Brand New OE Injectors WON'T START

[Shark Pilot]

As the title states, I put brand new Bosch OE injectors in today, which is a pain in the booty. It fires up then dies, fires up then dies, fires up...sputters...then dies. I know I should have read a procedure for this, but they are a bolt-on item and looked easy enough. Got the crush gaskets on well and no fuel leaks. She just doesn't want to run and it ran BEFORE I put these new injectors in, just not very well. Any ideas?:ehh::headscratch:

[Delorean Industries]

CO adjustment probably needs done or there is another underlying issue present. What is the condition of the other fuel system components? Everything original?

[Nicholas R]

Chances are your mixture was set to your old injectors and whatever their capability was. Now the new ones spray significantly different with the mixture screw in the same place (probably richer). Pull a plug and see if you're running rich.

I pretty much only ran open loop with the PRV so I don't know exactly how much lambda compensates, but I know that the range of too lean to run to too rich to run was less than 180 degrees on that screw without it.

[David T]

Sounds like it is starting on the CSV and as soon as it shuts off (when you stop cranking) the fuel injectors are not squirting. Could be the old ones leaked enough for it to run and now the new ones are not leaky so it won't run. My guess is the fuel pressure is too low. Bad fuel pump, plugged fuel filter, bad hose, problem with the fuel regulator. This also can happen if you somehow mixed up fuel hoses. One person switched his feed and return and couldn't get it to run. Not likely in your case if you only touched the injectors though. Another possibility is somehow the frequency valve is not running. maybe you knocked the plug loose. Try some Ether and it will tell you if you are too rich or too lean. Too rich and you have to adjust the mixture screw. Too lean and either the fuel pressure is too low or the Lambda is not working. Pull an injector and see if it is squirting. Try it while pushing down on the air sensor plate.

[Shark Pilot]

CO adjustment probably needs done or there is another underlying issue present. What is the condition of the other fuel system components? Everything original?

What is a CO adjustment? Just to backfill the story, the coil (Pertronix), coil power wire and coil wires are brand new with 8mm silicon wires, injectors are new, spark plugs are new Bosch HR6DC, engine is a Stage II upgrade and all other fuel components are fairly new. I have a brand new accumulator and fuel filter to install tomorrow, but I'm thinking the car should run as is since it did before I changed out the injectors. Is this just a case of turning it over and stepping on the gas till it warms up a bit and starts to flow well? Never replaced injectors before and 2 out of the 6 I had were bad. Even with that the car ran, just not well, and fired up. Now it wants to fire up right away, like usual, then just dies. I got it to cough a few times but its 10:40pm here and I don't want to wake neighbors. :confused2:

[Shark Pilot]

Sounds like it is starting on the CSV and as soon as it shuts off (when you stop cranking) the fuel injectors are not squirting. Could be the old ones leaked enough for it to run and now the new ones are not leaky so it won't run. My guess is the fuel pressure is too low. Bad fuel pump, plugged fuel filter, bad hose, problem with the fuel regulator. This also can happen if you somehow mixed up fuel hoses. One person switched his feed and return and couldn't get it to run. Not likely in your case if you only touched the injectors though. Another possibility is somehow the frequency valve is not running. maybe you knocked the plug loose. Try some Ether and it will tell you if you are too rich or too lean. Too rich and you have to adjust the mixture screw. Too lean and either the fuel pressure is too low or the Lambda is not working. Pull an injector and see if it is squirting. Try it while pushing down on the air sensor plate.

I have no idea where the mixer screw is and I've read in this forum it's not something that's a good idea to mess with. However, I'll buy the "might be running rich with new injectors" theory since they are new and the mix was set to the old injectors. I'll try the squirt test, but it would seem odd to me that brand new injectors wouldn't be working perfectly well. The car was running before and these new injectors are the only change. As far as mixing up fuel lines, NOPE. Did the injectors one at a time and I have the braided steel setup so each one has a dedicated length.

[NightFlyer]

Whenever changing primary fuel system components in the engine bay (FD, CPR, injectors), you'll want to (or need to) adjust the CO.

If your lambda system isn't functioning (or present/operational), or if you don't have a dwell / duty cycle meter, then the best way to set the CO is by pulling an injector, placing it in a jar, jumping the fuel pump, and turning the screw so that it's ultimately set at a point right before the injector cracks open and releases fuel. The optimal adjustment will usually be extremely close to that position (within a 1/4 turn either way). Of course, the best way to set CO is by exhaust gas analysis, but not many home mechanics have those machines available to them. The next best way is via reading the dwell / duty cycle of the lambda system.

The CO screw is located under a hole that's immediately in front of the FD on the housing of the mixture unit. The hole is capped by an anti-tamper plug installed by the factory, so if yours has never been drilled out before, then you'll need to do this to access the screw - just be careful not to go too deep with your drill bit and damage the fulcrum/screw. Once you drill through the anti-tamper cover, you should be able to thread a screw into the plug and pull it out that way.

The CO screw is adjusted via using a 3mm allen wrench. Once you have the screw set, you must plug the hole, as it otherwise will act as an un-metered air/vacuum leak.

Below is an image of the location of the adjustment screw, with a brass handled plug in the hole.

http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/air-meter-adjustment.jpg

[Dangermouse]

Are the injectors the only thing you have changed since it last ran ?

You mentioned a slew of new parts and it wasn't clear when they were installed.

[NightFlyer]

Never replaced injectors before and 2 out of the 6 I had were bad.

How do you know it was the injectors that were bad, and not the Fuel Distributor? When you did your tests, did you make sure to change the position of the fuel lines on the fuel distributor, so as to absolutely narrow it down to those two injectors being bad?

[Shark Pilot]

Whenever changing primary fuel system components in the engine bay (FD, CPR, injectors), you'll want to (or need to) adjust the CO.

If your lambda system isn't functioning (or present/operational), or if you don't have a dwell / duty cycle meter, then the best way to set the CO is by pulling an injector, placing it in a jar, jumping the fuel pump, and turning the screw so that it's ultimately set a point right before the injector cracks open and releases fuel. The optimal adjustment will usually be extremely close to that position (within a 1/4 turn either way). Of course, the best way to set CO is by exhaust gas analysis, but not many home mechanics have those machines available to them. The next best way is via reading the dwell / duty cycle of the lambda system.

The CO screw is located under a hole that's immediately in front of the FD on the housing of the mixture unit. The hole is capped by an anti-tamper plug installed by the factory, so if yours has never been drilled out before, then you'll need to do this to access the screw - just be careful not to go too deep with your drill bit and damage the fulcrum/screw. Once you drill through the anti-tamper cover, you should be able to thread a screw into the plug and pull it out that way.

The CO screw is adjusted via using a 3mm allen wrench. Once you have the screw set, you must plug the hole, as it otherwise will act as an un-metered air/vacuum leak.

Below is an image of the location of the adjustment screw, with a brass handled plug in the hole.

http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/air-meter-adjustment.jpg

Ok I REALLY appreciate these quick responses, but although I'm in the military, please stop using acronyms as I have NO IDEA what they stand for. I'm new to DMC. That having been said, that picture was very telling: 1./ Because that exact metal looped rod I extracted from my engine when I replaced the #1 Fuel Injector. I noticed it sitting there under the intake and thought maybe it was FOD (foreign object deposit) from the engine renovation or something. 2./ I have a bright shiny flathead bolt already located in this spot I'm suppose to drill out. I'm assuming this was accomplished by Bauerle Automotive as part of the engine upgrade. So THIS is what you say I might need to unscrew and the 3mm adjustment head is under there?

[Shark Pilot]

How do you know it was the injectors that were bad, and not the Fuel Distributor? When you did your tests, did you make sure to change the position of the fuel lines on the fuel distributor, so as to absolutely narrow it down to those two injectors being bad?

Uh, nope. The two in question were just gummed up with rust so I thought they were bad.

[Shark Pilot]

Are the injectors the only thing you have changed since it last ran ?

You mentioned a slew of new parts and it wasn't clear when they were installed.

Yeah the injectors are the ONLY change thus far and I'm having this starting problem. I didn't know you had to adjust the CO (still no idea what that is, though I know where it is) when changing out a fuel part. I have NOT done this. I suppose I have to now?

[NightFlyer]

2./ I have a bright shiny flathead bolt already located in this spot I'm suppose to drill out. I'm assuming this was accomplished by Bauerle Automotive as part of the engine upgrade. So THIS is what you say I might need to unscrew and the 3mm adjustment head is under there?

Correct - remove the bolt and there is a 3mm allen headed adjustment screw under it.

Sounds like the car originally had the adjustment hole plugged by the handled rubber plug. Either it got loose or someone lost it under the intake, and instead of searching for it or replacing it with something similar, tapped the hole and installed a bolt instead to seal the access hole.

Sorry about the acronyms:

CO - carbon monoxide adjustment
CPR - control pressure regulator
FD - fuel distributor

[Shark Pilot]

Correct - remove the bolt and there is a 3mm allen headed adjustment screw under it.

Sounds like the car originally had the adjustment hole plugged by the handled rubber plug. Either it got loose or someone lost it under the intake, and instead of searching for it or replacing it with something similar, tapped the hole and installed a bolt instead to seal the access hole.

Sorry about the acronyms:

CO - carbon monoxide adjustment
CPR - control pressure regulator
FD - fuel distributor

Oh thank you this makes MUCh more sense to me. My Lambda system was working (I think) before the injector swap, but I assume I still have to perform this injector/jar technique you described to set the flow. I just don't know how to "jump the pump" or how to adjust the flow to just before the injector cracks open for fuel distribution. Ugh. This is getting complex. I just wanted the damn thing to run better. This whole mechanical injection thing has got me flummoxed.

[NightFlyer]

Uh, nope. The two in question were just gummed up with rust so I thought they were bad.

So then you never actually knew if the old injectors were bad or not. And you also don't really know the condition of the fuel distributor. If you're still have problems once you get the CO adjusted, then you'll have to manually test the injectors and fuel distributor - it's the only way to positively confirm that each are functioning properly (unless you have the specialized Bosch K-jet equipment at your disposal).

To test the injectors and fuel distributor, you must remove all the injectors from their bungs and place them into jars marked 1-6, corresponding to the injector that you're placing into each jar. You then jump the fuel pump to run via the RPM relay (located in the relay/fuse compartment behind the passenger seat). You then test the system by manually depressing the air metering plate at various levels per test - start out with just a little bit and gradually work your way up to simulating a full throttle condition (plate fully depressed). During each test, you're measuring the amount of fuel that each injector releases and inspecting the spray patterns. Best way to confirm flow is by lining up the jars on a known level surface at the conclusion of each test and visually comparing the levels of fuel in the jars. Exactly (or close to) the same amount of fuel should be produced by all the injectors during each test. The fuel will need to be dumped from the jars at the conclusion of each visual comparison test. If during your testing you're getting uneven flow results from some injectors, then you need to swap the port(s) on which the suspect injectors' hose(s) are connected to on the fuel distributor with a known good port. If upon re-running the test with the different port assignments on the fuel distributor, the suspect injector(s) changes to a previously good identified injector, then you know that the fuel distributor is malfunctioning and will need to replaced/rebuilt. If, however the suspect injector(s) remains the suspect injector(s), then you know that it's indeed the injector(s) that is/are causing your problems.

[NightFlyer]

I didn't know you had to adjust the CO (still no idea what that is, though I know where it is) when changing out a fuel part. I have NOT done this. I suppose I have to now?

You only have to do this when changing out system components that could effect the pressure level at the injectors - the fuel distributor, primary pressure regulator, control pressure regulator / warm-up regulator, and the injectors.

Changing anything else in the fuel system - pump, accumulator, filter, check valves, cold start valve, frequency valve, etc - do not require a CO adjustment to be made.

[NightFlyer]

Oh thank you this makes MUCh more sense to me. My Lambda system was working (I think) before the injector swap, but I assume I still have to perform this injector/jar technique you described to set the flow. I just don't know how to "jump the pump" or how to adjust the flow to just before the injector cracks open for fuel distribution. Ugh. This is getting complex. I just wanted the damn thing to run better. This whole mechanical injection thing has got me flummoxed.

It's actually not that bad once you become accustomed to it and understand the functioning of each component - hang in there :smile:

If your lambda system is working, then you can adjust the CO using a dwell / duty cycle meter (if you have one or will be purchasing one), but you must first get the car idling before you can 'fine tune it' that way.

So, first thing's first - we need to get it idling (even if it's a crappy idle, just so long as it stays running on its own).

New injectors are bound to have a greater spring resistance vs old/worn injectors, so the CO is more than likely set too rich for the new injectors. Turning the adjustment screw counter-clockwise will lean out the mixture. Turn it counter-clockwise by a 1/2 rotation, remove the wrench, plug the hole (the rubber plug or a golf tee is much more convenient than constantly having to screw and unscrew a bolt), and try to start it and see what you get.

[Rich]

Sorry about the acronyms:
CO - carbon monoxide adjustment
CPR - control pressure regulator
FD - fuel distributor

And for new or recently new owners there is an acronym reference in the Resources section:

LINK: 1775-DeLorean-Acronym-List (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1775-DeLorean-Acronym-List&highlight=acronyms)

[NightFlyer]

If you don't have a dwell / duty cycle meter, then you'll want to baseline the adjustment of the screw by pulling an injector (one suffices for this purpose so long as you're not messing around with the adjustment for too long), placing it in a jar, jumping the RPM relay to run the fuel pump continuously, and setting the screw to a point just before the injector cracks open and starts dribbling fuel out. You do this by turning the screw either clockwise or counter clockwise in small increments while watching the flow from the injector that you have in a jar. In your case, you'll probably have to turn the screw counter-clockwise. When turning the screw, do so slowly and in small increments. Also make certain that you're only turning the screw, and not applying any downward force/pressure on the screw/fulcrum.

As previously stated, the RPM relay is located in the relay/fuse panel just behind the passenger seat under the parcel shelf - lift the parcel shelf carpet and you'll see a black plywood panel cover secured by plastic thumb twist turn retainers. Remove the plywood panel and you'll see the primary relay/fuse blocks. The plywood panel cover is slotted into the front wall, so you'll need to slide it towards the engine as you're lifting it to remove it.

As to how to jump the RPM relay, see this:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1155-How-To-Jump-the-RPM-Relay

[Ryan S.]

Try spray pattern test with your old injectors vs new ones to rule out injectors as others have suggested. I replaced mine and I noticed that new ones didn't really work. They were clogged and I had use brake cleaner spray to clear whatever was blocking them inside. Someone told me that new ones have some sort of mesh inside and it has to dissolve with gas when used for a first time.

[DMCMW Dave]

A few posts back you mentioned "drilling out" the CO adjustment plug. There is more to this than you might think. The "plug" is a small slug of aluminum with a very hard steel disc at the bottom. If you try and drill it out one of two things will happen:

--the bit will hit the steel and wander around, hogging out the hole so big that the plug wont' fit (big air leak)
--you will force the bit through the disc and will then damage the allen threads on the adjuster so your tool won't fit.

Better to drill the hole very small, STOP when it hits the disc, the thread a sheet metal screw in to the hole you drilled and use that as a puller to extract the plug. It will pull out with enough force.

PS there should be no reason to adjust the CO due to simply changing the injectors, unless it was adjusted in an attempt to compensate for bad injectors, which it won't. The only reasons to adjust it:

--New Fuel Distributor installed
--new warmup regulator installed
--Adjusted it to make up for some other guy who adjusted it when he didn't need to (or adjusted it to unsuccessfully compensate for other bad parts)

[Shark Pilot]

A few posts back you mentioned "drilling out" the CO adjustment plug. There is more to this than you might think. The "plug" is a small slug of aluminum with a very hard steel disc at the bottom. If you try and drill it out one of two things will happen:

--the bit will hit the steel and wander around, hogging out the hole so big that the plug wont' fit (big air leak)
--you will force the bit through the disc and will then damage the allen threads on the adjuster so your tool won't fit.

Better to drill the hole very small, STOP when it hits the disc, the thread a sheet metal screw in to the hole you drilled and use that as a puller to extract the plug. It will pull out with enough force.

PS there should be no reason to adjust the CO due to simply changing the injectors, unless it was adjusted in an attempt to compensate for bad injectors, which it won't. The only reasons to adjust it:

--New Fuel Distributor installed
--new warmup regulator installed
--Adjusted it to make up for some other guy who adjusted it when he didn't need to (or adjusted it to unsuccessfully compensate for other bad parts)

PARTIAL CONCLUSION: Yeah I wasn't big on drilling anything. I got the car started after a lot of coughing and sputtering. I DID have to adjust the CO. In fact I couldn't start it until I did. The advice I got to counter-turn the CO was incorrect. One quarter turn clock got it sputter-idling long enough for me to exit the car, shove the 3mm alan wrench in the CO hole and adjust it till the car actually started idling fairly smoothly. From there it was all about the idle adjustment in tandem with the CO adjustment. HOWEVER, my car runs like crap and I just don't know enough about how to adjust these three screws all at the same time. I got it idling at 1100 with some difficulty. When it's warm (or cold really) it will start up and run, just not well. I have some hesitation, well A LOT when on the road. I got it better than it was for sure, but it's still running like crap. I'm going to give Merry Motors in MA a call. This has gone beyond my expertise which were limited to begin with. Also apparently new injectors have some sort of preservative that has to be worked out by fuel flow so the sputter thing is normal to an extent, but there was a posting in this thread that talked about my CO being adjusted for the previous injectors: CORRECT. I know this now. :wrenchin::tantrum:

[Ron]

FYI- The manual calls for those "three screws" to always be shut on a DeLorean. I suggest you hook up a dwell meter, warm the engine up, and reset the CO to specs. This is a touchy adjustment...You would be lucky to accomplish turning it a little one way and then right back to the same spot and wind up with the same reading, even with several tries! (Don't forget to take readings while the access hole is blocked off.)
When done,the hole should be re-sealed (a screw will probably leak).

[mluder]

From there it was all about the idle adjustment in tandem with the CO adjustment. HOWEVER, my car runs like crap and I just don't know enough about how to adjust these three screws all at the same time. I got it idling at 1100 with some difficulty.

Adjusting the idle should be another no-no, unless you are correcting for something a previous owner did. In effect the dwell (duty cycle) ant the idle are computer controlled and should have been set at the factory. When the throttle is at rest the idle control micro-switch should be engaged and the idle speed motor combined with the idle computer controlling a set idle around 750 RPMs +/- 10 RPMs.

Now if the previous owner or a mechanic who didn't know the system mucked with the set screws on the throttle butterfly then it's possible the butterfly is not closing completely when at rest. It's also possible that the throttle linkage arm from the spool to the throttle valve is out of adjustment.

I would begin by disconnecting the linkage arm - it's held in place with a small wire retainer clip and ball joint. The linkage arm is part 25 identified here. 27080
Don't loose the retainer clip. Once this is disconnected you have eliminated it from holding the throttle open when it should be closed at idle.

Next, loosen the two set screws on the throttle body control arm. One controls the rest position and the other controls the idle micro-switch engage. See this image. 27082
Once these are backed off, the butterfly should be fully closed. Then follow the procedure outlined here... http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5064-Adjusting-Idle-Speed&p=71917&viewfull=1#post71917

I would caution against having a mechanic unfamiliar with DeLoreans look at this. They tend to do more harm than good. Find other local owners through a club affiliation or this board. They either know the cars and how to work on them and can help or they know a mechanic who works on their car and knows the ins and outs.

My two cents... I cam into ownership just 3 years ago and have learned enough about this car to be dangerous as I new (and later confirmed) that most shops couldn't help me. I have since then done some extensive restoration work on my engine. This message board and it's members, as well as friends from the Pacific NW DeLorean club, and even the DMC shop in Seattle have been indispensable sources of help. With time and patience you should be able to figure these things out. Take your time and go slow and take lots of pictures as you go.

Cheers
Steven

[NightFlyer]

A few posts back you mentioned "drilling out" the CO adjustment plug. There is more to this than you might think. The "plug" is a small slug of aluminum with a very hard steel disc at the bottom. If you try and drill it out one of two things will happen:

--the bit will hit the steel and wander around, hogging out the hole so big that the plug wont' fit (big air leak)
--you will force the bit through the disc and will then damage the allen threads on the adjuster so your tool won't fit.

Better to drill the hole very small, STOP when it hits the disc, the thread a sheet metal screw in to the hole you drilled and use that as a puller to extract the plug. It will pull out with enough force.

When I was using the term 'drill out,' it was in relation to the anti-tamper cover on the plug. In fact, I stated that once through the cover, he could thread a screw into the actual plug and pull it out that way. You're the one who taught me that :thumbup:


The CO screw is located under a hole that's immediately in front of the FD on the housing of the mixture unit. The hole is capped by an anti-tamper plug installed by the factory, so if yours has never been drilled out before, then you'll need to do this to access the screw - just be careful not to go too deep with your drill bit and damage the fulcrum/screw. Once you drill through the anti-tamper cover, you should be able to thread a screw into the plug and pull it out that way.


PS there should be no reason to adjust the CO due to simply changing the injectors, unless it was adjusted in an attempt to compensate for bad injectors, which it won't. The only reasons to adjust it:

--New Fuel Distributor installed
--new warmup regulator installed
--Adjusted it to make up for some other guy who adjusted it when he didn't need to (or adjusted it to unsuccessfully compensate for other bad parts)

I stand corrected :smile:

Given his situation though, it sounded like someone in the past had adjusted the CO, for whatever reason, thus the recommendation to re-adjust the CO to spec in the first place.

[NightFlyer]

PARTIAL CONCLUSION: Yeah I wasn't big on drilling anything. I got the car started after a lot of coughing and sputtering. I DID have to adjust the CO. In fact I couldn't start it until I did. The advice I got to counter-turn the CO was incorrect. One quarter turn clock got it sputter-idling long enough for me to exit the car, shove the 3mm alan wrench in the CO hole and adjust it till the car actually started idling fairly smoothly. From there it was all about the idle adjustment in tandem with the CO adjustment. HOWEVER, my car runs like crap and I just don't know enough about how to adjust these three screws all at the same time. I got it idling at 1100 with some difficulty. When it's warm (or cold really) it will start up and run, just not well. I have some hesitation, well A LOT when on the road. I got it better than it was for sure, but it's still running like crap. I'm going to give Merry Motors in MA a call. This has gone beyond my expertise which were limited to begin with. Also apparently new injectors have some sort of preservative that has to be worked out by fuel flow so the sputter thing is normal to an extent, but there was a posting in this thread that talked about my CO being adjusted for the previous injectors: CORRECT. I know this now. :wrenchin::tantrum:

Idle speed is non-adjustable. Idle speed is managed by the Bosch CIS (constant idle speed) system, which is controlled by an ECU. However you're adjusting idle speed is in error. Not sure exactly what "three screws" you're referring to having adjusted, but if they're the brass ones on the air intake near the throttle body, those should be fully closed, as they otherwise represent an unmetered air/vacuum leak. They have little o-rings on them, thus they only need to be gently snugged down, and not forcefully tightened down (forcing them in any way can also have the effect of snapping the heads off them).

Also, when you adjusted the CO screw, did you baseline it off an injector at all, or just start turning the screw? The suggestion to just start turning the screw was made under the premise that you'd be fine tuning it off the lambda system via the use of a dwell or duty cycle meter. Otherwise, the suggestion was to baseline the CO adjustment by visually watching how an injector was reacting to the adjustment.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Adjusting the mixture to get the best idle will make the car run poorly on the road. You do this with a carburetor but not with K-jet. You have to get the dwell or duty cycle meter to get the lambda system centered in it's range.

Idle speed is fixed at 775 RPM if your letting the constant idle speed system do it's job. Yes you can bump the "curb" idle screw in until the idle system has lost it's range of control and that will increase your idle RPM. But it will change with engine temp, loads (AC, headlights, etc), altitude, etc.

[Totally 80s]

A few posts back you mentioned "drilling out" the CO adjustment plug. There is more to this than you might think. The "plug" is a small slug of aluminum with a very hard steel disc at the bottom. If you try and drill it out one of two things will happen:

--the bit will hit the steel and wander around, hogging out the hole so big that the plug wont' fit (big air leak)
--you will force the bit through the disc and will then damage the allen threads on the adjuster so your tool won't fit.

Better to drill the hole very small, STOP when it hits the disc, the thread a sheet metal screw in to the hole you drilled and use that as a puller to extract the plug. It will pull out with enough force.

PS there should be no reason to adjust the CO due to simply changing the injectors, unless it was adjusted in an attempt to compensate for bad injectors, which it won't. The only reasons to adjust it:

--New Fuel Distributor installed
--new warmup regulator installed
--Adjusted it to make up for some other guy who adjusted it when he didn't need to (or adjusted it to unsuccessfully compensate for other bad parts)

Don't forget
---moved from sea level to 5000 feet above sea level.

[dn010]

Aren't you supposed to use the brass screws to raise the idle to 950 to check for proper dwell as well as CO levels?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Aren't you supposed to use the brass screws to raise the idle to 950 to check for proper dwell as well as CO levels?

I guess that would work but just using the curb idle screw is easier.

[Ron]

Aren't you supposed to use the brass screws to raise the idle to 950 to check for proper dwell as well as CO levels?You might get away with using the one that goes to both banks (the system would probably compensate for the un-metered air). But if you use one of the other two, it could easily throw things off. There is a section in the manual(s) how to use them, but it later indicates they should remain shut always on a D (although A LOT of people compensate for unsolved, etc. problems and let it run in open loop -- I wouldn't ;-).

[Shark Pilot]

Final Conclusion:

Know what I did? I drove it to PJ Grady. Yeah. That was my solution. I appreciate everybody trying to help and I did get one good suggestion, used it, got the car running again (poorly) and drove it to PJ Grady because Rob has been working on them for 32 years and I've been working on mine for 6 months....PROBLEM SOLVED. I'll post an addendum when Rob tells me what I did to F up my car. I'm a SAAB guy, and I can fix the crap out of my Viggen and 9 other SAABs Ive had in the past, but maybe I'm just not smart enough to own this car :dunno::frown:

[Ron]

Naw!...You just have to get used to its quarks. SOS just done a little bit differently! I'm sure it will click if/when you talk to Rob about it.

[NightFlyer]

Final Conclusion:

Know what I did? I drove it to PJ Grady. Yeah. That was my solution. I appreciate everybody trying to help and I did get one good suggestion, used it, got the car running again (poorly) and drove it to PJ Grady because Rob has been working on them for 32 years and I've been working on mine for 6 months....PROBLEM SOLVED. I'll post an addendum when Rob tells me what I did to F up my car. I'm a SAAB guy, and I can fix the crap out of my Viggen and 9 other SAABs Ive had in the past, but maybe I'm just not smart enough to own this car :dunno::frown:

Of course you're smart enough - it's all just a matter of how willing you are to take the time to learn.

As a Saab guy, did you ever have a Sonnet III? Those are my favorite Saabs :smile:

[mluder]

Final Conclusion:

Know what I did? I drove it to PJ Grady. Yeah. That was my solution. I appreciate everybody trying to help and I did get one good suggestion, used it, got the car running again (poorly) and drove it to PJ Grady because Rob has been working on them for 32 years and I've been working on mine for 6 months....PROBLEM SOLVED. I'll post an addendum when Rob tells me what I did to F up my car. I'm a SAAB guy, and I can fix the crap out of my Viggen and 9 other SAABs Ive had in the past, but maybe I'm just not smart enough to own this car :dunno::frown:

Not to pat myself on the back but you actually got two good suggestions... One got your car running and the other got you to getting it fixed for good hopefully...



I would caution against having a mechanic unfamiliar with DeLoreans look at this. They tend to do more harm than good. Find other local owners through a club affiliation or this board. They either know the cars and how to work on them and can help or they know a mechanic who works on their car and knows the ins and outs.


OK... Shameless self promotion. That being said, I'm glad you are getting to a resolution. So many cars get abandoned when the going gets tough. In time you'll learn this one like you learned the Saab. They really are fun and easy to work on.

Cheers
Steven

[Totally 80s]

Speaking of turning the CO screw on the fuel distributor... Since I have only turned mine about a quarter of an inch either way I was curious how much can the allen wrench turn? For example if you turned it counter clockwise (leaned out) how long can you turn it? Can you actually turn it all the way out? And clockwise how many more turns until it bottoms out?

[Shark Pilot]

Of course you're smart enough - it's all just a matter of how willing you are to take the time to learn.

As a Saab guy, did you ever have a Sonnet III? Those are my favorite Saabs :smile:

Never had a Sonnet III (those were my favorite Sonnets) for the same reason I never bought a 1983 Lotus Esprit Turbo: I simply don't fit. At 6'5" I barely fit in my DMC, but John Z was 6'4" and thankfully made the small car big enough for an above average tall guy. Always wanted a Sonnet, but every time I go to a SAAB convention my height issue is validated.

I'm ok with losing this battle. I did A LOT of work on the car myself, it's just not a plug and play like a lot of modern cars and the tuning issue is not in my knowledge set YET. I have a wife and baby that need me, but I want to keep the car too and not be embarrassed to drive it when I step on the gas. Rob will un-f@#k it for me as he had 11 DMCs in his shop yesterday. I think he has a better clue than I...:yoda::worship:

[Jonathan]

but maybe I'm just not smart enough to own this car :dunno::frown:

From what you've mentioned up to this point, I'd say you're definitely smart enough to own or work on this car.

Bringing your level of patience up to that of your intelligence will be what will make it work for you.

[jawn101]

Speaking of turning the CO screw on the fuel distributor... Since I have only turned mine about a quarter of an inch either way I was curious how much can the allen wrench turn? For example if you turned it counter clockwise (leaned out) how long can you turn it? Can you actually turn it all the way out? And clockwise how many more turns until it bottoms out?

The screw is very long. About 1.25", threaded all the way. A quarter turn is a massive adjustment, so you can imagine how bad you can make things by adjusting blind.

[Totally 80s]

The screw is very long. About 1.25", threaded all the way. A quarter turn is a massive adjustment, so you can imagine how bad you can make things by adjusting blind.

I don't see how you could mess things up too badly. If you had it out of adjustment simply lean it out until it dies than turn it slightly clockwise and you will be 90 percent of the way there.

[Shark Pilot]

I don't see how you could mess things up too badly. If you had it out of adjustment simply lean it out until it dies than turn it slightly clockwise and you will be 90 percent of the way there.

That is EXACTLY how I got the car running again. It needs other TLC and a once over from a DMC tech like Rob so that's why it's there. Plus I'm painting my entire house MYSELF over the next 3 days. The D has to take a rest from me. Otherwise I'd take more time to tune it. :wrenchin: