spark, will re-check for spray on injectors over the weekend. At this point it seems that the oil got mixed with fuel, so I have a long way ahead.
Thank you all for your help.

[Ron]

:thumbup:

Sounds like an oil change and plug cleaning/replacing to me then...

[Jonathan]

The PO hater club. Nice one. I have membership in that shitty club, lol.

Jerry, pictures are good. Not to be a pain, but could you take a few more where you kind of capture the entire engine bay as well as maybe sections, like in thirds from left to right? Trying to get the camera angle to "look down" on the engine helps get the bigger picture (pardon the pun!).

I think that hose I mentioned earlier with a split in it might be the wrap on part of a wiring harness?

If you can post a few more pictures, taking a couple of the throttle spool and idle microswitches and whatnot could also help. The fuse and relay area behind the passenger seat would be a good place to get confirmation it's properly set-up too.

Lots of guys here to help... it's Friday night and all. Must be a bunch of middle aged guys with kids at home or someone is watching the baseball game while they type :)

[Rich]

Hi Ron.
I already re-routed everything according to the diagram. No hose is compromised. Already tried spraying starter liquid over the plate, and still nothing.
I have spark, will re-check for spray on injectors over the weekend.....

Are we missing some of the basics here?

LINK: Factory-Troubleshooting-Charts-Engine-Will-Not-Start (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3142-Factory-Troubleshooting-Charts-Engine-Will-Not-Start)

Suggesting you start back at Step 1 of the factory troubleshooting chart C1 and be sure the spark is really OK as specified here.

There is "spark" and there is "good spark". See chart for the simple "good spark" test method. Move on down the chart only after that's settled.

In any case the linked Ignition (C1) and Fuel (C2) charts are handy for systematic solutions to non-starts.

[jerrysony]

Thank you rich. I'll check it out and keep you all informed.
You have been very helpful johnatan and Ron. It really feels you're not alone !

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